Leaving M+ group should give you DESERTER

[Zardas]

You mean the mount that anyone serious about M+ is attained week 2 ? Some flex ...

So the m+ should only target and be made for those "serious about m+" ?

And let me quote again the one I responded to :

"I think Zardas has exposed himself as never setting foot inside any mythic dungeon it seems."

Can you get KSM without ever setting foot inside any mythic dungeon or not ?

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Last time I talked to someone what they were doing wrong they insisted that I help interrupting so it doesn't happen. This was on mistcaller's patty cake. I left that group after the tank got hit again and went off at me for not interrupting it.

Well again I have a vastly different experience, guess it comes down to how to you act with those around you

[Azharok]

So the m+ should only target and be made for those "serious about m+" ?

And let me quote again the one I responded to :

"I think Zardas has exposed himself as never setting foot inside any mythic dungeon it seems."

Can you get KSM without ever setting foot inside any mythic dungeon or not ?

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Well again I have a vastly different experience, guess it comes down to how to you act with those around you

You can get KSM getting carried by the 4 other people in the group is the point i'm trying to make.

M+ is for everyone, that's why there's +2,+3,+4,+5 etc +30s.

And it still doesnt make dying to Mari in a 17 acceptable, KSH is all 18s (give or take). So either we're arguing other teeny tiny keys, where nothing matters, nothing hurts and good players will just carry the key or leave if it's a complete shitshow, or we're arguing over higher keys (15s and up) where you SHOULD know what to do and what to avoid and everyone should be pulling their weight. I'd expect a hunter in HoV15+ to trap spirits on trash before Skovald without asking him to do it.

Gear to clear 10s isn't hard to come by.

[Anzen]

I don't know man, pretty sure my KSM mounts says otherwise.

Oh Christ...

[potis]

Well again I have a vastly different experience, guess it comes down to how to you act with those around you

Cause if you say it in any way, the mob ability will change, the angels will descent from heaven, Buddha will spawn and Odin will send his crows in the game coding to change how the ability works so that completely useless tank that doesnt know the game and keeps saying stupid shit will somehow be correct.

You are obviously either getting KSM on the seasons that its free, but getting carried and taking months to do so and not by choice, any serious players understands that you are either trolling, or you are simply reflecting on things you did, therefor try to defend the undefendable or find an excuse.

Its an 18 year old game, i am not gonna comment on the Normal dungeon leveling full of noobs.

I am not gonna comment on the HC dungeon i am soloing cause it popped a tank bag.

I am not gonna comment on LFR, unless i am reading stupid as fuck misinformation.

But on any M+ you sure as hell dont get an opinion if you dont know the basics and you are sprouting dumb shit or because you saw MDI doing something, you think you can do it also, you are getting flamed.

[Zardas]

You can get KSM getting carried by the 4 other people in the group is the point i'm trying to make.

And the point I'm trying to make is that this Anzen is factually incorrect.

M+ is for everyone, that's why there's +2,+3,+4,+5 etc +30s.

And it still doesnt make dying to Mari in a 17 acceptable, KSH is all 18s (give or take). So either we're arguing other teeny tiny keys, where nothing matters, nothing hurts and good players will just carry the key or leave if it's a complete shitshow, or we're arguing over higher keys (15s and up) where you SHOULD know what to do and what to avoid and everyone should be pulling their weight. I'd expect a hunter in HoV15+ to trap spirits on trash before Skovald without asking him to do it.

Gear to clear 10s isn't hard to come by.

That's some ignorant elistic takes right here, you don't always have "good players carrying keys". From my experience, there is sometimes a dps that's a bit behind but most people do their fair share of the job, and one of them quitting is way enough to ruin the key and the experience of others, and this applies to every level of keys (of course that's a bit less true in the end of a season).

Oh Christ...

Can you get KSM without "ever setting foot in a dungeon" or can you not ?

[Gorsameth]

M+ doesn't need a deserter penalty any more then non-lfr raids do. By its very design it is not pug content. Yes you can pug it and a lot of people do, but it is not designed for that. That is also why its not on the LFD tool.

