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  1. #101
    I played 31 minutes before uninstalling and getting a refund xD

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    Was just Google searching how many WoW players actually Raid still, and looking up half a dozen sites dated 2021 / 2022, they all had similar answers saying approx. 10% to 15% of WoW subscribers Raid.

    So...with such a low % of players doing Raids, why spend so much money on it, and make it a big feature? I'd be fine if Raids were eliminated for good next expansion, and instead have the developers make something brand new for end game, that isn't instanced, and can incorporate a much larger % of the player base.
    I'd like if they kept all those things that players love, but also introduced more relevant content for everyone else, lol.
    I partake in the instanced content, I'm fine, I just see that there's a dysfunctional element in WoW, there's nothing leading the playerbase together anymore, it's really sad.

    Like you have your boxes of people, those people pvp, those people raid/m+, world content is dead, there's roads between the boxes, you can gear from either and gear in the other kinda, but there's no MIDDLE GROUND for everyone to partake in where the real game is, it's all just boxed up and lame af, so that's why eventually, (GAME IS DESIGNED LIKE THIS) you just afk and queue instanced content, lame.

    And, I'm not quoting you on this m8,
    Some people are so potato daft that they can't conceive a reality where you can enjoy gearing from instanced AND world content, like it's impossible because it's not in the present, it's a lack of imagination really.
    Last edited by nvaelz; 2023-01-25 at 07:39 PM.
    Writes insightful, well-mannered posts in the Community Council.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by nvaelz View Post
    Oh they're so generous capping ilvl at 384 or whatever(if you're lucky) from world content, which is very not close to 420+ ilvl, and you can just skip that and play the instanced content straight away, why even bother doing world content, it's for casual players that "obviously enjoy the world content" until they are bored cuz all they can do is push keys, sure you can upgrade yourself to 395 after afking out the entire gated process from sparks of innovation but what after that? just queue m+ already, why wait, just farm that all day 100% of the time.

    Oh I wish I was so bad I could enjoy capping at 395 ilvl when other players are 420+ then I'd enjoy world content for sure!


    ITS SO HILARIOUS

    "Pillars of the game" Like m+ was a pillar of the game, OK m8, I guess game has changed and can never change again,
    We may never have a new pillar introduced, it's impossible, game is perfect.

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    Ok lemme just quote this guy that quoted you about "raidlogging" are you seriously that daft? raidlogging is a new construct, it was not relevant when Vanilla was actually introduced and I hope it perishes with time.

    Yeah vanilla was better and more fun and an adventure for everyone, streamlined like that.

    Now all you do is go into the toxic MDI competitive mental state of "smart people" that only care about that, so yeah game is dead for everyone outside that "bubble" .


    People could just join in some singularity and not care about being competitive, but the game is designed around competition so, we're not going to accomplish that. Thanks Blizzard for being such nasty dogs.
    420 is mythic ilvl.....you expect 415+ilvl gear from world content? thats ridiculous. You can even push closer to 400 with capping all the reps and getting the upgrade item for crafted gear. so yes world content going as high as normal raid ilvl i believe is perfectly adequate. you can reach low 390s with storm gear and crafted spark pieces and if you run mythic raid and higher keys you can go higher...so you're complaining about having to do content.....sigh

    also m+ is just the new dungeons. before you could only get lower level gear from spamming dungeons that would get you gear that was close or equal to normal level gear from raids...so what exactly are you complaining about here?

    Yes they should add more world content but currently this is the best iteration they have ever added but they can definitely add more and improve

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    Was just Google searching how many WoW players actually Raid still, and looking up half a dozen sites dated 2021 / 2022, they all had similar answers saying approx. 10% to 15% of WoW subscribers Raid.

    So...with such a low % of players doing Raids, why spend so much money on it, and make it a big feature? I'd be fine if Raids were eliminated for good next expansion, and instead have the developers make something brand new for end game, that isn't instanced, and can incorporate a much larger % of the player base.
    this is such a dumb ass statement lol you dont remove a whole pillar of gaming you add to it.

  4. #104
    I used to Raid from Mop through Legion and LOVED it, but man it was time consuming and at times very stressful, if we wiped some Guild members would get very mad. Other times run a Raid for 3+ hours and get zero gear. But overall I really enjoyed my time, and have fond memories of those times in WoW.

    But then I just couldn't waste my time to just sit in my chair for 3 to 4 hours, clicking my mouse killing meaningless video game monsters. Just a waste of my life sitting in the chair doing nothing meaningful for several hours. So I quit doing that.

    Now I enjoy much quicker content, a fast M+ run for 30+ minutes is more my thing. Or World Boss for 2 minutes or a few WQs in 15 minutes. I like lesser time content, as opposed to a whopping 3 to 4 hours needed to Raid.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by KOUNTERPARTS View Post
    In one breath you say you are content with no actively participating deeper in content, and in that same breath you create a thread saying you are now bored this early into the expansion.


