Bored after 2 months of DF

[Gorsameth]

1. players DONT evolve. they all want the same thing across every era. They mostly want social.
2. blizz detroyed social and the community in wrath.
3. wow dropped from 12 million down to a piddly 2-3 million.
4. the fundamental systems have started breaking down as they now need to do cross realm to fill raids and m+
5. they still refuse to fix social.

everything else is nonsense. DF brought NOBODY back. its still down to that piddly 2-3 million, just BARELY enough to keep the systems going. barely. its just gonna take one more hit to topple this thing. they cant do cross realm again. thats a one time fix.

its gonna be like how d3 died. a game filled with 5 deniers screaming the game is great.

Every chance, literally every chance you give players to not be social they take with both arms.
The notion that players want to be social is complete bullshit. Every time you give players the choice not to interact with another human being they take it.

[Beuargh]

Every chance, literally every chance you give players to not be social they take with both arms.
The notion that players want to be social is complete bullshit. Every time you give players the choice not to interact with another human being they take it.

I took every chance with both arms. I'm mostly a solo player now, using LFG/LFR to see the content. I have a macro to say "hi" at the start and "thx" at the end. no guild since the end of cata, no schedule to play anymore. that said, my account ran out of time yesterday and I don't plan to come back until the last patch of this xpac.

[Thirtyrock]

1. players DONT evolve. they all want the same thing across every era. They mostly want social.
2. blizz detroyed social and the community in wrath.
3. wow dropped from 12 million down to a piddly 2-3 million.
4. the fundamental systems have started breaking down as they now need to do cross realm to fill raids and m+
5. they still refuse to fix social.

everything else is nonsense. DF brought NOBODY back. its still down to that piddly 2-3 million, just BARELY enough to keep the systems going. barely. its just gonna take one more hit to topple this thing. they cant do cross realm again. thats a one time fix.

its gonna be like how d3 died. a game filled with 5 deniers screaming the game is great.

I don't think you & I are going to come to any sort of agreement on solutions because we don't agree on the problems. I hope you find a game you enjoy!

[Lei]

You realize the point of sharding/phasing tech is to make servers seem more populated when they aren't? There's only really a handful of servers that are "high pop", the rest are middle to low pop. And while server connections/merges are a good idea, they aren't easy to do (otherwise we'd see more of them). The whole point is to make the world seem fuller.

Unless it's too full so then it creates a new shard/phase to put players in. The problem is the size definition of a zone can be troublesome. Take any zone, and put 100 players in it. Because of clustering of players, sometimes a zone might feel "empty" but is actually full with most of the players over in a different area of the same zone. You just can't tell because you aren't over there.

Now what IS lost now is server identity. Which leads into one of the reasons why we have issues with PuG but that is for another thread.

First: This is only true for older zones. sharding in current zones doesn't pull people from other realms.
Second: I log into Valdrakken and I can't see my f.cking guild mates, because we are on different shards. MY GUILD MATES! I clearly remember that when sharding became a thing this was a huge problem and the devs promised that the sharding tech would try to put you and your guildies on the same shard. That didn't happen seems like it. Or what about trying to "stalk" and prank my friends not in my guild and they are not on my shard?
How and when did this become acceptable?

I support sharding when it pulls people from other realms in old, empty zones. I fully despise sharding to spread players on the same realm into "layers" of the same place.

[Arai]

The game is getting really stale. I tried M+ with some alts after my main was geared and I had my 2.75k+ rating but its just so boring and the balance sucks hard. Just had a +18 Jade key on Fortified. Invited a 415 Druid Tank with 2.45k io. He got oneshot (100% in 0.5 sec) twice in the room of the 3rd boss and rage quit after that.
Im simply not gonna bother with this bullshit, the game isnt fun enough that I deal with crap balancing, shitty affixes and boring dungeons. I already regret buying a month of gametime yesterday but wanted to loot the Vault. They REALLY need to step up their game with content.

