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  1. #361
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    No, thats how you twist things to fit your narrative, i know exactly what the guy wrote and is talking about.
    Then what is it about if not if players are more interested in harder content. Can you points me toward the original comment ?

    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    Get it in your skull, bad players do not know things and therefor do not get an opinion about things, but keep trying.
    Ha yes, the return of the elitism, clearly helping your legitimacy to just discard any point of view based on an arbitrary limit that you fixes yourself only. No wonder some keys are hard to enjoy with players such as yourself.
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  2. #362
    Quote Originally Posted by Zardas View Post
    Ha yes, the return of the elitism, clearly helping your legitimacy to just discard any point of view based on an arbitrary limit that you fixes yourself only. No wonder some keys are hard to enjoy with players such as yourself.
    Part of working with computers since i was 14, i consider everyone an idiot unless they prove otherwise, and i am never wrong on my instict.

    "I'm not calling you a liar. The lack of evidence is. The accepted truth is people don't rise to the challenge. A credible authority on the issue has said this. You claim that this is false and that people will rise to the challenge. You've provided no source for this except for "trust me, bro". A friends list will prove nothing."

    You quoted it 5 mins ago, at least read properly.

    To make you understand how i view you..You are a flat earther for WoW, you have the basic knowledge to roam the internet, but not the skills/intelligence to not soak the wrong.

    You are meme category/entertainment.

  3. #363
    Quote Originally Posted by lllll View Post
    No.

    All the data blizzard has points to people not getting better and "rising to the occasion" when there's content that's harder than they can handle.
    And you don't tihnk that it can be linked to people like you ? Because, strangely, I've seen plenty of people "rising to the occasion" when I took the time to explain them their mistake and guide them towards the right path for them to correct those mistake. But I sure can understand that many players like you don't really have the skill to teach other and that's ok, no hard feelings mate
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  4. #364
    Stood in the Fire lllll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zardas View Post
    And you don't tihnk that it can be linked to people like you ?
    Yes, I was personally responsible for the massive crying about the difficulty of cataclysm heroics(which I pretty much never pugged because I ran them mostly with a guild team), yep. You sure got me. People crying about the difficulty of visions in BFA sure was my fault as well even though it was a solo endeavour.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zardas View Post
    Because, strangely, I've
    I don't care. I've played, according to raider.io's season recaps, some 12000ish(Not including keys left) keys during BFA & SL. I also played Legion, which didn't get a recap. I have a larger sample size, just from my own keys, than you could ever obtain from your friends and players DO NOT GET BETTER. It's pointless talking to them and not tenable with the amount of bad players that are out there, it would be a full-time job to talk to every single bad player and even then they won't get better.
    Last edited by lllll; 2023-01-10 at 10:00 PM.

  5. #365
    Quote Originally Posted by Zardas View Post
    And you don't tihnk that it can be linked to people like you ? Because, strangely, I've seen plenty of people "rising to the occasion" when I took the time to explain them their mistake and guide them towards the right path for them to correct those mistake. But I sure can understand that many players like you don't really have the skill to teach other and that's ok, no hard feelings mate
    Not everybody has the same aptitude and expecting players to learn from their mistakes over the course of a timed dungeon... simply isn't going to happen. Using the League analogy you kept harping on earlier, you wouldn't expect a Challenger player on your team to coach a Bronze bot lane how to stall creeps in lane or general map theory... why should the same be expected of WoW players?

  6. #366
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    And it's his fail, if he invites "bad" ones. And there are social ways to punish such players. Blacklist them for example.
    Oh boy, by that logic I would essentially need to ignore 1 player per group I join.

    Here is a decent compromise for all the dwellers here. How about we just add a visible stat to each player that shows how many times they have left a dungeon before a key has been complete? Is that a reasonable enough "social punishment" for everyone?

    That way I can just refuse to invite the tanks that leave in the middle of a simple +10-15 key because a rando dps gets splattered.

  7. #367
    So let's say you're healing a key and people start dying to trash because they dont let the tank get aggro, or interrupt, or cc mobs. 100% dps failing to do basic mechanics, but getting mad at the healer when they take 90% of their hp in one hit.

    Or the tank starts chain pulling without giving you time to get mana back. And dps start dying because you're not there to heal them. And then the tank goes right into boss with one dps dead and you at 3% mana.

    Or what if you're tanking, and some of the group members decide to start pulling for you and die and then start yelling at you.

    Or what if you're dpsing and doing more than the other two combined and every boss fight ends up just being you, the tank, and the healer.

