PvE quests that require war mode!

[Mixx]

Why did Blizzard add PvE quests that require war mode on? Trying to kill a PvE miniboss with 5m HP is really fun with 10+ Alliance night elves zerging everyone that tries to get near the quest mobs…

[Lochton]

Why did Blizzard add PvE quests that require war mode on? Trying to kill a PvE miniboss with 5m HP is really fun with 10+ Alliance night elves zerging everyone that tries to get near the quest mobs…

That ain't a direct PvE quest, though? It is set right in an arena. Don't do it if you don't want to turn on Warmode.

[Unlimited Power]

You know, you can still group for it even if the group finder doesn't give you a prompt for it. Just search the quest name or the name of the proto-drake in custom and I'm sure you'll quickly find a group.

There were originally some issues with phasing, probably to discourage grouping for these, but people quickly learned that relogging after joining a group would put you in the leader's shard.
I think Blizzard ended up just fixing it so you just change shards immediately.

[LordVargK]

You know, you can still group for it even if the group finder doesn't give you a prompt for it. Just search the quest name or the name of the proto-drake in custom and I'm sure you'll quickly find a group.

There were originally some issues with phasing, probably to discourage grouping for these, but people quickly learned that relogging after joining a group would put you in the leader's shard.
I think Blizzard ended up just fixing it so you just change shards immediately.

You change into WM shard? Really?

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That ain't a direct PvE quest, though? It is set right in an arena. Don't do it if you don't want to turn on Warmode.

Why are they shown in Valdrakken with WM disabled, though? Funny enough, the real PvP quest (killing other players in Cobalt arena) IS doable when WM is turned off. The other ones (kill miniboss get loot) is NOT doable when WM is turned off and the WQ is only shown when you are in Valdrakken.

[Vakna]

PvP World Quests showing up while you have WM turned off is pretty annoying, they need to fix that bug asap.

[Lochton]

Why are they shown in Valdrakken with WM disabled, though? Funny enough, the real PvP quest (killing other players in Cobalt arena) IS doable when WM is turned off. The other ones (kill miniboss get loot) is NOT doable when WM is turned off and the WQ is only shown when you are in Valdrakken.

They are shown so people can see they are there but once you approach, they disappear. The cobalt one is the only outlier which is weird but most likely due to the fact that people want to "level" cobalt outside of PvP and that is a zone of its own setup.

[Feril]

These quests have been designed by psychopaths.

Also, they shouldn't even be war mode specific, since they're already always in free for all zones. The "kill 25 of the opposite faction" should just be "kill 25 hostile players" since, again, the battles occur mainly in free for all zones.

[Lochton]

PvP World Quests showing up while you have WM turned off is pretty annoying, they need to fix that bug asap.

Unsure if bug or not, it is weird. Then again, a small icon with swords kinda just tells you, Warmode content here.

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These quests have been designed by psychopaths.

Also, they shouldn't even be war mode specific, since they're already always in free for all zones. The "kill 25 of the opposite faction" should just be "kill 25 hostile players" since, again, the battles occur mainly in free for all zones.

I agree with the 25-kill one. It is annoying that it only counts the opposing faction when you have FFA zones where you can kill your own faction.

[ClownPrincess]

The problem is pvp quests that can be done too easily by PvEing. Nowadays when you arrive at a pvp quest you mostly find carebears doing the pve objectives without killing one another. If you attack someone they gang up on you for having the impudence of trying to pvp in a pvp world quest.

It happens a lot in particular in the cobalt arena. You have a bunch of giant idiots choke full of powers circling the place but never attacking one another.

The pve objectives are supposed to be a fallback if no one is around to fight, not the main objective. Completing the quest this way should be an order of magnitude slower.

[Jester Joe]

These quests have been designed by psychopaths.

Also, they shouldn't even be war mode specific, since they're already always in free for all zones. The "kill 25 of the opposite faction" should just be "kill 25 hostile players" since, again, the battles occur mainly in free for all zones.

The 25 kill one is only for Alliance to encourage them to turn on war mode when there's far less Alliance than horde.
Unless they changed that.

So that makes sense.

But the bosses should be moved out from FFA areas, it's just extra dumb design to not only have to fight the opposite faction but your own too.

[Vakna]

Unsure if bug or not, it is weird. Then again, a small icon with swords kinda just tells you, Warmode content here.

Definitely a bug since you can see them in a city, then fly out to them and they disappear.

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The problem is pvp quests that can be done too easily by PvEing. Nowadays when you arrive at a pvp quest you mostly find carebears doing the pve objectives without killing one another. If you attack someone they gang up on you for having the impudence of trying to pvp in a pvp world quest.

