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  1. #921
    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    Do you really think you can boss me around with after our conversations?

    Quartly reports affects the stock market. It doesn't tell you how fun the game is, but you might have an indication of how the business is. Blizzard is doing just fine, regardless whatever shitstorm they been in. Essentially, they are somewhat reaching thier target(i.e 3M subs might be low for you, but it might be enough for them to run the business).

    If people wants to speculate - they should back it up with the stocks. It very healthy for the discussion, it's a classic approach and it's existential for the business(Bobby K is measured on this metric).

    If WoW was about to die, the first signs will be in the stocks.

    Equally - if Square Enix stocks dropped - you might speculate, how that will affect FF in case it lacks funding(depending on the strategy, making it P2W, subs or something else. And then you speculate in the consequences).
    Please provide a link to the world of warcraft stock on the stock exchange. No one is bossing you around, you are evading the question and answering something no one asked. Your logic completely falls apart when you consider there is no wow stock. Wow could shut down and the stock could still gain value due to other products, other releases, the reduced operational costs increasing profits, etc.

    You also fail to understand that stocks are impacted to a far greater degree by external factors. So the stocks could dramatically change without wow or any of the many other games under the same umbrella being a factor at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    In no way are you entitled to the 'complete' game when you buy it, because DLC/cosmetics and so on are there for companies to make more money
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Others, including myself, are saying that they only exist because Blizzard needed to create things so they could monetize it.

  2. #922
    Blizzard's stock price is irrelevant to whether there's enough to do for different types of players in Dragonflight.

  3. #923
    Quote Originally Posted by Thirtyrock View Post
    Blizzard's stock price is irrelevant to whether there's enough to do for different types of players in Dragonflight.
    Not just that, but they are not a direct reflection of wows status at all. If blizzard were listed and only had wow, nothing else, sure, there would be a strong connection between the two.

    But again, even then, external factors can contribute FAR more to stocks than the product itself. Entertainment in general saw HUGE growth during the pandemic, but had very little to do with the products themselves, but rather people being locked up at home with nothing to do, and in many cases, "free" (yeah right) money from the government.

    The pandemic showed this better than anything recently - my brother in law owned a company that specialize in cloud solutions and networks for big business. The value went through the fucking roof over the last 3 years, and sold it for exponentially more than it was worth even 1 year ago at the end of last year. He retired at 38. Their product and service was great, and he worked very hard for a long time to get it to that position, but without the pandemic, it would be worth 10% of what he sold it for.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    In no way are you entitled to the 'complete' game when you buy it, because DLC/cosmetics and so on are there for companies to make more money
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Others, including myself, are saying that they only exist because Blizzard needed to create things so they could monetize it.

  4. #924
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arai View Post
    The game is getting really stale. I tried M+ with some alts after my main was geared and I had my 2.75k+ rating but its just so boring and the balance sucks hard. Just had a +18 Jade key on Fortified. Invited a 415 Druid Tank with 2.45k io. He got oneshot (100% in 0.5 sec) twice in the room of the 3rd boss and rage quit after that.
    Im simply not gonna bother with this bullshit, the game isnt fun enough that I deal with crap balancing, shitty affixes and boring dungeons. I already regret buying a month of gametime yesterday but wanted to loot the Vault. They REALLY need to step up their game with content.
    I mostly share this sentiment. While DF has fixed some of its predecessors' most glaring issues, all these fixes are purely negative, i.e. no borrowed power, no idiotic systems like Choreghast, or a story that, lame as it is, at least isn't actively offensive.

    But DF is sorely lacking positive incentives to play. I already went through WoD, aka the raid logger paradise, and I would rather not play that kind of game again, even if DF might apparently have more content than WoD... More raids and a (mega) dungeon /yawn

  5. #925
    Elemental Lord sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Every chance, literally every chance you give players to not be social they take with both arms.
    The notion that players want to be social is complete bullshit. Every time you give players the choice not to interact with another human being they take it.
    the idea that we didn't evolve in first place is blasphemy, i know how i myself changed massively from when i started wow (for start, i actually perfected english while back then i didn't know how to talk)
    i love Grim Fandango for example, but i can't even stomach playing it now, most old games had very horrible limitation due to technology, easiest example is how Silent Hill 2 is probably most scariest game, yet most ppl if they play it now it will barely phase them due to how outdated its graphics

    MMO as genre itself built on massively consuming time dedicated to 1 game with small rewards in it is dead, if wrath launched today for first time it won't even get 6 million because we don't want that anymore, i love wrath, best time of my miserable life ever, but it is perfect because it was 2009, 2023 exact same game won't work

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Thirtyrock View Post
    Blizzard's stock price is irrelevant to whether there's enough to do for different types of players in Dragonflight.
    they do, but not as ppl think
    due to inflation, almost everyone is reporting 'break record high' profits, in reality they aren't, easiest example how every movie love to gloat about 100+ million profit, while nowadays having a 100m budget is seen relatively ok in first place
    so while blizz - and every cooperation - is reporting a 'record profit' every quarter last couple of years, it isn't because they doing better, they doing even worse than ever, but because inflation made 1$ far easier to get than ever
    so stock price mater but adjust it to inflation, and blizz stock will drop below than ever (also microsoft plan to takeover did increase stock value)
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
    Thrall
    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  6. #926
    The game is just stale and worn out at this point.

