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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    Been playing WoW since launch all these years, and it's a fav game of mine obviously. But I've had my off times and addicted times to the game, but all these years I typically still play nightly if just for 30 to 45 minutes.

    Use to Raid and play [H]ardcore from MoP through Legion, playing hours a night, but those times are gone.

    Anyways, Dragonflight, was so excited to get a new expansion after Shadowlands, which I found depressing and lame, and so far DF is an upgrade and feels fun and looks great. But...2 months later after Dragonflights release, I'm getting bored already. My main is iLvl 391, and I have another at i360+, and several alts in the level 60+ level range. But right now, I just feel stuck in a rut in the game, not interested in getting my main any higher gear at this point, I'm happy enough doing M+10, but not higher, and I stopped Raiding long ago.

    My alts, I was progressing getting most of them to level 65 or so, but now it feels like a grind to push them to all to 70.

    I know there's the patch today, which will help give something new to do, which is great for WoW, they need mini patches like this often. Because without today's patch I prob would unsub for a bit.

    I would say the last expansion I was truly addicted to and LOVED was Legion, that one had so much to do outside of just Raids, the Class Halls, the artifact weapon appearances, the Class mounts, I felt like I always had something to do in Legion.

    Thing is, I do like Dragonflight, it's beautiful to look at, and I am enjoying it, but I feel like I hit a wall of boredom quicker than usual in a new expansion.
    It's a bit dishonest. Saying that DF is boring, could mean that you got bored in general after 18years. And could also mean, that nothing lasts for ever, no matter what expansion they would release.

    It's a shame how you present this.
    Last edited by HansOlo; 2023-02-14 at 11:20 AM.

  2. #262
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    And its great, the "marbles" come back in the form of an alt, where you need to do the initial gearing (assuming you simply don't use the guild to skip it with a few M+ runs) which takes a couple of weeks.

    Apart from the soup event cause of the crafting material which refuses to drop, i do enjoy the fact my 2 alts aren't forced to do irrelevant shit anymore, i levelled the first one a bit too soon along with the main, the first week and doing the "initial gearing" felt a bit annoying/too much.

    It all depends how you view the game, it has always been a raid logging game depending on experience and many times based on easy mode of the class.
    I mean I don't mind - I was always a raidlogger and loved WOD for it, it's just casual players aren't sticking around if world becomes meaningless in a matter of weeks.

    Frankly, I don't give a shit, because as said raidlogging ftw for me, but I am not sure it's the best way forward for the game itself.

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    wod was designed to be done with wow and it created a huge backlash. its just weird to praise wod.
    No, WoD was designed with no real endgame content outside of raiding. Everything that didn't involve raiding could basically be done in your garrison by queing up work orders.

  4. #264
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaggler View Post
    No, WoD was designed with no real endgame content outside of raiding. Everything that didn't involve raiding could basically be done in your garrison by queing up work orders.
    And this is exactly why I liked WOD, even if I recognize it was an issue for most casual players.

    I play WoW primarily and almost exclusively for raiding. WOD allowed me to practically literally raidlog and avoid all the chorebore needed for raiding at top level. So of course I'd praise WOD - it gave me exactly what I wanted.

    It does not mean it was good or healthy for the game overall and I acknowledge that.

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by Malkiah View Post
    i mean, there's a difference between having a plan for max level character progression that isn't tied to ilevel (and thus progressive difficulties of dungeons and then raids), and making an MMO that has a pleasing gameplay loop that keeps people engaged with it
    there are other MMOs that have robust and deep character progression systems that aren't tied to ilevel so we can clearly see what that looks like.
    it doesn't mean those games are better than wow or that wow is shitty for not having that kind of system, it just means that wow doesn't have that kind of system and over a long enough timeline you can see where that lack comes into focus.
    You may not be wrong, but we have also seen how all MMOs fared that did things differently then WoW. They failed. Some so badly that they were shut down, others are still running on maintenance mode. The only one that is still "alive" is FF. That seems to me like WoW is indeed better then those games as it is financially succesful, where they are not.

    So what you call a missing plan or a lack of a plan seems to me as a smartly planned focus that has been empirically proven as working. Otherwise the game would have gone the same way as all the other contender. Instead it is still running strong with regular patches and expansions after 20 years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malkiah View Post
    and out of what end of who's ass did you pull this? i never said a single thing about group content positively or negatively.
    Pretty easy to see. You speak of a "lacking plan" and call the focus on group content an "issue" (despite it evidentally working to keep the game going) you would not make such an argument if you would be happy with the direction of the game.

  6. #266
    At least the boredom comes from having played all the content, and not been blocked through artificial progression systems where you quit in exasperation or frustration on gated systems.

