The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Nightshade711]

- Undermine/Kezan
- Plunder Isle
- Tel’Abim
- Hiji
- Ogrezonia

All established South Seas locations in lore, but sure go off. It’s not as if the Broken Isles were literally just the Broken Shore prior to Legion - right?

True, and also before DF the Dragon Isles were only an art piece of a giant old god temple.
Blizzard can/will just add whatever they want to a south seas expansion.

[Baraden]

- Undermine/Kezan
- Plunder Isle
- Tel’Abim
- Hiji
- Ogrezonia

All established South Seas locations in lore, but sure go off. It’s not as if the Broken Isles were literally just the Broken Shore prior to Legion - right?

- Kezan is in the game
- Plunder Isle was cut from BFA
- Undermine belongs to the subterranean theme alonside the nerubian empire etc, not the south seas theme

So, let's look at what you can actually use

- Tel'Abim, a small island with absolutely no lore besides bananas
- Ogrezonia, a quote "tiny island" that has literally only been mentioned once in the game via one single quest, and the whole quest is a gag reference to futurama
- Hiji, literally no lore, and many argue it's just the native name of Plunder Isle

So if you wanna base a whole expansion off that - go right ahead

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True, and also before DF the Dragon Isles were only an art piece of a giant old god temple.
Blizzard can/will just add whatever they want to a south seas expansion.

Can =/= Should

One of the biggest problem with dragonflight lore is it's hard to care about something that was a complete asspull, that's why people hate Shadowlands and love Wrath

[Teriz]

“It boggles the mind that posters here don’t seem to understand that WoD was a Yrel/Light/Orc expansion. They’re not going to do that again.”

Weird how there’s so much pointing directly to Azshara & something major with the sea.
It’s more boggling to me how posters like yourself could be so against it since given how you like to take every little thing as an expansion hint. (Throwback to dragonflight, Undermine, and tinkers because of the mechanical dragon mount.)

I simply don’t see how a Naga/Azshara is possible when Blizzard could have pulled that exact same expansion in 8.0, but they didn’t. Instead, they stuffed the Deep Below/South Seas concept with other themes because they CLEARLY didn’t want to go all in on a deep sea expansion with just Azshara and N’Zoth.

Nothings changed since that point in time.

[Mecheon]

It boggles the mind that posters here don’t seem to understand that BFA was the south seas/Azshara/N’Zoth expansion. They’re not going to do it again.

Because a South Sea expansion would deal with Tel Abim and the entirity of Kezan, which are notably absent. Also because, Kul Tiras isn't in the South Sea area. Like, at all.

And finally, because the datamined dragonriding trophy for the BFA zones is very specifically called the Great Seas. Blizzard don't even internally consider it anything close to the South Seas. That's why

[huth]

It boggles the mind that posters here don’t seem to understand that BFA was the south seas/Azshara/N’Zoth expansion. They’re not going to do it again.

They literally ended Azshara's story in BfA in a way that basically guarantees she'll show up again. So yes, they absolutely will, and were already making preparations for it.

[Baraden]

I, and Huth have literally already done all of that in previous pages. It’s in fact, yourself who refuses to address our points in response and just acts like an immature child with no argument by saying we’re wrong. Sticking your fingers in your ears and going “lalala I can’t hear you” and continuing to double down and lie like an ignoramus and being completely disingenuous won’t make you correct.

I mean if my above post is akin to me saying "“lalala I can’t hear you”" to your eyes, you may need glasses

[Nightshade711]

I simply don’t see how a Naga/Azshara is possible when Blizzard could have pulled that exact same expansion in 8.0, but they didn’t. Instead, they stuffed the Deep Below/South Seas concept with other themes because they CLEARLY didn’t want to go all in on a deep sea expansion with just Azshara and N’Zoth.

Nothings changed since that point in time.

Then that’s a failure of your own imagination.
It’s clear w/ lore in the forbidden reach (and hell, even her ‘ending’ in BfA) that Azshara is going to return, and all the seafaring-based hints just help solidify it.

[Baraden]

Because a South Sea expansion would deal with Tel Abim and the entirity of Kezan, which are notably absent. Also because, Kul Tiras isn't in the South Sea area. Like, at all.

And finally, because the datamined dragonriding trophy for the BFA zones is very specifically called the Great Seas. Blizzard don't even internally consider it anything close to the South Seas. That's why

You realise the Great Sea is the term for the entire ocean between northrend, pandaria, EK and Kalimdor right - the south seas are inside of that

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They literally ended Azshara's story in BfA in a way that basically guarantees she'll show up again. So yes, they absolutely will, and were already making preparations for it.