[Alroxas]

1. players DONT evolve. they all want the same thing across every era. They mostly want social.
2. blizz detroyed social and the community in wrath.
3. wow dropped from 12 million down to a piddly 2-3 million.
4. the fundamental systems have started breaking down as they now need to do cross realm to fill raids and m+
5. they still refuse to fix social.

everything else is nonsense. DF brought NOBODY back. its still down to that piddly 2-3 million, just BARELY enough to keep the systems going. barely. its just gonna take one more hit to topple this thing. they cant do cross realm again. thats a one time fix.

its gonna be like how d3 died. a game filled with 5 deniers screaming the game is great.

1. Players don't evolve? Are you kidding me? 10 years ago players could spend 40+ hours in WoW without meaningful consequence. Now those same players might have jobs, kids, other responsibilities that mean they can't spend that same amount of time in-game.

2. Is it really Blizzard or is it the convenience QoL changes that players wanted? LFD/LFR/Group Finder made it easier so you could do dungeons/raids on YOUR schedule instead of trying to find a group that matched your available times. Granted this meant that server identity and community became less important with some other harmful side effects.

3. True WoW is not at its lifetime peak of players but look at the playerbase demographic and the market. As they say, no king rules forever.

4. the fundamental systems have started breaking down - hilarious, you DO know they brought back classic servers right? And just how well have those servers done? Sure at launch of Classic Vanilla, Classic BC, Classic Wrath - the numbers are high but they drop off fast. And those raid bosses, downed in hours because players already KNOW the mechanics, KNOW how to get the most out of their classes. Blizzard had to even roll out seasonal servers because folks might have missed the first (repeated) time X happened (i.e. the gates of Ahn'Qiraj opening)

5. What issues of social are your referring to? That isn't affected due to QoL changes and also consider the impact of the removal of those QoL changes.

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First: This is only true for older zones. sharding in current zones doesn't pull people from other realms.

Funny I see folks from other servers all the time in Valdrakken on my server. What server you on?

Second: I log into Valdrakken and I can't see my f.cking guild mates, because we are on different shards. MY GUILD MATES! I clearly remember that when sharding became a thing this was a huge problem and the devs promised that the sharding tech would try to put you and your guildies on the same shard. That didn't happen seems like it. Or what about trying to "stalk" and prank my friends not in my guild and they are not on my shard?
How and when did this become acceptable?

Again, refer back to the layer/sharding issue I referred to. It could be that the layer/shard you're in is already at a high number of players (just not in your visual vicinity). But let's get some more detail, in this Valdrakken instance where you can't see your guildmates, is it crowded? Are there plenty of players there already? Or is it empty?

[Zorachus]

The game is getting really stale. I tried M+ with some alts after my main was geared and I had my 2.75k+ rating but its just so boring and the balance sucks hard. Just had a +18 Jade key on Fortified. Invited a 415 Druid Tank with 2.45k io. He got oneshot (100% in 0.5 sec) twice in the room of the 3rd boss and rage quit after that.
Im simply not gonna bother with this bullshit, the game isnt fun enough that I deal with crap balancing, shitty affixes and boring dungeons. I already regret buying a month of gametime yesterday but wanted to loot the Vault. They REALLY need to step up their game with content.

YEP crap like this is forcing players to leave.

[Lolites]

1. players DONT evolve. they all want the same thing across every era. They mostly want social.
2. blizz detroyed social and the community in wrath.
3. wow dropped from 12 million down to a piddly 2-3 million.
4. the fundamental systems have started breaking down as they now need to do cross realm to fill raids and m+
5. they still refuse to fix social.

everything else is nonsense. DF brought NOBODY back. its still down to that piddly 2-3 million, just BARELY enough to keep the systems going. barely. its just gonna take one more hit to topple this thing. they cant do cross realm again. thats a one time fix.

its gonna be like how d3 died. a game filled with 5 deniers screaming the game is great.