  7. #927
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Please provide a link to the world of warcraft stock on the stock exchange. No one is bossing you around, you are evading the question and answering something no one asked. Your logic completely falls apart when you consider there is no wow stock. Wow could shut down and the stock could still gain value due to other products, other releases, the reduced operational costs increasing profits, etc.

    You also fail to understand that stocks are impacted to a far greater degree by external factors. So the stocks could dramatically change without wow or any of the many other games under the same umbrella being a factor at all.
    I obviously talk about Blizzard and not WoW stock. You are just being personal for the sake of it. And stop with the prove me a link cliche responds.

    But if the stock didn't drop, in fact doing pretty well, this tells me that Blizzard is doing just fine. That also means DF is doing fine.

    It's my own speculation, but atleast it's based on metrics. Instead of listening to Bellular, I believe this is a better standard for discussions.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Thirtyrock View Post
    Blizzard's stock price is irrelevant to whether there's enough to do for different types of players in Dragonflight.
    We are talking about the meta perspective. If the stock dropped significantly(caused by bad DF sales), the expected outcome would be change in the product. But thats my own speculation.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    the idea that we didn't evolve in first place is blasphemy, i know how i myself changed massively from when i started wow (for start, i actually perfected english while back then i didn't know how to talk)
    i love Grim Fandango for example, but i can't even stomach playing it now, most old games had very horrible limitation due to technology, easiest example is how Silent Hill 2 is probably most scariest game, yet most ppl if they play it now it will barely phase them due to how outdated its graphics

    MMO as genre itself built on massively consuming time dedicated to 1 game with small rewards in it is dead, if wrath launched today for first time it won't even get 6 million because we don't want that anymore, i love wrath, best time of my miserable life ever, but it is perfect because it was 2009, 2023 exact same game won't work

    - - - Updated - - -


    they do, but not as ppl think
    due to inflation, almost everyone is reporting 'break record high' profits, in reality they aren't, easiest example how every movie love to gloat about 100+ million profit, while nowadays having a 100m budget is seen relatively ok in first place
    so while blizz - and every cooperation - is reporting a 'record profit' every quarter last couple of years, it isn't because they doing better, they doing even worse than ever, but because inflation made 1$ far easier to get than ever
    so stock price mater but adjust it to inflation, and blizz stock will drop below than ever (also microsoft plan to takeover did increase stock value)
    It's all relative to the market and inflation, as long as they reach target goals? Just like any company in the industry, you are measured by growth and not only profit.

    Obviously if WoW sucked hard and people dismissed it, it would be very easy to find that information in the stock market.
    Last edited by HansOlo; 2023-03-09 at 02:23 PM.

  8. #928
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    they do, but not as ppl think
    due to inflation, almost everyone is reporting 'break record high' profits, in reality they aren't, easiest example how every movie love to gloat about 100+ million profit, while nowadays having a 100m budget is seen relatively ok in first place
    so while blizz - and every cooperation - is reporting a 'record profit' every quarter last couple of years, it isn't because they doing better, they doing even worse than ever, but because inflation made 1$ far easier to get than ever
    so stock price mater but adjust it to inflation, and blizz stock will drop below than ever (also microsoft plan to takeover did increase stock value)
    I think the stock price is relevant to how the market thinks the game is performing, but Blizzard has too many games under their umbrella to pinpoint any one game as being THE reason behind the stock moving up or down or NOT moving up or down. It would be one thing if Blizzard announced that "we're discontinuing WoW" and then there was a huge stock move in either direction.

    But that has nothing to do with the topic of the thread, which is about whether there is enough content in DF to keep people busy.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    We are talking about the meta perspective. If the stock dropped significantly(caused by bad DF sales), the expected outcome would be change in the product. But thats my own speculation.

