Leaving M+ group should give you DESERTER

[chiddie]

Have you ever seen someone leave a dungeon that went okay?

By answering this question for yourself you will be enlightened.

Basically at the first remote sign the timer will be missed, 9 on 10 someone will leave.

Seen that countless times when I m+ed.

This isn’t “bad” per se and is somehow understandable but into the PUG environment it becomes “dramatic” because of the well know reasons.

[Lolites]

It's pretty predictable when people feel the need to go to mocking people because they can't argue the point.

im sorry, who am i mocking by telling that solution that doesnt solve shit is not a solution? or is it by pointing you might actualy be wrong?

and you said you solve it, great, didnt need any system for that apparently, so system is not necesary, so why adding one, if literaly nobody came with one that would solve anything, or at least wouldnt make things worse?

please just dont tag me anymore, i would put you in ignore already but cant bcs you are mod (which btw, is stupid, since afaik you are mod in different subforum...)

[Greevir]

And people who underperform in M+ should get a "Useless" debuff.

[sponge5307]

Have you ever seen someone leave a dungeon that went okay?

By answering this question for yourself you will be enlightened.

I have. No wipes, tank hp never drop 60% below, and healer mana never drops 60% as well. Got to 2nd last boss to AA and the healer all of a sudden said tank was taking too much damage and left. The key was 2 to 3 chested, but nope healer decided to bail for no reason. Keys brick just wasted everyone's time. I have also been in keys where people didn't like the route tank is taking and left. So yea, I am enlightened.

[Lolites]

I have. No wipes, tank hp never drop 60% below, and healer mana never drops 60% as well. Got to 2nd last boss to AA and the healer all of a sudden said tank was taking too much damage and left. The key was 2 to 3 chested, but nope healer decided to bail for no reason. Keys brick just wasted everyone's time. I have also been in keys where people didn't like the route tank is taking and left. So yea, I am enlightened.

and here is your reason... not saying its good reason or that he was right, but if healer was sure he cant heal it through (was it by any chance Vex?) on the boss he had reason to leave...
ofc it would be far more reasonable to at least try the boss, but if you tried the boss and wipe bcs low healing, would you be fine with it? or still think you should try few more times?

[sponge5307]

Doesn't work. What about players who run with a set group and leave in-progress keys intentionally when they realize they won't time it and it doesn't give them any IO? It's the type of metric that doesn't help anything and in the worst case scenario just makes the game objectively worse for all parties. It's not "just how this community is," it's simply a terrible suggestion.

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You can't Pause in League. (Only on the Tournament Realm and if it's a live game they mute comms when this happens.) Maybe it's different in other MOBAs but that's the only one I watch.

Sure it does will I pick jimmy the leaver who has left 50 keys in just 2 days after reset or Aaron the patient who only left 1 key? Hell, you bet I am picking Aaron over Jimmy since I know Aaron isn't going to leave over some stupid tiny issue. That's the difference. The more keys you leave and people can see it the more unlikely you will leave for tiny reasons.

But hey let's keep the system the same so people can abuse it with no punishment and waste everyone's time.

[Lolites]

But hey let's keep the system the same so people can abuse it with no punishment and waste everyone's time.

you are right, we need to change it so OTHER people can abuse it, and waste MORE of everyones time, that will be sooooo much better... /s

[Hablion]

Sure it does will I pick jimmy the leaver who has left 50 keys in just 2 days after reset or Aaron the patient who only left 1 key? Hell, you bet I am picking Aaron over Jimmy since I know Aaron isn't going to leave over some stupid tiny issue. That's the difference. The more keys you leave and people can see it the more unlikely you will leave for tiny reasons.

But hey let's keep the system the same so people can abuse it with no punishment and waste everyone's time.

You do realize people will just make troll groups to kick people so they get a high deserter count right? People do it to people leveling in dungeons all the time to troll. Getting kicked gives deserter as well unless they changed it recently that is.

[sponge5307]

and here is your reason... not saying its good reason or that he was right, but if healer was sure he cant heal it through (was it by any chance Vex?) on the boss he had reason to leave...
ofc it would be far more reasonable to at least try the boss, but if you tried the boss and wipe bcs low healing, would you be fine with it? or still think you should try few more times?

Nope it was on Telash Greywing right before the pull the left. It such an easy boss. Not much need to be do people just need to be aware of ice patch and brust the boss down ASAP. Umbrelskul is not hard as well. Pull them to the edge kill crystals. We have got a fury warrior, BrW tank, DH and I was on my ret pally. Lol if healer thinks tank is taking too much damage he can easily mention it I could have easily Off heal if need to. Mind you is only a +5 so damage that's going out isn't much to begin with.

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you are right, we need to change it so OTHER people can abuse it, and waste MORE of everyones time, that will be sooooo much better... /s

YOu are right we should keep it. In fact we have promote people from leaving. If you leave a group first not only get you 100k gold mail to you but also all your vault will be with mythic raiding gear and you can claim it right away. There is also no donwtime so you can do this all day everyday and every group you join. That should be fair as it reward people who left.

