Leaving M+ group should give you DESERTER

[Zardas]

Well consider me roasted.

I sure do.

Most of the people on this thread are explicitly talking about runs that are 'doomed to fail/be untimed' due to bad players.

What's wrong with a run that will fail or be untimed ? You know that the goal of this game is to have fun right ? Something that you get whever you time/clean it or not (but not when someone abandon the group).

I'm not sure why I need to find a new game. It takes me one second to leave a group with a numpty or two in it, and maybe five minutes to join a new group. In most cases the new one would finish before the old one would have if it had been continued. I'm quite chill about the whole thing, it's not that deep.

As expected, you're only thinking about yourself, not about the rest of the group you're leaving.

I didn't say one person carrying I said 4. You can get KSM (which you seem to hold in high regards) by being AFK in a key with 4 people playing normally :

- kicking important spells
- not dying to mechanics
- providing adequate dps

That's absolutely wrong : as I said most the runs are 5 players doing their fair share of the job. If you complete keys by doing almost nothing, you are either playing by way above average players, or got a way above your level gear.

[Mace]

Stop expecting people to stick around to carry you through a dungeon in pugs.

Harsh man, harsh

[SinR]

Stop expecting people to stick around to carry you through a dungeon in pugs.

That's some pure grade A projection

[lllll]

What's wrong with a run that will fail or be untimed ? You know that the goal of this game is to have fun right ? Something that you get whever you time/clean it or not (but not when someone abandon the group).

My friend did a "no leaver weekly" for nokhud the first week, it took them 2 hours to beat the raging tempest and then they couldn't beat the third boss and they all gave up after 3 hours in there.

If this is your idea of fun, sure, go ahead and play no leaver runs but I'm not going to sit in an instance for hours just because people suck.

[Azharok]

I sure do.



What's wrong with a run that will fail or be untimed ? You know that the goal of this game is to have fun right ? Something that you get whever you time/clean it or not (but not when someone abandon the group).



As expected, you're only thinking about yourself, not about the rest of the group you're leaving.



That's absolutely wrong : as I said most the runs are 5 players doing their fair share of the job. If you complete keys by doing almost nothing, you are either playing by way above average players, or got a way above your level gear.

Not one player does a their fair share of the job, there's always a top dps and a last dps.

Just because you think it's not possible doesn't mean it isn't. You think you can time a 9 with a 337
rdrood?

edit : https://raider.io/mythic-plus-runs/s...khud-offensive here's the run, Rdrood is actually 330, and omg what is that 13 DEATHS ? How did we time this ?

And again AA16 arcane mage 400ilvl or somth did 44k overall

https://raider.io/mythic-plus-runs/s...gethar-academy 16 deaths btw... man we must suck at this game.

I'm not linking this to out the mage, he was super chill, and we had fun timing the key with him.

[Lolites]

Because you're screwing with someone else's key. Why are you forcing me to not finish my key by leaving, since I can't finish it when someone leaves. Also, I'm not saying that people shouldn't be able to leave, I just say that I want it to be tracked so that I know who I'm inviting into my groups.

unless its tracked with WHY person left its pointless... someone doing 5k overall dps in +15 wont leave first, so someone else will be punished, yet he is the person who shouldnt be there...
problem is whatever punishment people came up with it completely ignores WHY someone left, when from all (quite few) leavers i encountered over the years most were not without good reason...

[Anzen]

I sure do.

Then I think you maybe need to go back and re-read what you said.

What's wrong with a run that will fail or be untimed ? You know that the goal of this game is to have fun right ? Something that you get whever you time/clean it or not (but not when someone abandon the group).

You're right and I can't think of anything that screams fun more than spending the night wiping on Mari because the DPS can't avoid the beam.

We agree on one thing though - the reason to play a game is to have fun. And maybe I'm a bit quirky, but I find it far more enjoyable being in runs that can clear the dungeon, than staying in ones that can't.

As expected, you're only thinking about yourself, not about the rest of the group you're leaving.

You may think it is selfish leaving a bad group, I'd counter that it is selfish joining a group not knowing basic mechanics and expecting to be carried.

Plus in many cases I'd bet if I hadn't left, someone else would have soon after. Excluding you, most people don't have all night to spend waiting for a total stranger to learn and master the mechanics of a boss.

[Lolites]

Because you're screwing with someone else's key.

if i enter a dungeon, and after reaching first boss 2 dps do less dmg together than tank, have dozen deaths for standing in shit each, and zero interupts, and i decide to leave, who is really screwing with someones key, me, or those two whou shouldnt even be there bcs its WELL beyond their skill?

thats the thing, if the "punishment" always hits the first person leaving, its not adressing the issue...

[Anzen]

unless its tracked with WHY person left its pointless... someone doing 5k overall dps in +15 wont leave first, so someone else will be punished, yet he is the person who shouldnt be there...
problem is whatever punishment people came up with it completely ignores WHY someone left, when from all (quite few) leavers i encountered over the years most were not without good reason...

Really this post should be case closed on the topic of this thread.

Someone who has managed to defy the odds and get into a high level key that they have no business being in, isn't going to be leaving for love nor money.

There's no benefit to someone for joining, waiting around and then leaving for no reason.

[Zardas]

My friend did a "no leaver weekly" for nokhud the first week, it took them 2 hours to beat the raging tempest and then they couldn't beat the third boss and they all gave up after 3 hours in there.

If this is your idea of fun, sure, go ahead and play no leaver runs but I'm not going to sit in an instance for hours just because people suck.

