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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Talon8669 View Post
    That's where I have been for a long time. I love WoW and I love the feeling of a large persistent world that never really ends. However, I get to a point where i level up a toon, get a decent amount of gear outside of mythic+ and raiding and I kind of see the finish line and I either roll another toon or stop playing. I have like 8 max level toons now and I am sitting here feeling like I am wasting my time. I really do miss the times when i had a ton of friends to play with but everyone moved on. I could try and make new friends but I am not really that social and most of the people I run into in game, I don't really want to socialize with anyways. So unfortunately the time of MMO's and WoW specifically might be coming to an end for me. But hey it is what it is.
    You are wasting your time. Not that it should be a problem. That's the entire point. The complaint there is about the illusion breaking.

    Also, if you're not going to socialize because you don't want to socialize with most people, you just don't want to socialize. That statement is literally always true.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodykiller86 View Post
    ....10s are nothing though go higher...push to higher difficulties on all content. MMOs have always been about pushing yourself to go farther but if you feel what is essentially normal raid lvls of difficulty is enough for you then you're done until the next content patch
    I'm definitely ready for next content patch before i yet again disable my sub. Cycle will continue

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by oldgeezer View Post
    The casual content in DF is quite weird, isn't it? I'm thinking specifically of the soup 'event', the Dragonlame siege (blink and you'll miss it) and the elemental invasion AOE zergfest. Maybe they're testbeds for new content, but I doubt it.
    Nah they're just meaningless content with no rewards that funnel you into the big 3 "rated pvp, raiding, m+" which holds all desirable ilvl content. Maybe if the game was a bit more streamlined since its so edgy and modern they could have world content be valuable, in reality vanilla had better ilvl streamlining than df which is really strange to me.

    But yeah all we do is become hyper competitive ilvl instance runners in WoW which is a shame cuz not everyone wants to equate ilvl = competitivity, and ofc you can still argue that ilvl is accessible to non competitive players but that's a lie cuz low ilvl gear is bad.

    Atleast in Vanilla raiding was a big event that you kinda wanted to take part it, now in modern wow its all pick up plug and play content which gives reason to higher ilvl rewards from world content, and if you think that's a bad idea, it's because the developers didn't develop new ideas for how high ilvl gear would be acquired from world content.

    It's basically been the same drag with low ilvl world quests you do for reputation with a meaningless faction that gives you a battle pet at exalted, it's repetitive and not innovative at all it's boring. And I'm looking at all these sparks of innovation in my bags, thinking, why am I caring about this, I'll outilvl everything from doing instanced content anyways, maybe I'm just too good at the game to enjoy it? The world content is made for people that aren't as skillful as me, they'll need it to enjoy the game.


    BFA had decent world quest rewards, was farming a bad trinket for the entire expansion hoping to get a titanforge proc or whatever it wasn't much but atleast it was something at all LOL, and yeah visions was good ilvl too.

    Anyway Valdrakken is a terrible lobby, I miss Oribos for my afking into instance groups all day.

    Also, I remember seeing the world map concept before Shadowlands release, and I had this naive expectation much cuz of how Torghast was announced, that World Content would matter and that it would be more visceral in nature, and it was to some degree(the maw) but oh boy was I disappointed when all rewards lead into battle pets and transmogs.

    And Torghast? could have had queue option, could have had a loot table, could have been interesting, but nah, was just a tedious quest to get a legendary which might have been exciting at first and then because Blizzard is so genuinely bad at designing WoW at this point, ofcourse it was a drag throughout the expansion, and the reward in later patches?

    CONGRATULATIONS PLAYERS,

    Conduit energy has been removed!
    Can now send torghast currencies to alts
    Gates are now gone Wohooo!

    I guess the biggest content update we all can look forward to is an end to the intended frustration.
    It's like a heroin dealer giving you a sample every friday, keep you hooked and it's not for the love of the community, it's really to frustrate us because they know we love WoW, so they might aswell abuse us as much as possible.

    And they're getting better at it!


    Aaaaand, it's a nice formula they've got going, make the game really interesting for new/casual players reduce skill impact and up automatic class power, have all this grindable content accessible at start of expansion, keep the token sales going.

    Really a good balance between the gold farmers and the players that buy gold.
    But obviously everyone will get bored and unsubscribe and the game will be more catered to the hardcore gamer post mid expansion.
    XD
    Last edited by nvaelz; 2023-01-25 at 03:28 PM.
    Writes insightful, well-mannered posts in the Community Council.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackrunner01 View Post
    I mean yeah, there's not much PVE content to do in the game when you actively refuse to raiding and M+.

