The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Teriz]

Weird take when you're fresh off having to argue that players shouldn't be concerned about an Undermine expansion because it's mostly not going to look like a goblin-based area.

Because Goblins are cosmopolitan creatures with a rather wide variety of personality traits and styles, and we've really only seen a small part of their culture. The Trade Coalition that dominates Undermine is a global trading empire ruled by a variety of trade princes who no doubt also have a wide variety of personality traits and styles. You toss in the notion of a location that is a massive cosmopolitan trading port/city and it doesn't take much to recognize how much you can do with the concept.

On the other hand we have the Void, which has always been shown in a very specific way. I'm sure Blizzard could expand the concept, but the thematic remains a world conquered or overwhelmed by void influence. There's only so many ways that theme can go.

The difference here is that I'm using actual lore and examples while the other side is pretty much saying "Trust me bro!"

[Santandame]

The only one being dishonest here is you.

You're comparing a world dominated by the void to something like Northrend. If you look at real-life arctic regions, you'd realize rather quickly that they aren't entirely frozen tundras. There are arctic and sub arctic forests, shorelines, and other concepts that can be utilized for a polar-based expansion.

While I found Shadowlands to be nauseating, even within that concept you can come up with a variety of concepts to go along with death and the afterlife. Heaven with angels and hell with demons for example, and various other religious concepts that can be woven into the idea of a realm of the dead. Despite that, Blizzard largely dropped the ball with that expansion because it's simply too open-ended to effectively work as an expansion theme.

Argus wasn't an expansion, it was a patch. However even in that patch the variety wasn't good, but that was largely not a problem because we were coming from the Broken Isles. Imagine an ENTIRE expansion like Argus and get back to me.

When we have to argue that players shouldn't be concerned about a void-based world because its mostly not going to look like a void-based world, we already have a serious problem.

You literally said a few pages ago that Shadowlands had the exact same aesthetic throughout and you were completely debunked by screenshots that were posted.

You still haven’t addressed the thematics going through the Argus zones. Again, have you ever been to Mac’aree? I’m also of the belief that again, with some creativity and the desire from Blizzard that Argus quite easily could have carried an expansion with enough diversity between the zones.

If Argus as PATCH content (your argument) was more than just a fel green wasteland, then why on earth do you expect an entire Void aligned continent to be purple and blue only?

If we get K’Aresh then clearly the eco domes are going to play a massive part on the landmass. Of course there’s going to be a void corrupted zone but it’s also incredibly likely we’d get Arabian inspired zones because of the Ethereal thematics as well as lush jungle zones because of the eco domes we’ve already seen. And that’s the thing with creativity and imagination Teriz, the eco domes are an endless possibility for different climates found in them because of both fantasy and sci fi.

The exact same if we get Nathreza as a landmass. There would undoubtedly be a void aligned zone because of the old lore surrounding Dreadlords. Yet we would also get an arcane city inspired zone because that’s a setting Nathreza is known for. Just like we’d also very likely get a zone that fits the Venthyr aesthetic.

Just because a world would have ties to the Void and feature it, doesn’t mean that the entire planet would be void corrupted with no other aesthetic. And once again I refer to Outland and Argus which were both fel corrupted lands yet had plenty of variety throughout. The exact same with Shadowlands which wasn’t just a grey copy of Azeroth or the Maw throughout.

You’re a hypocrite. You’re more than happy to advocate that Undermine wouldn’t just be one Goblin themed aesthetic throughout but anything that has a Void theme can only ever be completely Void corrupted throughout and nothing else.

- - - Updated - - -

The difference here is that I'm using actual lore and examples while the other side is pretty much saying "Trust me bro!"

You aren’t using lore to reinforce your examples. You’re using your own theories and headcanon for your examples, essentially your own version of “trust me bro!” whilst discounting actual lore when arguing with others.

What current aesthetics are there in game for Goblins that are different than what we currently have? All of their settlements look exactly the same.

[username993720]

U literally just proved my point. Outland is Draenor and without them u dont have the orcs & Again Demons are Aliens in Warcraft. There is no getting away from that element. People were shocked at the space/dimension ships in legion and yet they have been a thing since TBC. Warcraft cant exist without those elements if it did literally none of the playable races would exist or the majority of the plot.

Demons used to use portals. Now they use spaceships. A downgrade in demon fantasy.

