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  1. #821
    Quote Originally Posted by Myradin View Post
    You're selectively ignoring the roster of metallic dragons who've been classicly depicted as good.
    Not at all. As I mentioned earlier in another response, I am aware of the "good" dragons. I even encountered my share during the days of my table top adventures.
    Regardless, Gold, Brazz, Bronze, Silver, and everything in between have slightly different personalities. Most are more wise with age. Some are more like to be tricksters who might just as well delight in playing pranks, or tricks on passing adventurers or other mortals. Some are even more ne'er-do-well's who lay about their dwellings. However this may be Dragons in any games I ever played were never commonplace denizens who gave people taxi rides.

    Listen, bottom line. There is a place for all things. Kinder gentler dragons as well. But making them common, and mundane, trivializes them and dilutes all their majesty and presence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverLion View Post
    I'm getting it from the same quest text you're quoting. And you didn't actually provide any examples of that not being true. You literally just "well it's just an opinion bro"'d me. Like, I don't really care who does or doesn't agree with your premise, especially here. It's obvious it's faulty because the actual text of the game highlights it. There's tons of poop quests, tons of just exploding people because exploding people is funny quests. Plenty of meme quests and meme zones. Tons and tons of just edgy bullshit because that was the humor style of the mid 2ks. Pretending that this wasn't an intentional choice and is some brilliant writing is naive at best, dishonest at worst. I'm not saying you can't enjoy it, I'm saying be honest about what it actually is. And saying the themes we've dealt with in Dragonflight (and arguably in Shadowlands) haven't had some dark edge to them is just choosing to willfully ignore them. Like, you're aware the entire Incarnate war started because several Aspects, Malygos and Neltharion were just straight fine with Titanizing proto dragon eggs, yeah? Like Alexstrasza was the deciding vote and she went along with it too. That's dark as hell.
    I'm talking about the overall tone and feel of the game and it's recent content. Sure there are some darker themes. But the world as a whole just doesn't have that same edge. You talk about meme zones and differing humor from the mid 2k's. Alright I get it. But honestly the meme zones I more or less always kind of wrote off. This is why I mentioned that Cata had it's up's and downs. The whole thing with the Goblins basically just turned them into a Meme race. I'm not saying WoW or any game needs to be super serious all the time but there has to be a line. Everything these days is injected with humor, whereas back in the day, if you watched movies from the 50's and 60's even the most preposterous movies were played straight and dry. This helped the viewer suspend disbelief. How can you take anything seriously these days when everything is a joke? That's another part of the problem. WoW back in 04, had some levity to it sure. But those things were like little nuggets, morsels of humor to break up the monotony. Booty bay for instance was a nice respite from a jungle where you were constantly fighting off wild animals and marauding pirates, or Trolls.

    I don't have exact figures but Classic WOW felt like an 80-20 split between seriousness and silly content. Nowadays it feels like it's more or a 40-60 split. If the serious stuff nowadays is a tiger, then it feels like a tiger with it's claws and fangs filed down. Sure it's still threatening, but doesn't have that bite it once did.

    I feel like this trend kind of started kicking into high gear around the time games like Fortnight came out. Teenagers these days have zero attention span and take nothing serious anymore. I read a comment recently that said something like you literally have to have half naked girls on your thumbnail licking ice cream cones, to even get noticed these days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacia Ultan View Post
    Oh, I get it; you're drawing a false equivalence. No faction war ≠ "peace." There's always a bigger threat; and if the faction war has to be constantly artificially maintained via someone (almost invariably Horde-side, because the writers aren't the best at gray-and-grey morality and keep mistaking the Alliance for "good guys" because they started out closer to being Tolkienian; but I digress) being a fool or an asshole, that's crap writing.

    That's not how war works. Again: it does end. And the culmination is always either one side roflstomping the other (which we've established is not going to happen with the Zandalar and Nightborne in play), both sides in ruins (likelier), or at least an uneasy truce (the current situation)—especially in the face of constant greater threats. And the constant greater threats are always present.

    Again: even the outright end of the faction war would not add up to "peace." The whole setting is, for want of a better word, hostile; there's always a bigger threat.