    Why should anyone be forced to sit through any of those situations or risk massive punishment for leaving. Bad players exist, and people lie about their skill all the time. If people are constantly leaving your keys, maybe you should see what's the same
    The greater the light, the darker the shadow. And this light casts a shadow over all I see - the Prophet Velen, when asked what's next for Blizzard

  8. #368
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    Part of working with computers since i was 14, i consider everyone an idiot unless they prove otherwise, and i am never wrong on my instict.
    Thank you so much for answering that way, it will allow me to use the same stupid logic you used previously, maybe you will then understand how stupid that is. Quick reminder this was your answer and the classic example of your elitism :

    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    I do enjoy how without a shame you type out +9, something that you reach and is easily manageable in the first 2 hours of when they enabled M+ a few weeks ago and the actual gameplay pretty much starts at around +12, especially after the nerfs.
    So, now to follow your logic I could type that :

    I do enjoy how without a shame you type out "working with computers since i was 14", something that you can do much earlier and any real worker starts easily at 11, especially after the easier accesibility of those machines.

    We don't play in the same park, we don't speak the same language therefore you have no authority on the matter, therefore everything yoyu say is wrong.

    See how stupid such elitism is ? Just because you started computers pretty late doesn't mean that you shouldn't be able to debate about them and the people using them, right ? Just like the fact that i'm doing keys lower than you doesn't mean that I shouldn't be able to debate about them. Hope this helped you make a little introspection.


    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    To make you understand how i view you..You are a flat earther for WoW, you have the basic knowledge to roam the internet, but not the skills/intelligence to not soak the wrong.

    You are meme category/entertainment.
    Well, if you need any insight one how the world view you : as a sad and cynical guy having lost all faith in humankind, and playing a game he doesn't even really seems to like anymore, partaking in not even 10% of his content, while claiming that he's so much better than everyone in it (spoiler : he's very far from the top)
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  9. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by teh1tom View Post
    Here is a decent compromise for all the dwellers here. How about we just add a visible stat to each player that shows how many times they have left a dungeon before a key has been complete? Is that a reasonable enough "social punishment" for everyone?
    It quickly becomes irrelevant once you understand why someone would abandon a key.

    In SL season 4 we had a +29 key. We went in and wiped so hard on the first pull, even with BL, that we just abandoned that run. Then we started it on 28, made it to the first boss and wiped there and then we abandoned that run. Started it on 27, wiped to the first boss again and abandoned it again. Started it on 26, killed the boss and timed it.

    That's 3 leaves in like 30 minutes.

  10. #370
    Quote Originally Posted by lllll View Post
    Yes, I was personally responsible for the massive crying about the difficulty of cataclysm heroics(which I pretty much never pugged because I ran them mostly with a guild team), yep. You sure got me. People crying about the difficulty of visions in BFA sure was my fault as well even though it was a solo endeavour.
    Not you personnaly : "people like you". There is unfortunately many people like you in the game.



    Quote Originally Posted by lllll View Post
    I don't care. I've played, according to raider.io's season recaps, some 12000ish(Not including keys left) keys during BFA & SL. I also played Legion, which didn't get a recap. I have a larger sample size, just from my own keys, than you could ever obtain from your friends and players DO NOT GET BETTER. It's pointless talking to them and not tenable with the amount of bad players that are out there, it would be a full-time job to talk to every single bad player and even then they won't get better.
    And guess what's the common denomiator in all of those 12000ish keys ?

    Also can you give me a link to all those keys ? Because that's like a bit less than 10 keys per day, which is quite worrying.
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  11. #371
    Quote Originally Posted by lllll View Post
    It quickly becomes irrelevant once you understand why someone would abandon a key.

    In SL season 4 we had a +29 key. We went in and wiped so hard on the first pull, even with BL, that we just abandoned that run. Then we started it on 28, made it to the first boss and wiped there and then we abandoned that run. Started it on 27, wiped to the first boss again and abandoned it again. Started it on 26, killed the boss and timed it.

    That's 3 leaves in like 30 minutes.
    Yeah that makes sense, but is not hard to apply some logic such as whether or not all members left the group right away or hell we could add a "vote to quit" method that the whole group votes on to prevent this as an issue.

    Also in your example those players are such an extreme they definitely are not the target of this kind of adjustment. If I saw someone had completed a 25+ key and they had 1k uncompleted dungeons I would just assume that's par for the course.

