Leaving M+ group should give you DESERTER

[pahbi]

Prepare to be kicked right before the endboss and replaced with "a friend who just came online" ...

As always folks find ways to abuse things, but I bet that would be the vast vast vast minority doing stuff like that.

Not only that, but if they are good enough to get to the boss, they are good enough to carry their friend.

I'm guessing M10 carries are hard to sell, so no real need to worry about that either.

[Steelcryo]

Should just be if someone leaves within the first 10 minutes, they get the debuff. Most people would figure they've sunk 10 minutes in, might as well finish it, unless the group was doomed to fail in which case everyone else isn't losing anything by them leaving.

[Mardux]

I've played probably 10s of thousands of key since Legion and I've seen people leave over the most stupidest of things a handful of times.

Press X to doubt.

[Valhalladin]

If I wanted to leave I would just afk for a few minutes until everyone else gets angry and leaves, which leaves me getting off Scott free with no debuff. GG

[lllll]

Press X to doubt.

You can x to doubt all you want, raider.io's recap puts me at 12kish keys done during BFA & SL.

I've got 2300 days /played on my account. I've got some 150 keys done already this season and we're barely even a month in and I haven't even gotten started at spamming keys yet, mainly been capping vaults.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

This legit happens every season, no matter what time of the season. Beginning of it, middle, or tail end.


It just so happens this issue feels particularly bad at the beginning of every new season. I can imagine it feels infinitely worse at the beginning of brand new expansion... like right now. I'm sorry your RLP and AV keys are never timed.


Unfortunately there is no clear-cut way to fix this. The way Mythic+ is designed within the the space of how World of Warcraft functions as a video game does not really offer many solutions above dropping the hammer on one aspect and ignoring others.


Luckily it is relatively easy to either 1.) push your own key back up to the level that was bricked... or 2.) depending on your role/spec/personal score (Raider.IO matters, sorry) while PUGing getting back into keystones of a specific level.

[Ludek]

Bosses hitting too hard only comes into effect on like +20 keys, and I’m confident that 90% of people doing +20 keys aren’t 5 randoms together.

I think you have really high expectations about the standard WoW playerbase to think that tyranical bosses are not the problem form the PUG people below +20

When your PUG group does not have skill, gear or coordination, then even +10 can be impossible - bosses like Overgrown Ancient or Raging Tempest showed that already on this expansion first tyranical week.

[Dristereau]

I don't really agree on this, as this is content formed by players selecting exactly who they wish to group with. If leaving a M+ gave deserter, should leaving a PUG raid also give it? The best thing to do is use something like RIO to get an idea of the quality of person you are considering inviting, or also from an individual POV the quality of the group you're considering applying for. My IO score isn't as high as some of Guildies, and we needed one DPS. With me lead we had one applicant over 2 minutes. Swap to someone else, we got 5 applicants in 30 seconds.

I also don't think it helps that the tuning for these dungeons seems so far all over the place at times I wonder if it was tested properly. Court of Stars and Shadowmoon Burial Grounds seem really really easy, Aszure Vault is somewhere in the middle (Boss 2/4 can be hard) and I've so far avoided Ruby Life Pools and have had a Guild group give up on Nok'hud Offensive (killed first boss + all trash with no issues, didn't get close to killing the Tornado, wiped at 5% on the duo). There's also hard bosses in some the instances, like the Tree in AA and Sha in TJS on Tyrannical.

[Vampyrr]

'video game a fair' no champ, his respecting his time

If people suck and die and refuse to do mechanics they arent respecting my time and I shouldn't have to be trapped in a bad key sorry.

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It's far from that, people are just assholes.
I did a +12 on my alt pala yesterday, was late and no healers really signed so took the first one.
He let the rogue die a couple times but we didn't have any wipes. Just before 3rd boss he just goes afk (we're still gonna time it). We finish trash and thinking he maybe DC.
Doesn't come back, we 4man the boss, still just afk's.
We do last boss and wipe at 5% with 1 min left on timer.

Had he just not afk'ed? We would almost 2 chest it. Instead? We failed the key...

I also think if you cant dedicate 30 min win or lose on a run? You just shouldn't do it.
They really need to punish you for leaving before the timer ends. Make it unable to queue for 1 hour.
Would make wonders for the pug scene.

That wouldn't of helped your situation either though. Your healer didn't leave the key just left the computer so he wouldn't get the punishment. But alternatively if someone goes afk and you CANT progress they key but they are still in the group should those who leave be punished? The system wont be smart enough to deal with that.

