Good! And hopefully someone is getting fucking reward for this. Power is the future!
This is all bad design. it shouldn't have happened then. It shouldn't happen now. It should be fixed. Just because you're on the benefitting end this time doesn't mean people are out to get you. We're all just tired of balance being poor when it comes to tanking because they can't seem to get it right when it comes to tanks and there always seems to be a couple of outliers.
In S1 here of Dragonflight, those outliers are Warriors on the good end and Druid, Brew, and DH on the bad end.
Pretty much everyone agreed bears were broken in legion and needed nerfs, (they did get a good few including losing mark of ursol all together mid expac)
Mass grip feeling mandatory has been a discussed problem for years but having high impact on a few bosses vs what prot warrior is now or what bears were in legion is not really a fair comparison. The 100% uptime boneshield is irrelevant because it mitigates far less damage compared to the non 100% ones. AM "checks" don't even exist anymore.
Brm yes have been an above average tank for a while but for most of that time have been in the #2 slot to some other tank. And by 100% stagger I assume you mean 100% shuffle uptime, and they need that or they effectively would be taking hits like they were a dps. Brm doesn't have high armor like other tanks it depends on staggering damage to avoid getting 1 shot by auto attacks.
Prot pallies are probably where I think most tanks should fall balance wise(atm), high utility is/has always been their thing and outside being insane dps for most of SL raid content have been a low quality tank for a long time. ATM they feel like they can stand their ground against physical damage reasonably, the best parts of their kit is high utility(which i wish all tanks brought) and they have impactful but not OP cds.
Prot warriors have not been stuck behind forever like you imply. They were the premier M+ tank for most of bfa, between the DK bonestorm nerf and vers stacking(via corruption) Brm in later nya'lotha, which made them damn near unkillable and could face tank even the highest of keys. They are just TOO ahead atm in terms of ease of tanking M+. I have both a warrior and a brewmaster above 2400 atm and I can tell you I am frequently so glad when im on my warrior. So many things feel easier and safer. If you really want a list I'll throw a shit ton of examples together, but the number of times im glad to be on my monk(outside doing really high burst damage on large packs) is super low. Brm doesn't feel like it smooths out damage well(which is kind of its thing) and so many tank busters feel like a death sentence on it.
Last edited by Elbob; 2023-01-11 at 04:33 PM.
"Several expansions"
Lol prot wars where king throughout most of BFA and where pretty damn close to the meta pick of VDH in Season 1 of Shadowlands. Prot War had 2 relevant seasons in shadowlands of not being near the top! Oh the suffering!
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You can't read or type since you said the discord has "people attempting 27s", not one guy in the world who even had the ability to zone into a 27. You gonna sit here like you're buds with the top IO tank in the world now though? Have him come to the thread to defend his good friend, this should be popcorn inducing.
When he got called out for this earlier in the thread, he did a total derp and was like, but a key requires 5 people. It's a shitty walkbalk because that implies dudes entire M+ team is in that Discord and discussing Warriors and how tanks are busted or whatever bullshit he's trying to pull.
Legion S1 - FR - IP weaving build, while fun to play, it was "fine"
Legion S2-4 - After redesign it was Good when you had Shield Block up, garbage when it dropped down
BFA pre patch - My defensives were literally cut in half, I struggled to survive on any boss in Antorus
BFA S1 - it was a nightmare... not only my nerfed defensives got worse by leveling up, I lost all the bandaid traits from artifact that fixed some issues and every god damn thing was on GCD... I completed dungeon hero achievement early on with guildies (it was a real struggle) leveled my brewmaster, went into the mythics with him with leveling greens on and I felt like a nuclear bunker vs broken umbrella on warrior
BFA S2 - 1 new trait that gave avatar a mastery bonus and a new talent that made TC do more damage on lower CD... on top of that m+ affix was a huge trash wave that did next to nothing so you could just cleave them with boss. This was the "peak" in bfa not for defensives, utility or CC, It was for damage during Avatar... then it got nerfed hard
BFA S3 - pretty much the same.. but after the nerfed damage and new affix prot warrs were in the middle of the pack. Defensive CDs in betweem Shield Block uptime was a part of a rotation...
BFA S4 - Whichever tank rolled better Twilight Devastation won... all that mattered was class toolkit which warrs were lacking
SL - lol
Dragonflight - most of the things we were asking for to fix Prot warrs were given to us (with Shield block to 100% uptime being the most significant one), Now Prot warrs have their full potential. What people should be asking for is bringing up other tanks to a BDK/Prot warr level, not making yet another expansion a struggle to get a group
You talk about Final Fantasy and then you talk about holy trinity being removed. You are aware that Final Fantasy is even harder stuck in the holy trinity than WoW is? Your suggestion of "let every class be able to do everything" also isn't what FF14 does, unless you can give me an example of a White Mage tanking?
LOL yup literally in BFA all every MDI season every team is literally running a port warrior, 2 DK with a WW monk or BM hunter. LOL saying Port warrior is crap for several expansion is such a lie.
Right now the issue with Prot warrior is they have too much mitigation with 100% uptime. They have shield block, IP and def stance. In fact most prot warrior don't even use def stance till they are doing a +16 and above. Then there is all the passive leech and also there is a ton of armour and also in their talent tree they have. Also their rage generation is off the charts. They no longer have to chose to spend it on Shield block or IP or revenge. On top of that they also dodge, and parry attack they can have spell reflect. A ton of gap closer, good CC.
That's why they are miles ahead of everyone. Look at poor bear tanks and brew. Both suffering and no buff. The 110.0.5 talent tree changes to bear only made it so the left side of the tree can actually keep up with right side but doesn't address surivabilty at all. Bear doesn't block, we don't parry, we only dodge and reduce damage via bear form to increase armour and use Ironfur which is nothing compare to warrior IP or shield block.
"I Am Vengeance. I Am The Night. I Am Felfáádaern!"
As a Healer can confirm this. Each time our group get DK tank I feel uncomfortable because of the spiky nature of their incoming damage and restoring health I have no way to tell if they are okay or gonna die in a second. Also can confirm that Protection Warriors are the best for me. The pattern of incoming damage is so smooth I can comfortably plan their healing and the healing of the rest of the party.
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While it may be the case that the meta does tend to shift heavily for the slightest imbalance, every tank I know (myself included) who plays multiple tanks finds Prot Warriors grossly overpowered.
I am also a bear main, but my nearly as geared alt is a prot pally. I'm only about +- 400-405 iLevel atm, but my 372 prot warrior can compete on the same keys and feel safer than either of those tanks.
It all comes down to what they did to prot warriors with the talent changes. Compared to previous seasons, they gave them easy 100% uptime on shield block, and an incredibly rage income. This combined with easier ways to use Ignore Pain, that heals them for % health on use, and Prot Warriors have the most mitigation by FAR of any tank while having healing that is only beaten by Blood DKs.
Generally tank balance is between survivability and self healing, either you have alot of one and less of the other, or you have a balanced amount of both. Brews and Warriors tended to be on the survivable end (they die slow), but didn't heal that much. DH and DKs were the opposite. Self healed alot, but could go splat easy. Bears and Pallies sat in the middle, and normally only excelled when a set bonus or balancing issues pushed them into crazyland (think S4 Incarn bears)
Right now, Warriors have the best and the 2nd best of survivability and self healing. That is impossible to beat and it shows.
If you made bears as good as warriors right now, you'd have to give them a 10-15% flat DR and remove the cooldown from Frezied Regen. That's how strong Warriors are right now.