    Probably because the writers know it's unsustainable, there's always a bigger threat, and it's not actually "the core of the narrative" because "war" meaning "faction war" is a fandom conceit.
    I mean not to jump in here but, honestly it's called World of Warcraft. The games were designed as faction against faction during the RTS days.

    Maybe the writers these days are so removed from the original storytellers that they have found it hard to keep the story going. There is literally SO much lore that I feel nowadays the writers can't seem to keep it all straight. This comment has been mirrored in several videos I've watched discussing the lore in WoW since SL came out, then into Dragonflight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    Did you start playing WoW as an adult? I noticed it's easy to have nostalgia and think it was extremely mature.
    People who started playing it as adults know it was just a superficial ripoff of the aesthetics of the lotr movies which were the meme of that time.
    Honestly every fantasy game was more or less a result of the lore from the works of Tolkien. Even Dungeons and Dragons. I more or less saw WC1 and 2 as sort of more lighthearted versions of Tolkien-esque fantasy. I was 16 or so when WC1 came out. Even so I was only mildly into it at that time. When Tides of Darkness came out a year later it was more of the same for me. It wasn't until WCIII that I really fell in love with the franchise because that game matured very much compared to the previous entries. By the time WoW came out I was in my mid 20's. It had a cartoonish look to it but felt like it wasn't pandering. I never would accuse WoW of being super mature but in recent development the game definitely seems to have gotten less mature.

  2. #822
    Quote Originally Posted by Dacia Ultan View Post
    Oh, I get it; you're drawing a false equivalence. No faction war ≠ "peace." There's always a bigger threat; and if the faction war has to be constantly artificially maintained via someone (almost invariably Horde-side, because the writers aren't the best at gray-and-grey morality and keep mistaking the Alliance for "good guys" because they started out closer to being Tolkienian; but I digress) being a fool or an asshole, that's crap writing.

    That's not how war works. Again: it does end. And the culmination is always either one side roflstomping the other (which we've established is not going to happen with the Zandalar and Nightborne in play), both sides in ruins (likelier), or at least an uneasy truce (the current situation)—especially in the face of constant greater threats. And the constant greater threats are always present.

    Again: even the outright end of the faction war would not add up to "peace." The whole setting is, for want of a better word, hostile; there's always a bigger threat.

    Probably because the writers know it's unsustainable, there's always a bigger threat, and it's not actually "the core of the narrative" because "war" meaning "faction war" is a fandom conceit.
    1) Ever since the end BfA there is actual peace. They went out of their way to do a small time jump to hammer this home by saying 'well, we let the world enjoy some narrative peace'.
    The whole narrative is 'artificially maintained' because it is a product made by a studio, mate. Literally anything goes that they want to.
    It also doesn't have to be grey, this is such a bullshit argument. We can have clear aggressors and victims at times if it comes with a good story, honestly the faction war things at the start of MoP were pretty good at this.

    2) It doesn't matter how war works in real life terms. This is a video game. There can be a permanent war. Greater threats doesn't matter (look at Garrosh in WotLK).

    3) It literally did add up to peace. They literally time-skipped after SL cuz there was ultimate peace. Even now in DF the threat is very localized, the rest of the world is pretty much at peace. Again, greater outside threats does not mean there needs to be an end to the faction war, as evidenced by earlier expansions.

    4) Why wouldn't it be sustainable? Again, this is a video game. There are no resources at stake here, they can just pretend that there are infinite lumber in Ashenvale (the horde's been cutting the same 2 acres down for 20 years at this point) without breaking immersion. And yes, the whole premise of the World of WARcraft was the Alliance vs Horde setting where you had to choose a side before you even logged in with your first character. It was the POINT regardless of greater threats.

