Has WoW gotten "too" family friendly?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

She doesn't affect current artstyle in the slightest?
Even so, you can see the shift in approaches with her.
You can see it with the Dracthyr Visage forms, for example.

No fan art doesn’t effect the art style in the slightest as said fan artist aren’t working on wows art at all.

And no there is no shift in approach blizzard has always show cases fan art in widely different styles and it has never had any thing to do with there actual Devs like the Wod video.

like here are a couple pieces that were up on the wow official site before they got rid of the gallery.

[Wewlad]

As for art style etc....it has been update. But its still the same. Yes old gnolls or ( insert anything here) looks more gnarly...thats because of the limitations of the game back then. The style is still the same.

This is an absolute crock of shit and you know it, the art style shift is the MOST evident in gnolls, or the weird pastel-like color scheme that has become so prominent. Even the model rigging is changed to make them look like they came out of a damn Pixar film.

Storywise, most of your examples were simply shallow attempts at shock value (Teldrassil especially) with little in the way of actual grit tone-wise due to the constant mood whiplash. All your post did was show your complete misunderstanding. Show me a story like Darrowshire, In Dreams, or even Mankrik's Wife.

[shammypie]

"bUt wOW wAs AlWAyS CaRtOoNy" says people who likely haven't played much of Warcraft aside from the recent expansions. There was a measured amount of grit in old Warcraft that balanced out the tone. Nowadays I cannot take anything with a drop of care since nu-Blizzard doesn't care for anything but le heckin' affirming and wholesome pandering.

bro wow has always been chest deep in the kiddie pool. Except for WAR CRIMES, always got to have those every once in a while.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

This is an absolute crock of shit and you know it, the art style shift is the MOST evident in gnolls, or the weird pastel-like color scheme that has become so prominent. Even the model rigging is changed to make them look like they came out of a damn Pixar film.

This 1000x! I've been pointing this out for years, the shift from Warcraft's root in Alex Horley's 80s desaturated powermetal album covers with gritty texturing to tumblr face with clean texturing and oversaturated colors, and yet the fanboys insist that retail WoW looks the same as it was 20 or even 10 years ago.

[exochaft]

This 1000x! I've been pointing this out for years, the shift from Warcraft's root in Alex Horley's 80s desaturated powermetal album covers with gritty texturing to tumblr face with clean texturing and oversaturated colors, and yet the fanboys insist that retail WoW looks the same as it was 20 or even 10 years ago.

It may be subjective to individuals as to which is the 'superior' version. Personally, even though I like some of the changes that came with the model updates and color palate changes, I realized I still loved a lot of the original assets more when I played around with the classic versions of WoW. As you mentioned, I think it's the combination of smoother texturing combined with vibrant/oversaturated coloring that probably got overused quite a bit, all while being implemented in a rather carefree way. I think there could've been a middle ground to be had when it came to the direction of the art, but I won't say it's necessarily bad... but in the overall vibe it gives off the assets nowadays tend to me improperly used or overused (even if some look fantastic).

When it comes to the questing aspect of things, WoW's always had fun and silly stuff... but it had its share of darker themes and questlines. I mean it used to be a joke that you would be walking around with an inventory full of heads for quests. Everything comes down to balance and execution, and I think if there's a critique to be had it's in balance and execution of quests as of late when it comes to tone. Well, I suppose just the narrative in general seems pretty weak nowadays aside from some highlights. Doesn't mean there hasn't been any times recently where things come together in a nice way.

For example, the optional questline in Drustvar in BfA where you help the creepy little girl was executed well and tonally pretty dark (a decent portion of that zone was, at least for Alliance). While the tone did shift and oscillate, it generally was executed well. It was a combination of the narrative, zone assets, and music that made it my favorite zone of the expansion.

An example of where I think the execution was off (either because it came off unintentionally dark or didn't really embrace it) was in Ardenweald. One part that stands out to me was the world quest where you're helping out punishing the tricksters, and it seems all playful and fun... but you're actually transforming tricksters into frogs to feed them alive to a creature as punishment. That's pretty dark when you think about it, however I still have no idea if it was meant to be dark or was unintentionally dark. Quite often, the tone given when it came to the fairyfolk in Ardenweald was playful and friendly, but holy hell were they vicious and probably evil when you think about their actions and behavior. I'd like to think that it was meant to be ambiguous, but then with how the execution of the tone and narrative went with every other aspect of Shadowlands I can't help but think at best it was a happy mistake.

