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  1. #21
    Sounds easy but unfortunatly even very good Players can have Bad Logs nowadays unless youre full geared +4 set + bis Trinkets. I do not want to say i am the best Player or do Not make mistakes,but outdpsing 5-10 gs higher ppl easily in raids not even having Tier Pieces and still average Logs (50-60), but 99 Logs in ilvl% which is uninteressing for most ppl.

  2. #22
    It sounds like you are facing some challenges while trying to raid with a pickup group in World of Warcraft, specifically with the encounter against RazzaGath in Hard Mode and Mythic. The difficulties you mentioned regarding the setup and talent trees seem to be significant roadblocks for you and your group, as well as for other players. The high DPS checks for the encounter and the discrepancy between the different talent builds are causing frustration and making the encounter difficult to complete.

    However, it's worth noting that gear level does play a significant role in raid progression. As your gear level increases, the difficulty of the encounter will be reduced. So while you may need a 410 ilvl raid to defeat the boss, the higher gear level will make it easier for your group to complete the encounter. Additionally, practicing the encounter, learning strategies, and improving coordination with your group can also help.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Spoonman View Post
    Hey all

    Ive been doing a lot of pugs this raid and this boss seem to be insanely overtuned compared to everything else or there must be something im missing

    Im at 7/8 HC and have managed to pug 2/8 in Mythic. All of this have been done with a raid with highest ilvl of 405

    However with a 405 ilvl raid I still dont have a chance on Raszageth HC

    There are 2 major problems,

    1. The setup

    The encounter have tough dps checks and because of this it seem difficult to go as a healer heavy setup but if u dont go healer heavy then healers doesnt have a chance to heal this at all.

    I still have no idea what exactly is the perfect setup for this as everything ive tried feels awful

    2. The talent trees

    Because of the new talent tree system seperating aoe spells/abilities and single target ones creating huge difference in builds then some players tend to go with ST build on this boss and some player tend to use AoE builds.

    The problem is that if not everyone is AoE speced u dont make Phase 2 dps check and if everyone isnt ST speced u dont make phase 1 and phase 4 DPS Checks.

    With that said, every encounter ive pugged have been completed by 1 thing. Gear
    With a high enough ilvl bosses eventualy falls over by themselves but I just cant belive that it would require a 410 ilvl raid to defeat this?
    Rasz is the hardest fight in the instance for sure. It is a definite step up from everything before. But overtuned? Nah.

    You do not really need to worry about a perfect setup. Every class can do this. Better to go by skill then by class.

    Wowhead has Talent builds for every class and boss encounter. But of course you can make your own. In general you want single target damage and all the survivability you can find in your tree. There are only two points where an aoe build will help and then the classes with passive cleave will be enough, no need to forego ST damage for aoe here. If it is truely a problem then you can designate one or two people (one per group) to spec into high aoe damage.

    A few hints (healer perspective):

    Phase 1:
    A very tough healing check. the exploding circles deal a metric shitton of damage to the raid so they need to be mitigated as much as possible.

    People should use defensives whenever they can and healers need to make sure that people are topped off before the bombs go off, usually the explosion deals between 70% to 90% damage to everyone, so even a slightly lower health percentage might kill a player. Having Anti-Magic Zone or Barrier will also help a ton.

    People with bombs should run to the edge while everyone else stacks close to Rasz to reduce the proximity based damage at least a bit.

    Healers should freely spend Raid CDs here, they will be back for Phase 2 when needed again. That will also save a lot of mana.

    The higher the DPS here, the fewer bombs you have to heal through, so it is good to have.

    Intermission 1:

    Really nothing special here. Use it to recover as much Mana as possible, dodge the dragon, interrupt adds.

    Phase 2:

    Save big Raid CDs for the Surge Phases.

    This Phase is very much a DPS check. A single shield not broken means a wipe. People need to quickly see which polarity they have, gather and then blast the dragon with all they have. Except TW/Hero.

    There are pretty high healing checks here too (Waves and Circles) with only short times to really heal up the raid. We had 4 healers and all were usually at 40-50k hps with one generally hitting 70k so about 200k -220k should be reached.

    Intermission 2:

    This one is all about controlling the little adds when they spawn. Druids Vortex, Ring of Peace or similar things are immensely helpful. High DPS will reduce the amount of add spawns you have to deal with. We usually had 1-2 then the big adds died.

    Watch out for Rasz again, she does the same flyby as in Intermission 1. The annoying part is that she may do it at the same time as an add spawn, so being prepared for that is important.

    Phase 3:

    The final burn phase. Make sure you have all CDs at the start here. Pop Hero and slay the Dragon. Damage is relatively low if mechanics are avoided correctly. Bring the the pull circle under Rasz, never stand with the Tanks and hit the DPS buttons.