It happens a lot in particular in the cobalt arena. You have a bunch of giant idiots choke full of powers circling the place but never attacking one another.

The pve objectives are supposed to be a fallback if no one is around to fight, not the main objective. Completing the quest this way should be an order of magnitude slower.

It's funny that you call out ganging up on people as a bad thing, when PvPers the world over will argue that 10v1 fights are "legitimate PvP" and that the 1 guy should just "get good or play minecraft".

[Lochton]

Definitely a bug since you can see them in a city, then fly out to them and they disappear.

Again. Not sure. Since you can see them before you enter the zone too, then you enter, but you cannot see them because you aren't in war mode. It is annoying though.

[Gorsameth]

The problem is pvp quests that can be done too easily by PvEing. Nowadays when you arrive at a pvp quest you mostly find carebears doing the pve objectives without killing one another. If you attack someone they gang up on you for having the impudence of trying to pvp in a pvp world quest.

It happens a lot in particular in the cobalt arena. You have a bunch of giant idiots choke full of powers circling the place but never attacking one another.

The pve objectives are supposed to be a fallback if no one is around to fight, not the main objective. Completing the quest this way should be an order of magnitude slower.

They are not there for PvP because no one gives a shit about world PvP, especially you apparently since you complain about getting ganked up on 1v10 when that is what world PvP is all about.

They are there for the reward, and the easiest and quickest way to get the reward is to not bother with PvP.

If you want to fight other players, go play arena or battlegrounds.

[Nynax]

The problem is pvp quests that can be done too easily by PvEing. Nowadays when you arrive at a pvp quest you mostly find carebears doing the pve objectives without killing one another. If you attack someone they gang up on you for having the impudence of trying to pvp in a pvp world quest.

It happens a lot in particular in the cobalt arena. You have a bunch of giant idiots choke full of powers circling the place but never attacking one another.

The pve objectives are supposed to be a fallback if no one is around to fight, not the main objective. Completing the quest this way should be an order of magnitude slower.

The blood coin rewards for doing the WM quest are good enough to just want a quick in and out. I'm just after some easy gear and a transmog set. I'm not afraid to PVP, but 1 blood coin per kill isn't worth trying to farm players. Rather just get the quest done and pick up War Supply drops while doing other stuff. I finished the collecting the full WM set doing this.

[Frostfred]

Why did Blizzard add PvE quests that require war mode on? Trying to kill a PvE miniboss with 5m HP is really fun with 10+ Alliance night elves zerging everyone that tries to get near the quest mobs…

I think that's the basic design idea behind the quest: Add PvP by people hindering each other trying to get the kill. Good old PvPvE. Nothing wrong with it imo.

The problem is pvp quests that can be done too easily by PvEing. Nowadays when you arrive at a pvp quest you mostly find carebears doing the pve objectives without killing one another. If you attack someone they gang up on you for having the impudence of trying to pvp in a pvp world quest.

It happens a lot in particular in the cobalt arena. You have a bunch of giant idiots choke full of powers circling the place but never attacking one another.

The pve objectives are supposed to be a fallback if no one is around to fight, not the main objective. Completing the quest this way should be an order of magnitude slower.

Agreed. I guess it happens much more in the cobalt arena due to those buffs: People are trying to keep them, or they'd be an easy kill for everyone with a few stacks of good buffs. Dying once puts you at a huge disadvantage. In addition, there are stupidly OP ones for PvP like the 5 min immortal buff. So people just don't risk engaging in something that has a high chance of them dying to avoid that snowballing. There's a lot more PvP happening on the other quests.

But in general, it also brings me back to the discussion we had in the other thread: If there are good rewards for PvE in a PvP quest, we end up with people not interested in PvP at a PvP quest. It's by design, and just adds another reason for me to advocate for a better split between the two in terms of rewards. I think it will get more PvP focused once most PvEers have geared their chars, and collectors are through with their 20x each quest achievement / transmog set.

[Feril]

The 25 kill one is only for Alliance to encourage them to turn on war mode when there's far less Alliance than horde.
Unless they changed that.

So that makes sense.

But the bosses should be moved out from FFA areas, it's just extra dumb design to not only have to fight the opposite faction but your own too.

It doesn't make sense, since I (Alliance) get the quest, but when I go to where players are located, all I see is Alliance and people wondering why does their quest number not go up after 10 kills.

All of this war mode bonus system should radically change: No "war mode active" bonus for an "underrepresented" faction. You'd start getting a gradual bonus if you actually DIE to players, and gradually lose it if you or party/raid members kill other players or facilitate kills. If you kill or help kill too much, you get an anti-bonus (you don't lose any rewards, but if you start dying you'd have to get that anti-bonus off first before even starting to get the positive bonus). That way the bonus would benefit players who are REALLY having a hard time doing the quests regardless of faction, and it wouldn't be a region-wide blanket bonus for existing. Then you make quests and objectives non-faction specific and you have a better system.