If there was an example of a questline that was hilariously funny yet got serious as it went on, it would be Welcome to the Machine in Hillsbrad. It starts of with meta comedy, but it actually goes somewhere and ultimately comes full circle in a more serious tone as you proceed through the questline. While there are certainly other questlines that have a meta narrative or approach, I feel like quite often as of late it comes off as cheap. Instead of appealing on a comedic level that any average player can get behind, it feels like we're more likely to get pandering and appeasement. This is also why I feel it's a detriment to the game when they start changing legacy content (like the Don Quixote-esque questline having a narrative change) because it may offend people years later. If you're too worried about offending people, you're not going to be able to execute comedy in a proficient way.

All in all, I think the best version of WoW is where you can balance out light-hearted narratives along with serious and/or dark narratives without undermining either.

[LemonDemonGirl]

This 1000x! I've been pointing this out for years, the shift from Warcraft's root in Alex Horley's 80s desaturated powermetal album covers with gritty texturing to tumblr face with clean texturing and oversaturated colors, and yet the fanboys insist that retail WoW looks the same as it was 20 or even 10 years ago.

There is a huge difference between this troll:

And this one (yes its from Hearthstone but still)


The top one looks like he'd take great pleasure in stabbing someone,
while the bottom one looks like he'd give you a hug before he beats someone up.
While I DO enjoy friendly trolls, I think this 'shift' is way too much.

[GabrielKnight]

There is a huge difference between this troll:

And this one (yes its from Hearthstone but still)


The top one looks like he'd take great pleasure in stabbing someone,
while the bottom one looks like he'd give you a hug before he beats someone up.
While I DO enjoy friendly trolls, I think this 'shift' is way too much.

HotS example has been given before, but we can use it again. Check out Zul'Jin:



Or Warcraft 2:



I'm sorry but the shift in tone in the game is way too obvious for those who have been following Warcraft since its beginnings. I honestly can't understand those who don't see it, it's insanely clear that they're going for a more family friendly setting.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

There is a huge difference between this troll:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-YmX5yprOYg...ungleTroll.jpg
And this one (yes its from Hearthstone but still)
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/he...ender_full.jpg

The top one looks like he'd take great pleasure in stabbing someone,
while the bottom one looks like he'd give you a hug before he beats someone up.
While I DO enjoy friendly trolls, I think this 'shift' is way too much.

Why are you comparing hearthstone which varies greatly in art style and is generally Goofier when we can get actual art from wow like this.

[Soon-TM]

If the next season of South Park featured a dark, more "gothic" style like e.g. the Batman cartoon, some people ITT would still be pointing fingers at the "whiners" and going on with their inane "iT wAS aLwAYs CaRto0nY" meme.

[username993720]

There is a huge difference between this troll:

And this one (yes its from Hearthstone but still)


The top one looks like he'd take great pleasure in stabbing someone,
while the bottom one looks like he'd give you a hug before he beats someone up.
While I DO enjoy friendly trolls, I think this 'shift' is way too much.

Jungle Trolls before Battle for Azeroth:
Former cannibals, flesh flayers, practitioners of dark voodoo magic, shrinking the heads of their enemies.

Jungle Trolls during Battle for Azeroth:
Insecure, inexperienced, strive for peace, merciful and kind (Zekhan).

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Jungle Trolls before Battle for Azeroth:
Former cannibals, flesh flayers, practitioners of dark voodoo magic, shrinking the heads of their enemies.

Jungle Trolls during Battle for Azeroth:
Insecure, inexperienced, strive for peace, merciful and kind (Zekhan).

You skip cata or something where we got both Zen’kiki and Zuni who set the tone for what young dark spear trolls were like?

The ship sailed way before BFA.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Zuni
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Zen%27Kiki

[Akibaboy]

In Dragonflight. We have all these friendly dragons we deal with, a few who aren't so friendly but none that are truly terrifying. Dragons are supposed to be awe inspiring, terror inducing entities that radiate power, not your next taxi upon a quest-leg.

Look at movies like Dragonslayer from the 80's where it actually felt like Vermithrax (the name of the dragon antagonist), was something to be feared. When his anger was incited he bathed the countryside in blood and fire.

(Spoilers)

Look at season 2 of the new animated series Vox Machina in the first episode I was like now that's how dragons are supposed to be, as I watched a maruding band of 4 chromatic dragons obliterate the capital city.

All the while not sounding ANYTHING like the disney-fied dragons in WoW "Your monuments shall fall! Your civilization erased! Here me insects! You live out of mercy! Fight or flee and you forfeit that mercy!" All the while each dragon launched it's personal devestation upon the city and it's people.

