The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Skildar]

I'm totally down with the idea that the "Curse of flesh" was nonsense/Old God lies.

I'm still confused to this day as to why the curse of the flesh was being removed by servant of Alakir in Uldum when the curse is supposed to be a tool of the Old gods and Alakir is on their side...

[Foolicious]

It's long been my assumption that the Titanforged creations were always meant to turn into living beings over time.

While Draenor's Breakers were affected by the "Spirit of Life" before turning into Gronn, Ogron, Ogres and Orcs (remember: Orcs are basically the Gnomes of Draenor) it makes little sense that the Old Gods could perform similar changes.
Since Life wasn't as rampant on Azeroth, the Titanforged may have been designed to become more "integrated" protectors of the planet and its Soul.

As this was somehow unknown to the Titanforged, this was easily claimed by Old God propaganda.
"We did this, and we can undo it - if you do what we say"

I don't think so. Or if it is the case it wasn't known to the titans that this would happen eventually. Free will comes from the curse of flesh and thats very much against the principles of the titans.

I'm still confused to this day as to why the curse of the flesh was being removed by servant of Alakir in Uldum when the curse is supposed to be a tool of the Old gods and Alakir is on their side...

The curse of flesh is still widely considered a curse even by the titan constructs like the uldum ones that lived for generations as fleshy beings. Al'akir offered to cure them in turn for their allyship and at some point easy access to the halls of reorigination. The Nefereset agreed to serve al'akir in turn for being cured and regain their stone bodies which they thought are superior. They also thought once they get their bodies back they are powerful enough to overthrow al'akir which they obviously weren't.
But at this lore is ages old and definetly a bit wonky.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

It's long been my assumption that the Titanforged creations were always meant to turn into living beings over time.

While Draenor's Breakers were affected by the "Spirit of Life" before turning into Gronn, Ogron, Ogres and Orcs (remember: Orcs are basically the Gnomes of Draenor) it makes little sense that the Old Gods could perform similar changes.
Since Life wasn't as rampant on Azeroth, the Titanforged may have been designed to become more "integrated" protectors of the planet and its Soul.

As this was somehow unknown to the Titanforged, this was easily claimed by Old God propaganda.
"We did this, and we can undo it - if you do what we say"

Like I said I prefer this curse of flesh nonsense be disposed of or just some big Old God Lie. I'm ok with that.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

I don't know, a skin tone that you won't see because mogs really interest you more than a new race/class? wtf.

Didn't they just add the ability to hide most armor pieces? If anything, this is the best possible time to expand customization, especially since comparatively little effort is needed for it compared to certain other changes. It's fairly little work for a good payoff and something enjoyable for just about everybody.

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It's long been my assumption that the Titanforged creations were always meant to turn into living beings over time.

I think it's been stated, at least in older lore, that the Titans usually did seed organic life, with Azeroth being the exception. However, I personally would hate it if the Curse of Flesh was retconned into a deliberate quality of Titan constructs, because it would effectively remove one of the few things left that gives Warcraft any spirit of its own or one of the few things that actually works decently with the new "teh cosmuc forshes r extreems" spiel.

[Revamp Man]

Didn't they just add the ability to hide most armor pieces? If anything, this is the best possible time to expand customization, especially since comparatively little effort is needed for it compared to certain other changes. It's fairly little work for a good payoff and something enjoyable for just about everybody.

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I think it's been stated, at least in older lore, that the Titans usually did seed organic life, with Azeroth being the exception. However, I personally would hate it if the Curse of Flesh was retconned into a deliberate quality of Titan constructs, because it would effectively remove one of the few things left that gives Warcraft any spirit of its own or one of the few things that actually works decently with the new "teh cosmuc forshes r extreems" spiel.

The curse of flesh will likely be changed to something like "the old god influence created flash and the watchers called it a curse because it wasn't a pure gift from the Titans" and "the old gods saw flesh as a gift because it created more possibilities for the beings on Azeroth and allowed them to spread their message"

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

The curse of flesh will likely be changed to something like "the old god influence created flash and the watchers called it a curse because it wasn't a pure gift from the Titans" and "the old gods saw flesh as a gift because it created more possibilities for the beings on Azeroth and allowed them to spread their message"

I think it's probably it. Like being "fleshy" isn't intrinsically bad, is just that it makes beings less controllable as constructs, vulnerable to outside forces -such as the Void-

Like yeah the Void did do it in order to advance its own plans, but they could also re-frame it as being at least partially about free will.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

I think it's probably it. Like being "fleshy" isn't intrinsically bad, is just that it makes beings less controllable as constructs, vulnerable to outside forces -such as the Void-

Like yeah the Void did do it in order to advance its own plans, but they could also re-frame it as being at least partially about free will.

I figure that it's best not to frame it strictly as a matter of free will being an objective of the Void per se, as that provides too familiar of an outlook to the Old Gods and the Void as a whole. I think a better way to frame it is that free will is contingent on the illimitable potential of the Void, with the former as a byproduct of or a means to achieve the latter, which is what the Void was trying to accomplish. It's not an exceptionally obvious distinction, but it's one that I think should be made.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I figure that it's best not to frame it strictly as a matter of free will being an objective of the Void per se, as that provides too familiar of an outlook to the Old Gods and the Void as a whole. I think a better way to frame it is that free will is contingent on the illimitable potential of the Void, with the former as a byproduct of or a means to achieve the latter, which is what the Void was trying to accomplish. It's not an exceptionally obvious distinction, but it's one that I think should be made.