Its not Blizzards fault that your doing content designed for premade groups with people you do not know who have no reason to stick around when your being terrible.

[Zardas]

Cause if you say it in any way, the mob ability will change, the angels will descent from heaven, Buddha will spawn and Odin will send his crows in the game coding to change how the ability works so that completely useless tank that doesnt know the game and keeps saying stupid shit will somehow be correct.

Damn, that's sad to read, so much bitterness. Doesn't really surprise me that people like you leave key if they have this mentality.

You are obviously either getting KSM on the seasons that its free, but getting carried and taking months to do so and not by choice, any serious players understands that you are either trolling, or you are simply reflecting on things you did, therefor try to defend the undefendable or find an excuse.

Sorry to pop your bubble, but I'm getting KSM mostly through pugs, by never leaving, and being generally top dps (or at least definitely doing my part). But of course you're gonna deflect that because it doesn't fit your narrative and you can't accept that people don't act like assholes ?

Its an 18 year old game, i am not gonna comment on the Normal dungeon leveling full of noobs.

I am not gonna comment on the HC dungeon i am soloing cause it popped a tank bag.

I am not gonna comment on LFR, unless i am reading stupid as fuck misinformation.

But on any M+ you sure as hell dont get an opinion if you dont know the basics and you are sprouting dumb shit or because you saw MDI doing something, you think you can do it also, you are getting flamed.

Something something elitist bs something something

[Azharok]

And the point I'm trying to make is that this Anzen is factually incorrect.

Big win there ! You tell him !

That's some ignorant elistic takes right here, you don't always have "good players carrying keys". From my experience, there is sometimes a dps that's a bit behind but most people do their fair share of the job, and one of them quitting is way enough to ruin the key and the experience of others, and this applies to every level of keys (of course that's a bit less true in the end of a season).
Can you get KSM without "ever setting foot in a dungeon" or can you not ?

It matters more and more at higher key levels, but you can pull dead weight pretty high io wise. Boosting communities are selling timed 20s, so they are 4 manning what is currently impossible to time for 99% of the playerbase with 5 people.

[Anzen]

And the point I'm trying to make is that this Anzen is factually incorrect.
...
Can you get KSM without "ever setting foot in a dungeon" or can you not ?

Please stop, it's embarrassing.

If you think the way to counter my suggestion that you don't know what you're talking about, is "pretty sure my KSM mounts says otherwise", then 'you dun goofed'.

It is apparent to any half decent player on this forum that you don't know what you're talking about. I don't need to point this out, you're making it obvious all on your own.

any serious players understands that you are either trolling, or you are simply reflecting on things you did, therefor try to defend the undefendable or find an excuse.

I think potis sums up views also.

Your comments like:

What I'm saying is that this "failure" is not a big deal, definitely less at least than someone leaving the key

just make you look daft.

[Eazy]

Stop expecting people to stick around to carry you through a dungeon in pugs.

First and the best comment.

Once again people are trying to force people to carry them in dungeons.

[Zardas]

Please stop, it's embarrassing.

Bro, you're the one judging people withouth knowing anything about them. Again, you're factually, that's indeniable.

Your comments like: "What I'm saying is that this 'failure' is not a big deal, definitely less at least than someone leaving the key" just make you look daft.

What bother you more : a key not being timed or someone leaving the key out of spit ? If your answer is the first one, I highly suggets you to find a new game, because you seems to take it way to seriously.

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It matters more and more at higher key levels, but you can pull dead weight pretty high io wise. Boosting communities are selling timed 20s, so they are 4 manning what is currently impossible to time for 99% of the playerbase with 5 people.

Yup as you said : for 99% of the playerbase the m+ experience means everyone doing his part, not one person carrying the group.

And of course that 99% of the playerbase that does m+, which is what ? Maybe 10% of the overall playerbase ?

[Zig Zug]

I've played probably 10s of thousands of key since Legion and I've seen people leave over the most stupidest of things a handful of times.

Bhahahahahahahahhaha

[potis]

Sorry to pop your bubble, but I'm getting KSM mostly through pugs, by never leaving, and being generally top dps (or at least definitely doing my part). But of course you're gonna deflect that because it doesn't fit your narrative and you can't accept that people don't act like assholes ?