    - - - Updated - - -
    Oh, I agree, if DF was a complete flop we'd see a hit to Blizzard stock price, all things being equal. But that's not the subject of the thread. I also think all things aren't equal, since the potential Microsoft acquisition is probably the single most important factor in the stock price right now.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    the idea that we didn't evolve in first place is blasphemy, i know how i myself changed massively from when i started wow (for start, i actually perfected english while back then i didn't know how to talk)
    i love Grim Fandango for example, but i can't even stomach playing it now, most old games had very horrible limitation due to technology, easiest example is how Silent Hill 2 is probably most scariest game, yet most ppl if they play it now it will barely phase them due to how outdated its graphics

    MMO as genre itself built on massively consuming time dedicated to 1 game with small rewards in it is dead, if wrath launched today for first time it won't even get 6 million because we don't want that anymore, i love wrath, best time of my miserable life ever, but it is perfect because it was 2009, 2023 exact same game won't work
    I think you can see this, quite easily, in how the community has responded to WoW Classic. A lot of us tried it and realized that we didn't enjoy it nearly as much today as we did the first time around. Too many quality of life things were added, the systems were improved, etc. I LOVED Wrath when I played it. It was my first experience with an MMO and my first experience raiding and my first experience with a guild. But playing it now...Man, it's rough. Trying to build a dungeon group, leveling, the rotation (prot paladin 969 is the epitome of boring), juggling hit and defense caps, etc. etc. etc. It's just not as good a game as DF is, in MY opinion. I'll always have a soft spot for it, but I'm glad the game has moved on.

  9. #929
    Quote Originally Posted by Thirtyrock View Post
    I think the stock price is relevant to how the market thinks the game is performing, but Blizzard has too many games under their umbrella to pinpoint any one game as being THE reason behind the stock moving up or down or NOT moving up or down. It would be one thing if Blizzard announced that "we're discontinuing WoW" and then there was a huge stock move in either direction.

    But that has nothing to do with the topic of the thread, which is about whether there is enough content in DF to keep people busy.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Oh, I agree, if DF was a complete flop we'd see a hit to Blizzard stock price, all things being equal. But that's not the subject of the thread. I also think all things aren't equal, since the potential Microsoft acquisition is probably the single most important factor in the stock price right now.
    We need to define succes. DF might also be intentionally designed to "be boring". We don't know if it is, maybe the current demographic target, really enjoys it.

    That may reflect to the stocks. And that's called success.

    I don't know about you guys, but I think that WoW is a pretty good gold mine for Blizard. They can only milk Diablo and CoD to a span of few years per major release.

  10. #930
    Elemental Lord sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    I obviously talk about Blizzard and not WoW stock. You are just being personal for the sake of it. And stop with the prove me a link cliche responds.

    But if the stock didn't drop, in fact doing pretty well, this tells me that Blizzard is doing just fine. That also means DF is doing fine.

    It's my own speculation, but atleast it's based on metrics. Instead of listening to Bellular, I believe this is a better standard for discussions.

    - - - Updated - - -



    We are talking about the meta perspective. If the stock dropped significantly(caused by bad DF sales), the expected outcome would be change in the product. But thats my own speculation.

    - - - Updated - - -



    It's all relative to the market and inflation, as long as they reach target goals? Just like any company in the industry, you are measured by growth and not only profit.

    Obviously if WoW sucked hard and people dismissed it, it would be very easy to find that information in the stock market.
    warcraft isn't just wow, it is ip that invest with it hearthstone, and hearthstone is literal profit from nothing, compare to effort hearthstone is 1 step away from printing money for blizz, even if they now aren't as good as they used to 2 years ago
    no company stupid enough to suicide PR say they sucking or ship is drowning until it is way too late, they aren't good, but microsoft move alone may save and fix all their problems, and they aren't bad so far because they getting payed 69 billion (nice!) for the entire cooperation, heck Konami has far more legacy ips that will print money under right user and they don't even value half that much
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
    Thrall
    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  11. #931
    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    We need to define succes. DF might also be intentionally designed to "be boring". We don't know if it is, maybe the current demographic target, really enjoys it.

    That may reflect to the stocks. And that's called success.

    I don't know about you guys, but I think that WoW is a pretty good gold mine for Blizard. They can only milk Diablo and CoD to a span of few years per major release.
    Haha, I agree with you in most cases.

    I also think that the updates to gear progression in 10.1 will help alleviate the feeling that there isn't any MEANINGFUL content for casual/solo players. I think the way they're actively trying to provide more gear progression without making it feel mandatory for raiders/M+ players is amazing! It seems pretty obvious to me that they are actively working to find that balance where all content is meaningful and all content is optional that I've been advocating for.

  12. #932
    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    I obviously talk about Blizzard and not WoW stock. You are just being personal for the sake of it. And stop with the prove me a link cliche responds.

    But if the stock didn't drop, in fact doing pretty well, this tells me that Blizzard is doing just fine. That also means DF is doing fine.

    It's my own speculation, but atleast it's based on metrics. Instead of listening to Bellular, I believe this is a better standard for discussions.
    This is your mistake, myself and others have explained to you why that is not logical at all. You are drawing conclusions that fit your narrative, even when it is explained that the logic is flawed. Again, even if there was a publicly listed company with only ONE game, external factors can contribute to the fluctuation of share prices just as much if not more than the product itself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    In no way are you entitled to the 'complete' game when you buy it, because DLC/cosmetics and so on are there for companies to make more money
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Others, including myself, are saying that they only exist because Blizzard needed to create things so they could monetize it.

