Kevin Jordan's Former Coworker (Game Designer) Joins Classic Team

[Pristine]

Sorry for broken links, I'm new!


Kevin Jordan was one of three original Game Designers who created World Of Warcraft (2004).
He laid the foundation for game systems, character classes, talents, spells and abilities.
He essentially created all the spells of all classes for World Of Warcraft (2004).
He left Blizzard a few months before Cataclysm (2010) was released.

Kevin Jordan: youtube-com/watch?v=kqkH4f6ceYo


I've listened to Kevin Jordan a lot lately, he's on Twitch and YouTube.

Twitch: twitch-tv/KevinJordan
YouTube: youtube-com/(at)kevinjordan7282

In a stream he mentions a former coworker returning to work on Classic.
It's been 8 months since, however this could still be very relevant.
I'm not telling this nor that, just sharing what I came across.

He talks here: youtube-com/watch?v=hnXDcQ5hFPY&t=882s

It ends at approx. 25:22.


Transcript

Kevin: Ok, so here's the news, and it's not much news but you guys might think it's interesting.
Kevin: So, a guy I used to work with on the WoW team, left the team a while back, to work on another team.
Kevin: And he's very recently returned to work on Classic.
Kevin: He's a Game Designer.
Kevin: So, I asked him but I haven't gotten confirmation, but I suspect he's the first actual Game Designer, to be on the Classic team.
Kevin: Right, so that could be huge news.

Chat: eric is back now?

Kevin: Eric is not at the company anymore.
Kevin: Eric Dodd is not at the company anymore, he's been gone from the company for a while.
Kevin: This guy has always been at the company, so, anyway he reached out to let me know that he was going back.
Kevin: Which was nice, I've known him personally as well as professionally, so it was nice to hear from him.
Kevin: But, he also said "I know that you've streamed about Classic" and he wanted to pick my brain, he wanted to get my take on the whole thing.
Kevin: So, we haven't talked yet, but now would be your time, now would be your time, to get your suggestions in (laughter).
Kevin: So it's good you mention, you know "buff warriors" right?
Kevin: Because you know that could one of the things I say, you know like...
Kevin: I could just say "everything's perfect with Classic, just buff warriors, that's all you have to do, that's it".
Kevin: So yeah, get your suggestions in, I'll only tell him one thing...

Chat: keep vanilla weird!

Kevin: There you go. (laughter)

Chat: orbital strike!

Kevin: Nice.
Kevin: The only way to be sure, Exterminatus!

Chat: ...doing your best callaghan impression.

Kevin: That's right.

Chat: did he work with you on the classes and talent trees?

Kevin: Oh, he did! Yes. Yes.
Kevin: This guy is quality, he's quality, and you guys that are interested in Classic, should be...
Kevin: Should be, I hate to say it, I really do, but you should be excited, they're lucky to have him back!
Kevin: Because, he's very passionate, he's very brilliant, and, from his own mouth he told me that, he...
Kevin: He, you know, he was on his other team doing his thing, working, and then Classic came out, you know, so many eons ago, now...
Kevin: And, he kind of fell in love, with, WoW again, because of Classic.

Chat: tom chilton?

Kevin: It's not Tom Chilton, no...
Kevin: I wouldn't speak about Tom Chilton in this, in this light...

Kevin: And so... He's excited!
Kevin: He's excited to go back there, he's, he's excited, to work on it, and he's a Game Designer.
Kevin: So, that's... that could all be very good news, now, it's, you know it could go the way it frequently goes...
Kevin: In that, he doesn't have influence or power, you know, to afford change or effect change, but, you know...
Kevin: Hey! For the optimists in the crowd, you know, live a little.

Chat: just got my first design job, just a mobile company.

Kevin: All right!
Kevin: That's great news 11visa, congrats, excited for ya!

Chat: ...common thing people do is to merge dead servers.

Kevin: Interesting, yeah.
Kevin: Although you guys just keep guessing...