One Dragon literally breathed gouts of poisons gas melting some from the inside. Yet another belched acid breath literally melting the castle ramparts. The frost dragon launched volleys of tremendous ice shards ripping apart the countryside. The leader's flame breath put Deathwing to shame. his fire basically turned into a giant molten beam of destruction vaporizing the main castle to it's foundation.

If anything close to this happened in WoW I honestly wouldn't know what to do. But instead we have nice dragons in WoW who help us plant flowers and find new homes for frogs...

I totally understand the sentiment here. I also totally understand what the WoW team is trying to do.

Dragonflight is a big reset button on the: "COOL GENOCIDE! LETS BOMB CITIES! BILLIONS DIED AND WE'RE GOING TO HELL! IT WAS ALL FOR A GOOD REASON THO!"
Granted, this isn't actually what's happening in the game, but player's responses to their favorite bikini elf being a mass murderer or different bikini elf getting murdered became a kind of outrage feedback loop that essentially THIS is all anyone knew or talked about the game online. They started to pivot away from this mid Shadowlands, mostly... but the damage was done by some weirdos making WoW a spectacle game, and not a game where background character narratives and geopolitics left breathing room for you the players to RP. That's what made Vanilla to Wrath feel special - big stuff was happening, but the game was mostly about you, a ground level adventurer going to new lands and slowly discovering things and turning the tide one small victory at a time.

Dragonflight is playing it safe with those big gotcha moments, negativity, antagonism, etc. to give breathing room for the player to just be their character, explore, chill and live the life of an adventurer while some a-holes poke around Titan vaults if you're into that kinda thing. This might be the way the game is from now on, or it might just be a pause button for a bit while we all collectively detox from the cringe of Shadowlands (which I thought had some fun stuff, but overall the intrusive and pointless narrative killed it).

[username993720]

You skip cata or something where we got both Zen’kiki and Zuni who set the tone for what young dark spear trolls were like?

The ship sailed way before BFA.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Zuni
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Zen%27Kiki

I just want them to be more like the former.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I just want them to be more like the former.

I personally wouldn’t hold out any hope for the trolls that were beaten by rampaging Murlocs in classic. I mean I’ve always been a fan of Trolls but dark spear are just lame compared to all other tribes even back in classic.

Zandalari are top notch though.

[username993720]

I personally wouldn’t hold out any hope for the trolls that were beaten by rampaging Murlocs in classic. I mean I’ve always been a fan of Trolls but dark spear are just lame compared to all other tribes even back in classic.

Zandalari are top notch though.

Well, yes, they are a bit weak for a tribe. But, try to imagine them as Jungle Trolls in general. Something like Gurubashi Trolls.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Well, yes, they are a bit weak for a tribe. But, try to imagine them as Jungle Trolls in general. Something like Gurubashi Trolls.

Well that's kinda the problem isn't it, the Darkspears aren't part of the Gurubashi any more because they were unlike the other jungle trolls they are pretty much the weaker more pathetic version of trolls coming from a Golden empire to a savage jungle to losing to a bunch of Murlocs.

the dark spear give the rest of the trolls a bad name.

[Zodiark]

I totally understand the sentiment here. I also totally understand what the WoW team is trying to do.

Dragonflight is a big reset button on the: "COOL GENOCIDE! LETS BOMB CITIES! BILLIONS DIED AND WE'RE GOING TO HELL! IT WAS ALL FOR A GOOD REASON THO!"
Granted, this isn't actually what's happening in the game, but player's responses to their favorite bikini elf being a mass murderer or different bikini elf getting murdered became a kind of outrage feedback loop that essentially THIS is all anyone knew or talked about the game online. They started to pivot away from this mid Shadowlands, mostly... but the damage was done by some weirdos making WoW a spectacle game, and not a game where background character narratives and geopolitics left breathing room for you the players to RP. That's what made Vanilla to Wrath feel special - big stuff was happening, but the game was mostly about you, a ground level adventurer going to new lands and slowly discovering things and turning the tide one small victory at a time.

Dragonflight is playing it safe with those big gotcha moments, negativity, antagonism, etc. to give breathing room for the player to just be their character, explore, chill and live the life of an adventurer while some a-holes poke around Titan vaults if you're into that kinda thing. This might be the way the game is from now on, or it might just be a pause button for a bit while we all collectively detox from the cringe of Shadowlands (which I thought had some fun stuff, but overall the intrusive and pointless narrative killed it).

Yeah the Narrative WAS terrible in Shadowlands. I actually enjoyed some of the stuff in SL but thought the connective fiber holding it all together was terrible. It felt disjointed and uninspired. Like Hey we have all these ideas in the pot how can we tie them together? Then Covid hit and we got... Shadowlands.