    If the area becomes too small it is worth having people with the big circles walk out and die. Better then having the entire raid hit by the circle.

    It is a pretty tight dps race here. Use everything you have, use defensives and potions to allow the healers to contribute some damage too.

  4. #24
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    offtop: Raszageth's abilities lokks like Atramed's

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by jamespark View Post
    It sounds like you are facing some challenges while trying to raid with a pickup group in World of Warcraft, specifically with the encounter against RazzaGath in Hard Mode and Mythic. The difficulties you mentioned regarding the setup and talent trees seem to be significant roadblocks for you and your group, as well as for other players. The high DPS checks for the encounter and the discrepancy between the different talent builds are causing frustration and making the encounter difficult to complete.
    Sorry, bit this sounds like the most AI-generated response I've ever seen in my life.

    I've heard recently that people are using AI's (e.g. ChatGPT) to produce things like essays, but I hadn't realised it had extended to responding to forum posts on MMOC.

    Beep boop James Park.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by brynhildrprot View Post
    I am not gonna lie I giga lucked out on both Broodkeeper and Rasz kills.

    One shot both of them on heroic because I had high M+ io and people assumed I knew what I was doing, I did not.

    Have since been just running 7/8HC 2/8M runs for the loot since rasz doesnt offer any upgrades for me.

    So, idk what advice to offer to you? Get 415ilvl and 3k rio, get Lucky and get invited into a guild grp one shot?
    No need to go to the hassle of getting 415ilvl if you want 3k IO. Just roll a prot warrior and get some world quest gear (learning to play the class is optional).

    I'm joking, I'm joking!
    (is it a joke though?)
    Last edited by Anzen; 2023-02-09 at 11:17 AM.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Throwme View Post
    And the other thing that can be hard to get with a pug: Skill.

    That's what you need. Simple as that. No need for further discussion back and forth, because those two things are what it boils down to. The gear required for the kill to even be possible and the skills required to actually get it done.
    'Skill' is not a thing. Skill is like 10% awareness (which is a natural born thing), 20% being prepared (knowing mechanics, looking up guides etc) and 70% practice. The practice part is the issue in pugs, because you don't practice with the same setup.

  7. #27
    Are pugs having a hard time with this? All Raz pugs ive joined since release have 1 or 2 shotted Raz. This has been one of the most pug friendly raids we've had for hc imo

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilookfly View Post
    Are pugs having a hard time with this? All Raz pugs ive joined since release have 1 or 2 shotted Raz. This has been one of the most pug friendly raids we've had for hc imo
    Love responses like this.

    "I'm struggling with X boss"
    "Don't worry, it's easy."

    As the OP does not have curve, I expect they don't get to enjoy the "EZ 1 SHOT, 415+ ILVL PUMPERS ONLY" groups you seem to be spoiled by.

    I think we can both agree that one shotting the end boss on heroic in a pug within the first couple months of release is not the typical experience of the typical group.

  9. #29
    This is of course a bit off-topic and not really what you've asked for, but the key is to farm 80k gold and pay for a rasz hc carry (or 320k for a full raid run). So much easier to come by than having to deal with the most brain dead gaming community of all time. Or just join a guild.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertMugabe View Post
    This is of course a bit off-topic and not really what you've asked for, but the key is to farm 80k gold and pay for a rasz hc carry (or 320k for a full raid run). So much easier to come by than having to deal with the most brain dead gaming community of all time. Or just join a guild.
    Are we allowed to say that?

    For sure the quickest and easiest way to get curve.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Spoonman View Post
    But there is nothing diffuclt mechanic wise? The fight is basicly just about failing dps checks in different phases?

    There must be some setup that feels better than others and a ratio of how many of the DPS specs are ST specced and how many are AoE speced etc?

    Phase 1 not making it to 65% before 2nd spark + pushback combo = wipe (you wipe on this when there are too many people aoe speced)
    Phase 2, not clearing platforms before stormsurge = wipe (you wipe on this when there are too many people ST speced)
    Phase 3, not DPSing thru stormsurge = wipe (you wipe on this when there are too many people aoe speced)
    Phase 4, not enough DPS to kill it before room ends = wipe (you wipe on this when there are too many people aoe speced)

    If it was possible to change talents mid fight or if we had the old talent system this would be extremely easy
    I haven't pugged.. but the issues my guild had with HC raz were people not getting rid of the sparks and the breath being both bigger than it looks and delayed from the actual beam she shoots out of her mouth so they though it passed and ran back in early.