And what proof do you have it would be in a southern seas expansion? Are they going to make us raid the Eternal Palace to find her again?

- - - Updated - - -

Then that’s a failure of your own imagination.
It’s clear w/ lore in the forbidden reach (and hell, even her ‘ending’ in BfA) that Azshara is going to return, and all the seafaring-based hints just help solidify it.

IF she returns (which all the hinting in the world means nothing until it actually happens); there's nothing to say it would have to be a southern seas style expansion, moreover, would her appearing in ANY future expansion be proof enough to consider it a south seas expansion?

[Santandame]

- Kezan is in the game
- Plunder Isle was cut from BFA
- Undermine belongs to the subterranean theme alonside the nerubian empire etc, not the south seas theme

So, let's look at what you can actually use

- Tel'Abim, a small island with absolutely no lore besides bananas
- Ogrezonia, a quote "tiny island" that has literally only been mentioned once in the game via one single quest, and the whole quest is a gag reference to futurama
- Hiji, literally no lore, and many argue it's just the native name of Plunder Isle

So if you wanna base a whole expansion off that - go right ahead

- We’ve only seen one part of Kezan. Outside of the Goblin starting experience we can’t return to that one small part.
- Source on that? Even if it was cut, well stone me - I wonder why a popular staple of all South Seas concepts was cut from THE South Seas expansion. Couldn’t possibly be because it was being reserved for an actual South Seas expansion could it? Definitely not.
- Sorry, what? If Kezan were to feature in a South Seas expansion then they’re not just going to completely omit Undermine because it “belongs to the subterranean theme.”
- Tel’Abim has been seeded with lore as recent as Dragonflight. I assume you don’t play the game? Do you know where else had little to no lore before they were implemented as zones? I won’t burst your bubble for you.
- I take it you don’t know how Pandaria came to be, do you?
- Who are the many that argue it? Fans? Forum posters? So it’s just conjecture with no evidence whatsoever. Okay, well I argue that Farahlon is the ancient name for Stormshield.

Regardless of whether it has no lore or not, it’s still established in game. There’s evidence for it existing. Therefore, it is not an asspull. It’s less of an asspull than Val’sharah, Highmountain, Stormwind and Azsuna.

[Teriz]

Because a South Sea expansion would deal with Tel Abim and the entirity of Kezan, which are notably absent. Also because, Kul Tiras isn't in the South Sea area. Like, at all.

That wouldn’t be a south seas expansion though, that would be an undermine expansion. No different than MoP being a Pandarian expansion despite Pandaria and it’s surrounding islands being in the south seas.

And finally, because the datamined dragonriding trophy for the BFA zones is very specifically called the Great Seas. Blizzard don't even internally consider it anything close to the South Seas. That's why

Well there it is. No need to do South Seas if we’ve already done the Great Seas.

[Baraden]

Because a South Sea expansion would deal with Tel Abim and the entirity of Kezan, which are notably absent. Also because, Kul Tiras isn't in the South Sea area. Like, at all.

And finally, because the datamined dragonriding trophy for the BFA zones is very specifically called the Great Seas. Blizzard don't even internally consider it anything close to the South Seas. That's why

You can go to Kezen right now; simply create a goblin or run the motherlode dungeon, let's not forget most of the island was destroyed by the volcano eruption

[Santandame]

Can =/= Should

One of the biggest problem with dragonflight lore is it's hard to care about something that was a complete asspull, that's why people hate Shadowlands and love Wrath

That entire argument falls apart when you realise that the landmass from arguably the best expansion (Legion) was a complete asspull with no established lore apart from Suramar.

You’re not very good at this, are you?

[Teriz]

They literally ended Azshara's story in BfA in a way that basically guarantees she'll show up again. So yes, they absolutely will, and were already making preparations for it.

Uh huh, and why didn’t they do that in BFA? Azshara was so second string in that expansion that her patch came alongside Mechagon.

[Santandame]

You realise the Great Sea is the term for the entire ocean between northrend, pandaria, EK and Kalimdor right - the south seas are inside of that

Except it isn’t. You realise that the Great Sea is literally just the sea to the west of the Eastern Kingdoms, right? And that the Forbidding, Veiled, North and South Seas are completely separate?

