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  1. #861
    Quote Originally Posted by Aliven View Post
    You know that there is no such thing as definition of a dragon? because that word change meaning from culture to culture.
    To paraphrase Tad Williams: dragons can no more be narrowly defined than successfully kept as pets. Closest I've heard is "long-lived, scaly, hoards shinies like a jackdaw, and overall a sort of lion/bird/reptile mash-up; choose two or more."

  2. #862
    Quote Originally Posted by Aliven View Post
    You know that there is no such thing as definition of a dragon? because that word change meaning from culture to culture.
    A Dragon is a mythical creature. There have been many stories of dragons since the dawn of time.

    Dragon mythology has existed almost as long as people have. In fact, many of the early Mesopotamian cultures and other ancients in the Near East have rich oral histories that tell of mighty storm gods saving the people from evil giant serpents. These serpents often had many terrifying features, ranging from fluorescent skin to the ability to breathe fire and fly. These myths were the foundation of the modern perspective on dragons.

    So how can one accurately describe the fearsome dragon? For starters, it seems that a dragon is actually any form of serpent that has an especially fearsome nature. This is indicated by the word ‘drakon’ that the English word ‘dragon’ was derived from. ‘Drakon’ means ‘large serpent’ or ‘sea serpent.’ Additionally, most dragons are described as being evil in nature. This is not always the case, however, as evidenced by Chinese mythology. There are times that dragons are also shown as benevolent and knowledgeable creatures.

    In early cultures, the dragons were often seen as mighty serpents and beasts that were either extremely benevolent or fearsome and difficult to kill. The beliefs of a region are often influenced by geographical location. Eastern cultures often saw dragons as a knowledgeable deity that had power over storms and water. Additionally, they also saw the dragon as a powerful and benevolent creature that could ward off evil.

    Western cultures had a very different perspective. They often saw dragons as evil beasts that reveled in killing and chaos. Many dragons are depicted as living in dark and dangerous places that were often perilous for men in ancient times. Additionally, they were often thought to guard hoards of treasure.

    In both cultures, dragons were largely thought to be wingless before the Medieval Ages. During this time, the Western cultures began to transform their dragon portrayals, while the Eastern cultures continued with their traditions.

    Listen I could go on and on and on. Every culture has had reference to dragons at some point in time. As a mythical creature almost every story has some variation. But for the most part there are commonly agreed upon things. With reference to the dragons in WoW, which were more or less modeled after western dragons the points I mentioned above more or less apply. However in WoW they want to portray dragons for the most part as ambivalent peace bringers. With a few bad apples here and there.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MsSideEye View Post
    Dailies were more of an option back when they were limited, when the players were told 'you can only do a few a day, so pick and choose who you want to do'. The moment they removed the limit back in Mists, there were players set on doing them ALL just for the pure gold generation. And that's kinda the start of stuff like that for WoW, where you log in daily to do your chores and if you didn't you fell behind. It was actually WORSE in Mists, because back then, you actually had gear behind the Rep grinds that you needed to even get into heroics back then.

    Hilariously enough, considering you're later comments, FF14 does it perfectly. Not only does it limit you so you're not spending your entire day doing dailies, but NONE of the things outside of materia matter towards the end game, and materia can be gotten several other different ways. That's part of the reason WoW's dailies and a lot of that other stuff in there were considered 'Chores' because EVERYONE had to do the same ONE thing to get anywhere when it came to the progression of power. The feeling of coming home from your job to do another job you were paying for was a very real feeling back in the day.





    That's just the thing, though. The fun!

    You act like that progressing or doing things is the ONLY part of the game and that's mostly because WoW brain has trained you in that respect. You get to the end game, or you don't matter. The very things you're disregarding, the housing, the glamour runs, stuff like that? That's what a lot of people LIVE for in FFXIV. People will spend hours just getting the materials to get the right piece of furniture for their bedrooms because that makes them happy instead of worrying about the DPS numbers of their class.

    Not only that, but you're GROSSLY understating just how much there is to do in XIV. You can level all the classes on one character. The Crafting Jobs actually MATTER and you can level them to the same cap as the actual classes. That's 29 different things you can level up to level cap ALONE, more than enough to get your times worth. That's not even mentioning things like the Gold Saucer and all of it's mini games, triple triad, the Island Sanctuaries, old legendary weapon grinds that you can still do for looks, and if you're REALLY a completionist you can even go through and do all the side quests in the game. Some of those actually have wonderful stories, minions, emotes, and hair styles that you wouldn't get otherwise!

    I myself have been playing XIV since around mid to late Shadowbringers, and I STILL haven't finished half the things in there I've listed. Going and saying 'there's nothing to do' just because you beat the latest Ultimate already (Which, heh, good luck with that) is a disservice to the game itself.



    Yes, let's go play an alt for a game where I don't care for the story, I ignore the quest text outside of 'Kill and collect bear asses', doesn't have a coherent story TO follow even if i wanted to, and that I can jump around into what ever gets me to level cap fastest so I can spend more time grinding on a never ending treadmill only to be kicked from a dungeon for not knowing the 100% optimal pathing to avoid half the mobs.

    With XIV, I treat it and tell others to treat it like a long series of novels or one of your favorite TV series. I can't tell you how many times I've gone back to reread the Dresden Files or go and Rewatch things like Adventure Time because I just enjoy them that much. And there's NOTHING more fun then going through a series of something you love but with an audience so you can see if they have the same reactions as you do. That's kinda what HALF the enjoyment of watching ANYONE going through FFXIV on twitch is about.

