The pain starts after you hit level 70.

[LauraHydra1]

I play very casually, and I just hit 343 ilvl. The requirement for heroics is 342. I didn't buy anything, I crafted one item. If I hadn''t done that, I would have gotten something of the same level through a quest.

[Wyrt]

The last expansion you didn't need rep or renown to advance the campaign was WoD and that's because there barely was a campaign at all.

[OokOok]

Unlike other expansions, the faction reputation grind is mandatory for the campaign.
The random heroic requires very high gear ilevel.

It's called time gating,
It exists because players have no lives and like to no life the game. Which means after a week they'd have nothing to do and you'd be on here complaining you have nothing to do.

You're always going to complain it doesn't matter what it's about or what they do or don't do.

[Nyel]

It's called time gating,
It exists because players have no lives and like to no life the game. Which means after a week they'd have nothing to do and you'd be on here complaining you have nothing to do.

You're always going to complain it doesn't matter what it's about or what they do or don't do.

If it would be time gating, the campaign would unlock on a weekly basis and a casual player could just wait 4-6 weeks to play it all. This time around though you need to heavily grind numbing "content" to unlock the main campaign. That's a huge difference to Shadowlands.

[rhorle]

If it would be time gating, the campaign would unlock on a weekly basis and a casual player could just wait 4-6 weeks to play it all. This time around though you need to heavily grind numbing "content" to unlock the main campaign. That's a huge difference to Shadowlands.

Reputation levels is a form of time gating. The game is designed to give a certain amount each week with little effort. You can keep farming for diminishing returns of course but it is still gating things based on time. It is the perception that makes all the different in how players receive it. A hard time gate that can't be passed is seen as bad. A reputation unlock that is gated the same for most players isn't seen as bad because there is no perception of a hard limit.

Reputation can work the opposite way to. To much and many have fomo and need to do everything. That was the largest complaint about changing from weekly to daily quests in Dragonflight. People suddenly were afraid they were going to miss out on renown/rep. The time gate was changing without them wanting to change their play time.

[Forum Action]

Everything is locked behind renown, from cosmetics, to profession recipes, to Dragonriding customization to the main campaign quests. So unless you really just care for Mythic+ and raiding, you're fine. If you care for anything more than that, you're forced to grind renown.

You would have to overlook the massive weekly rep gains you get via quests for this to be true though. Its slow now becuase people are trying to brute force the rep that is designed to be done over weeks.

[schwarzkopf]

Unlike other expansions, the faction reputation grind is mandatory for the campaign.

Thankfully, like all recent expansions - LITERALLY NO GRIND is required.

You just do the main content, do the big stuff and you'll get what you need without any grinding.

However - as always, you can CHOOSE to endlessly grind, if that is your preferred method.

I'm at 10/10/12/13 renown without doing any grinding.

[Nyel]

Thankfully, like all recent expansions - LITERALLY NO GRIND is required.

You just do the main content, do the big stuff and you'll get what you need without any grinding.

However - as always, you can CHOOSE to endlessly grind, if that is your preferred method.

I'm at 10/10/12/13 renown without doing any grinding.

That's simply not true. Being at your renown levels, you did not do the "main content", you must have done way more than that, e.g. grinding rares, dailies or the three mind-numbingly boring events. By just doing the "main content" (which is the campaign and lore master) you don't get anywhere close to your renown levels.

[erifwodahs]

That's simply not true. Being at your renown levels, you did not do the "main content", you must have done way more than that, e.g. grinding rares, dailies or the three mind-numbingly boring events. By just doing the "main content" (which is the campaign and lore master) you don't get anywhere close to your renown levels.

Oh no, he played the game and did some world quests! Horrible grind! I mean, do your weekly high rep givers and log out or grind your life away - at least there is a choice which we didn't have with covenants in SL so it's automatically superior. If you think current content is boring, I mean, it it's the 6th expansion in a row where it has worked like this, have you considered that you might been playing the wrong game?

[Zoibert the Bear]

People had issues getting into Heroic? Also people run Heroic?

This line of thought is what will ultimately kill WoW.

[schwarzkopf]

That's simply not true.

Reality is always true... I did only the main content (primary story line and quests and world quests).

