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  1. #1

    How much fun is 2h Frost?

    I know fun is a player preference, but i would like to get the general idea of 2h Frost at the moment.

    Never liked the sindragosa dual wield. So would like to play to 2h at the moment. But i heared alot of people saying that (2h) frost is boring as hell at the moment.

    Is it really that bad? I don't need a complex spec, but would like to more then spamming just 2 buttons.

    Any info is welcome
    Baine is not my Warchief

  2. #2
    Banned Cynical Asshole's Avatar
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    Frost is underpowered and garbage atm. Don't waste your time. Or just play Unholy, then, it's good.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Akomu View Post
    I know fun is a player preference, but i would like to get the general idea of 2h Frost at the moment.

    Never liked the sindragosa dual wield. So would like to play to 2h at the moment. But i heared alot of people saying that (2h) frost is boring as hell at the moment.

    Is it really that bad? I don't need a complex spec, but would like to more then spamming just 2 buttons.

    Any info is welcome
    The keyword you looking for is the reward. It's not about complexity. And often - it's about how well balanced it is. The worst combo would be complex gameplay, that doesn't give the output it deserves.

    Frost is simple - you just keep aligning short and long CDs. As you can expect the same performance outcome, it rewards you constantly.

    UH is complex with much more keybinds and pet control - to a level that it feels diminishing. There is a big gap between the UH DKs. You need to track much more as well. It rewards you massively, if you can align everything spot on.

    But what would happend if frost recieved a DPS buff? UH will lose it's value - complexity loses everytime.

    So, it's two different appeals:
    If you are competetive, then pick UH(it will certainly make you a better player).
    If you are overall - pick frost and expect it to recieve a buff soon.
    Last edited by HansOlo; 2023-01-05 at 09:43 PM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Akomu View Post
    I know fun is a player preference, but i would like to get the general idea of 2h Frost at the moment.

    Never liked the sindragosa dual wield. So would like to play to 2h at the moment. But i heared alot of people saying that (2h) frost is boring as hell at the moment.

    Is it really that bad? I don't need a complex spec, but would like to more then spamming just 2 buttons.

    Any info is welcome
    I play it. It's fun.

    There's a single target build without Remorseless Winter that's quite fun.

    As always, play what you like. Most people that complain aren't in the margin of it mattering.

  5. #5
    Banned Cynical Asshole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    The keyword you looking for is the reward. It's not about complexity. And often - it's about how well balanced it is. The worst combo would be complex gameplay, that doesn't give the output it deserves.

    Frost is simple - you just keep aligning short and long CDs. As you can expect the same performance outcome, it rewards you constantly.

    UH is complex with much more keybinds and pet control - to a level that it feels diminishing. There is a big gap between the UH DKs. You need to track much more as well. It rewards you massively, if you can align everything spot on.

    But what would happend if frost recieved a DPS buff? UH will lose it's value - complexity loses everytime.

    So, it's two different appeals:
    If you are competetive, then pick UH(it will certainly make you a better player).
    If you are overall - pick frost and expect it to recieve a buff soon.
    Unholy isn't even a complex spec.

    WW monk, MM hunter, feral druid, shadow priest, demo and affliction locks, survival hunter. THOSE are complex specs.

    Unholy is somewhere between DH and WW monk, same as fury warrior and ret paladin. And I would know all about that, I HATE complex specs, I hate them with passion, and in this expansion almost everything has a ton of buttons, but Unholy is very much manageable, not like the specs above.
    Last edited by Cynical Asshole; 2023-01-05 at 09:52 PM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Cynical Asshole View Post
    Unholy isn't even a complex spec.

    WW monk, MM hunter, feral druid, shadow priest, demo and affliction locks, survival hunter. THOSE are complex specs.

    Unholy is somewhere between DH and WW monk, same as fury warrior and ret paladin. And I would know all about that, I HATE complex specs, I hate them with passion, and in this expansion almost everything has a ton of buttons, but Unholy is very much manageable, not like the specs above.
    I can agree on WW - always been unnecessarily complex and borderline dumb. Survival too.

    But he is asking about DK specs. UH is clearly the most complex out of those two. The reason is petcontrol and it requires planning/micro management.

    Neutrally, there is a bigger gap between the UH players compared to frost players.

  7. #7
    Banned Cynical Asshole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    I can agree on WW - always been unnecessarily complex and borderline dumb. Survival too.

    But he is asking about DK specs. UH is clearly the most complex out of those two. The reason is petcontrol and it requires planning/micro management.

    Neutrally, there is a bigger gap between the UH players compared to frost players.
    Pet control? Unless you're doing very high rated arena, you barely need to do any pet control. All you need is a /petpassive button that calls back your pet.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Cynical Asshole View Post
    Pet control? Unless you're doing very high rated arena, you barely need to do any pet control. All you need is a /petpassive button that calls back your pet.
    Correct, pet control is largely a meme in pve and I've only ever heard people who don't play pet classes complain about pet control.
    OT: Try 2handed frost and see if you like it, don't let people bully you into playing meta specs. I'll take a try-hard 2handed frost over a fotm breath DK who breathes through his mouth irl. /s

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Angrie View Post
    I play it. It's fun.

    There's a single target build without Remorseless Winter that's quite fun.

    As always, play what you like. Most people that complain aren't in the margin of it mattering.
    Do you have a link for that build without remorseless winter?
    Baine is not my Warchief

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    The keyword you looking for is the reward. It's not about complexity. And often - it's about how well balanced it is. The worst combo would be complex gameplay, that doesn't give the output it deserves.

    Frost is simple - you just keep aligning short and long CDs. As you can expect the same performance outcome, it rewards you constantly.