  3. #823
    Quote Originally Posted by Zodiark View Post
    Honestly every fantasy game was more or less a result of the lore from the works of Tolkien. Even Dungeons and Dragons. I more or less saw WC1 and 2 as sort of more lighthearted versions of Tolkien-esque fantasy. I was 16 or so when WC1 came out. Even so I was only mildly into it at that time. When Tides of Darkness came out a year later it was more of the same for me. It wasn't until WCIII that I really fell in love with the franchise because that game matured very much compared to the previous entries. By the time WoW came out I was in my mid 20's. It had a cartoonish look to it but felt like it wasn't pandering. I never would accuse WoW of being super mature but in recent development the game definitely seems to have gotten less mature.
    Fair; it's not a definite negative; it's not like Tolkien works were bad. I just wanted to add an extra layer of debunking the "glory" of early-wow in reference to the movies specifically(not the books). It was so obvious the Galadriel narration of the first movie was extremely influential to the aesthetics of the Elves in WoW.

  4. #824
    WoW has always had pop culture references everywhere, including during the RTS games.
    It's not that big of a deal nor as formative for races as people want it to be. And that was part of it's charm, and honestly, still continues to be.
    Never took itself super seriously, but not to the point of feeling like it's pandering to people's children.

    Also, general reminder part of the horror of war is that it doesn't end. It's a cycle. You write that out of an IP that started on war, you just alienated a huge part of your audience.

    "Why do they fight? It is in their nature."

  5. #825
    Quote Originally Posted by Zodiark View Post
    I mean not to jump in here but, honestly it's called World of Warcraft.
    I point out that "war" doesn't mean "faction conflict," and y'all go right back to "it's called Warcraft!" Amazing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Garymorilix View Post
    And yes, the whole premise of the World of WARcraft was the Alliance vs Horde setting where you had to choose a side before you even logged in with your first character. It was the POINT regardless of greater threats.
    Aside from this being more of the previous: that proves that there is a faction divide. It meaning that the faction conflict was the entire point of the story is your interpretation.

    And as for the rest of your post? This fanbase is constantly moaning about "bad writing," every time something makes them uncomfortable or doesn't go their way. And yet: here you are, demanding what—past a certain point—adds up to narrative railroading to make the story go the way you want it to. Just goes to show that writing quality was never the actual concern.

  6. #826
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  7. #827
    Quote Originally Posted by Dacia Ultan View Post
    I point out that "war" doesn't mean "faction conflict," and y'all go right back to "it's called Warcraft!" Amazing.

    Aside from this being more of the previous: that proves that there is a faction divide. It meaning that the faction conflict was the entire point of the story is your interpretation.

    And as for the rest of your post? This fanbase is constantly moaning about "bad writing," every time something makes them uncomfortable or doesn't go their way. And yet: here you are, demanding what—past a certain point—adds up to narrative railroading to make the story go the way you want it to. Just goes to show that writing quality was never the actual concern.
    The faction war was not the main story of the game outside of specific expansions.

    The faction war was the main SETTING for the game.
    The whole flavor of WoW came from the Horde vs Alliance, red vs blue, setting. That you have to choose a side in this conflict and that limits certain gameplay aspects.

    Now, as I said, I don't mind removing the gameplay limitations.
    But narratively speaking it should have never went away.
    There is nothing to do about now, the damage is already done. Doesn't make it any less lame.

    I never had major problems with the writing of Warcraft. In fact, the worst expansions for writing are probably TBC and DF so far.
    But neither is because of the faction conflict or lack of it.

  8. #828
    Quote Originally Posted by Sariengrey View Post
    I mean WoW is all flower planting, hugs and disney looking now. If that isn't "family" and soft I don't what is.
    WoW lost its edge. DF sealed that deal.
    I'm surprised they haven't put in a toy that lets players port to a "safe place" so they can cry.
    WoW has gotten softer and softer, just like the generations of people.
    Sorry, it's the truth
    /shrug WoW was never as edgy as everyone says honestly, most of the "dark" parts were in cutscenes that 90% of people skipped and even then they were no more menacing than 80s Saturday morning cartoons. 15 years ago my co-worker who was really against anything violent and offensive being watched or played by her 2 sons stopped them from playing WoW anymore, not because of anything in the game but because of all the bullshit being talked about in General/Trade chat. Honestly it just sounds like a bunch of people that are embarrassed that they ever played a kids game and are now using that boring "it was a more serious game back then" excuse to save face.