[Yus atath]

11.0 will be about the elemental lords mark my words

[Santandame]

11.0 will be about the elemental lords mark my words

Just can’t see it as we’re in an elemental expansion now with Dragonflight.

What I think we’ll get:

Avaloren
or
Other side of Azeroth
or
Whatever Scaleface is claiming so a void world

What I want:

World Revamp
or
South Seas

What I wouldn’t mind:

Underground
Ancient Kalimdor

[micwini]

Scaleface, it's time to show your ass in here. Give us some juice!

[Teriz]

You literally said a few pages ago that Shadowlands had the exact same aesthetic throughout and you were completely debunked by screenshots that were posted.

Wrong. I said the majority of the expansion had that theme, and it did.

You still haven’t addressed the thematics going through the Argus zones. Again, have you ever been to Mac’aree? I’m also of the belief that again, with some creativity and the desire from Blizzard that Argus quite easily could have carried an expansion with enough diversity between the zones.

If Argus as PATCH content (your argument) was more than just a fel green wasteland, then why on earth do you expect an entire Void aligned continent to be purple and blue only?

You're talking about this right?



That doesn't mean a whole lot when the other two zones (aka the majority or Argus) look like the fel green wasteland that we know and love. Now expand this to an expansion, where the MAJORITY of the zones we're playing in are going to look like variations of a fel-green wasteland. The thing you're not getting is that in such an expansion the majority of zones will have to look that way because the thematic demands it. You can't have a legion conquered world where the majority of it doesn't look like the legion conquered it, that doesn't make sense. The same applies to a world conquered by the void.

If we get K’Aresh then clearly the eco domes are going to play a massive part on the landmass. Of course there’s going to be a void corrupted zone but it’s also incredibly likely we’d get Arabian inspired zones because of the Ethereal thematics as well as lush jungle zones because of the eco domes we’ve already seen. And that’s the thing with creativity and imagination and imagination Teriz, the eco domes are an endless possibility for different climates found in them because of both fantasy and sci fi.

The exact same if we get Nathreza as a landmass. There would undoubtedly be a void aligned zone because of the old lore surrounding Dreadlords. Yet we would also get an arcane city inspired zone because that’s a setting Nathreza is known for. Just like we’d also very likely get a zone that fits the Venthyr aesthetic.

See above. You don't get a void conquered world where the majority of the world isn't conquered by the void. If you don't want a void-conquered world, then don't advocate for a void world.

Just because a world would have ties to the Void and feature it, doesn’t mean that the entire planet would be void corrupted with no other aesthetic. And once again I refer to Outland and Argus which were both fel corrupted lands yet had plenty of variety throughout. The exact same with Shadowlands which wasn’t just a grey copy of Azeroth or the Maw throughout.

Again, not ties to the void CONQUERED by the void. There's a difference. Argus was mostly a fel-green hellscape, and Outlands was a shattered world. Chances are we're getting something more akin to Argus than Outland. Further, unless something's changed, the lore states that the Ethereals fled K'aresh because the void lords completely conquered it. You're telling me a place like K'aresh is going to have a variety of ecosystems when the Ethereals themselves fled the planet?

You’re a hypocrite. You’re more than happy to advocate that Undermine wouldn’t just be one Goblin themed aesthetic throughout but anything that has a Void theme can only ever be completely Void corrupted throughout and nothing else.

Yeah, because Goblins aren't a singular cosmic force. They're a variety of crazy, greedy creatures who like to twist the world to fit their own personal whims. It's like comparing an alien invasion to 7 millionaires who get 7 empty plots of land to build the mansion of their dreams. I can assure you those 7 mansions are going to showcase far more variety than Earth after the aliens take over.

[Santandame]

Wrong. I said the majority of the expansion had that theme, and it did.



You're talking about this right?



That doesn't mean a whole lot when the other two zones (aka the majority or Argus) look like the fel green wasteland that we know and love. Now expand this to an expansion, where the MAJORITY of the zones we're playing in are going to look like variations of a fel-green wasteland. The thing you're not getting is that in such an expansion the majority of zones will have to look that way because the thematic demands it. You can't have a legion conquered world where the majority of it doesn't look like the legion conquered it, that doesn't make sense. The same applies to a world conquered by the void.