Indeed. Not go the route of "Actually we're good and we did it for you" but as in their agenda requires free will from sentient beings so they can manipulate it. Contrasting that to "Order" and their tendency to hinder free will in their agenda of peace, which at its worst can lead to totalitarism.

I would like that at leas one major Void related character was actually just super into letting everyone do what they want, total entropy. Someone that didn't care about the cosmic game at all.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Indeed. Not go the route of "Actually we're good and we did it for you" but as in their agenda requires free will from sentient beings so they can manipulate it. Contrasting that to "Order" and their tendency to hinder free will in their agenda of peace, which at its worst can lead to totalitarism.

I would like that at leas one major Void related character was actually just super into letting everyone do what they want, total entropy. Someone that didn't care about the cosmic game at all.

Re: entropy, that actually draws to mind a good comparison. A state of absolute stasis and a state of absolute randomness will both bring about the same end result—that is to say, a complete lack of anything constructive. It would result in an absolute void, devoid of anything of legitimate substance. I actually prefer this to the idea of a haphazard allegory for anarchy and totalitarianism, as I figure that a metaphysical conflict like this lends itself better to something more absolute and universal in nature.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Re: entropy, that actually draws to mind a good comparison. A state of absolute stasis and a state of absolute randomness will both bring about the same end result—that is to say, a complete lack of anything constructive. It would result in an absolute void, devoid of anything of legitimate substance. I actually prefer this to the idea of a haphazard allegory for anarchy and totalitarianism, as I figure that a metaphysical conflict like this lends itself better to something more absolute and universal in nature.

I like to think that that distinct forces *negative* outcomes are not necessarily parallels of the others, nor do they need to be contrasted thematically, nor be neat allegories. The downside of Order is gonna be Authoritatrism in some aspect, and should be explored as such, doesn't mean it has to be reflected on other cosmic power as Anarchy.

[Woobels]

Sounds like patch will launch 15th, although they didn't want to reveal exact date. I wonder if they keep good habit and share 10.1 info same/next week. Preferably as youtube video 8.3 style (hate this fake discussion videos).

I think this patch PTR must start really fast for game to launch first half of May or it will be similar schedule to 9.1 - because patch + season start + world first race must happen outside D4 launch hype window.

Where's the 15th coming from?

[Nathanyel]

Where's the 15th coming from?

Educated guesses, like most things that turn out to be true (and are then seen as prophetic, or proof that the person has inside sources)

[AOL Instant Messenger]

In the writhing pre-existence of the not-yet-to-be-born—
In the Void that seeks subsistence, and sanity, and form,
The eyeless serpent turned its gaze outwards upon the storm—
And it saw the Worlds-That-Walked, that could one day be deformed.

No logic nor chronology did serve to stop their fuss,
For in the Void, What-Could-Be is as though it always was
And had a world that's yet to walk been wrested from its place;
The uncertain Gods-That-Weren't would be born with that world's face.

It happened once, and only once, that a World-That's-Not did walk;
Potential turned concrete, and the vanguard did result.
And all of space did fear its birth, for it sought to birth the rest—
"twas their vanguard, dread Dimensius, who once took the name K'Aresh.

In the furthest reach of nowhere, the Final Titan waits and sleeps;
Its existence is the linchpin that all the universe won't weep.
The mounds of flesh, the waiting whispers, the maybe-is that could be born—
The Void Lords are contingent, none know yet if they'll be formed;
If the mounds are gone, the world remains, and they will never be.
If the mounds remain, the world is gone, and the eyeless serpent will yet see.


(Edit: Slightly altered per a very good change @guro-tchai suggested)

[Nymrohd]

Educated guesses, like most things that turn out to be true (and are then seen as prophetic, or proof that the person has inside sources)

I'm back to raid logging the last four weeks so I hope it's true.

[Revamp Man]

I think it's probably it. Like being "fleshy" isn't intrinsically bad, is just that it makes beings less controllable as constructs, vulnerable to outside forces -such as the Void-

Like yeah the Void did do it in order to advance its own plans, but they could also re-frame it as being at least partially about free will.

it is going to be 100% predictable and thus framed as some giant twist reveal just like nzoth getting released or the klaxxi queen in BfA

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I'm back to raid logging the last four weeks so I hope it's true.

im ready for the power boost
i am still using the assembly ring so replacing it with a fire damage proc and the absorb with a physical damage proc and letting me swap out my flaring cowl for a better itemized helm and an embellished weapon

[Nymrohd]

it is going to be 100% predictable and thus framed as some giant twist reveal just like nzoth getting released or the klaxxi queen in BfA

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im ready for the power boost
i am still using the assembly ring so replacing it with a fire damage proc and the absorb with a physical damage proc and letting me swap out my flaring cowl for a better itemized helm and an embellished weapon

I wonder if all the fire damage procs work with the new Ret paladin talent that increases Fire damage dealt by 10%. I have the belt and I lucked into one of the rings.

[Cheezits]

I would really like them to flesh out the Void race cultures a bit more. The K'thir look cool but are very one-note in BFA. Even the Naga were pretty boring in 8.2.

[Dracullus]

EU has really long (predicted) maintenance this week, 3AM-7AM tomorrow and 2AM-10AM on reset day.

[lieutvurt]

They should do WoW 2 with Unreal engine 5.1, cartoon style like now is shit. Mostly singelplayer so all can play.

[Makabreska]

They should do WoW 2 with Unreal engine 5.1, cartoon style like now is shit. Mostly singelplayer so all can play.

Just make WoW 2 4Head!