  9. #829
    Quote Originally Posted by sensei View Post
    /shrug WoW was never as edgy as everyone says honestly, most of the "dark" parts were in cutscenes that 90% of people skipped and even then they were no more menacing than 80s Saturday morning cartoons. 15 years ago my co-worker who was really against anything violent and offensive being watched or played by her 2 sons stopped them from playing WoW anymore, not because of anything in the game but because of all the bullshit being talked about in General/Trade chat. Honestly it just sounds like a bunch of people that are embarrassed that they ever played a kids game and are now using that boring "it was a more serious game back then" excuse to save face.
    I don't think anyone is arguing that the game was always dark and edgy. Even WC2 had light-hearted humor inserted in the dialogue. Although it was a hell of a lot darker than modern WoW and WC3 even. People dislike that Dragonflight is completely devoid of any grit or edge. Its overly sweet and childish. Where as old WarCraft might have been you a variety of flavors, DF has just one flavor. And that flavor is bubblegum.

    Of course this is mostly likely just an overcorrection to Shadowland's dismalness. Which is a common mistake of the devs.

    People complained MoP was childish (even though it wasn't) and we got "super metal" WoD as a overcorrection. Then people complained about too many orcs and we got an expansion full of elves. So I am sure if anything TWW will be brimming with so much edge after the Dragonflight complaints people won't know what to do with themselves.

  10. #830
    Quote Originally Posted by Schwert View Post
    WoW has always had pop culture references everywhere, including during the RTS games.
    It's not that big of a deal nor as formative for races as people want it to be. And that was part of it's charm, and honestly, still continues to be.
    Never took itself super seriously, but not to the point of feeling like it's pandering to people's children.
    There is a massive difference, however, between you clicking an orc peon enough to get the 'It's easy being green' quote or an item like 'The One Ring' that's a little reference to a well know series and having ENTIRE zones be based around it, like how roughly 70% of Westfall's Zone became dedicated to an NCIS reference. And things have taken a bit more heavy handed reference when it comes WoW, where entire events in the story feels more like 'Oh hey, did you like this movie? Here, have a reference to it' than an original story that had the occasional Dr. Who joke thrown in.

    Also, general reminder part of the horror of war is that it doesn't end. It's a cycle. You write that out of an IP that started on war, you just alienated a huge part of your audience.
    Lots of history likes to point out that there has been ends to war, even if it's only temporary. Not only that, writing a war for a wars sake isn't interesting, engaging, or even fun to watch. Especially from the point of 'Let's just keep this going on because that's how we started the series'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khaza-R View Post
    I don't think anyone is arguing that the game was always dark and edgy. Even WC2 had light-hearted humor inserted in the dialogue. Although it was a hell of a lot darker than modern WoW and WC3 even. People dislike that Dragonflight is completely devoid of any grit or edge. Its overly sweet and childish. Where as old WarCraft might have been you a variety of flavors, DF has just one flavor. And that flavor is bubblegum.
    While I won't deny that from what I've seen second hand from Dragonflight makes it feel a bit lighter and more positive than some of WoW's other stuff, to say that it's lacked Grit and Edge that the series is well known for. Or are we going to ignore the fact that the first zone alone has this new dragon ally we've got that ends up getting sacrificing themselves halfway through the introductory questing? Just because this is a softer/lighter expansion doesn't mean it's devoid of the things that made WoW what it is.

    Of course this is mostly likely just an overcorrection to Shadowland's dismalness. Which is a common mistake of the devs.
    Let's fully admit that this is very much Blizzard in a Nutshell and it has happened before. But let's also admit that there needed to be SOME levity after an expansion of death, destruction, and absolutely horrible writing.

    People complained MoP was childish (even though it wasn't) and we got "super metal" WoD as a overcorrection. Then people complained about too many orcs and we got an expansion full of elves. So I am sure if anything TWW will be brimming with so much edge after the Dragonflight complaints people won't know what to do with themselves.
    People who complained about Pandaria being too childish are, let's be entirely frank, not willing to look past the surface level of the expansion to see truth underneath. They just went 'Lol, Kung Fu Panda' and that was all they saw. Nothing else.