See above. You don't get a void conquered world where the majority of the world isn't conquered by the void. If you don't want a void-conquered world, then don't advocate for a void world.



Again, not ties to the void CONQUERED by the void. There's a difference. Argus was mostly a fel-green hellscape, and Outlands was a shattered world. Unless something's changed, the lore states that the Ethereals fled K'aresh because the void lords completely conquered it. You're telling me a place like K'aresh is going to have a variety of ecosystems when the Ethereals themselves fled the planet?



Yeah, because Goblins aren't a singular cosmic force. They're a variety of crazy, greedy creatures who like to twist the world to fit their own personal whims. It's like comparing an alien invasion to 7 millionaires who get 7 empty plots of land to build the mansion of their dreams. I can assure you those 7 mansions are going to showcase far more variety than Earth after the aliens take over.

Everything you’ve posted here is wrong and a contradiction upon a contradiction upon a contradiction and it doesn’t warrant anything more as a response than that because every sense of reason and logic and evidence falls on nothing but deaf ears with you and is just met with incorrect rubbish, just as you do with everyone else regarding pretty much everything.

[Hitei]

Because Goblins are cosmopolitan creatures with a rather wide variety of personality traits and styles.

-Money focused
-Engineering focused

Woah, what a variety.

On the other hand we have the Void, which has always been shown in a very specific way.

I've gotta say, claiming that goblins, the race that has a half a dozen different factions all doing the same generic money and engineering thing at varying levels of morality and amiability, offer a wide variety and lots of concept potential in the same post where you claim the Void--something we know only the roughest of things about, whose organizational nuances, scale and contents we don't even remotely understand--is something very specific and limited, is a very you thing to do.

You'd think basic observation that every notable goblin character in the game, from Revilgaz to Gazlowe, Gallywix and Blackfuse to Grizzek is either a profit-seeking tyvoon or an engineer, or both a businessperson and an engineer, would give you the impression that there's not much variety or possibility going on there... but I can see how, being Teriz, you think that somehow those goblin characters show more variation in personality traits and style than, for example: Azshara, Xal'atath, Locus Walker, Alleria, N'zoth, and Ner'zhul.

I especially liked the part where you ignored that Ethereals, the race most involved in the Void, do everything goblins do but better and with greater variation, being both better engineers with greater variety and familiarity in technology, and traders so cosmopolitan they deal across countless worlds and multiple dimensions, rendering Undermine's "global trading empire" hilariously backwater and insignificant.

I only wish that the AI pictures had included some random gnome building, so that you'd be here stalwartly insisting that this looked like the best expansion ever.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

It's always the same teriz person that eventually turns this thread from speculation thread to 20 pages argue about his own theories which always shows one thing - a narcisstic a-hole that thinks his theories are the only one that only matter.

i guess ignore button will do wonders here to cleaning up the thread.

Anything can happen with next expansion, some will like the theme, some not - it's still just a game at the end of the day.

[Santandame]

Are you really arguing about how a hypothetical Void expansion could be approached?
jesus christ

to finish :
you are both partly right

The Void is shown for now only with little diversity BUT if an expansion based on the Void were to be made, it would be diversified since that is Blizzard's modus operandi

go and calm down the children, there's no need to make 10 pages of arguments

Yeah apologies for the last few pages. Just gets very frustrating when someone repeatedly disregards actual evidence though and refuses to hear anyone else’s argument, selectively quoting people and just being overall hypocritical.

But yeah, there’s plenty of avenues to go down for variety with a void themed expansion.

For all the faults Blizzard have at times, I trust them greatly to create a diverse landmass based on a specific theme. Shadowlands was panned but they successfully pulled off a death themed expansion with plenty of diversity in the land we visited that wasn’t just grey, black and maw themed.

[Daniri]

U literally just proved my point. Outland is Draenor and without them u dont have the orcs & Again Demons are Aliens in Warcraft. There is no getting away from that element. People were shocked at the space/dimension ships in legion and yet they have been a thing since TBC. Warcraft cant exist without those elements if it did literally none of the playable races would exist or the majority of the plot.