    It would probably take me 8 hours to reach 391 ILVL upon dinging on an alt, so I can see why you feel stuck in a rut after 2 months.
    Maybe the game just isn't for you anymore bro
    The world are more alive than ever before though, plenty of stuff out there at Dragon isle. Depends what you like to do.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormwolf64 View Post
    That is for you to figure out



    Dumbest thing i've heard. Go back to playing xD
    i guess but the reality of MMOs is repetetive content. 1 time content is the campaign and side quests and such...everything else is going to be repetitive to some degree. So idk how its dumb when thats the reality of pretty much ALL MMOs in history of gaming lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by nvaelz View Post
    Nah they're just meaningless content with no rewards that funnel you into the big 3 "rated pvp, raiding, m+" which holds all desirable ilvl content. Maybe if the game was a bit more streamlined since its so edgy and modern they could have world content be valuable, in reality vanilla had better ilvl streamlining than df which is really strange to me.

    But yeah all we do is become hyper competitive ilvl instance runners in WoW which is a shame cuz not everyone wants to equate ilvl = competitivity, and ofc you can still argue that ilvl is accessible to non competitive players but that's a lie cuz low ilvl gear is bad.

    Atleast in Vanilla raiding was a big event that you kinda wanted to take part it, now in modern wow its all pick up plug and play content which gives reason to higher ilvl rewards from world content, and if you think that's a bad idea, it's because the developers didn't develop new ideas for how high ilvl gear would be acquired from world content.

    It's basically been the same drag with low ilvl world quests you do for reputation with a meaningless faction that gives you a battle pet at exalted, it's repetitive and not innovative at all it's boring. And I'm looking at all these sparks of innovation in my bags, thinking, why am I caring about this, I'll outilvl everything from doing instanced content anyways, maybe I'm just too good at the game to enjoy it? The world content is made for people that aren't as skillful as me, they'll need it to enjoy the game.


    BFA had decent world quest rewards, was farming a bad trinket for the entire expansion hoping to get a titanforge proc or whatever it wasn't much but atleast it was something at all LOL, and yeah visions was good ilvl too.

    Anyway Valdrakken is a terrible lobby, I miss Oribos for my afking into instance groups all day.
    do you seriously think open world content should gear you up to lvls = from the pillars of the game? because if so thats ridiculous lol tbf theyre giving the highest ilvl gear ever from open world content since WoWs inception i believe and its pretty close to normal raid ilvl from the 1st 3 bosses so im not sure what more you expect. Unless they add some hard as fuck open world event i dont see how you expect them to do more.

    Plus by doing all the world quests and such you can get primal chaos and build the base 5 star versions of a bunch of crafted pieces with sparks and get yourself closer to 390ish

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by nvaelz View Post
    Or maybe the game is bad, and you can't see that.
    This exactly.

  7. #87
    Epic!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    unlike the "good old" wow, where you were pretty much just raidloging after a month... so much more interesting...
    Peak time for me! If I got bored, I had an alt that I would level, then do dungeons, then pug raids. Can’t really do that now since to be taken serious as a raider, I need to do keys. Na, too much time now

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodykiller86 View Post
    i guess but the reality of MMOs is repetetive content. 1 time content is the campaign and side quests and such...everything else is going to be repetitive to some degree. So idk how its dumb when thats the reality of pretty much ALL MMOs in history of gaming lol

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    do you seriously think open world content should gear you up to lvls = from the pillars of the game? because if so thats ridiculous lol tbf theyre giving the highest ilvl gear ever from open world content since WoWs inception i believe and its pretty close to normal raid ilvl from the 1st 3 bosses so im not sure what more you expect. Unless they add some hard as fuck open world event i dont see how you expect them to do more.

    Plus by doing all the world quests and such you can get primal chaos and build the base 5 star versions of a bunch of crafted pieces with sparks and get yourself closer to 390ish
    Oh they're so generous capping ilvl at 384 or whatever(if you're lucky) from world content, which is very not close to 420+ ilvl, and you can just skip that and play the instanced content straight away, why even bother doing world content, it's for casual players that "obviously enjoy the world content" until they are bored cuz all they can do is push keys, sure you can upgrade yourself to 395 after afking out the entire gated process from sparks of innovation but what after that? just queue m+ already, why wait, just farm that all day 100% of the time.

    Oh I wish I was so bad I could enjoy capping at 395 ilvl when other players are 420+ then I'd enjoy world content for sure!


    ITS SO HILARIOUS

    "Pillars of the game" Like m+ was a pillar of the game, OK m8, I guess game has changed and can never change again,
    We may never have a new pillar introduced, it's impossible, game is perfect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soikona View Post
    Peak time for me! If I got bored, I had an alt that I would level, then do dungeons, then pug raids. Can’t really do that now since to be taken serious as a raider, I need to do keys. Na, too much time now
    Ok lemme just quote this guy that quoted you about "raidlogging" are you seriously that daft? raidlogging is a new construct, it was not relevant when Vanilla was actually introduced and I hope it perishes with time.