    WoD's problem (And Shadowlands Problem. And BFAs Problem) came from the fact that they sold us one kind of story and we either got shafted or had a switch up in the end. WoD was all 'Ooooh, retelling of the before times Classic Horde, but with Iron!' and we ended up getting an expansion cut in half, losing out on over half the content and story we could have gotten, and it shifting over into the Burning Legion towards the last quarter of things.

    With that all said, though, you're kinda doing the same thing here with Dragonflight from what little I've seen of it. It's still WoW at it's core. It's just willing to have actual LGTB rep in it now and isn't so 'Lol, penis and poop' jokes as it used to be. And that isn't about it being overly sweet or childish. It's about growing up.

    Well, it's also about Blizzard actually wanting to be seen as understanding, especially after it's legal issues and other shit, but it's also about growing up.

  11. #831
    Quote Originally Posted by MsSideEye View Post
    While I won't deny that from what I've seen second hand from Dragonflight makes it feel a bit lighter and more positive than some of WoW's other stuff, to say that it's lacked Grit and Edge that the series is well known for. Or are we going to ignore the fact that the first zone alone has this new dragon ally we've got that ends up getting sacrificing themselves halfway through the introductory questing? Just because this is a softer/lighter expansion doesn't mean it's devoid of the things that made WoW what it is.
    If we're using that criteron then every Disney movie is adult as almost all them deal with chararcter deaths in one form or another.

    While the subject matter is important, its more about the way its conveyed. DF characters have some sort of juvenile preachiness to them that reminds me of 80s/90s cartoons when there was some laden message to admonish bad behavior. I think this is why a lot of people feel like the DF story is childish is because the narrative is speaking to the audience like they are quite literally children.

    I've watched Dragon Prince on Netflix with my 8 y/o nephew. A show that's targeted towards actual children and I can confidently say it has a less juvenile narrative than DF.

    Let's fully admit that this is very much Blizzard in a Nutshell and it has happened before. But let's also admit that there needed to be SOME levity after an expansion of death, destruction, and absolutely horrible writing.
    I think a change of setting alone was enough. Dragon Isles are colorful and tranquil. Anything else was just complete overkill.

    With that all said, though, you're kinda doing the same thing here with Dragonflight from what little I've seen of it. It's still WoW at it's core. It's just willing to have actual LGTB rep in it now and isn't so 'Lol, penis and poop' jokes as it used to be. And that isn't about it being overly sweet or childish. It's about growing up.

    Well, it's also about Blizzard actually wanting to be seen as understanding, especially after it's legal issues and other shit, but it's also about growing up.
    No offense, but I have no clue where you're going with this statement. I've never really cared for WoW's immature humor. Although humor as levity is a backbone of the frachise that's built on war and death. Taking away the later part doesn't mean that the story has "matured" in anyway. Its just coddled itself in safeness and that's the opposite of growing up when you can't confront things that might be uncomfortable or unpleasant.

  12. #832
    Quote Originally Posted by Garymorilix View Post
    The faction war was not the main story of the game outside of specific expansions.

    The faction war was the main SETTING for the game.
    That makes no sense. A conflict is a story detail, not a "setting."

    The whole flavor of WoW came from the Horde vs Alliance, red vs blue, setting. That you have to choose a side in this conflict and that limits certain gameplay aspects.
    No; that's you liked best about it. I'm not a PvPer or a faction snob—for all that I couldn't bring myself to play Alliance until they added "blue Hellboy paladin aliens," as a friend put it—so I really don't care. The faction conflict is nothing but background radiation to my experiences (plus the occasional personal challenge, such as trying to run a low-level troll through Darkshire without getting slaughtered).

    Now, as I said, I don't mind removing the gameplay limitations.
    But narratively speaking it should have never went away.
    There is nothing to do about now, the damage is already done. Doesn't make it any less lame.
    You don't like it. That doesn't make it objectively "lame."