    I mean, I get it. Don't force yourself to do content you don't enjoy. But I don't understand the "I have nothing to do, I'm bored" excuse when you already acknowledge you are refusing to engage in other content. That means you are not enjoying the game as it currently is.


    Move on already.


    If you're goal was to attract posters who feel the same way, that's all you'll do. But all of you will never actually do anything about it.
    Yeah, people like this just need to move on to something else. don't get why they suffer when they ultimately don't enjoy the game anymore.

    "My memory... since when? If everything is a dream, don't wake me." -Cloud Strife, Final Fantasy VII

  6. #106
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    But now two months in, it feels a bit shallow, like others have said if you don't Raid or M+, there really isn't a whole heck of a lot to do otherwise. Where in Legion, you could skip those two big attractions and still have stuff to do..
    What could you do in legion if you didnt raid, M+, or PVP, that you can't do in dragonflight?
    Cause dragonflight has MORE to do then legion did at this point outside of the 3 major pillers.
    I feel like the others are correct, you have outgrown wow, no matter what you just won't be able to recapture that, especially as you don't want to raid, which is self admitted when you were happiest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    How *is* casual PvP now? I mean, just signing up for non-rated BGs?
    Arena skirmish, solo shuffle, brawls, warmode. there is a fair bit of casual pvp.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    All true enough but if Blizzard is truly committed to "play the game your own way" knowing that there are players like this and why they are bored isn't a bad thing.
    The funny thing is, some changes would be so easy for them to make.

    For instance, having Chromie time not automatically end at 60 to let lower level content be evergreen for people who like questing in the world. I love the ability to level fast (for instance, when I want a class on a different race and don't want to pay a race change). But one immense piece of "solo, open world" content WoW has is leveling. And 95% of that content is completely dead outside of a few people going back to grind achievements.

    Another big thing is making old raids soloable. The "old content" is pretty much the exact same it has been since the end of BFA. I've been able to solo, to varying degrees, Legion raids for the last few expansions. If they just put a tiny amount of effort into that, people bored now could be soloing SL dungeons and BFA raids.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaneiac View Post
    This game isn't about your friends, though. This game is about taking it seriously enough that you do the hardest content no matter what it takes (transferring, etc), lasting friendships and other elements be damned. /s

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    How *is* casual PvP now? I mean, just signing up for non-rated BGs?
    Fine to gear your tunes quickly and to slay with new conq gear, but I mean, there will always be the frustration of uncoordinated teams outside of rated.

  9. #109
    I see the same tired old "you just outgrew the game" excuse again and again. I saw it when everyone I played with quit during SL. It was clearly explained to me that everyone quit because we were all burnt out on wow.

    Only issue is, this group I was talking about, had people in the following ranges:

    Started between vanilla and legion
    Aged between 19 and 56
    60 hour weeks - unemployed
    Raid logger - 8+ hour / day
    Pvp/PvE - PvE only
    Altaholic - main only

    The Only common denominator was we ALL stopped playing during SL.

    Sure, some absolutely need a break or are just over MMOs. But to pretend that applies to EVERYONE, and that the product itself is not a factor - that's disingenuous at best.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsyplenk View Post
    No one on Classic gives a flying shite about MMO Champion.
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    Also if you arnt doing any endgame content, why the fuck do you need gear

  10. #110
    Agreed, I have not "outgrown WoW", because I thought that during WoD, which was the first time since 2004 I actually unsubbed from the game, I was a subscriber to World of Warcraft for 11 years, from 2004 to 2015, when i quite like less than a year into WoD. I thought to myself, I'm done with this game, must not be for me anymore.,

    Then a year goes by, Legion comes out I hear good things about it, and I thought, no, this game isn't for me anymore, but then a month later said, ok, I'll bite and buy Legion and see if i still like WoW. Well I was addicted almsot immediately to Legion, and played Legion for 2 years straight, 6 nights a week.

    So I did not outgrow WoW, I was just burned out on shitty expansion, and needed a good expansion to come along and actually be fun, which Legion was.

    Then BfA came out, it sucked, not terrible, but not great either. And then Shittylands, which might be the worst boring lame expansion ever. And now were in Draognflight, which so far seems pretty good, but let's see how it goes.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    Agreed, I have not "outgrown WoW", because I thought that during WoD, which was the first time since 2004 I actually unsubbed from the game, I was a subscriber to World of Warcraft for 11 years, from 2004 to 2015, when i quite like less than a year into WoD. I thought to myself, I'm done with this game, must not be for me anymore.,

    Then a year goes by, Legion comes out I hear good things about it, and I thought, no, this game isn't for me anymore, but then a month later said, ok, I'll bite and buy Legion and see if i still like WoW. Well I was addicted almsot immediately to Legion, and played Legion for 2 years straight, 6 nights a week.