[erifwodahs]

This line of thought is what will ultimately kill WoW.

I mean, while his take is cynical, there is no such a thing like "people have issues getting into heroic" - people might want skip a step in a gear progression, but by no means there are any obstacles which would prevent anyone joining a HC as soon as they have done their normal level gear progression which literally has no obstacles besides level and being able to press a que button.

[Nyel]

Reality is always true... I did only the main content (primary story line and quests and world quests).

You had to do a ton of world quests to get to those renown levels when the only other thing you did was the main story quests and lore master.

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Oh no, he played the game and did some world quests! Horrible grind! I mean, do your weekly high rep givers and log out or grind your life away - at least there is a choice which we didn't have with covenants in SL so it's automatically superior. If you think current content is boring, I mean, it it's the 6th expansion in a row where it has worked like this, have you considered that you might been playing the wrong game?

Uhm, please look where the main campaign quests are locked and then talk about grind again. Yes, it's a horrible grind for the players that want to experience the main storyline, when you have to get to renown 19 or even 25 with some factions.

[schwarzkopf]

You had to do a ton of world quests to get to those renown levels

Not a ton, they only reset once a week ... so don't go all strawman please.

[Nyel]

Not a ton, they only reset once a week ... so don't go all strawman please.

Okay, then I'm back to my previous argument of your perception of reality being... different. I finished the main story and lore master on my main, did very few dailies / world quests, the events 2-3 times and my renown is stuck on - 7/8/7/9. I'm not going strawman, your comment "I'm at 10/10/12/13 renown without doing any grinding" is just the opposite of the truth.

[schwarzkopf]

Okay, then I'm back to my previous argument of your perception of reality being... different.

I'm talking about ACTUAL reality, not yours or mine. There is objectively speaking - LITERALALLY NO GRIND required. That's it.

[erifwodahs]

Uhm, please look where the main campaign quests are locked and then talk about grind again. Yes, it's a horrible grind for the players that want to experience the main storyline, when you have to get to renown 19 or even 25 with some factions.

I believe I am at Vladraken 14 atm, only doing stuff I fly over in the world, it's middle of week two. I think we will manage and all power to the people who wanted to grind to 25 in this time. More options apparently is a bad thing to you.

- - - Updated - - -

Okay, then I'm back to my previous argument of your perception of reality being... different. I finished the main story and lore master on my main, did very few dailies / world quests, the events 2-3 times and my renown is stuck on - 7/8/7/9. I'm not going strawman, your comment "I'm at 10/10/12/13 renown without doing any grinding" is just the opposite of the truth.

I call bullshit on this, I probably skipped half of the stuff in week one because I literally didn't loot at a single guide and did stuff which I saw on mini-map, these numbers are more like what I had when I finished leveling and the campaign.

[Nyel]

I'm talking about ACTUAL reality, not yours or mine. There is objectively speaking - LITERALALLY NO GRIND required. That's it.

Doing daily stuff for weeks and months to increase your renown to reach max is the epitome of grinding, renown is even called as the "reputation grind" by basically everyone, but whatever. Have fun.

[Loveliest]

This line of thought is what will ultimately kill WoW.

Why? I skipped hc altogether. Hc is there for people with no guilds and no friends who don't want to make friends for whatever reason (time, will etc). Just like LFR. It will continue existing for them, while a part of us will ignore it. Been like this since forever.

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Doing daily stuff for weeks and months to increase your renown to reach max is the epitome of grinding, renown is even called as the "reputation grind" by basically everyone, but whatever. Have fun.

Yeah but his point is that grind means going out of your way.
For example, Wrathion rep. You can grind keys and get there or you can just do your quests once a week and eventually get there. First is grind, second is not grind. But now we're all getting into semanthics.

[Wyrt]

Doing daily stuff for weeks and months to increase your renown to reach max is the epitome of grinding, renown is even called as the "reputation grind" by basically everyone, but whatever. Have fun.

No, grinding is what people are doing with the black dragon keys. That's grinding. Logging in, doing a few WQs and weekly quests isn't grinding, it's playing the game.

There isn't even daily stuff to do for rep anymore. There's new WQs every 4 days and then a few weekly events and quests.