    I never had major problems with the writing of Warcraft. In fact, the worst expansions for writing are probably TBC and DF so far.
    But neither is because of the faction conflict or lack of it.
    And this is still more opinion presented as fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khaza-R View Post
    No offense, but I have no clue where you're going with this statement. I've never really cared for WoW's immature humor. Although humor as levity is a backbone of the frachise that's built on war and death. Taking away the later part doesn't mean that the story has "matured" in anyway. Its just coddled itself in safeness and that's the opposite of growing up when you can't confront things that might be uncomfortable or unpleasant.
    Lighter tone ≠ "coddled in safeness." There are still greater threats out there, even if you can't personally take them seriously (and, to be fair: Fyrakk is kind of a dumb villain).
    Last edited by Dacia Ultan; 2023-12-16 at 07:50 PM.

  13. #833
    Quote Originally Posted by Dacia Ultan View Post
    Lighter tone ≠ "coddled in safeness." There are still greater threats out there, even if you can't personally take them seriously (and, to be fair: Fyrakk is kind of a dumb villain).
    You completely missed what I was saying. "Safeness" doesn't refer that their are no threats in the storyline but rather with how they handle certain themes. The narrative doesn't depict things that could offend or ruffle anyone's edges. Just look at what's going on with Bel'ameth and Gilneas. Forcily wrapping up old storylines of war crimes and genocide to ignorantly push a message that victims have no right to justice so long as their is some bigger threat to supercede their own personal concerns.

    Its not only stupid storytelling but toxic af.

  14. #834
    Quote Originally Posted by Khaza-R View Post
    You completely missed what I was saying.
    I doubt that; but keep telling yourself that.

    "Safeness" doesn't refer that their are no threats in the storyline but rather with how they handle certain themes.
    Wow; that doesn't sound like a thinly-veiled insinuation of anything at all.

    The narrative doesn't depict things that could offend or ruffle anyone's edges.
    I see plenty of people who are offended and have their edges ruffled over something in the game that made them existentially uncomfortable. You probably just don't view it as such.

    Just look at what's going on with Bel'ameth and Gilneas. Forcily wrapping up old storylines of war crimes and genocide to ignorantly push a message that victims have no right to justice so long as their is some bigger threat to supercede their own personal concerns.

    Its not only stupid storytelling but toxic af.
    While I agree with that being sketchy, if it's at all an accurate assessment of what's going on in the PTR? (While one expects the PTR to be buggy: my every attempt to play in it has seen it too buggy to function, and my only option has been to report the bug of the moment and log out.) That's not what people are typically talking about when they whine that current content is too "safe" or "coddling" or trying too hard not to "offend" anyone (despite the fact that, as I pointed out above, the same people saying that just about invariably come off as one imagined slight away from posting a venomous rant video).

  15. #835
    Quote Originally Posted by Dacia Ultan View Post
    That makes no sense. A conflict is a story detail, not a "setting."

    No; that's you liked best about it. I'm not a PvPer or a faction snob—for all that I couldn't bring myself to play Alliance until they added "blue Hellboy paladin aliens," as a friend put it—so I really don't care. The faction conflict is nothing but background radiation to my experiences (plus the occasional personal challenge, such as trying to run a low-level troll through Darkshire without getting slaughtered).

    You don't like it. That doesn't make it objectively "lame."

    And this is still more opinion presented as fact.
    You keep saying that 'you dont like it' yet made zero effort to actually counter my argument for how WoW went so un-WoW regarding the faction war.

    Yes, I don't like that it was nuked because that's what the most basic essential hook of the game was removed.
    Of course, if I were to like it then I wouldn't be talking about this here in the first place due to my bias.
    So what's the end goal here?

    A core aspect for WoW was essentially neutered to oblivion.
    They literally used to sell the game with commercials that asked 'will you be ally or horde'. They knew what they were doing.

    You're just nitpicking cuz you dont care (see I can do this too).

  16. #836
    Quote Originally Posted by Garymorilix View Post
    You keep saying that 'you dont like it' yet made zero effort to actually counter my argument for how WoW went so un-WoW regarding the faction war.
    Because you don't have an argument. You're just opinionating.