Well, my best experiences in mmorpgs are tryharding for days on raid bosses, improving pulls after pulls, so it definitely seems like a fun thing indeed. At least way more than just crushing every key withouth saying a word in some graveyard ambiance.

Not one player does a their fair share of the job, there's always a top dps and a last dps.

Obviously but does it means that the last dps doesn't do his fair share of the job ?

Just because you think it's not possible doesn't mean it isn't. You think you can time a 9 with a 337 rdrood?

And again AA16 arcane mage 400ilvl or somth did 44k overall

I haven't tried m+ with that little ilvl, but I think that it's almost impossible with people of a level adequate for +9 (aka way less than 400ilvl of course).

You're right and I can't think of anything that screams fun more than spending the night wiping on Mari because the DPS can't avoid the beam.

We agree on one thing though - the reason to play a game is to have fun. And maybe I'm a bit quirky, but I find it far more enjoyable being in runs that can clear the dungeon, than staying in ones that can't.

Yup, definitely different visions of fun, my best experiences in mmorpgs are wiping again and again and seeing people improve over time. But if you've never experience this, I guess that I understand your bitterness more.

You may think it is selfish leaving a bad group, I'd counter that it is selfish joining a group not knowing basic mechanics and expecting to be carried.

Oh on that we definitely agree. However, I would say that people failing mechanics and/or not providing enough dps is generally far from them wanting to be carried, and just them not be very good players. I guess that's where we disagree.

[Eli85]

No. People shouldn't be punished because they bailed out of a group that misled them in their listing (eg., the group is low performing, and not at all good enough to time the key, or even finish in a reasonable amount of time.) This is to say nothing of other legitimate reasons for leaving a group.

Forcing, or compelling, people to stay in a group that they no longer want to be in will not lead to positive results.

[Lolites]

I didn't sign up to carry people. With any luck, the inconvenience will prompt them to do better next time. Biting your tongue and carrying them ultimately enables their bad performance.

hundreds time this, carrying morons will only get them gear and perhaps even rating they shouldnt have, making them able to screw up more groups...

- - - Updated - - -

Harsh man, harsh

but fair, if you suck people shouldnt be bullied by some punishment into carrying you for free ...

[Forum Action]

Really this post should be case closed on the topic of this thread.

Someone who has managed to defy the odds and get into a high level key that they have no business being in, isn't going to be leaving for love nor money.

There's no benefit to someone for joining, waiting around and then leaving for no reason.

Problem is these people are the most dishonest of any group. I've seen tanks yell at hunters for themselves not picking up aggro. Ive seen healers over move and not cast enough for the group to survive.

It is very rare those causing the issues are the ones owning up to them they just invent reasons for other people failing them.

[thunderdragon2]

Problem is these people are the most dishonest of any group. I've seen tanks yell at hunters for themselves not picking up aggro. Ive seen healers over move and not cast enough for the group to survive.

It is very rare those causing the issues are the ones owning up to them they just invent reasons for other people failing them.

well do you wana know something misdirect isnt taken in the bm m+ builds so...yeh

was doing my nokhud 7 had 2 enh shammies a evoker a prot war and restro druid trash wiped us a few times due to over lapping interrupts its a pug so i expect that still we get to 95% trash count and a are about to pull 3rd boss other shaman leaves we 4 man 3rd boss and then healer leaves.....cant report the shaman coz i cant find his name....

[Forum Action]

well do you wana know something misdirect isnt taken in the bm m+ builds so...yeh

Bm also isn't taken into high keys unless its absurdly geared to... but you get the gist of what im saying. These threads about leaves always give the vibe of being in the +5-10 range and to be fair to them at that level you can wipe a half dozen times and still time a key so I can kind of get their perspective.

It would just make higher keys a nightmare.

[thunderdragon2]

Bm also isn't taken into high keys unless its absurdly geared to... but you get the gist of what im saying. These threads about leaves always give the vibe of being in the +5-10 range and to be fair to them at that level you can wipe a half dozen times and still time a key so I can kind of get their perspective.

It would just make higher keys a nightmare.

ive not looked into mm builds as i dont enjoy it but i dont think mm takes it either

[Forum Action]

ive not looked into mm builds as i dont enjoy it but i dont think mm takes it either

In mythic plus it does. To really effectively aoe its more a speed bump talent along with binding shot and black arrow. Unless you have the bow from the last boss 4pc and advantagous trinkets odds are you will get more out of MM.

BM has rather absurd stat breaks to really take off this tier.

[sponge5307]

Blizzard just added consequences for leaving Solo Shuffle matches.

How is that different from M+?

You leave M+ before the dungeon ended? -100 rating each time you bail.
Repeated offenses? Account suspension.

I think for low keys, sure. For any keys higher than a +20 now. Coz at that point, people only want to improve their score and most people who do high keys know this so is normal just to bail if they aren't going to time it.

[Relapses]

I love these threads. Page after page of players insulting one another and threatening to ruin each other's hypothetical keys followed by some of the worst possible suggestions imaginable. Every one of them would ultimately solve nothing and simply make the already-terrible situation even worse. The level of entitlement some players have in this game is truly mind-boggling.

It boils down to this: The system isn't broken. Stop trying to fix it.

[Azharok]

I haven't tried m+ with that little ilvl, but I think that it's almost impossible with people of a level adequate for +9 (aka way less than 400ilvl of course).

I edited my post after you posted yours. I'll link it again here :

https://raider.io/mythic-plus-runs/s...khud-offensive

Average group ilvl 367, Rdrood ilvl 330. 13 Deaths and somehow we still managed to time it.

For any given key level whatever you think the required ilvl is, subtract 20 from it. Just because you can't do it, doesnt mean others can't.