But all that aside. I think Blizzard made some, lets say questionable choices over the years. First off as I alluded to in several of my posts. Dragons for generations in western civilization have been part of dark legend and lore. Supreme wicked beings who's existence often foretold the coming of calamity and destruction. Even going back to the times of the Bible a dragon was foretold to come during the end times to devour the dead. As time went on and stories like the Hobbit came about new life was breathed into these with the creation of dragons like Smaug who was himself inspired by medieval lore.

Dragons could have been a great source for storytelling by creating powerful antagonists. The dark shadows ever looming in the background pulling the strings of their underlings who sew the seeds of discord around the world in their name.

A really cool idea for dragons came from a game called Breath of Fire IV. In that game as well as it's predecessors but especially in IV, Dragons were like forces of nature. Thier very existence while awakened was so powerful that the world around them and the destiny of all those in their immediate presence would become forever changed merely by the strength of the dragons life-force. There were so many deep existential story elements to this game that even today whenever I replay it I often take time to ponder some of their meaning.

Blizzard could have delved into deeper storytelling with elements like these but instead they made dragons commonplace and took all the mystery out of them. Even Raszageth was so two dimensional.

- - - Updated - - -

This 1000x! I've been pointing this out for years, the shift from Warcraft's root in Alex Horley's 80s desaturated powermetal album covers with gritty texturing to tumblr face with clean texturing and oversaturated colors, and yet the fanboys insist that retail WoW looks the same as it was 20 or even 10 years ago.

Part of when some of that powermetal vibe died is a big part of why the overall "feel" of wow changed over the years. Part of the allure to heavy metal was the whole feeling of IDGAF about society, mentality. My way or the highway or to Hell's Bells with you! When Blizzard merged with Activision much of these tones changed.

[shane brannigan]

Wow has definitely been sanitised.

I saw Spiketooth <slave driver> the other day and I was like "wow, no way blizzard would make a Player aligned NPC today that has slaves".
Then I blinked three times and though "remember when people could separate fiction from reality". So I blew him a kiss, and did his quests.

[username993720]

Well that's kinda the problem isn't it, the Darkspears aren't part of the Gurubashi any more because they were unlike the other jungle trolls they are pretty much the weaker more pathetic version of trolls coming from a Golden empire to a savage jungle to losing to a bunch of Murlocs.

the dark spear give the rest of the trolls a bad name.

Not everyone can be on top, i guess.
Even the Bloodhoof Tauren were a saved tribe.
The Horde is comprised of refugees, so not the strongest bunch i suppose.

What i really want, in terms of Trolls, are Blood Trolls. They are sick.

[baskev]

This is an absolute crock of shit and you know it, the art style shift is the MOST evident in gnolls, or the weird pastel-like color scheme that has become so prominent. Even the model rigging is changed to make them look like they came out of a damn Pixar film.

Storywise, most of your examples were simply shallow attempts at shock value (Teldrassil especially) with little in the way of actual grit tone-wise due to the constant mood whiplash. All your post did was show your complete misunderstanding. Show me a story like Darrowshire, In Dreams, or even Mankrik's Wife.

Its not crock sh**.

First off look at the art style/animation options back then. You can say: it was way more greulsome...but thats mostly because they did not have the tech back then. And again, old model rigging was limited.
So comparing it is silly at best. Tech etc all has changed. And when i see the gnoles is do not think they have changed that much. Hell take a look at this: https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Gnoll#Gallery
You can see gnolls their true the ages. And they look crisper and better because of the graphic increase...but other then that...nope.
So again, its not any type of sh**.

Storywise, most of your examples were simply shallow attempts at shock value (Teldrassil especially) with little in the way of actual grit tone-wise due to the constant mood whiplash.

No story telling thats called. And not misunderstanding. I am just saying you fill in things that are not there. You say its not dark, and bad. But when people give examples you go like: but that, because thats not dark. Or the only do it because of shock value etc.....And other stories are not there for that?

Darrowshire: darkshore? a whole zone thats like darrowshire.


again you are pushing the woke/incel stuff here. WoW/blizzard has not gone full cartoony. Your opinion has changed. And that is okay. But say its not dark when their child killing, corpses, torture. Hell just played the diablo 4 beta....

So i would say have fun thinking it. Because if you say things like :

Show me a story like Darrowshire, In Dreams, or even Mankrik's Wife.

but when you give examples that are pretty much the same you say this:

most of your examples were simply shallow attempts at shock value

then i can link stories that would be exact the same type of stuff. and you will still say the same things...because you want the game to be bad, colorfull and "woke". so you can hate it.