1. completely incorrect
2. your opinion
3. while 12m is true (lets not debate how it might be inflated), unless you have some actual numbers other than some asspull, its again just your opinion its on 2-3m players... might be more, might be even less, truth is we dont know, but thats still moot as it have very little to do with social aspect and more to do with hundreds of other things
4. cross realm exists since pandaria...
5. there is nothing to fix there is MORE oportunities to be social, but people are less social bcs they DONT WANT TO BE, simple as that
like literaly, all social systems and aspects that were ingame still exist, and we have few more (cross realm guilds, communities, real ID friends...) on top of it...

and unless you have any sources on that "DF brought NOBODY back." is again your very biased opinion, nothing more...
also 2-3m being barely enough to keep systems going? dont make me laugh, other MMOs that are active for years would kill to have that much players...

to sum it up, by accident you describe your own comment - "everything else is nonsense"

[Lei]

1. Players don't evolve? Are you kidding me? 10 years ago players could spend 40+ hours in WoW without meaningful consequence. Now those same players might have jobs, kids, other responsibilities that mean they can't spend that same amount of time in-game.

2. Is it really Blizzard or is it the convenience QoL changes that players wanted? LFD/LFR/Group Finder made it easier so you could do dungeons/raids on YOUR schedule instead of trying to find a group that matched your available times. Granted this meant that server identity and community became less important with some other harmful side effects.

3. True WoW is not at its lifetime peak of players but look at the playerbase demographic and the market. As they say, no king rules forever.

4. the fundamental systems have started breaking down - hilarious, you DO know they brought back classic servers right? And just how well have those servers done? Sure at launch of Classic Vanilla, Classic BC, Classic Wrath - the numbers are high but they drop off fast. And those raid bosses, downed in hours because players already KNOW the mechanics, KNOW how to get the most out of their classes. Blizzard had to even roll out seasonal servers because folks might have missed the first (repeated) time X happened (i.e. the gates of Ahn'Qiraj opening)

5. What issues of social are your referring to? That isn't affected due to QoL changes and also consider the impact of the removal of those QoL changes.

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Funny I see folks from other servers all the time in Valdrakken on my server. What server you on?




Again, refer back to the layer/sharding issue I referred to. It could be that the layer/shard you're in is already at a high number of players (just not in your visual vicinity). But let's get some more detail, in this Valdrakken instance where you can't see your guildmates, is it crowded? Are there plenty of players there already? Or is it empty?

"All kinds of servers"
You probably see people from your server clusters/connected realms. Or people who are in groups with someone on your realmcluster. Or people who have been not phased back to their home realm after leaving their groups. But these are not "random". Unlike in old zones where you can really see people from everywhere.
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Connected_Realms

[Thirtyrock]

Snip because I have nothing to add, well said.

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Funny I see folks from other servers all the time in Valdrakken on my server. What server you on?

Again, refer back to the layer/sharding issue I referred to. It could be that the layer/shard you're in is already at a high number of players (just not in your visual vicinity). But let's get some more detail, in this Valdrakken instance where you can't see your guildmates, is it crowded? Are there plenty of players there already? Or is it empty?

As far as seeing people in the game, I see people literally all the time when I'm doing open world stuff. You just have to do the content, like feasts, hunts, Primal Invasions, Primal boss event, Siege, cobalt farm, Wrathion/Sabellian area that are designed to be social. I regularly get invited to random groups or whispered for help with stuff. Even when I don't group with these players, we often end up playing "together" as we move from objective to objective in synchronistic. It's actually really nice, compared to previous expansions where the main outdoor content designed for groups were world bosses, which are weekly. Now I get to see, and play with, other players pretty much every time I log in. Keep in mind, most of my non-raid time is early mornings, where the player count is LOWER than in the afternoon or early evening. When I play during peak times, I see far MORE players.

I think a lot of people complaining about the world being empty haven't played in Dragonflight OR they refuse to do the content that is designed for groups/multiple players. As the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

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The game is getting really stale. I tried M+ with some alts after my main was geared and I had my 2.75k+ rating but its just so boring and the balance sucks hard. Just had a +18 Jade key on Fortified. Invited a 415 Druid Tank with 2.45k io. He got oneshot (100% in 0.5 sec) twice in the room of the 3rd boss and rage quit after that.
Im simply not gonna bother with this bullshit, the game isnt fun enough that I deal with crap balancing, shitty affixes and boring dungeons. I already regret buying a month of gametime yesterday but wanted to loot the Vault. They REALLY need to step up their game with content.