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Clearly, you are not playing with randoms or you ar in the top 1% of players.

I was not saying that they need to get -M+ rating because it does not even make sense, the way rating for M+ works.

And nobody needs to carry anyone, but if you decided to join a group and you are ok with the group than you should stick to it. It could be that you can leave after 10 deaths without any penalties, or after a vote to end the dungeon or something.

Some people are super toxic can leave after the tiniest error and they mess up your key even tho it would have been timed.

There should be a system in place to incentivize players to stay and finish the key.

It's funny to me that people that don't have issues with leavers are against it, probably because they are the elitists that leave groups and mess up people's keys )

I pug all the time bud I dont run into these rampant issues. There are a couple of servers I blacklist entirely but for all others I complete 98%+ of runs. Had maybe 1 leaver all DF.

[Sariengrey]

WoW mythic+ is occasionally a toxic cesspool. While I have only ever left first a handful of runs in 5 years, if some toxic mofo is talking crap to me...I am out. Lots of players think they are some WoW authority in mythic+. I don't suffer fools in real life and I won't suffer them in a videogame. They don't pay for my account or my time, so yeah sometimes you got to step out. I am going to disagree with OP. For the record I usually get 2-4 toons doing +15, now higher(hopefully)

[Cazz17]

Tyrannical applies to all key levels.

Yes I am aware but there’s no way that ‘bosses hit too hard on tyrannical’ can be a factor until you’re reaching those 20+ keys. If your group is dying to tyrannical bosses anywhere in the +2-+17 key then that’s player fault. Removing the affix is overkill.

[Nymrohd]

Yes I am aware but there’s no way that ‘bosses hit too hard on tyrannical’ can be a factor until you’re reaching those 20+ keys. If your group is dying to tyrannical bosses anywhere in the +2-+17 key then that’s player fault. Removing the affix is overkill.

Given how much harder a current +17 is than one in the previous season due to scaling differences as well as the fact that we are still relatively early in the season and gear levels are still low, I call bullshit.

[Lolites]

If people would get a 30 minutes deserter for leaving an M+ group, people would try harder to finish a key even if it will be depleted or barely in time.

or they would just stick around, do nothing, only autofollow or whatnot, until someone else losses patience and leaves first, wasting MORE time on top of the key...
yes there are idiots who leave for stupidest reasons, but deserter debuff wouldnt really help it, it would kinda make things worse, bcs people who have genuine reason would shouldnt be punished, and people who are just idiots wont stop being idiots no matter what...

[ksehsatoo]

How is in my fault I wanna leave the doomed group that has Johnny the jolly Demon Hunter in the group that never does a single dodge/mechanic in my +12 Court of Stars on my Shaman healer alt that needs to push RIO. In order to get into15s and get better loot and vault? Its wasting my time and I love to just leave and find a group more suited to my level.

p.s. happened.

[Lolites]

Would make wonders for the pug scene.

definitely, it would make it FAR WORSE for players with IQ above room temperature...

[kamuimac]

It's far from that, people are just assholes.
I did a +12 on my alt pala yesterday, was late and no healers really signed so took the first one.
He let the rogue die a couple times but we didn't have any wipes. Just before 3rd boss he just goes afk (we're still gonna time it). We finish trash and thinking he maybe DC.
Doesn't come back, we 4man the boss, still just afk's.
We do last boss and wipe at 5% with 1 min left on timer.

Had he just not afk'ed? We would almost 2 chest it. Instead? We failed the key...

I also think if you cant dedicate 30 min win or lose on a run? You just shouldn't do it.
They really need to punish you for leaving before the timer ends. Make it unable to queue for 1 hour.
Would make wonders for the pug scene.

ye well you can only blame yourself for it then.

you dont get good players late at night. good players sleep then .

never do m+ high keys past midnight. or before like 17:00 .

[Lolites]

Or get this… either you’ve been the first to leave or you’ve never done lower keys. In my experience (Healer) people doing dumb shit, constantly dying and wiping the group, are the first to leave.

jeez, with that attitude i wonder why people leave your groups...