Warcraft existed for years without those elements. Even if you wanted to obnoxiously call orcs a sci-fi element/"aliens" because they came from another planet(through a magic portal), you can't say the same about demons, because demons come from the Twisting Nether, not the Great Dark beyond. Also, it's not like TBC didn't receive criticism for that too. It's one of the reasons people used to mark TBC as the start of the decline of WC's lore. Legion then turned it up to 11, which upset some people who were fine with the balance TBC struck. That balance being the thing that maintains the sense of a setting's tone and style.

For some reason many western people can't seem to handle SciFi and Fantasy being mixed, despite both just being minor variations of the same larger genre that can't even cleanly be seperated.

Do Iranians or Indonesians mix them better or something?

[Santandame]

Do Iranians or Indonesians mix them better or something?

Not sure if sarcasm but if you look at a lot of East Asian inspired fantasy books, Sci Fi elements are usually pretty prominent throughout.

There’s also a genre that mixes the two when it’s East Asian inspired known as Silkpunk.

[Teriz]

-Money focused
-Engineering focused

Woah, what a variety.

And of course the polluted potential wasteland that was Kezan, and the current Bildgewater Harbor.

Greed and Engineering.... Looks like quite the variety to me.

You'd think basic observation that every notable goblin character in the game, from Revilgaz to Gazlowe, Gallywix and Blackfuse to Grizzek is either a profit-seeking tyvoon or an engineer, or both a businessperson and an engineer, would give you the impression that there's not much variety or possibility going on there... but I can see how, being Teriz, you think that somehow those goblin characters show more variation in personality traits and style than, for example: Azshara, Xal'atath, Locus Walker, Alleria, N'zoth, and Ner'zhul.

I especially liked the part where you ignored that Ethereals, the race most involved in the Void, do everything goblins do but better and with more greater variation, being both better engineers with greater variety and familiarity in technology, and traders so cosmopolitan they deal across countless worlds and multiple dimensions, rendering Undermine's "global trading empire" hilariously backwater and insignificant.

I only wish that the AI pictures had included some random gnome building, so that you'd be here stalwartly insisting that this looked like the best expansion ever.

Well you're comparing individuals to landmasses and zones. My argument is entirely based around what makes a more varied expansion; A land mass on Azeroth that is goblin-controlled, or a world conquered by Void to the point that its inhabitants got their bodies blown away and are scattered throughout the universe. Given Blizzard's track record, I'm going with the former. It'd be like Pandaria vs Shadowlands, and personally, I'd rather quest in Pandaria.

[Marlamin]

I'm going to continue and remain boring and not invest hope in any leak that doesn't have at least one foot in reality (and I don't mean Teriz reality, actual reality), this leak season is arguably already of the lowest quality thanks to the like of ChatGPT and the constant drivel/veiled shitslinging in this thread by a select few being worse than the editions before as well.

Seems like his belief is that they would instead put all the "Revamp pls" folk on towards a Classic product that fits in that style instead.

That'd definitely be an interesting take on "Classic+", it wouldn't explain why some of the updated assets have been showing up in mainline WoW (which is a different content branch) but it might explain what 1.15 is and why it's been on encrypted patch endpoints for longer than any retail expansion has before going into Beta (let alone it not being announced yet).

If there's anything good about this run-up to BlizzCon it's how little is publicly known about the stuff Blizz is working on.

[Kiria]

And of course the polluted potential wasteland that was Kezan, and the current Bildgewater Harbor.

Greed and Engineering.... Looks like quite the variety to me.



Well you're comparing individuals to landmasses and zones. My argument is entirely based around what makes a more varied expansion; A land mass on Azeroth that is goblin-controlled, or a world conquered by Void to the point that its inhabitants got their bodies blown away and are scattered throughout the universe. Given Blizzard's track record, I'm going with the former. It'd be like Pandaria vs Shadowlands, and personally, I'd rather quest in Pandaria.

I did the Goblin starting zone once and hated it, will never roll a goblin again, also I steer Clear of all the Gnome/Goblin infested areas as much as possible, an expansion about them and their culture would be seriously offputting and im pretty sure im not the only one who feels this way.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

I'm going to continue and remain boring and not invest hope in any leak that doesn't have at least one foot in reality (and I don't mean Teriz reality, actual reality), this leak season is arguably already of the lowest quality thanks to the like of ChatGPT and the constant drivel/veiled shitslinging in this thread by a select few being worse than the editions before as well.