It doesnt surprise me that you missed the part that i rarely ever pug, and when i do i dont talk cause people are gonna be terrible either way.

But you again, try to defend the undefendable.

No, just because you got the KSM mount it doesnt mean shit to me, the same way i mock my IRL friends that played 200 hours to get the mount the first 3 weeks in SL, and i played 20 hours in 5 weeks to get it, the same way i mock anyone that does the same, or the same way i see people with 400 runs?? getting it with maximum ilvl gear the last couple of months of the patch.

It is not the same, same as Limit killing the boss the first week, isnt the same as the 500 Cutting edge guild that killed it with 30% nerfs on it.

[DechCJC]

What if the group just holds you hostage then? They refuse to progress the key and if you leave you lose rating; sounds pretty toxic. Isn’t the same as solo shuffle where it’s guaranteed to end.

[Anzen]

you're factually, that's indeniable.

Well consider me roasted.

What bother you more : a key not being timed or someone leaving the key out of spit ? If your answer is the first one, I highly suggets you to find a new game, because you seems to take it way to seriously.

You're now desperately trying to create a strawman to make it easier to defend your indefensible point.

Most of the people on this thread are explicitly talking about runs that are 'doomed to fail/be untimed' due to bad players.

Trying to distort this into people that 'leave for the sake of it' to make it easier to argue against is bad form.

I'm not sure why I need to find a new game. It takes me one second to leave a group with a numpty or two in it, and maybe five minutes to join a new group. In most cases the new one would finish before the old one would have if it had been continued. I'm quite chill about the whole thing, it's not that deep.

[Azharok]

Yup as you said : for 99% of the playerbase the m+ experience means everyone doing his part, not one person carrying the group.

I didn't say one person carrying I said 4. You can get KSM (which you seem to hold in high regards) by being AFK in a key with 4 people playing normally :

- kicking important spells
- not dying to mechanics
- providing adequate dps

The bar for KSM is actually very low, you can die a bunch of times in keys and still time them (cept HoV and AV but fuck those dungeons). You're making it sound like "one death = instant leave" when most of the time it's closer to "Mythic Andy just died to this frontal, runs back from GY, dies again to frontal, runs back, dies a third time, flames healer or tank just because and then drops group."

[thunderdragon2]

I expect a dungeon to be timed, if I am only in for the score. And if "perfection" is required to time it, I will expect perfection or leave.

then i highly recommend using your own key anything can go wrong in a key people need to learn to accept mistakes happen and if something isn't timed well it happens.

i wouldn't be surprised if you were one of the ones raging last night when blizzard started disbanding groups out of the blue raid and dungeon alike

[Zardas]

It doesnt surprise me that you missed the part that i rarely ever pug, and when i do i dont talk cause people are gonna be terrible either way.

Well, again I have a vastly different experience Mr Bitterness.

No, just because you got the KSM mount it doesnt mean shit to me, the same way i mock my IRL friends that played 200 hours to get the mount the first 3 weeks in SL, and i played 20 hours in 5 weeks to get it, the same way i mock anyone that does the same, or the same way i see people with 400 runs?? getting it with maximum ilvl gear the last couple of months of the patch.

It is not the same, same as Limit killing the boss the first week, isnt the same as the 500 Cutting edge guild that killed it with 30% nerfs on it.

Not sure what's your point here ? Did I ever said anything about getting KSM meaning anything (other that the fact that I did, indeed, set foot in a dungeon) ?

[reemi]

Well...

We should just be able to do Mythic + without any key.

I NEVER used my key since Mythic+ exist, I always joined another group.

[chiddie]

M+ doesn't need a deserter penalty any more then non-lfr raids do. By its very design it is not pug content. Yes you can pug it and a lot of people do, but it is not designed for that. That is also why its not on the LFD tool.

Its not Blizzards fault that your doing content designed for premade groups with people you do not know who have no reason to stick around when your being terrible.

This.

Unluckily enough, though, M+ is the only way solo players not interested in PvP have to improve their character power.

If there were other solo sources, M+ PUG scene would be a desert within a weekly reset.