Either bears are woefully undertuned or he doesn't know how to use his CDs. I genuinely don't know, because I don't bear. But my raid's main tank, who is a bear, isn't having those kinds of problems in M+. /shrug

[HansOlo]

You didn't answer my question, why not? Have another go and think about what's being asked.

Do you really think you can boss me around with after our conversations?

Quartly reports affects the stock market. It doesn't tell you how fun the game is, but you might have an indication of how the business is. Blizzard is doing just fine, regardless whatever shitstorm they been in. Essentially, they are somewhat reaching thier target(i.e 3M subs might be low for you, but it might be enough for them to run the business).

If people wants to speculate - they should back it up with the stocks. It very healthy for the discussion, it's a classic approach and it's existential for the business(Bobby K is measured on this metric).

If WoW was about to die, the first signs will be in the stocks.

Equally - if Square Enix stocks dropped - you might speculate, how that will affect FF in case it lacks funding(depending on the strategy, making it P2W, subs or something else. And then you speculate in the consequences).

[arkanon]

Do you really think you can boss me around with after our conversations?

Quartly reports affects the stock market. It doesn't tell you how fun the game is, but you might have an indication of how the business is. Blizzard is doing just fine, regardless whatever shitstorm they been in. Essentially, they are somewhat reaching thier target(i.e 3M subs might be low for you, but it might be enough for them to run the business).

If people wants to speculate - they should back it up with the stocks. It very healthy for the discussion, it's a classic approach and it's existential for the business(Bobby K is measured on this metric).

If WoW was about to die, the first signs will be in the stocks.

Equally - if Square Enix stocks dropped - you might speculate, how that will affect FF in case it lacks funding(depending on the strategy, making it P2W, subs or something else. And then you speculate in the consequences).

Please provide a link to the world of warcraft stock on the stock exchange. No one is bossing you around, you are evading the question and answering something no one asked. Your logic completely falls apart when you consider there is no wow stock. Wow could shut down and the stock could still gain value due to other products, other releases, the reduced operational costs increasing profits, etc.

You also fail to understand that stocks are impacted to a far greater degree by external factors. So the stocks could dramatically change without wow or any of the many other games under the same umbrella being a factor at all.

[Thirtyrock]

Blizzard's stock price is irrelevant to whether there's enough to do for different types of players in Dragonflight.

[arkanon]

Blizzard's stock price is irrelevant to whether there's enough to do for different types of players in Dragonflight.

Not just that, but they are not a direct reflection of wows status at all. If blizzard were listed and only had wow, nothing else, sure, there would be a strong connection between the two.

But again, even then, external factors can contribute FAR more to stocks than the product itself. Entertainment in general saw HUGE growth during the pandemic, but had very little to do with the products themselves, but rather people being locked up at home with nothing to do, and in many cases, "free" (yeah right) money from the government.

The pandemic showed this better than anything recently - my brother in law owned a company that specialize in cloud solutions and networks for big business. The value went through the fucking roof over the last 3 years, and sold it for exponentially more than it was worth even 1 year ago at the end of last year. He retired at 38. Their product and service was great, and he worked very hard for a long time to get it to that position, but without the pandemic, it would be worth 10% of what he sold it for.

[Soon-TM]

The game is getting really stale. I tried M+ with some alts after my main was geared and I had my 2.75k+ rating but its just so boring and the balance sucks hard. Just had a +18 Jade key on Fortified. Invited a 415 Druid Tank with 2.45k io. He got oneshot (100% in 0.5 sec) twice in the room of the 3rd boss and rage quit after that.
Im simply not gonna bother with this bullshit, the game isnt fun enough that I deal with crap balancing, shitty affixes and boring dungeons. I already regret buying a month of gametime yesterday but wanted to loot the Vault. They REALLY need to step up their game with content.