That'd definitely be an interesting take on "Classic+", it wouldn't explain why some of the updated assets have been showing up in mainline WoW (which is a different content branch) but it might explain what 1.15 is and why it's been on encrypted patch endpoints for longer than any retail expansion has before going into Beta (let alone it not being announced yet).

If there's anything good about this run-up to BlizzCon it's how little is publicly known about the stuff Blizz is working on.

I think if classic+ really happens it might not only have a revamp of some sort with updated assets but also toggleable modern character models, so it would be classic wise gameplay but with modern day graphics, models as toggleable option.

[Scaleface]

Scaleface, it's time to show your ass in here. Give us some juice!

As I wrote to few ppl before in private - all I have this time is just a pack of screens, nothing more (and based on the screens themselves there is no point in guessing like with DF where I had much more information).
It is too risky to upload them in higher quality, as they may be sent intentionally (they may be, for example, generated by AI) to target people who post information during the NDA. Also, as I also mentioned - don't take it too seriously but: most of them have locations with purple skies and models that look very much like dreadlords.
That's why this time I'm refraining from posting anything, even in the same form as in DF - although it was very funny when you discovered the next clues one by one I simply don't have much information (only a handful of screenshots), and I don't want to cause confusion.

Personally, without looking at any screenshots, I bet that the expansion may be focused on voids, because many things in the game would indicate this - but this is just my personal opinion. Before shadowlands, there were 4 things planned: shadowlands, dragons (dragonflight), light vs void (???) but also undergrounds.
In the case of the underground, it may also be different - because, as you yourself have noticed, there was mention of undermined somewhere, so Towellie's recent posts may point towards this - but whether it will be added to the game as an add-on or as a patch - it's hard to say.

I participate in speculations by reading, day after day

[Santandame]

I'm going to continue and remain boring and not invest hope in any leak that doesn't have at least one foot in reality (and I don't mean Teriz reality, actual reality), this leak season is arguably already of the lowest quality thanks to the like of ChatGPT and the constant drivel/veiled shitslinging in this thread by a select few being worse than the editions before as well.



That'd definitely be an interesting take on "Classic+", it wouldn't explain why some of the updated assets have been showing up in mainline WoW (which is a different content branch) but it might explain what 1.15 is and why it's been on encrypted patch endpoints for longer than any retail expansion has before going into Beta (let alone it not being announced yet).

If there's anything good about this run-up to BlizzCon it's how little is publicly known about the stuff Blizz is working on.

What is your personal hope for next expansion?

- - - Updated - - -

As I wrote to few ppl before in private - all I have this time is just a pack of screens, nothing more (and based on the screens themselves there is no point in guessing like with DF where I had much more information).
It is too risky to upload them in higher quality, as they may be sent intentionally (they may be, for example, generated by AI) to target people who post information during the NDA. Also, as I also mentioned - don't take it too seriously but: most of them have locations with purple skies and models that look very much like dreadlords.
That's why this time I'm refraining from posting anything, even in the same form as in DF - although it was very funny when you discovered the next clues one by one I simply don't have much information (only a handful of screenshots), and I don't want to cause confusion.

Personally, without looking at any screenshots, I bet that the expansion may be focused on voids, because many things in the game would indicate this - but this is just my personal opinion. Before shadowlands, there were 4 things planned: shadowlands, dragons (dragonflight), light vs void (???) but also undergrounds.
In the case of the underground, it may also be different - because, as you yourself have noticed, there was mention of undermined somewhere, so Towellie's recent posts may point towards this - but whether it will be added to the game as an add-on or as a patch - it's hard to say.

I participate in speculations by reading, day after day

Nathreza with Denathrius as our guy then if the stuff you’ve been sent is legit.

[Nightshade711]

If we get K’Aresh then clearly the eco domes are going to play a massive part on the landmass. Of course there’s going to be a void corrupted zone but it’s also incredibly likely we’d get Arabian inspired zones because of the Ethereal thematics as well as lush jungle zones because of the eco domes we’ve already seen. And that’s the thing with creativity and imagination Teriz, the eco domes are an endless possibility for different climates found in them because of both fantasy and sci fi.

Teriz just ignores the existence of eco domes for some reason because it would destroy his arguments against the upcoming void expansion.

What’s curious is why the eco dome hole thing was put in the files for 10.1.7. There’s also Rafaam that was datamined a while back but doesn’t seem to show up anywhere still.