Chat: its greg street?

Kevin: Yeah, he's not busy or anything...

Chat: ...it'll only taint my memories of it.
Chat: ...embrace the taint.

Kevin: That's what these guys say, when I'm fighting him.

Chat: will they just kill each other already, seriously...

Kevin: We will go to the next screen.

Chat: ready for questions?

Kevin: No I'm not ready for the questions yet.

Kevin: So that's exciting!
Kevin: I'm really curious if he's the first actual Designer on the team.
Kevin: I'm really, really curious...
Kevin: But, yeah...
Kevin: So here's the pessimist side of that, it's that... and this applies to sort of me as well...

Kevin: Like, imagine I went back to Classic, and you guys would be like "woohuuu!!" right?
Kevin: Like, for those of you that agree with my design principles, and you know, I imagine because you're here, you might...
Kevin: I mean there's a couple of waldorfs and what's his name in the crowd, I'm sure but... (laughter)

Kevin: But yeah, imagine, imagine I went back to the Classic team, and I would be like "here's what we gotta do"...
Kevin: You know, I mean I'd have this whole plan, I'd be like "we gotta learn back"...
Kevin: I'm sorry "we gotta move it back to greatness, we gotta undo all the garbage" right?
Kevin: So I'd have this plan in motion, but, who would I be fighting against, who would I be working against?
Kevin: One, I'd be working against... people that, want to make money, primarily, right?
Kevin: So, I might have pressure from above, to say "no we gotta have boosts, it's, it's just a part of life, gotta have boosts" you know?
Kevin: Despite all my protests about how much damage boosts do to the game etc, right?
Kevin: They'd be like "nope, gotta have boosts".
Kevin: I'd be like "clean up, clean up the bot problem" right?
Kevin: And they'd be like "nope, costs too much" right? (laughter)...

Kevin: So, you know, I'd be fighting that battle on one front, another front would be... the community!
Kevin: The community would be... I think the community would be opposed to a lot of my changes, right?
Kevin: And, and, and maybe not you guys, right?
Kevin: But, I would say you guys might be the minority, when it comes to like, the community...
Kevin: And so, I feel like there's a lot in the community that...
Kevin: Just want what they want and don't, don't particularly care about the integrity or quality of the game, right?

Kevin: So, I think there'd be a lot of people in the community that thought I was terrible...
Kevin: Like, and I'd be fighting against them...
Kevin: And then third, there's just that question of like, have gamers changed, right? (laughter)
Kevin: Like, for everyone who wants Classic back, how many of them are like "well yeah, but you can't do classic just as is" you know?
Kevin: Like "you gotta modernize it because gamers have just changed so much" right? "you can't do all those things anymore"...
Kevin: Which you guys know, I don't believe in that, but there's a lot of people that do, right?

Kevin: So, (laughter) respect my time, that's... good God... (laughter)
Kevin: My favorite phrases recently...

Kevin: So, yeah like, so for all the struggles that I would have, I worry that, this guy that I'm talking about is going to have those same struggles...
Kevin: So, that's the pessimist side, it's that like... to actually, do the thing, he's gonna have to like take on the world, basically...
Kevin: So...

Chat: boost is rather not an issue when you look at the big design picture that expansion... (Wrath Of The Lich King)

Kevin: Yeah, so, yeah Wrath has all kinds of issues... boost is just one of them.
Kevin: But, yeah Wrath is where things, really start to get, problematic...
Kevin: You can't quite see it yet in Wrath, in a lot of cases, but... the damage is there... the rot is there...
Kevin: And, you know Nurgle's Rot as it were, and you'll start to see the impacts, alright, later on?
Kevin: But, yeah, Wrath, Wrath definitely... is, you know, you, you could say for a lot of people they see it as the last great expansion...
Kevin: And... you could also see it as the beginning of the end, right?
Kevin: At some point that transition occurs.