  13. #933
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    This is your mistake, myself and others have explained to you why that is not logical at all. You are drawing conclusions that fit your narrative, even when it is explained that the logic is flawed. Again, even if there was a publicly listed company with only ONE game, external factors can contribute to the fluctuation of share prices just as much if not more than the product itself.
    Equally, even more confirmed my approach - don't try to measure epeen(and it's not about that). I mean the entire thread is build on speculations. Point is - the stock market is good information source - and people should look into it. If you ask me - it's far more reliable than some API people are making into whatever.

    Nobody is denying external factors and how the portofolio works in a company - it's you putting that narrative on me. Read above and try a different tone.
    Last edited by HansOlo; 2023-03-09 at 11:22 PM.

  14. #934
    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    Equally, even more confirmed my approach - don't try to measure epeen(and it's not about that). I mean the entire thread is build on speculations. Point is - the stock market is good information source - and people should look into it. If you ask me - it's far more reliable than some API people are making into whatever.

    Nobody is denying external factors and how the portofolio works in a company - it's you putting that narrative on me. Read above and try a different tone.
    My tone is fine, you are just having issues accepting being corrected. The stock market is a TERRIBLE way to measure the success or failure of ONE product within a stock that represents multiple products.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    In no way are you entitled to the 'complete' game when you buy it, because DLC/cosmetics and so on are there for companies to make more money
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Others, including myself, are saying that they only exist because Blizzard needed to create things so they could monetize it.

  15. #935
    I quit playing just over two months ago. I have zero interest in even launching the game. I had been an avid player since beta in 2003.

  16. #936

    Thumbs up

    The game just has many systemic problems and the proof of that is that in an internet with multiple times more users since 2006: it now has fewer players than 2006 so: it has practically failed as a game long-term.

    1. Why is there even so much vertical progression for no reason; practically 0% of pvpers want any grinding for gear or class power and pvers can only bear it for a maximum of 2 weeks; any grinding in this game after a few days of new content should be just removed because practically nobody wants it.

    2. The 5man gametype is extremely overused at this point; in a tiny gametype in a game of so many diverse specs: inevitably the metas are extreme; they should support more the middle ground of 10man with its own unique maps to not contaminate the other hard mode maps.

    3. They should just delete the notion of expansions and call it "World of Warcraft" or "Warcraft" period; it makes new players run away; it might be easy to start technically but they don't know that.

    As a result for many of us there's no reason to not be 'Bored' similarly to the OP.
    Last edited by epigramx; 2023-03-10 at 07:52 AM.

  17. #937
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    The game just has many systemic problems and the proof of that is that in an internet with multiple times more users since 2006: it now has fewer players than 2006 so: it has practically failed as a game long-term.

    1. Why is there even so much vertical progression for no reason; practically 0% of pvpers want any grinding for gear or class power and pvers can only bear it for a maximum of 2 weeks; any grinding in this game after a few days of new content should be just removed because practically nobody wants it.

    2. The 5man gametype is extremely overused at this point; in a tiny gametype in a game of so many diverse specs: inevitably the metas are extreme; they should support more the middle ground of 10man with its own unique maps to not contaminate the other hard mode maps.

    3. They should just delete the notion of expansions and call it "World of Warcraft" or "Warcraft" period; it makes new players run away; it might be easy to start technically but they don't know that.

    As a result for many of us there's no reason to not be 'Bored' similarly to the OP.
    In response to #3, this I firmly believe is a huge issue with the game design, IF there intention is to draw in new players. I remember starting a few weeks after launch, and had a friend hooked from day 1. I remember how lost I was when he wasn't online - it was so overwhelming. And that was vanilla. Sure, people can say all the information is available on sites like wowhead, but by then you've already lost them.

    I understand there are issues with it and why it's not good business, but you should be able to walk into a shop(yeah right), buy DF, install it and start playing DF immediately.

    For those who WANT to do all the older expansions, create a new experience using chromie. You select the expansion just like now, and she gives you a magic locket to communicate. Expansion plays out like it did at launch, but it's a more guided experience - pushes you in the right direction, and is designed so you do each dungeon AND raid once, and get to experience the entire expansion. Yes, it would require some form of ai/bot, especially for the raids, but that tech does exist. It would be heavily nerfed to story mode level of difficulty.

    The idea is you get them straight into the current content, and if they get bored of current content, or just curious, they can work through whatever individual expansions interest them. When they have had enough and want to go back, use the item, and return.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    In no way are you entitled to the 'complete' game when you buy it, because DLC/cosmetics and so on are there for companies to make more money
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Others, including myself, are saying that they only exist because Blizzard needed to create things so they could monetize it.

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