[Relapses]

Sure it does will I pick jimmy the leaver who has left 50 keys in just 2 days after reset or Aaron the patient who only left 1 key? Hell, you bet I am picking Aaron over Jimmy since I know Aaron isn't going to leave over some stupid tiny issue. That's the difference. The more keys you leave and people can see it the more unlikely you will leave for tiny reasons.

But hey let's keep the system the same so people can abuse it with no punishment and waste everyone's time.

When the cure is worse than the disease, yes. We should avoid those solutions. There are legitimate reasons to leave keys. What you're asking for would require Blizzard to develop an entirely new system which differentiates legitimate leaves from illegitimate ones. It also opens the door for all kinds of weird abuse where people hold dungeons hostage and force other players to leave first.

[Jester Joe]

im sorry, who am i mocking by telling that solution that doesnt solve shit is not a solution? or is it by pointing you might actualy be wrong?

and you said you solve it, great, didnt need any system for that apparently, so system is not necesary, so why adding one, if literaly nobody came with one that would solve anything, or at least wouldnt make things worse?

please just dont tag me anymore, i would put you in ignore already but cant bcs you are mod (which btw, is stupid, since afaik you are mod in different subforum...)

You literally claimed that I must be the issue if I'm having problems.

The same claim that's been said since page one, the whole "if you keep having this issue, it's you that's just bad"

Also working around a flawed system doesn't mean the flaws shouldn't be fixed

[chiddie]

When the cure is worse than the disease, yes. We should avoid those solutions. There are legitimate reasons to leave keys. What you're asking for would require Blizzard to develop an entirely new system which differentiates legitimate leaves from illegitimate ones. It also opens the door for all kinds of weird abuse where people hold dungeons hostage and force other players to leave first.

People are already “discriminated” by rio, adding another discrimination based on left dungeons would not hurt that much.

[Relapses]

People are already “discriminated” by rio, adding another discrimination based on left dungeons would not hurt that much.

They aren't, though? R.IO's rating is literally the same as Blizzard's.

[chiddie]

They aren't, though? R.IO's rating is literally the same as Blizzard's.

They are. Being it rio or blizzard is a system to filter players. Having a history on leaves just adds another filter.

I would prefer to invite Aaron the Patient with lower io and 1 leave than Johnny Quick with 50 leaves and higher io.

Unless to paraphrase Orwell “all the filters are equal but some are more equal than others”.

[Relapses]

They are. Being it rio or blizzard is a system to filter players. Having a history on leaves just adds another filter.

Again, nothing that R.IO shows is different than what's already on Blizzard's armory. If R.IO didn't exist, I'd just go players' armories and make the same calls I do from the information on the R.IO add-on.

[chiddie]

Again, nothing that R.IO shows is different than what's already on Blizzard's armory. If R.IO didn't exist, I'd just go players' armories and make the same calls I do from the information on the R.IO add-on.

And what if there’s no armory at all? Armory does exist because Blizzard made it. If they want the leave information do become relevant, they can at their will.

As I said it’s just another filter. Maybe useless for you and I can see why, but maybe useful for someone else and I can see why.

[Relapses]

And what if there’s no armory at all? Armory does exist because Blizzard made it. If they want the leave information do become relevant, they can at their will.

As I said it’s just another filter. Maybe useless for you and I can see why, but maybe useful for someone else and I can see why.

If they got rid of the armory then I simply wouldn't do M+ with PuGs because no data is a helluva lot worse than some data. This is a very stupid thought experiment you're trying out here.

[Jester Joe]

Again, nothing that R.IO shows is different than what's already on Blizzard's armory. If R.IO didn't exist, I'd just go players' armories and make the same calls I do from the information on the R.IO add-on.

Doesn't R.IO shows history and failed runs, armory only shows the best run?

[chiddie]

If they got rid of the armory then I simply wouldn't do M+ with PuGs because no data is a helluva lot worse than some data. This is a very stupid thought experiment you're trying out here.

The point is that the filter you find useful may not be my idea of useful filter instead.

But of course you are always right because “yes”, so I’m wondering why I’m still trying to arguing about M+ with you after all these years.

[Relapses]

The point is that the filter you find useful may not be my idea of useful filter instead.

But of course you are always right because “yes”, so I’m wondering why I’m still trying to arguing about M+ with you after all these years.

Considering the filter you're suggesting is ripe for abuse and doesn't actually help anybody, I don't really understand what you're getting at here. You haven't provided any remedies for the problems with the system I've suggested, you're trying to equate somebody being denied from a key for a high leave rate with being denied from a key for being a suboptimal candidate. I don't disagree with the premise of your argument but you're not arguing in favor of anything, you're just asking a redundant question.

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Doesn't R.IO shows history and failed runs, armory only shows the best run?

The Armory is wonky and I can't seem to get it to work atm; even said, R.IO's scraping the failed key information from somewhere and if R.IO wasn't supplying it, somebody else would. In all likelihood, I'd probably end up running players through WCL in a world where R.IO/amory didn't exist... again, this isn't really fixing anything. It's adding extra steps to the key preparation process.