  12. #372
    Stood in the Fire lllll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zardas View Post
    Also can you give me a link to all those keys ?
    You're asking if I'd like to dox myself?

    I don't think so. If you know my character name, you can find my real name and by that extension, my phone nr and address and so forth.

  13. #373
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Not everybody has the same aptitude and expecting players to learn from their mistakes over the course of a timed dungeon... simply isn't going to happen. Using the League analogy you kept harping on earlier, you wouldn't expect a Challenger player on your team to coach a Bronze bot lane how to stall creeps in lane or general map theory... why should the same be expected of WoW players?
    To continue the League analogy : Bronze players wouldn't be matched with challenger. But inside a regular Bronze game, I would indeed expect the most competent player to quide the less capable, at least to call the shots, like when to do baron, drakes etc, warn players if they are doing a terrible build against the ennemy team etc.

    Not sure about the feasibility on that tho (unlike for wow) since I only play league with 4 friends.
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  14. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by zRares View Post
    I don't understand how there are no repercussions if someone leaves the M+ group (for various reasons) and messes up someone else's key.

    In PvP if you leave nobody loses anything else but time and your spot can be replaced by someone else and you still get deserter, in M+ nothing.

    Literally, nobody is trying in M+ anymore because they don't have to. If people would get a 30 minutes deserter for leaving an M+ group, people would try harder to finish a key even if it will be depleted or barely in time.

    Is it just me, or?
    Main problem with this is how do you distinguish between someone leaving or someone who gets kicked? From a programming standpoint

  15. #375
    Quote Originally Posted by lllll View Post
    You're asking if I'd like to dox myself?

    I don't think so. If you know my character name, you can find my real name and by that extension, my phone nr and address and so forth.
    How would I know your real name from your character name ? Except if you put your real name as character name of course.
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  16. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by teh1tom View Post
    Yeah that makes sense, but is not hard to apply some logic such as whether or not all members left the group right away or hell we could add a "vote to quit" method that the whole group votes on to prevent this as an issue.

    Also in your example those players are such an extreme they definitely are not the target of this kind of adjustment. If I saw someone had completed a 25+ key and they had 1k uncompleted dungeons I would just assume that's par for the course.
    Or we could just keep the system as is and not have to vote to quit a key that nobody of us want to continue in.

  17. #377
    Quote Originally Posted by Zardas View Post
    Thank you so much for answering that way, it will allow me to use the same stupid logic you used previously, maybe you will then understand how stupid that is. Quick reminder this was your answer and the classic example of your elitism :



    So, now to follow your logic I could type that :

    I do enjoy how without a shame you type out "working with computers since i was 14", something that you can do much earlier and any real worker starts easily at 11, especially after the easier accesibility of those machines.

    We don't play in the same park, we don't speak the same language therefore you have no authority on the matter, therefore everything yoyu say is wrong.

    See how stupid such elitism is ? Just because you started computers pretty late doesn't mean that you shouldn't be able to debate about them and the people using them, right ? Just like the fact that i'm doing keys lower than you doesn't mean that I shouldn't be able to debate about them. Hope this helped you make a little introspection.




    Well, if you need any insight one how the world view you : as a sad and cynical guy having lost all faith in humankind, and playing a game he doesn't even really seems to like anymore, partaking in not even 10% of his content, while claiming that he's so much better than everyone in it (spoiler : he's very far from the top)
    So many words over the fact you are terrible at pixels.

    Wait, i will tell Windows ME to release 2 years earlier and my parents to meet earlier so i can learn computers at 11.

  18. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zardas View Post
    How would I know your real name from your character name ? Except if you put your real name as character name of course.
    Because I've applied to guilds in the past where that was posted and those forums/pages are still up and appear on google when you search for my characters name.

  19. #379
    Quote Originally Posted by Zardas View Post
    To continue the League analogy : Bronze players wouldn't be matched with challenger. But inside a regular Bronze game, I would indeed expect the most competent player to quide the less capable, at least to call the shots, like when to do baron, drakes etc, warn players if they are doing a terrible build against the ennemy team etc.

    Not sure about the feasibility on that tho (unlike for wow) since I only play league with 4 friends.
    Do you actually play League with randos ? It's worse than M+
    Quote Originally Posted by Smoopie
    this change is to help players like you..... you know..night elf with tyrannical beheader...

    Azharok - Dalaran EU

  20. #380
    Quote Originally Posted by Azharok View Post
    Do you actually play League with randos ? It's worse than M+
    Of course not, I'm not crazy
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