    Basically we had to have the tanks call out when to move on their respective sides because our healers would be tunnel visioning to keep people alive. Sparks we ended up switching from a peot war to a blood dk and those take out like 50% of the orbs alone.. lol. Our biggest issue by far was people getting hit by the breath during the storm elemental adds. They would run out late or not see which way the breath was going. Obviously the dps check is a thing too but that wasn't really an issue for us if people didn't die.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Loveliest View Post
    'Skill' is not a thing. Skill is like 10% awareness, 20% being prepared and 70% practice.
    I am glad we can agree on things, even though I only described the "thing" with one word and you used many more

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Anzen View Post
    Love responses like this.

    "I'm struggling with X boss"
    "Don't worry, it's easy."

    As the OP does not have curve, I expect they don't get to enjoy the "EZ 1 SHOT, 415+ ILVL PUMPERS ONLY" groups you seem to be spoiled by.

    I think we can both agree that one shotting the end boss on heroic in a pug within the first couple months of release is not the typical experience of the typical group.
    Thats what I said tho. This raid is the first one in a while where mechanics are such that you can tell what needs to be done by just taking in information from what is happening on the screen. Compare Raz to Sire as an example.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Loveliest View Post
    'Skill' is not a thing. Skill is like 10% awareness (which is a natural born thing), 20% being prepared (knowing mechanics, looking up guides etc) and 70% practice. The practice part is the issue in pugs, because you don't practice with the same setup.
    So skill is a thing, it consists of three categories.

    You're missing a huge factor, knowledge which is different from "being prepared". Most people are clueless about how their class should deal with mechanics. The number of players who have 0 foresight for using defensive cooldowns BEFORE THE DAMAGE OCCURS is way too damn high. I swear these people get to 5% hp and pop their defensives and then complain about NO HEALS!!!

    News flash popping damage reduction after the damage occurs does absolutely nothing, thanks for coming to my ted talk.


    Rasz is easily 10x harder than any other boss in this raid. It requires a good raid lead to ensure a single player doesnt screw up (by talking through what they have to do ahead of time). Most of the mechanics in this fight are easy but one screw up (positive/negative, spreading bombs, wave skips with lock gate etc) can drastically reduce your kill chance.

    This is the only fight that requires disc imo, unless you got a full group of aotc players.
    Last edited by Chucknourishlol; 2023-02-09 at 05:12 PM.

  15. #35
    If people die to first breath, kick them.

    If people die to first hurricane, kick them.

    Drop one puddle close enough for melee to still attack. Send the others to BFE

    Use a lock portal (with the exit under the boss in the middle of the room) to skip a push back.

    Dont get 2 sparks rounds in p1. Also dont super spread. Let folks with AoE abilities help get rid of sparks. (Throw that fucking ice trap if you have to to help out)

    Kill last Big add together and last on p1.5.

    Use WA for Surge

    Use hero for either second Shield or p2.5. KILL THE LITTLE ADDS

    P3 kill boss


    Quote Originally Posted by RobertMugabe View Post
    This is of course a bit off-topic and not really what you've asked for, but the key is to farm 80k gold and pay for a rasz hc carry (or 320k for a full raid run).
    Not quite sure what server you're on, but on mine... Folks want 300k just for the kill. Oh and Powerleveling is 30k to 50k PER level.

  16. #36
    I don't think Razageth is that Ilvl dependend honestly.

    If no one fails the mechanics a low to mediocre performance is enough. But if you loose one DD it es a wipe for phase 3 mostly because the healers will not be able to cope.

    Healers should time their CDs so not every CD used at the first shield. Use Hero for the first shield to get out of it as fast as possible so healers don't need a CD for the frist one at all.

    As long as everyone is alive it should go down. We had mostly grey logs for our DDs at the kill. It is not really needed to do over mega damage numbers here.

    EDIT: Also Pugs will lack practice which is always the most important part for endbosses. I KNOW when other healers are using their CDs because after we have seen every phase it is the same again and again. Same with DDs. They know how the tanks move the boss after some time and can adjust accordingly.
    As this is not a given maybe you are right and only Ilvl with save you. I don't really know tbh as i HATE pugs with a passion. Never doing that to myself^^
    Last edited by VinceVega; 2023-02-09 at 05:24 PM.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by babalou1 View Post
    Not quite sure what server you're on, but on mine... Folks want 300k just for the kill. Oh and Powerleveling is 30k to 50k PER level.
    You're doing it wrong by looking on your server.

    You gotta join a known boosting community (discord or website) and they will accept payments on all servers (gold only of course), are much cheaper and are actually safe (at least I was never scammed).

    People and even guilds that advertise just on your server can often be scammers, because they have nothing to lose (not banable). Meanwhile, these communities operate kind of as a business with several completely different people involved and they have a name/status to uphold. And by how they operate, they are simply cheaper as they do boosts all day long, since they are, well, a community of pro guilds and pro players with middle-men (not part of these guilds) that handle the service (collect the gold on any server, find a booster for the "customer", pay out the guilds etc.).

    And yeah prices have fallen quite dramatically just the last 2 weeks.

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