Will melee overtake range again?

[sponge5307]

I didn't play BFA but watching all the MDI it seems most teams are melee-heavy with maybe 1 range. Come SL is all about range and people mostly only bring one melee other than tanks.

With DF it seems melee overall is doing more damage than range. I mean more melee class seems to do more damage vs the overall range class. Only time I see good damage from a range is when are a shadow priest(very surprised by this) and a demo lock. But I am seeing melee doing some crazy dps. Been doing only m0 and some heroic here and there. Is too early to tell but will pugs stack melee this time around? Or at least be willing to take 2 melee instead of just one? Or maybe is just coz every tank and their mom is just pulling non stop which makes it hard for range to actually put damage out.

[Relapses]

The reason melee are brought over ranged has a lot to do with how many interrupts are needed. Melee interrupts are on a shorter CD so more melee means more interrupts. This is somewhat offset by the fact that many healers can now interrupt as well, where before only Shaman healers were able to do this. A few dungeons already seem to have some pretty important interrupts so I'd say you're likely to see melee-preferred comps at the beginning of the season as people learn which interrupts are mandatory and which ones can be whiffed.

[Thirtyrock]

I didn't play BFA but watching all the MDI it seems most teams are melee-heavy with maybe 1 range. Come SL is all about range and people mostly only bring one melee other than tanks.

With DF it seems melee overall is doing more damage than range. I mean more melee class seems to do more damage vs the overall range class. Only time I see good damage from a range is when are a shadow priest(very surprised by this) and a demo lock. But I am seeing melee doing some crazy dps. Been doing only m0 and some heroic here and there. Is too early to tell but will pugs stack melee this time around? Or at least be willing to take 2 melee instead of just one? Or maybe is just coz every tank and their mom is just pulling non stop which makes it hard for range to actually put damage out.

I think it's a little of column A and a little of column b.

Right now trash dies quickly enough that most ranged classes can't really put out their AOE damage before the trash is dead. Demon hunters (my main) can put out almost all of our heavy damage in 4 globals plus the channel time of Eye Beam, and then our damage falls off until these relatively short CDs come back up.

Tanks are also pulling quickly, including myself when I tank, the incoming damage isn't so bad that we need to be super careful about chaining pulls. I can normally start pulling the next pack as the current one is down to 25%ish health. Healers aren't running out of Mana and I'm not dying, so it's more efficient to do that. With keys, that won't be AS possible, because we'll have to manage CDs and mana more efficiently.

[sponge5307]

The reason melee are brought over ranged usually has little to do with the damage they do (though it's important) and more to do with how many interrupts are needed. Melee interrupts are on a shorter CD so more melee means more interrupts. This is somewhat offset by the fact that many healers can now interrupt as well, where before only Shaman healers were able to do this. A few dungeons already seem to have some pretty important interrupts so I'd say you're likely to see melee-preferred comps at the beginning of the season as people learn which interrupts are mandatory and which ones can be whiffed.

God I hate Brackenhide Hollow where no one interrupts! the mob that fear hate it lol. I use one interrupts as a tank and next pack no one used them and pretty much everyone gets fear into other mobs. Then there is AoE spinning adds that does a lot of damage. Had to drop one group 3 wipes coz people aren't using their interrupts. Doesn't help the fact hunter keep using barriage and aggro other packs.

I think it's a little of column A and a little of column b.

Right now trash dies quickly enough that most ranged classes can't really put out their AOE damage before the trash is dead. Demon hunters (my main) can put out almost all of our heavy damage in 4 globals plus the channel time of Eye Beam, and then our damage falls off until these relatively short CDs come back up.

Tanks are also pulling quickly, including myself when I tank, the incoming damage isn't so bad that we need to be super careful about chaining pulls. I can normally start pulling the next pack as the current one is down to 25%ish health. Healers aren't running out of Mana and I'm not dying, so it's more efficient to do that. With keys, that won't be AS possible, because we'll have to manage CDs and mana more efficiently.

I keep pulling too much like w2w pull in ffxiv and notice my hp does go down a lot from time to time.

[Thirtyrock]

I keep pulling too much like w2w pull in ffxiv and notice my hp does go down a lot from time to time.