    Cata (medicore), Mop (good), Wod (bad), Legion (good), BFA (bad), Shadowlands (worst expansion), and now finally Dragonflight (mediocre). Medicore is an improvement; i'm fairly certain they had progression systems laced throughout and pulled them during development given the SL reception. Hopefully this is a baseline to build upon for future releases.

    2 months out of a game is par for the course nowadays. The subscription is pretty galling given the lack of support at this point, but with luck people didn't fall for the '1 year subscription' package which obviously was luring you into a commitment beyond what the content could deliver.

    Biggest issue I seee with modern wow is the fixation on mythic+ dungeons, making raiding irrelevant / hard to recruit for. yes smaller groups are easier to coordinate and maybe that's where Blizzard sees the game nowadays, but the MMO features are almost non existent as a result (open world plagued by bots; class homogeneity; minimal rpg elements; no social cohension through lack of features)

  7. #267
    Bloodsail Admiral Mustardisbad's Avatar
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    Alot of people want to be completely addicted again. Its like they are chasing the dragon lol. (Youtube Link)

    I still have fun with the game, but I also only play a couple hours a day, if that. I do everything as well. Pet battles, pvp, dungeons, transmog runs, etc. There is so much Dragonflight stuff that I have not done yet. I mean how many games do you know of, are still fun after you put in the same hours you have with wow?

  8. #268
    DF was for me boring from the beginning.

    Its MoP but without a war or a character like Garrosh to carry this exp pack. When i play this exp pack it feels empty and nothing like the warcraft universe. WoW lost its soul and feeling without any interesting characters anymore its pretty mutch a boring plot in a boring soulless world without any interesting villians. I dont see how blizzard can improve in the the upcoming patches since you either like the plot at this point or you will become alot more bored the next few years of DF.

    The upcoming mini quest for the Orc armor has generated more hype in me that all of the DF plots and that is really a problem this exp pack.
    Last edited by tromage2; 2023-02-14 at 07:12 PM.

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Question - during SL, my friends list went from buzzing to dead in a few weeks. Some were raiders, some M+, some PvP, some friends who play super casual. Some had played for 2 years, others since vanilla. Some played for 5+ hours per day when they could, others would barely do 5 hours a week. Some had kids, some didnt. Some worked full time, some didnt. Some were in their early 20s, others their mid 50s.

    And yet you are claiming "nah, they just burned out, thats all, its the player, not the game!". Does that make sense when you consider the above?
    Missed my point but ill answer this, im actually making the same point you're making, its the reverse point, the game itself is old, and the players tastes changed/dried up with it.

    The thing is, over time, you can make any game revitalised with a remake, remaster, whatever, but eventually after playing that game 20+ times you find yourself playing the same game and thats the point, you can paint it with new coatings but you'll never remove what it was at its core.

    You will love the nostlagia of it but when you play it now you realize you moved on, the game is also not as fun anymore, and thats fine.

    Games, dont last forever, anyone can tell you that, some age well, some age poorly.

    Most people these days dont have the same drive for the 25 man raiding scene as they did in TBC for example, yes the raiding scene still exists but it is nowhere NEAR as prominent or as grand as it was.

    The fact people struggled to find groups for 20 man mythics in SL alone should tell you that the era of such things passed long, long ago, it even started back in late BFA when people started struggling to get mythic N'zoth progs.

  10. #270
    I am Murloc! dacoolist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    Been playing WoW since launch all these years, and it's a fav game of mine obviously. But I've had my off times and addicted times to the game, but all these years I typically still play nightly if just for 30 to 45 minutes.

    Use to Raid and play [H]ardcore from MoP through Legion, playing hours a night, but those times are gone.

    Anyways, Dragonflight, was so excited to get a new expansion after Shadowlands, which I found depressing and lame, and so far DF is an upgrade and feels fun and looks great. But...2 months later after Dragonflights release, I'm getting bored already. My main is iLvl 391, and I have another at i360+, and several alts in the level 60+ level range. But right now, I just feel stuck in a rut in the game, not interested in getting my main any higher gear at this point, I'm happy enough doing M+10, but not higher, and I stopped Raiding long ago.

    My alts, I was progressing getting most of them to level 65 or so, but now it feels like a grind to push them to all to 70.

    I know there's the patch today, which will help give something new to do, which is great for WoW, they need mini patches like this often. Because without today's patch I prob would unsub for a bit.

    I would say the last expansion I was truly addicted to and LOVED was Legion, that one had so much to do outside of just Raids, the Class Halls, the artifact weapon appearances, the Class mounts, I felt like I always had something to do in Legion.