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if you decided to join a group and you are ok with the group than you should stick to it.

i dont leave groups usualy, did it like half a dozen times since legion, but this is some BULLSHIT

ill give you example, that actualy happened to me: i made a group, invited people with slightly better gear than mine, and much better score, by the time we killed first boss half our time was gone, me and tank were only ones with interupts, tanks was second in DPS (with actualy pretty good numbers) after me while i did more than tank and any of the two dps put together (and i play frost dk with obliteration, so my spec is far from "best" or OP)...
WHY ON EARTH should i stick for another 30-40 minutes to help them finished the dungeon they are clearly not capable of doing? tank actualy had the same idea bcs he left first but i would leave if not him...

It's funny to me that people that don't have issues with leavers are against it

its bcs we are capable of seeing consequences for people who dont deserve them, people who would deserve the consequences are usualy those for it as they wouldnt get punished - they would get carried throuhg keys they DONT DESERVE, so why not force people into helping them, right?
you wanna get carried? buy boost, plenty sellers around

Some people are super toxic can leave after the tiniest error and they mess up your key even tho it would have been timed.

sure, but making the environemtn MORE TOXIC wont help that...
can you imagine the toxicity in group where one idiot is getting carried and 4 people know they just waste their time bcs of this idiot who shouldnt even be there? and even worse if they finish it and he gets the loot while people who carried him dont?
yeah, that would definitely make "toxic free" environment... /s

[Anzen]

I don't understand how there are no repercussions if someone leaves the M+ group (for various reasons) and messes up someone else's key.

In PvP if you leave nobody loses anything else but time and your spot can be replaced by someone else and you still get deserter, in M+ nothing.

Literally, nobody is trying in M+ anymore because they don't have to. If people would get a 30 minutes deserter for leaving an M+ group, people would try harder to finish a key even if it will be depleted or barely in time.

Is it just me, or?

I think the current system is fine, you are trying to polarize a very grey issue.

What if on tyrannical week, with bloodlust, cooldowns, etc, a group can't kill the boss (looking at your Overgrown Ancient)?

What if Joe Bloggs only has the dugeon untimed at the same difficulty, and is solely there to raise his IO score from getting a timed run, but it looks obvious that the run won't be timed because of a 15k DPS rogue, 3 wipes and 5 and a half minute first boss kill time?

Or if a melee dps dies to a frontal cleave on the first pack of mobs, and then the second, and then the third?

At least in PvP the instance always ends in one set of players winning. Some M+ runs will be outright impossible for some groups.

Whenever I drop a group as a healer (not often but happens every now and then), I nearly always get whispered abuse, but I'm not bound to carry strangers by sole virtue that I joined a random group twenty minutes prior.

[Lolites]

And in a world where a**holes are predominant, it makes sense.

i say it often, but ill say it again - i met very few toxic groups or players over the 18 years i play, if you feel like you constantly encounter toxicity ingame YOU might be the issue...
also, if you have some experience, which you seem to lack, you know when they key is lost, and i mean not in sense it will be 2m after time, but in a sense that its IMPOSSIBLE to finish with the group even if it took 100 attempts on each boss, so why on earth waste your time there?
i do it very seldom, as i said before, but in some cases that IS THE SOLUTION

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Tyrannical applies to all key levels.

yes but on lower keys it pretty much just makes the boss fight longer, not much of a difference untill you reach the high keys

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If people sign up for content they're not ready for, is it my responsibility to coach them through it? What if I have limited playtime? Time enough for one or two dungeons before work?

I'm asking this as someone who will coach people through fuck-ups.

pretty much this, if i see we wipe bcs people dont know how to deal with some ability ill try to tell them, if we wipe bcs they do the same stupid bullshit 1287625th time, after being told what to do, or if boss enrages while on 80% due to groups shitty dps, what else is the solution than leaving...

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Only people disagreeing with this are the chronic leavers, and they know they would be most affected.

nope, people disagreeing are people smart enough to understand all consequences, with your name i can see why thats issue...

[Ludek]

Yes I am aware but there’s no way that ‘bosses hit too hard on tyrannical’ can be a factor until you’re reaching those 20+ keys. If your group is dying to tyrannical bosses anywhere in the +2-+17 key then that’s player fault. Removing the affix is overkill.

It is not an overkill - we already have those affixes built in in the form of scaling. So they could just remove them and increase the scaling - main goal here is not to have so much inbalance between alternating weeks.
Remember that Fortified and Tyranical were the OG +10 affixes back in Legion. We in fact already got a decent replacement for them on that spot with seasonal affixes.

And while yes, dying due to not meeting checks in tyranical +2-17 is in most cases players fault, we are talking here strictly about M+ leavers, and most of them happen in the tyranical weeks, because tyranical weeks are that much harder for a PUG to clear.