What class are you playing? DHs have a LOT of self healing (I'm actually a bit surprised we're not seeing survivability nerfs already, but I guess they're waiting to see how it holds up in M+ and Raids). But still, those damage spikes aren't so bad that healers are running low on mana, I'd wager.

[Relapses]

God I hate Brackenhide Hollow where no one interrupts! the mob that fear hate it lol. I use one interrupts as a tank and next pack no one used them and pretty much everyone gets fear into other mobs. Then there is AoE spinning adds that does a lot of damage. Had to drop one group 3 wipes coz people aren't using their interrupts. Doesn't help the fact hunter keep using barriage and aggro other packs.

For Brackenhide, focus the Bracken Warscourge. These mobs are a bit larger than everything else so they're usually pretty easy to spot. They seem to follow a cast-sequence where they'll cast the Ragestorm (which can be tranq'd/soothed) followed by Bite (tank damage), followed almost immediately by the Hideous Cackle which needs to be interrupted.

Thankfully this dungeon won't be in the M+ rotation for Season 1 but I can see this whole thing needing a lot of tuning once it is.

[sponge5307]

What class are you playing? DHs have a LOT of self healing (I'm actually a bit surprised we're not seeing survivability nerfs already, but I guess they're waiting to see how it holds up in M+ and Raids). But still, those damage spikes aren't so bad that healers are running low on mana, I'd wager.

I mainly play a bear druid now. Hp drops usually happens at the start of a dungeon. I am guessing healer is just zoning in and I see dps starts pulling already.

For Brackenhide, focus the Bracken Warscourge. These mobs are a bit larger than everything else so they're usually pretty easy to spot. They seem to follow a cast-sequence where they'll cast the Ragestorm (which can be tranq'd/soothed) followed by Bite (tank damage), followed almost immediately by the Hideous Cackle which needs to be interrupted.

Thankfully this dungeon won't be in the M+ rotation for Season 1 but I can see this whole thing needing a lot of tuning once it is.

Yea really dislike that dungeon due to fear otherwise is not so bad. Oh and people need to learn to get out of AoE.

[Thirtyrock]

I mainly play a bear druid now. Hp drops usually happens at the start of a dungeon. I am guessing healer is just zoning in and I see dps starts pulling already.

Oh, man, lol, those DPS can eat the dinner they prepared for themselves hahaha.

[D3athsting]

God I hate Brackenhide Hollow where no one interrupts! the mob that fear hate it

Tbh i don't know how fear made it to 2022, it's ok for pvp but quite stupid mechanic for pve

[Jujudrood]

Tbh i don't know how fear made it to 2022, it's ok for pvp but quite stupid mechanic for pve

Fear is fine because it's interruptable.
If you choose to tunnel and stare at your meters instead of following mechanics, you deserve to be feared into other mobs and die.
That's the whole point, do the mechanics.
Not every mob should just be a punching bag that has zero threat to anyone; mechanics and stakes are what make a dungeon run fun.
Otherwise, it's just a lolaoefest where everyone is asleep at the wheel.

[Relapses]

Fear is fine because it's interruptable.
If you choose to tunnel and stare at your meters instead of following mechanics, you deserve to be feared into other mobs and die.
That's the whole point, do the mechanics.
Not every mob should just be a punching bag that has zero threat to anyone; mechanics and stakes are what make a dungeon run fun.
Otherwise, it's just a lolaoefest where everyone is asleep at the wheel.

While true, there is something that just feels terrible about AOE fears when compared to other forms of wipe-inducing mechanics. "Wow, that cast did unhealable amounts of damage!" hits different than "oh, my character is now running into a pack and now another pack and now another pack and oh my g-"

[Karawaka]

2 things I can think of that may have range dps more popular later in the xpac. Higher keys means more mop hp which means more time for range to ramp damage, and there are a lot of aoe mechanics that melee need to constantly be running out of. Can be very frustrating after a while

[D3athsting]

Thankfully this dungeon won't be in the M+ rotation for Season 1 but I can see this whole thing needing a lot of tuning once it is.