    I'll fully admit, XIV isn't perfect. But I'm perfectly fine with spending time in there because I want to Vs WoW where I spent time in there because I HAD to.
    No listen,. From my early days of playing JRPG's including many of the FF games themselves, I had it in my head that you level up a character to achieve a goal. There is a story going on in the game and your a part of it. Sometimes a small part, sometimes a larger one. Regardless you did your part and along the way gained experience and therefore leveled up as a result, thus allowing you to do more things in the game and progress the storyline. Once you got strong enough to progress to the end of the story and defeat the last boss(s), or challenge(s), the game had to offer, that was more or less IT.

    Sometimes you could of course continue playing from your last save file and finish up some loose ends, etc. Sometimes you could do a sort of new game+ mode. Either way. That was that. With the advent of MMORPG's starting with me when I started playing "EverQuest", the Idea was posed that the quest would never end, and thus you could keep playing indefinitely.

    However after doing this very thing for years and years to no end, I have grown a bit tired of just playing a single character for the sake of playing and keep doing new things at level cap. This is why I enjoy remaking characters and going through the heroes journey again. However with FFXIV this is a major time investment. I enjoy playing a few hours here and there on one character then playing a different class/character, then next day picking something else. This is what keeps me entertained.

    If I played the same toon exclusively then it would only be a matter of time before I got sucked into the trap again that I had fought to get out of after many years of being on the MMO hamster wheel.

    I still enjoy the NPC's and such in WOW. The stories aren't great but tell a simple tale. If I run into something overly silly or that I just don't like then I go to another area.

    I don't really do current level dungeons anymore. I just run older stuff while leveling up an alt. It's quick, easy, and low pressure.
    I come home from work to relax not deal with one of those asshats who try and beat you up if you don't run a dungeon optimally.
    I actually did enjoy the patch 10.1.5 stuff a bit and I did quite a bit of grouping in Forbidden Reach. That kind of pickup group style of gameplay is fun. I also did a bit of the Loamm Niffen stuff and killed many of those bosses and did the little event thing down there.
    I do occasionally get a bug up my behind to do current stuff but mostly play a DPS where I can follow the others who know the routes. When I tank it gets ugly.
    Last edited by Zodiark; 2023-12-21 at 04:03 AM.

  3. #863
    Quote Originally Posted by Zodiark View Post
    No listen,. From my early days of playing JRPG's including many of the FF games themselves, I had it in my head that you level up a character to achieve a goal. There is a story going on in the game and your a part of it. Sometimes a small part, sometimes a larger one. Regardless you did your part and along the way gained experience and therefore leveled up as a result, thus allowing you to do more things in the game and progress the storyline. Once you got strong enough to progress to the end of the story and defeat the last boss(s), or challenge(s), the game had to offer, that was more or less IT.

    Sometimes you could of course continue playing from your last save file and finish up some loose ends, etc. Sometimes you could do a sort of new game+ mode. Either way. That was that. With the advent of MMORPG's starting with me when I started playing "EverQuest", the Idea was posed that the quest would never end, and thus you could keep playing indefinitely.

    However after doing this very thing for years and years to no end, I have grown a bit tired of just playing a single character for the sake of playing and keep doing new things at level cap. This is why I enjoy remaking characters and going through the heroes journey again. However with FFXIV this is a major time investment. I enjoy playing a few hours here and there on one character then playing a different class/character, then next day picking something else. This is what keeps me entertained.
    What it sounds like isn't so much you wanting to play an MMO at this point. It's sounds like you're wanting to play a Roguelike.

    You being bored with your character and getting trapped in the mmo style of things isn't a problem of the game itself, it's the problem of what you're interests lies in right now. You say you want to be able to do different things and switch things up... and yet that's EXACTLY what XIV does. If you don't have any interest in being a tank, switch over to DPS or heals. It's just that simple. Same things for leveling. Not interested in dungeon spamming? There's fates. There's quests. There's Eureka and Bozja.

    The only thing that's stays the same is your character and the progress you've made on them, and that's something that's also easily changeable for races since there's no race restrictions here.

    If anything, by the reasonsing you've given, you should love XIV MORE because it has those options and abilities and WoW doesn't.

  4. #864
    Yes, and so was BFA. As frowny facedly self-serious as that expansion got, they were all in on the Dreamworks Face artstyle WoD had established, which has only further metastasized every year since. The darkest of the empty gratuity, like the vulpera elimination squads and the Forsaken-run death camps, was removed prior to launch for being "too far." The visual design for a dragon-seared corpse rotting at the bottom of the sea for 20 years turned out to be "sailor man is a bit wet and looks sad." The moral takeaway of what was basically the culmination of 15 years of conflict amounted to, once again, "de Horde be a family," now with the addendum of "Sylvanas is our daydrunk wine aunt who needs to go to a rehab," and "the world is our home." God help you if you consider the implications of an orcish veteran of the First War making the latter statement for so much as an instant.

    The meme that BFA was "dark," "old Warcraft," "metal" etc because there was a war on, because the factions incurred losses, or because Everquest transplant Afrasiabi had a creative hand in it is just that, a meme. It was the same MCU wannabe Golden-Danuser bilge as anything after, just with a lot more of what it considered "baggage" still left to sort out before they could move on to their real priority as storytellers: https://fairplayalliance.org/wp-cont...-Framework.pdf

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