    Thing is, I do like Dragonflight, it's beautiful to look at, and I am enjoying it, but I feel like I hit a wall of boredom quicker than usual in a new expansion.
    I do agree, I really hope they add some stuff here shortly for us to bite on - I remember Legion almost releasing content TOO FAST - and then in shadowlands it was released.. well - a bit slow lol. So I really do hope they start pumping up for S2 within the next month or so with maybe a release of the next one here in spring

  11. #271
    Herald of the Titans Alroxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daffan View Post
    U literally quit the game right, and 2 raid tiers come out and u just want to skip over one?
    Think about what you're saying there. If there wasn't catch up mechanisms, it means that returning players (or even new players) would have to go through those older raid tiers just to be relevant to the current one.

    Sorry we need to run you through A and B raids before you can even think about stepping into C raid.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by probert View Post
    At least the boredom comes from having played all the content, and not been blocked through artificial progression systems where you quit in exasperation or frustration on gated systems.

    Cata (medicore), Mop (good), Wod (bad), Legion (good), BFA (bad), Shadowlands (worst expansion), and now finally Dragonflight (mediocre). Medicore is an improvement; i'm fairly certain they had progression systems laced throughout and pulled them during development given the SL reception. Hopefully this is a baseline to build upon for future releases.
    What? Did you not remember the Legion Broken Shores questline? 12 weeks of here's a single quest from Khadgar to advance your progress (Side bonus, some of those weekly quests were really horrible in design/context). Or how about Suramar's storyline gated by the amount of reputation you had grinded?

    Yes Legion had many positive aspects, but there were also the normal amount of flaws similar to other expansions.

    Honestly the majority of the complaints in this thread is due to the false belief that players had that without "borrowed power systems" the game would be "better". I guess in a way, yes that's true. You can raidlog if you want. There's very little tying you down to complete on a daily basis. But that also means that player progression is strictly tied to some very specific systems. There wasn't any low-effort ways to gain player power at least until today with valor being uncapped.
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  12. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lei View Post
    It's just walls everywhere I turn to. Do I want to pay monthly sub to wait for blizz to figure their shit out? Seems like a bad business.
    Traditionally, timegates were restricted to a few elements such as raid lockouts, VP and misc stuff like mats cooldowns (in professions). But they suddenly started to appear everywhere in the game during Legion, and it only became worse over time. And now DF, which has the not so enviable job of cleaning up the mess left by SL, also has walls everywhere you look.

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by stigz View Post
    The only thing that makes up for it is the people you do it with. WoW PvE is only as good as the people you play it with IMHO.
    As a huge PvE fan and PvP "disliker", i agree 100%

    It's basically the reason why from legion onwards i felt every day more detached from the game - with M+ a lot of the gear treadmill changed from organized/group events to basically solofarming dungeons over and over.

    It's not like there are not good groups anymore or anything, it's just that any semi-serious guild expects you to run as many M+ as possible and i simply don't like pugging. Unfortunately i cannot play as much as i would need to both raid and do m+ with a static group hence i ended just stopping playing the game after 18 years.

    Doesn't mean the game is shit, if anything nowadays it has many more ways to be played than years ago.
    Non ti fidar di me se il cuor ti manca.

  14. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post

    It's not like there are not good groups anymore or anything, it's just that any semi-serious guild expects you to run as many M+ as possible and i simply don't like pugging. Unfortunately i cannot play as much as i would need to both raid and do m+ with a static group hence i ended just stopping playing the game after 18 years.

    This is simply not true unless your playing in a guild looking/expecting to get HoF. I raid in a 2 night guild that typically finishes around US100-150 range and at least half of our players don't even touch M+ outside of maybe the first week or two of a new season.



    Its not just this guild either. I have been in 3 different guilds since M+ was added in legion and not a single one of them had any M+ requirements.

  15. #275
    I'm having a blast! I've gotten 8 characters to 65-68 and I'm beginning to figure out which ones I like and want to carry forward. Some days I just sit and mess around with the incredible talent trees :-)

  16. #276
    I had my fun for now. This is a great expansion one of the best Imo. However I'm not really feeling it at this point in time. I had a plan to get KSM, but I simply can't be bothered finishing it, even though I'm close to the 2k rating. Hopefully next patch will bring something interesting. For the time being I will only log in to do the weekly knowledge stuff on my main and one of my alts.

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby451 View Post
    This is simply not true unless your playing in a guild looking/expecting to get HoF. I raid in a 2 night guild that typically finishes around US100-150 range and at least half of our players don't even touch M+ outside of maybe the first week or two of a new season.