I mostly share this sentiment. While DF has fixed some of its predecessors' most glaring issues, all these fixes are purely negative, i.e. no borrowed power, no idiotic systems like Choreghast, or a story that, lame as it is, at least isn't actively offensive.

But DF is sorely lacking positive incentives to play. I already went through WoD, aka the raid logger paradise, and I would rather not play that kind of game again, even if DF might apparently have more content than WoD... More raids and a (mega) dungeon /yawn

[sam86]

Every chance, literally every chance you give players to not be social they take with both arms.
The notion that players want to be social is complete bullshit. Every time you give players the choice not to interact with another human being they take it.

the idea that we didn't evolve in first place is blasphemy, i know how i myself changed massively from when i started wow (for start, i actually perfected english while back then i didn't know how to talk)
i love Grim Fandango for example, but i can't even stomach playing it now, most old games had very horrible limitation due to technology, easiest example is how Silent Hill 2 is probably most scariest game, yet most ppl if they play it now it will barely phase them due to how outdated its graphics

MMO as genre itself built on massively consuming time dedicated to 1 game with small rewards in it is dead, if wrath launched today for first time it won't even get 6 million because we don't want that anymore, i love wrath, best time of my miserable life ever, but it is perfect because it was 2009, 2023 exact same game won't work

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Blizzard's stock price is irrelevant to whether there's enough to do for different types of players in Dragonflight.

they do, but not as ppl think
due to inflation, almost everyone is reporting 'break record high' profits, in reality they aren't, easiest example how every movie love to gloat about 100+ million profit, while nowadays having a 100m budget is seen relatively ok in first place
so while blizz - and every cooperation - is reporting a 'record profit' every quarter last couple of years, it isn't because they doing better, they doing even worse than ever, but because inflation made 1$ far easier to get than ever
so stock price mater but adjust it to inflation, and blizz stock will drop below than ever (also microsoft plan to takeover did increase stock value)

[james2400]

The game is just stale and worn out at this point.

[HansOlo]

Please provide a link to the world of warcraft stock on the stock exchange. No one is bossing you around, you are evading the question and answering something no one asked. Your logic completely falls apart when you consider there is no wow stock. Wow could shut down and the stock could still gain value due to other products, other releases, the reduced operational costs increasing profits, etc.

You also fail to understand that stocks are impacted to a far greater degree by external factors. So the stocks could dramatically change without wow or any of the many other games under the same umbrella being a factor at all.

I obviously talk about Blizzard and not WoW stock. You are just being personal for the sake of it. And stop with the prove me a link cliche responds.

But if the stock didn't drop, in fact doing pretty well, this tells me that Blizzard is doing just fine. That also means DF is doing fine.

It's my own speculation, but atleast it's based on metrics. Instead of listening to Bellular, I believe this is a better standard for discussions.

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Blizzard's stock price is irrelevant to whether there's enough to do for different types of players in Dragonflight.

We are talking about the meta perspective. If the stock dropped significantly(caused by bad DF sales), the expected outcome would be change in the product. But thats my own speculation.

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the idea that we didn't evolve in first place is blasphemy, i know how i myself changed massively from when i started wow (for start, i actually perfected english while back then i didn't know how to talk)
i love Grim Fandango for example, but i can't even stomach playing it now, most old games had very horrible limitation due to technology, easiest example is how Silent Hill 2 is probably most scariest game, yet most ppl if they play it now it will barely phase them due to how outdated its graphics

MMO as genre itself built on massively consuming time dedicated to 1 game with small rewards in it is dead, if wrath launched today for first time it won't even get 6 million because we don't want that anymore, i love wrath, best time of my miserable life ever, but it is perfect because it was 2009, 2023 exact same game won't work

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they do, but not as ppl think
due to inflation, almost everyone is reporting 'break record high' profits, in reality they aren't, easiest example how every movie love to gloat about 100+ million profit, while nowadays having a 100m budget is seen relatively ok in first place
so while blizz - and every cooperation - is reporting a 'record profit' every quarter last couple of years, it isn't because they doing better, they doing even worse than ever, but because inflation made 1$ far easier to get than ever
so stock price mater but adjust it to inflation, and blizz stock will drop below than ever (also microsoft plan to takeover did increase stock value)

It's all relative to the market and inflation, as long as they reach target goals? Just like any company in the industry, you are measured by growth and not only profit.