    Yeah vanilla was better and more fun and an adventure for everyone, streamlined like that.

    Now all you do is go into the toxic MDI competitive mental state of "smart people" that only care about that, so yeah game is dead for everyone outside that "bubble" .


    People could just join in some singularity and not care about being competitive, but the game is designed around competition so, we're not going to accomplish that. Thanks Blizzard for being such nasty dogs.
    Last edited by nvaelz; 2023-01-25 at 03:50 PM.
    Writes insightful, well-mannered posts in the Community Council.

  9. #89
    I played the 3 day trial and it was pretty good but the cost investment every two years plus the monthly fee is way too much to ask for a single game imo so I won't be going back to WoW unless it becomes way cheaper.
    Super Mario Maker 2: Maker ID 8B7-CTF-NMG

    - The subscription for WoW will be added to Gamepass Ultimate at no additional cost, mark my words.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    Also - what differenciate wow from other MMORPGs that makes it not a MMORPG?
    The problem with this question is that the definition of "MMORPG" has been warped by WoW, itself.

    Before WoW and EQ, grouping was a niche activity in MMO's. It was supported, of course, but it wasn't the core of the game. Neither were instances. The whole point of "Massively Multiplayer" was that you were in a world populated by other real people whom you could interact with. Much of those interactions were more like real life, actually, with people playing as shopkeeps and entertainers rather than as fighters. In SWG you could play all year long and never kill a single thing yet still be the most well-known player on your server, whether because you sold the best weapons, had the greatest art collection, or were the most entertaining dancer in the cantina.

    Again, in earlier MMOs grouping was possible, but never required. And instances barely existed.

    EQ made mandatory grouping a thing. It was extremely hard to get anywhere in that game by yourself. And this appealed to a good portion of people! But it was also the only game with this paradigm so naturally, everyone who wanted forced grouping made their way to it.

    WoW, having been developed by a number of the people from EQ, followed this trend. But with vanilla, raiding was really still a niche activity that few people knew about at first because most people still hadn't played EQ.

    But, as WoW became a cultural touchstone and more people discovered raiding, it became the "hot thing" and with TBC was incorporated as the primary function of WoW ... again, because that's what the devs wanted to do. They were all EQ raiders.

    TLDR: Grouping, raiding, instanced dungeons ... none of this was really a huge thing until WoW and as time has gone by WoW has made those things the focus. But they had nothing to do with what an MMO was, until WoW made them a thing. Your perception is colored by what WoW has done to the MMO genre, as everyone tried to imitate WoW's success and nearly everyone failed because raids and instances is really not what most people want. MMOs should have remained a niche genre that appealed to people who wanted a massive world full of people, not a lobby to sit in while waiting for a raid instance.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by nvaelz View Post
    Or maybe the game is bad, and you can't see that.
    Prove it. You can't. It's a matter of taste, opinion etc.
    I <3 JK Rowling.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    Dragonflight is absolutely better than Shittylands.
    Damning with faint praise.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    Been playing WoW since launch all these years, and it's a fav game of mine obviously. But I've had my off times and addicted times to the game, but all these years I typically still play nightly if just for 30 to 45 minutes.

    Use to Raid and play [H]ardcore from MoP through Legion, playing hours a night, but those times are gone.

    Anyways, Dragonflight, was so excited to get a new expansion after Shadowlands, which I found depressing and lame, and so far DF is an upgrade and feels fun and looks great. But...2 months later after Dragonflights release, I'm getting bored already. My main is iLvl 391, and I have another at i360+, and several alts in the level 60+ level range. But right now, I just feel stuck in a rut in the game, not interested in getting my main any higher gear at this point, I'm happy enough doing M+10, but not higher, and I stopped Raiding long ago.

    My alts, I was progressing getting most of them to level 65 or so, but now it feels like a grind to push them to all to 70.

    I know there's the patch today, which will help give something new to do, which is great for WoW, they need mini patches like this often. Because without today's patch I prob would unsub for a bit.

    I would say the last expansion I was truly addicted to and LOVED was Legion, that one had so much to do outside of just Raids, the Class Halls, the artifact weapon appearances, the Class mounts, I felt like I always had something to do in Legion.

    Thing is, I do like Dragonflight, it's beautiful to look at, and I am enjoying it, but I feel like I hit a wall of boredom quicker than usual in a new expansion.
    this happens when game offers 0 out of instance endgame progression .