    Yes, I don't like that it was nuked because that's what the most basic essential hook of the game was removed.
    Of course, if I were to like it then I wouldn't be talking about this here in the first place due to my bias.
    Case in point.

    So what's the end goal here?
    What's yours? Because you're not going to convince me that a contrived faction conflict that I've never cared about is somehow the linchpin of the game.

    A core aspect for WoW was essentially neutered to oblivion.
    Again: that's your opinion. The devs clearly disagree with you. Feel free to either switch to classic until it catches up to where you decided the game was Ruined Forever, or cancel your subscription and go play Gloria Victis or something.

    They literally used to sell the game with commercials that asked 'will you be ally or horde'. They knew what they were doing.
    That's called pandering. Yeah, I went there.

    You're just nitpicking cuz you dont care (see I can do this too).
    For one: I'm not the one "nitpicking" here. And seeing as I've never pretended to care about the contrived faction conflict: was that supposed to be a sick burn?
    Last edited by Dacia Ultan; 2023-12-16 at 10:43 PM.

  17. #837
    Quote Originally Posted by Dacia Ultan View Post
    Because you don't have an argument. You're just opinionating.

    Case in point.

    What's yours? Because you're not going to convince me that a contrived faction conflict that I've never cared about is somehow the linchpin of the game.

    Again: that's your opinion. The devs clearly disagree with you. Feel free to either switch to classic until it catches up to where you decided the game was Ruined Forever, or cancel your subscription and go play Gloria Victis or something.

    That's called pandering. Yeah, I went there.

    For one: I'm not the one "nitpicking" here. And seeing as I've never pretended to care about the contrived faction conflict: was that supposed to be a sick burn?
    The best part is that the faction war ended in WC3. There is no good lore for classic as to why it started back up. It's mostly just headcanon and piecing together theories.

  18. #838
    Quote Originally Posted by SilverLion View Post
    The best part is that the faction war ended in WC3. There is no good lore for classic as to why it started back up. It's mostly just headcanon and piecing together theories.
    True; also, we keep sliding back and forth from "uneasy truce" to "oh, shit; some idiot in a position of power went and picked a fight again." (And the fact that said idiot is almost invariably Horde—the one exception springing to mind being Yrel in the Mag'har recruitment questline, and that was narratively messy on multiple levels—doesn't exactly reflect any too well, either.)
    Last edited by Dacia Ultan; 2023-12-16 at 11:32 PM.

  19. #839
    Quote Originally Posted by Dacia Ultan View Post
    I doubt that; but keep telling yourself that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dacia Ultan View Post
    Wow; that doesn't sound like a thinly-veiled insinuation of anything at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dacia Ultan View Post
    I see plenty of people who are offended and have their edges ruffled over something in the game that made them existentially uncomfortable. You probably just don't view it as such.
    Okay wow, so basically you are mostly unable to articulate a point without insulting the person you're talking too. Fasnicating, but don't quote me again unless you have something of substance to bring.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dacia Ultan View Post
    While I agree with that being sketchy, if it's at all an accurate assessment of what's going on in the PTR? (While one expects the PTR to be buggy: my every attempt to play in it has seen it too buggy to function, and my only option has been to report the bug of the moment and log out.) That's not what people are typically talking about when they whine that current content is too "safe" or "coddling" or trying too hard not to "offend" anyone (despite the fact that, as I pointed out above, the same people saying that just about invariably come off as one imagined slight away from posting a venomous rant video).
    Amazing I still have no idea what you are trying to say because its just a bunch of empty air. If you want to have a counter argument than maybe actually have a point to begin with?

  20. #840
    Quote Originally Posted by Khaza-R View Post
    Okay wow, so basically you are mostly unable to articulate a point without insulting the person you're talking too. Fasnicating, but don't quote me again unless you have something of substance to bring.

    Amazing I still have no idea what you are trying to say because its just a bunch of empty air. If you want to have a counter argument than maybe actually have a point to begin with?
    Y'know...if you're gonna open by griping about how I hurt your feelings, you should consider not having the entire remainder of your post consist of insults.
    Last edited by Dacia Ultan; 2023-12-17 at 06:57 AM.

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