Obviously if WoW sucked hard and people dismissed it, it would be very easy to find that information in the stock market.

[Thirtyrock]

they do, but not as ppl think
due to inflation, almost everyone is reporting 'break record high' profits, in reality they aren't, easiest example how every movie love to gloat about 100+ million profit, while nowadays having a 100m budget is seen relatively ok in first place
so while blizz - and every cooperation - is reporting a 'record profit' every quarter last couple of years, it isn't because they doing better, they doing even worse than ever, but because inflation made 1$ far easier to get than ever
so stock price mater but adjust it to inflation, and blizz stock will drop below than ever (also microsoft plan to takeover did increase stock value)

I think the stock price is relevant to how the market thinks the game is performing, but Blizzard has too many games under their umbrella to pinpoint any one game as being THE reason behind the stock moving up or down or NOT moving up or down. It would be one thing if Blizzard announced that "we're discontinuing WoW" and then there was a huge stock move in either direction.

But that has nothing to do with the topic of the thread, which is about whether there is enough content in DF to keep people busy.

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We are talking about the meta perspective. If the stock dropped significantly(caused by bad DF sales), the expected outcome would be change in the product. But thats my own speculation.

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Oh, I agree, if DF was a complete flop we'd see a hit to Blizzard stock price, all things being equal. But that's not the subject of the thread. I also think all things aren't equal, since the potential Microsoft acquisition is probably the single most important factor in the stock price right now.

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the idea that we didn't evolve in first place is blasphemy, i know how i myself changed massively from when i started wow (for start, i actually perfected english while back then i didn't know how to talk)
i love Grim Fandango for example, but i can't even stomach playing it now, most old games had very horrible limitation due to technology, easiest example is how Silent Hill 2 is probably most scariest game, yet most ppl if they play it now it will barely phase them due to how outdated its graphics

MMO as genre itself built on massively consuming time dedicated to 1 game with small rewards in it is dead, if wrath launched today for first time it won't even get 6 million because we don't want that anymore, i love wrath, best time of my miserable life ever, but it is perfect because it was 2009, 2023 exact same game won't work

I think you can see this, quite easily, in how the community has responded to WoW Classic. A lot of us tried it and realized that we didn't enjoy it nearly as much today as we did the first time around. Too many quality of life things were added, the systems were improved, etc. I LOVED Wrath when I played it. It was my first experience with an MMO and my first experience raiding and my first experience with a guild. But playing it now...Man, it's rough. Trying to build a dungeon group, leveling, the rotation (prot paladin 969 is the epitome of boring), juggling hit and defense caps, etc. etc. etc. It's just not as good a game as DF is, in MY opinion. I'll always have a soft spot for it, but I'm glad the game has moved on.

[HansOlo]

I think the stock price is relevant to how the market thinks the game is performing, but Blizzard has too many games under their umbrella to pinpoint any one game as being THE reason behind the stock moving up or down or NOT moving up or down. It would be one thing if Blizzard announced that "we're discontinuing WoW" and then there was a huge stock move in either direction.

But that has nothing to do with the topic of the thread, which is about whether there is enough content in DF to keep people busy.

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Oh, I agree, if DF was a complete flop we'd see a hit to Blizzard stock price, all things being equal. But that's not the subject of the thread. I also think all things aren't equal, since the potential Microsoft acquisition is probably the single most important factor in the stock price right now.

We need to define succes. DF might also be intentionally designed to "be boring". We don't know if it is, maybe the current demographic target, really enjoys it.

That may reflect to the stocks. And that's called success.

I don't know about you guys, but I think that WoW is a pretty good gold mine for Blizard. They can only milk Diablo and CoD to a span of few years per major release.