    DF is collosal failure and anyone sane sees it.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by fazaim View Post
    It's a great time to get into PvP actually.
    How *is* casual PvP now? I mean, just signing up for non-rated BGs?
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by nvaelz View Post

    Ok lemme just quote this guy that quoted you about "raidlogging" are you seriously that daft? raidlogging is a new construct, it was not relevant when Vanilla was actually introduced and I hope it perishes with time.
    How bad are you? Classic/TBC/WoTLK are the epitomes of raid logging..what game were you playing? Or what game are the classic dudes playing?

    Again, mmo-champion showing its clueless.

    Just because you took 500 hours to do what took 50 hours in WoTLK, as example, does not make you correct, why cant you people understand that you are simply not as good, or relevant to the game as you believe you are?

    Game is sped up, to the point where if one of my friend quits for a season, i can help him play with me in less than 2 weeks, thats what the game has been about for expansions now..10 years or so?

    The returning player, catching up and being able to raid is more relevant than the "clueless little bob" that takes 200 hours to reach 350 ilvl.
    Last edited by potis; 2023-01-25 at 06:44 PM.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    this happens when game offers 0 out of instance endgame progression .

    DF is collosal failure and anyone sane sees it.

    Yep.

    Curious with Legion being the lone Wolf expansion that actually provided plenty to do outside of the boring Raid or die crap in WoW, why doesn't Blizzard do a Legion 2.0 expansion? I don't mean storyline wise, but with Class Halls, and Class Mounts, and Artifact weapon appearances, and Mage Tower for special unique class only items for a limited time.

    What's the feedback that the developers got from that stuff in Legion, and doing something similar again?
    Last edited by Zorachus; 2023-01-25 at 07:18 PM.

  17. #97
    i believe that removing sistems from legion to SL was a contributing factor to this, that and the mediocre content you got outside of raids and mythics. never really thought id see a thread asking for mission table tbh, and i had nothing agaisnt the mission table. im not some pretender or a hater, i grew up with this game and have very fond memories from every expansion, i;ve made friends here and we still keep in touch but it is a bit sad to see how this game bleeds. (im not saying its dead m8s dont worry).
    There is a void in my heart. Have you come to fill it?

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    How bad are you? Classic/TBC/WoTLK are the epitomes of raid logging..what game were you playing? Or what game are the classic dudes playing?

    Again, mmo-champion showing its clueless.

    Just because you took 500 hours to do what took 50 hours in WoTLK, as example, does not make you correct, why cant you people understand that you are simply not as good, or relevant to the game as you believe you are?

    Game is sped up, to the point where if one of my friend quits for a season, i can help him play with me in less than 2 weeks, thats what the game has been about for expansions now..10 years or so?

    The returning player, catching up and being able to raid is more relevant than the "clueless little bob" that takes 200 hours to reach 350 ilvl.
    Yeah exactly, the clueless little bob that buys the game enjoys it and plays it up to 384 ilvl and then has a bit of fun in m+/raid/pvp before quitting cuz the game turns into an uphill battle and they also realize it's ultra competitive and would take away all their time, cuz they can't themselves decide when to play all the time.

    It's very observant of you to assume that it takes me 500 hours to gear, I know this game and I gear very fast.

    What I meant was that earlier and earlier in WoW history the speedracing and raidlogging was less relevant to the fun of the player, Vanilla is a good example cuz it was a fun long adventure, the gearing progression was also better, nowadays it's all just a meme, if you wanna take this game for what it is now, RUSH PAST ALL CONTENT, RUN INTO the big 3, GEAR GEAR GEAR.

    And if you wanna take the next step, just afk until mid season and then gear, save yourself the hassle of speedrunning past everyone when it won't matter anyway since the catchup mechanics, only sockets matter.

    There's LESS world content now than ever before, if you only take player power into account.
    All world content is lame af and only made for newcomers/casuals so it's such a fake game and it only leads into instanced content.
    Last edited by nvaelz; 2023-01-25 at 07:23 PM.
    Writes insightful, well-mannered posts in the Community Council.

  19. #99
    Was just Google searching how many WoW players actually Raid still, and looking up half a dozen sites dated 2021 / 2022, they all had similar answers saying approx. 10% to 15% of WoW subscribers Raid.

    So...with such a low % of players doing Raids, why spend so much money on it, and make it a big feature? I'd be fine if Raids were eliminated for good next expansion, and instead have the developers make something brand new for end game, that isn't instanced, and can incorporate a much larger % of the player base.

  20. #100
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaetha View Post
    You are wasting your time. Not that it should be a problem. That's the entire point. The complaint there is about the illusion breaking.

    Also, if you're not going to socialize because you don't want to socialize with most people, you just don't want to socialize. That statement is literally always true.
    Wow I never thought about it like that. Thanks Sport!

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