*random chat*

Chat: ...if there isn't those things, will you come back?

Kevin: Yeah, like... you know what I've entertained, right?
Kevin: Because you guys would be like, a lot of you guys have been like "go back and work on classic" or whatever but.. "go fix wow!" (laughter)
Kevin: So I've entertained the idea of what that looks like and I've joked about the $20M signing bonus...
Kevin: And... but I would just have to have so much power, I would just have to be handed the reins, right?
Kevin: For any of it to even, you know, for any of it to work, and... what are the chances of that, right?
Kevin: Yeah, every year they delay it goes up another $20M, so...

Chat: ...at the wheel!

Kevin: That's right, at the wheel, we're getting there.


Why does Classic require a Game Designer when Classic already is designed?

Classic, no matter the expansion or iteration, need a Game Designer, unless CHANGE.

[meheez]

Lets get the best and the most wonderful Classic + we all want deep inside.

[Raven]

No he isnt the first actual game dev on the team. far from it.

[Gimlix]

Imagine thinking the same game concept of 2004 works in era of 2023 where people don't wanna invest in a game.
You do understand that the people who love oldskool WoW are like not even 1% of the gaming community we have today.

Dragonflight is a refresh of WoW and it works wonders, maybe the best form of the game we have seen since Mists of Pandaria.

[danki1337]

im not trying to take away from ops post but when someone says "could be" to keep something relevant its like saying aliens could be real or not, maybe

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Imagine thinking the same game concept of 2004 works in era of 2023 where people don't wanna invest in a game.
You do understand that the people who love oldskool WoW are like not even 1% of the gaming community we have today.

Dragonflight is a refresh of WoW and it works wonders, maybe the best form of the game we have seen since Mists of Pandaria.

Im not sure.. I think the classic though wotlk servers probably make up more than 1% of the WoW community and then seem to be about it.

[Mendzia]

Imagine thinking the same game concept of 2004 works in era of 2023 where people don't wanna invest in a game.
You do understand that the people who love oldskool WoW are like not even 1% of the gaming community we have today.

Dragonflight is a refresh of WoW and it works wonders, maybe the best form of the game we have seen since Mists of Pandaria.

So... if Classic players are only 1% of WoW playerbase... Retail has atleast +50M players right now.
Do you still think you math is still correct?

[Gimlix]

Im not sure.. I think the classic though wotlk servers probably make up more than 1% of the WoW community and then seem to be about it.

Not saying WOW community, i said the gaming community.
How active do you think Classic is compared to retail? Retail is atleast 4-5 times as active. I rather have them focus on retail then on classic.

Like Dragonflight is already improving far above the last 3-4 expansions. Now they need to keep going with what they got.
Once WOTLK is over, what comes next? You think they gonna make a 2.0 WoW with classic? lets be real.

- - - Updated - - -

So... if Classic players are only 1% of WoW playerbase... Retail has atleast +50M players right now.
Do you still think you math is still correct?

Where did i say 1% of WoW playerbase? I still stand correct.

[kranur]

Given that classic has been running with well below the needed resources to operate properly, this doesn't mean much

[Cracked]

I mean there's clearly already game design work going on for Classic for a while now. Heroic+ dungeons clearly needed design work, and it could have just been passion work, but to say the game "is already designed" is obviously no longer true.

[Khaza-R]

Not saying WOW community, i said the gaming community.
How active do you think Classic is compared to retail? Retail is atleast 4-5 times as active. I rather have them focus on retail then on classic.

Like Dragonflight is already improving far above the last 3-4 expansions. Now they need to keep going with what they got.
Once WOTLK is over, what comes next? You think they gonna make a 2.0 WoW with classic? lets be real.

What's the point of your comparison in the first place? MMOs are and always have been super niche. What most of the gaming community does or thinks is pretty irrelevant to the direction of WoW or really any other MMO.