[huth]

Uh huh, and why didn’t they do that in BFA? Azshara was so second string in that expansion that her patch came alongside Mechagon.

When? That scene happened in the final raid.

[Baraden]

- We’ve only seen one part of Kezan. Outside of the Goblin starting experience we can’t return to that one small part.
- Source on that? Even if it was cut, well stone me - I wonder why a popular staple of all South Seas concepts was cut from THE South Seas expansion. Couldn’t possibly be because it was being reserved for an actual South Seas expansion could it? Definitely not.
- Sorry, what? If Kezan were to feature in a South Seas expansion then they’re not just going to completely omit Undermine because it “belongs to the subterranean theme.”
- Tel’Abim has been seeded with lore as recent as Dragonflight. I assume you don’t play the game? Do you know where else had little to no lore before they were implemented as zones? I won’t burst your bubble for you.
- I take it you don’t know how Pandaria came to be, do you?
- Who are the many that argue it? Fans? Forum posters? So it’s just conjecture with no evidence whatsoever. Okay, well I argue that Farahlon is the ancient name for Stormshield.

Regardless of whether it has no lore or not, it’s still established in game. There’s evidence for it existing. Therefore, it is not an asspull. It’s less of an asspull than Val’sharah, Highmountain, Stormwind and Azsuna.

- Play the starting zone again, the island was mostly destoyed, other than the motherlode (hey, BFA content again whaddya know) - we don't know if it's even possible to go there
- https://www.wowhead.com/news/battle-...d-25902-281085
- They didn't feature Undermine in Cataclysm which added Kezan, did they?
- Hiji and Plunder Isle look very similar and various maps have placed them interchanbably - and since the most recent chronicles map doesn't include either, they might not even be canon anymore

[Mecheon]

You realise the Great Sea is the term for the entire ocean between northrend, pandaria, EK and Kalimdor right - the south seas are inside of that

I have this little life hack about real life oceans: They're all the one thing and the designations are arbitery. The Gulf of Alaska and the Coral Sea are both part of the Pacific Ocean IRL, but I'd hardly call both of them served if you only visited one

EDIT:

- Play the starting zone again, the island was mostly destoyed, other than the motherlode (hey, BFA content again whaddya know) - we don't know if it's even possible to go there

Ah yes. Just like how the Broken Isles were this one little NElf ruin that Illidan raised from the ocean until it turned out they had a whole other set of islands right next door they just, didn't visit

Until we visit the smoldering crater, something could still be standing. Chances are just that one town got wiped out

[Baraden]

Except it isn’t. You realise that the Great Sea is literally just the sea to the west of the Eastern Kingdoms, right? And that the Forbidding, Veiled, North and South Seas are completely separate?

The Great Sea is the ocean between all four continents, the forbidding sea is east of EK, the Veiled Sea is west of kalimdor, the north sea is north of Northrend - the south seas, and all the islands you're insisting justify another south seas expansion, are still north of pandaria - and all current lore suggests pandaria is the southernmost landmass in azeroth; so the south sea is just the southern great sea, unless you're arguing that another southern hemisphere exists which literally no lore exists to prove that

You can literally look on the chronicles map and see the South Sea is within the seas between continents, making it a part of the great sea

[Teriz]

When? That scene happened in the final raid.

No, I’m saying why wouldn’t Blizzard do an Azshara/Nzoth expansion in 8.0 when they had the perfect set up for it? It makes no sense to cycle back and do a more sea focused version of BFA when you clearly didn’t want to do it in the first place.

[Baraden]

I have this little life hack about real life oceans: They're all the one thing and the designations are arbitery. The Gulf of Alaska and the Coral Sea are both part of the Pacific Ocean IRL, but I'd hardly call both of them served if you only visited one

EDIT:



Ah yes. Just like how the Broken Isles were this one little NElf ruin that Illidan raised from the ocean until it turned out they had a whole other set of islands right next door they just, didn't visit

Until we visit the smoldering crater, something could still be standing. Chances are just that one town got wiped out

Yes, Blizzard can create lore when they like

Doesn't mean you know what they will and won't create

So, the only way to have a sensible discussion is by going off what is actually available in-game and in the canon, not what you'd like to be true

As it stands the remaining southern landmasses have almost no lore and some of them arguably aren't even canon anymore, until Blizzard develops them otherwise or announce another southern seas expansion, all the evidence points to BFA being what we got as a south seas expansion