Ruby life pools last boss is quite nasty, will be fun with tyrannical if doesn't get nerfed

[Thirtyrock]

While true, there is something that just feels terrible about AOE fears when compared to other forms of wipe-inducing mechanics. "Wow, that cast did unhealable amounts of damage!" hits different than "oh, my character is now running into a pack and now another pack and now another pack and oh my g-"

Aww, come on, those are some of the funniest pulls ever. Everyone's running in different directions, PRAYING they don't run into a new pack...Good times (the first once or twice)

[Relapses]

Aww, come on, those are some of the funniest pulls ever. Everyone's running in different directions, PRAYING they don't run into a new pack...Good times (the first once or twice)

That stuff is fun in Normal/Heroic/M0s but once your key gets bricked because a single interrupt is missed it quickly becomes incredibly toxic.

[Thirtyrock]

That stuff is fun in Normal/Heroic/M0s but once your key gets bricked because a single interrupt is missed it quickly becomes incredibly toxic.

I completely understand. This is a significant reason I don’t pug keys that are challenging. If my guild group messes up we try again and move along.

I hate dealing with the toxicity of players leaving mid-key rather than trying to get better and trying again.

[Simulacrum]

The reason melee are brought over ranged usually has little to do with the damage they do (though it's important) and more to do with how many interrupts are needed.

If interrupts were that important, and melee interrupts carry melee, every single group would just run prot paladin and then slot in the top DPS afterwards.

[Relapses]

If interrupts were that important, and melee interrupts carry melee, every single group would just run prot paladin and then slot in the top DPS afterwards.

Hello? I said that damage is important, but that the answer to the OP's question is that melee will likely be favored in the short-term since interrupts are, you guessed it, also important. There are stops, stuns and other forms of CC which can easily sway the potency of group comps, too. You can absolutely run with 3 Moonkins all not spec'd into interrupt and likely be perfectly fine if everybody is on the same page; however, if you're PuGing everything and have absolutely no idea what or who you're bringing to your group, melee will be appealing.

And yeah, Prot Paladin is a cheat code for interrupt-heavy dungeons and absolutely will remain a solid pick for players pushing lower keys. Prot Paladin's niche only begins to wear thin once you start to get to keys where the ability to single-handedly carry interrupts in a key isn't as important.

[Simulacrum]

Hello? I said that damage is important, but that the answer to the OP's question is that melee will likely be favored in the short-term since interrupts are, you guessed it, also important. There are stops, stuns and other forms of CC which can easily sway the potency of group comps, too. You can absolutely run with 3 Moonkins all not spec'd into interrupt and likely be perfectly fine if everybody is on the same page; however, if you're PuGing everything and have absolutely no idea what or who you're bringing to your group, melee will be appealing.

And yeah, Prot Paladin is a cheat code for interrupt-heavy dungeons and absolutely will remain a solid pick for players pushing lower keys. Prot Paladin's niche only begins to wear thin once you start to get to keys where the ability to single-handedly carry interrupts in a key isn't as important.

You said melee being brought has little to do with their DPS, but with their interrupts. I say that's wrong, otherwise everyone would bring prot paladin and the top-dps, rather than settling for the (hypothetically lower) top-melee-dps just because they have melee interrupts. But the reason you bring melee interrupts is because they're *also* top-dps, *and* they're also the tankiest. Nobody says "don't bring resto druid / evoker because they don't interrupt", they actually say "resto druid/evoker is S tier" because it's the HPS (and DPS) that matters. If havoc had 40 sec interrupt, you'd still probably bring two almost every group if you had two to bring. Heck, you may well bring three, as long as there are no class stacking caps.

[sponge5307]

That stuff is fun in Normal/Heroic/M0s but once your key gets bricked because a single interrupt is missed it quickly becomes incredibly toxic.

Fun times in upper and lower kara lol. Huntsman during phase 2 when people get run over by the flaming horse or Shade of Medivh when people don't jump up and down or get one shot. Man those are fun times. I always giggles when going to Shade of Medivh coz chance are one of the dps will get him/herself killed or the wipe the group. And they always have no clue what happens. Inferno Bolt is awesome too! Watching someone got the debuff but never actually goaing to the person who got the frostebite and 2 people die is priceless.