    UH is complex with much more keybinds and pet control - to a level that it feels diminishing. There is a big gap between the UH DKs. You need to track much more as well. It rewards you massively, if you can align everything spot on.

    But what would happend if frost recieved a DPS buff? UH will lose it's value - complexity loses everytime.

    So, it's two different appeals:
    If you are competetive, then pick UH(it will certainly make you a better player).
    If you are overall - pick frost and expect it to recieve a buff soon.
    UH looks complex, but really isnt. You pop CDs (they align pretty much by them self) and during Gargoyle window you spam more Death Coils than Scourge Strikes. Other than that, press buttons and do dps.
    Quote Originally Posted by atenime45 View Post
    The 10% reward. It's was unspoken rule that you DONT attack other faction so everyone could enjoy the 10% reward. But now no one cares about that anymore

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cynical Asshole View Post
    Pet control? Unless you're doing very high rated arena, you barely need to do any pet control. All you need is a /petpassive button that calls back your pet.
    Pets... the horror. So many times my pet was somewhere else and im pressing the damn key.. oo hey hes running to the target to stun him way to late.

    You dont need high rating to experience the gimmicks.

    You like pets or not. simple. Its not for everyone.
    Last edited by Alanar; 2023-01-06 at 02:40 PM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Akomu View Post
    Do you have a link for that build without remorseless winter?
    BsPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAkEBASSiEIBRSSSIiIJRSSAkQSCQSSSKJBAAAAAAAAAAAA


    ^^ Import code

    https://bloodmallet.com/chart/death_...stingpatchwerk

    I personally change the class tree to my own likings, but there you have it.

    You can see it only does ~1,500 less single target DPS than the dual-weld variant but the EXACT same as the t29 (raid spec). To answer the thread, yes, 2H is fun, and yes, also viable.

    Frost is also in the top 5 specs overall.
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/31

    Don't believe all these nay-sayers, that can't even link the data. They are the bottom-tier, lower-echelon of the game. Play it!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akomu View Post
    I know fun is a player preference, but i would like to get the general idea of 2h Frost at the moment.

    Never liked the sindragosa dual wield. So would like to play to 2h at the moment. But i heared alot of people saying that (2h) frost is boring as hell at the moment.

    Is it really that bad? I don't need a complex spec, but would like to more then spamming just 2 buttons.

    Any info is welcome
    I dont think 2h Oblit is more fun than BoS, i think if you can get really good at keeping BoS up it can be the most fun mele spec but its punishment/reward ratio is way off especially in a situation where you cannot realistically keep your RP up enough to make it worth it.

    2h Oblit, even if it pumped would still be boring, if you want to hit more than 2 buttons i definitely dont think 2h Oblit is the way to go

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Cynical Asshole View Post
    Unholy isn't even a complex spec.

    WW monk, MM hunter, feral druid, shadow priest, demo and affliction locks, survival hunter. THOSE are complex specs.

    Unholy is somewhere between DH and WW monk, same as fury warrior and ret paladin. And I would know all about that, I HATE complex specs, I hate them with passion, and in this expansion almost everything has a ton of buttons, but Unholy is very much manageable, not like the specs above.
    this simply isnt true

  15. #15
    I am leveling it now(at 68 so almost all talents anyway) and play 2hander and I think its fun. Spamming dungeons atm and are having fun, which has actually been a bore until I started leveling the DK. I am more of a CD-priority player(as in I like that) and spamming the few buttons outside it is comfortable for me. Its like Arcane and Havoc in Legion/BfA/SL as I enjoyed them before.

    And 2hander is cool. I do have BoS though, not sure if supposed to have, but its flowing well anyway.

    And a spec that flows well improves my enjoyment.

    Mained it in SL and damn I'll main it now anyway(fuck healing)
    Last edited by Doffen; 2023-01-10 at 07:43 PM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Cynical Asshole View Post
    Frost is underpowered and garbage atm. Don't waste your time. Or just play Unholy, then, it's good.
    They said fun. Not how much dmg it is doing. They are not the same thing.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Utrrabbit View Post
    They said fun. Not how much dmg it is doing. They are not the same thing.
    I question how much fun you can have if you end up hitting like a wet noodle. Some level of success at the task is very much part of the fun of gameplay.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Utrrabbit View Post
    They said fun. Not how much dmg it is doing. They are not the same thing.
    This is true for singleplayer games, but that argument doesn't work when the fun stops because you get kicked for low dps or just don't get invited because they inspect your gear/talents.

    And then there's also players, like me, who enjoy doing well and can't accept doing worse just to have a different weapon.

    Of course there's ways to circumvent this problem by finding like-minded people, but that's solving a problem that you yourself created.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aydinx2
    People who don't buy the deluxe edition should be permanently banned. I'm sick of playing with poor people.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Aydinx2 View Post
    This is true for singleplayer games, but that argument doesn't work when the fun stops because you get kicked for low dps or just don't get invited because they inspect your gear/talents.

    And then there's also players, like me, who enjoy doing well and can't accept doing worse just to have a different weapon.

    Of course there's ways to circumvent this problem by finding like-minded people, but that's solving a problem that you yourself created.
    Their is MORE to wow than raids or dungeons. Only a small portion of the playerbase raids or do dungeons. So your example is moot.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I question how much fun you can have if you end up hitting like a wet noodle. Some level of success at the task is very much part of the fun of gameplay.
    Raiding and dungeons are a very small percentage of the playerbase. Most players only do WQ and world content.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Utrrabbit View Post

    Raiding and dungeons are a very small percentage of the playerbase. Most players only do WQ and world content.
    I'd say that even then throughput matters. Getting to see a rare die faster, being able to solo old raids easier, it all goes back to numbers you can pull.

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