[Jester Joe]

It doesn't make sense, since I (Alliance) get the quest, but when I go to where players are located, all I see is Alliance and people wondering why does their quest number not go up after 10 kills.

All of this war mode bonus system should radically change: No "war mode active" bonus for an "underrepresented" faction. You'd start getting a gradual bonus if you actually DIE to players, and gradually lose it if you or party/raid members kill other players or facilitate kills. If you kill or help kill too much, you get an anti-bonus (you don't lose any rewards, but if you start dying you'd have to get that anti-bonus off first before even starting to get the positive bonus). That way the bonus would benefit players who are REALLY having a hard time doing the quests regardless of faction, and it wouldn't be a region-wide blanket bonus for existing. Then you make quests and objectives non-faction specific and you have a better system.

That fails to encourage people to flick on war mode in the first place. Don't go to the free for all areas is an easier fix, and the quest straight up said "kill opposing faction players". It's not like it's a vaguely/bad worded quest.

You're asking for people to suffer being killed repeatedly before they get any bonus. Also introducing an easily exploitable feature that could be used to grief people by having several players of one faction get killed repeatedly by their opposing faction friends, so they can make an unstoppable group that just resets the buff by repeating the same steps.

[Feril]

That fails to encourage people to flick on war mode in the first place. Don't go to the free for all areas is an easier fix, and the quest straight up said "kill opposing faction players". It's not like it's a vaguely/bad worded quest.

You're asking for people to suffer being killed repeatedly before they get any bonus. Also introducing an easily exploitable feature that could be used to grief people by having several players of one faction get killed repeatedly by their opposing faction friends, so they can make an unstoppable group that just resets the buff by repeating the same steps.

Well, it's already a failed system since the bonus is always 25-30% and it would actually be lost if people joined in, so it isn't designed as an encouragement (since engaging reduces the bonus), and my idea is not for encouragement but to properly compensate players for actually having a harder time (the thing the developers have said the bonus is for).

As for the exploit, account wide diminishing returns for the positive bonus and brutal over-stacking for the negative one fixes it. Too much work setting up the farm for too little gain.

Alternatively, the bonus can just... not be there, and you get direct rewards for actual open world PvP. Again, with account wide cooldowns and diminishing returns that remember if certain kills-deaths are a habit day to day and week to week.

Open world PvP has this thing about it in which no one wants to do it except for a chosen few who must be catered to, so it constantly needs handouts to force people (collectors, min-maxers, etc) into it. It's a propped up corpse that can't ever occur naturally, but if it's here to stay there should be ways to make it at least more fair (yeah, I know, open world PvP is not fair) and more seamless and interesting.

[Jester Joe]

Well, it's already a failed system since the bonus is always 25-30% and it would actually be lost if people joined in, so it isn't designed as an encouragement (since engaging reduces the bonus), and my idea is not for encouragement but to properly compensate players for actually having a harder time (the thing the developers have said the bonus is for).

As for the exploit, account wide diminishing returns for the positive bonus and brutal over-stacking for the negative one fixes it. Too much work setting up the farm for too little gain.

Alternatively, the bonus can just... not be there, and you get direct rewards for actual open world PvP. Again, with account wide cooldowns and diminishing returns that remember if certain kills-deaths are a habit day to day and week to week.

Open world PvP has this thing about it in which no one wants to do it except for a chosen few who must be catered to, so it constantly needs handouts to force people (collectors, min-maxers, etc) into it. It's a propped up corpse that can't ever occur naturally, but if it's here to stay there should be ways to make it at least more fair (yeah, I know, open world PvP is not fair) and more seamless and interesting.

We can hardly judge if it's actually a failed system or not though when the Horde just has the more hardcore population by default. Your bonus would disincentive the Horde from killing the Alliance knowing they're just helping them get stronger.

It's more of a nice bonus to suffer through the pain of being outnumbered as Alliance with what they currently have too, instead of having to deal with being camped without any bonus until you die a few times, and then only getting that a restrictive amount of times?

[ClownPrincess]

They are not there for PvP because no one gives a shit about world PvP, especially you apparently since you complain about getting ganked up on 1v10 when that is what world PvP is all about.

It might be what it's all about for you because you're the kind of idiot who only wait for others people to attack first so world pvp never happens on your own terms. But if you don't care about world pvp, then shut the fuck up.

And yes, this is why pve objectives should be ten times less efficient than killing players. Then maybe the carebears would fuck off.