    Its not just this guild either. I have been in 3 different guilds since M+ was added in legion and not a single one of them had any M+ requirements.
    Oh, I know these groups exist, not in my area/servers. i'm italian, which means we raid very late compared to most other people (like 9pm-12pm) - not really simple for me to get a group. But at this point i think i have given the game all i could and got everything i wanted in return, i'm fine with the game not being for me anymore. It's been an hell.of a ride.
    Non ti fidar di me se il cuor ti manca.

  18. #278
    Some of the recent replies make great points, yes DF is a very good expansion, much better than Shittylands, and the design, and art team rocked it, and it is fun, and feels fresh and new.

    But ... I'm also reading people say they do like it, but hat they feel done with it already until the next patch release, or 10.1 in the Summer.

    I do agree with them, but also find that kinda sad, only a couple months into a brand new expansion, and even though people are digging it, they feel burned out or just not interested in pushing further. Does that mean WoW in general is finally starting to lose it's luster? Blizzard releases a good expansion in Dragonflight, but still people are fading out and just kinda of bored quickly into it.

    Does WoW need a major redo? A true WoW 2 on a brand new game engine, using artificial intelligence ChatGPT A.I. to run the monsters and NPCs to feel real life like, and give "smart AI" questing? But that would cost mega million$ to make that game, and take years.

    Or does Blizzard need to wake up that WoW shouldn't be Raid or die for the few % who still do that? Last I checked I think like 75% of WoW players don't even step foot inside a current Raid.

  19. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    Been playing WoW since launch all these years, and it's a fav game of mine obviously. But I've had my off times and addicted times to the game, but all these years I typically still play nightly if just for 30 to 45 minutes.

    Use to Raid and play [H]ardcore from MoP through Legion, playing hours a night, but those times are gone.

    Anyways, Dragonflight, was so excited to get a new expansion after Shadowlands, which I found depressing and lame, and so far DF is an upgrade and feels fun and looks great. But...2 months later after Dragonflights release, I'm getting bored already. My main is iLvl 391, and I have another at i360+, and several alts in the level 60+ level range. But right now, I just feel stuck in a rut in the game, not interested in getting my main any higher gear at this point, I'm happy enough doing M+10, but not higher, and I stopped Raiding long ago.

    My alts, I was progressing getting most of them to level 65 or so, but now it feels like a grind to push them to all to 70.

    I know there's the patch today, which will help give something new to do, which is great for WoW, they need mini patches like this often. Because without today's patch I prob would unsub for a bit.

    I would say the last expansion I was truly addicted to and LOVED was Legion, that one had so much to do outside of just Raids, the Class Halls, the artifact weapon appearances, the Class mounts, I felt like I always had something to do in Legion.

    Thing is, I do like Dragonflight, it's beautiful to look at, and I am enjoying it, but I feel like I hit a wall of boredom quicker than usual in a new expansion.
    Kinda for me 2.

    I think its down to several problems i find DF has after a couple of months.

    they are:
    - story is lame. While i see them going to something great. Legion, BFA had a constant story. and depth ( even though it went knowhere for the alliance in BFA). It needs more progression. We have done all the zones. And it felt like we have only done the opening quests. status quo is the still the same. The next time it needs story progression. what did we do in the story so far. killed 1 dragon, 3 release. Have started but no even finnished to get some dragon shrines/homes back etc.
    It feels like we have done the intro story to DF.
    On the other side it means if i am correct that there is much fun to come.
    - alts, leveling them is nice. But for me where it fails is the renow. Many things are behind a rep grind...you already did on your main. to that same grind over and over again for proffesions is insane.
    - to many bugs/dc's etc
    - renows in general are a nice idea. But so many things are behind a to big of a rep grind and useless by the time you get it. Per example. By the time you have gotten your renow high enough to get a piece of gear. That grind must mean you have play so much that your standard gear is already as high if not higher. I think all renow gear needs to drop by 5 renow levels at least.
    - proffesions. I love the new idea. And crafting to get more stuff, and the talent tree's. But again, for alts. So much is behind a large rep grind. maybe make the account unlock. you get renow 15 on your main, all things proffesion wise will be unlocked on all your toons that are in DF.
    - in general i think i like it. But the sheer amount of things you need to do, that really do not matter storywise or are just a bigger grind then ever ( on alts) make it more meh....

  20. #280
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    I’m just starting to step away this week.

    Cleared my main goal 3 weeks into the season by getting my elite set, farmed the Gnoll flail which was the only real stand out item I needed to have, slowly got my renown up and got my red/black high land drake skins last week, finished my conquest set to be ready for next season, made a decent amount of gold I know I’ll likely never use, tried a few Alts but none clicked. At this point I’ll likely just do some PvP with friends when they want to and do the trading post each month.

    Expan is solid if I cared about mythic+ or raiding I’d likely put in a lot more time.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

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