[Revamp Man]

im not trying to take away from ops post but when someone says "could be" to keep something relevant its like saying aliens could be real or not, maybe

We shot down a ufo today sir

Ghost crawler is coming back
Riot has too much going on he wants to step away

[Felrane]

Not saying WOW community, i said the gaming community.
How active do you think Classic is compared to retail? Retail is atleast 4-5 times as active. I rather have them focus on retail then on classic.

Like Dragonflight is already improving far above the last 3-4 expansions. Now they need to keep going with what they got.
Once WOTLK is over, what comes next? You think they gonna make a 2.0 WoW with classic? lets be real.

They can do both just fine. They have different teams. Thats like saying I wish blizzard wouldn't make Diablo 4 because I want them to focus on WoW! Classic is just free money not losing half a million players or more, that will NEVER play retail because you dont want them to spend ANY time on classic. Thats just silly.

[GratsDing45]

Imagine thinking the same game concept of 2004 works in era of 2023 where people don't wanna invest in a game.
You do understand that the people who love oldskool WoW are like not even 1% of the gaming community we have today.

Dragonflight is a refresh of WoW and it works wonders, maybe the best form of the game we have seen since Mists of Pandaria.

Imagine being negative about Classic news when you still have retail WoW. No one is forcing you to play Classic or click these Classic WoW threads.

Blizzard is pretty big company. If you think the resources they put into Classic harms Dragonflight dev time you're an idiot. In fact, Classic inspired Blizzard to bring back some great things like Talent trees, "a game concept" from 2004... so i'm not sure what your point is.

[Celarent]

It's been 8 months since

Kinda buried the lede, there!

To date, what we've seen is a mix of changes to the game design that managed to frustrate both originalists and modernists.

I'd be curious to know who it is or was, as it's old news.

[Master Factician]

He was most likely referring to Kris Zierhut.

[Pristine]

He was most likely referring to Kris Zierhut.

Could be the case, Mar 2022 according to his Linkedin: linkedin-com/in/kris-zierhut-132766a

wowpedia.fandom-com/wiki/Kris_Zierhut

mobygames-com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,257456/


Kevin: This guy has always been at the company...

[Stickiler]

Ghostcrawler is coming back
Riot has too much going on he wants to step away

Do you have a source for either of these? The last word on his Twitter was that he's back playing WoW(just playing), and that he's stepping away from twitter for personal issues.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Not saying WOW community, i said the gaming community.
How active do you think Classic is compared to retail? Retail is atleast 4-5 times as active. I rather have them focus on retail then on classic.

Like Dragonflight is already improving far above the last 3-4 expansions. Now they need to keep going with what they got.
Once WOTLK is over, what comes next? You think they gonna make a 2.0 WoW with classic? lets be real.

- - - Updated - - -



Where did i say 1% of WoW playerbase? I still stand correct.

Who knows? Then, the important one, why do I really care here? I am not deeply invested monetarily in Activison or Blizzard. So it is mostly a waste of energy. They are going to do what they want to do. If they think like you here they will just make mobile games that rob kids blind with micro transactions. If you want to be real, as you put it, so lets not get it twisted. All sides of this argument are actually already the minority of what these companies actually want to do.

Just best to get over it. Don't worry about what you don't because its not yours to control. Don't fall for the "you are part of the team" as a customer bullshit these companies want you to believe. I will play what I like. I will not play what I won't. That is all I can control so its all I worry about. Just wasted energy trying to control the board I or you got no power over because the world if full of suckers that will fund any loony idea they come up with.

[MoanaLisa]

If the implication here is supposed to be that a game designer has been added to the team (and no, he's not the first by any means) and that means brand new content for classic, that seems like a stretch. More likely the game designer person is there (for the last eight months at least) to help make sure that the various pieces work together.

The argument that the game is already designed doesn't wash because it will be running in a new software and network environment than it did previously. Plus they have made some changes here and there to address things that have come up. There's still no indication that any new content is being created for classic.