    So I did not outgrow WoW, I was just burned out on shitty expansion, and needed a good expansion to come along and actually be fun, which Legion was.

    Then BfA came out, it sucked, not terrible, but not great either. And then Shittylands, which might be the worst boring lame expansion ever. And now were in Draognflight, which so far seems pretty good, but let's see how it goes.
    I'm pretty sure you would have hated Legion just as much if we hadn't been raiding at the time. That is the main thing that changed about your play, not the how the game is played but what you are, or are not, doing in it.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  12. #112
    The "outgrowing WoW" is not a binary thing.

    The reward mechanism in your brain habituates. You need stronger and stronger stimulation to get the same positive effect.

    At the same time, you become more aware of things in the game that you dislike, and better at spotting ahead of time things that won't work for you.

    The result of this is that the bar is constantly being raised. The game has to work better and better at pleasing you just to stay even.

    If, at the same time, the game swerves downward in quality, the two points (what you need to justify playing the game, and what the game delivers) can rapidly invert.

    Did you lose your attraction to the game, or did it get worse? The answer is probably both.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    I'm pretty sure you would have hated Legion just as much if we hadn't been raiding at the time. That is the main thing that changed about your play, not the how the game is played but what you are, or are not, doing in it.
    I did Raid in Legion yes, but not crazy [H]ardcore. Just did Normal and a bit of Heroic, and I didn't start Raiding in Legion, I started with Nightfall the second Raid release, and only did a bit of Antorus. So most of my Legion game time was Class Hall stuff, class hall mounts, Artifact weapon appearances, Mythic + dungeon runs, Mage Tower stuff, etc...

  14. #114
    Over 9000! Gimlix's Avatar
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    Haven't had this much fun in WoW since i started wow 12 years ago, DF is sure one of the better if not best expansion by far. of course first experience is always the best but DF might be the GOAT we got so far.

    Ur just burned out. Don't blame the game, blame yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shekora View Post
    Goddamn it, Gimlix, why do you keep making these threads?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam the Wiser View Post
    Goddamn it, Gimlix, why do you keep making these threads?

  15. #115
    Blizzard is absolutely neglecting the open world players in this expansion. There were some fun ideas--like feast or siege--but it's not even close to the amount of content the game needs to support that playstyle. Especially since mplus ruined dungeons for many people (from BC through MoP you could get normal raid gear or its equivalent from running heroics). Mplus definitely has its fans but not everyone is gonna like that mode.

    I don't see why it's a big deal for open-world content to allow good gearing. You can get the 2nd best gear in the game in FF14 via tomes by doing virtually anything (and there's not a huge gap between savage and tome). In Gw2, you can get the best gear from open world content as well. There needs to be more to a mmo than raiding/arena/mplus.

    Hopefully the holiday event revamp is really substantial and gives casual players a reason to play the game.

  16. #116
    I would say M+ dungeon keys getting more difficult is an issue. I have read many others saying this exact thing.

    Doing M0's is easy of course

    M5's a bit harder but still no stress

    M10's get difficult

    Anything above an M+ 10 in my opinion starts to get seriously hard and crosses the line of fun to stressful and aggravating.

    People that say and do M+ 15's easily are weirdos LOL. those are not easy runs.



    Back in like MoP days Heroic dungeons were Hard and gave Raid level gear. We should ditch M+ and go back to MoP
    Last edited by Zorachus; 2023-01-26 at 01:08 AM.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    Just wish Blizzard would finally add something to end game beyond Raid or die, or M+. Another way to upgrade your character and gear besides Mythic plus dungeons and Raid runs.
    uhm....
    storms, trials, weekly events, professions, citadel rares, the new rares that now spawn in several locations, catalyst.
    if you look at it strictly as a treadmill that starts at dinging 70 and ends at "there is literally no other source of gear upgrades" then DF has more options than any other expansion to date outside of M+ and raiding.

    of course, that defines "upgrade your character" as only "ilevel", but that's always been the case in WoW because it never had any kind of character progression system outside of that.
    of all the thing they blatantly ripped off of everquest when making wow in the first place, a post-level-cap character progression system that isn't tied to item level is the one major thing they totally missed, and it's kind of hilarious.

  18. #118
    If it wasn't for Solo queue PVP, I would have unsubbed.

    The new crafting system is horrible. If you picked wrong, you are so far behind that it will be too late when you catch up.

    Back in Vanilla, TBC, and Warth, you had a feeling of "I'm going on an adventure" and saw people doing the same thing. I kind of feel its loss.

    Are we going on an adventure? OR are we just getting a checklist done?

    Back in vanilla i felt like you were in a new world. The new EXPs you just feel like you're playing a normal video game.

    Vanilla, tBC, wrath even cata, was all exps that got people addicted as F

  19. #119
    Currently casual players who do solo and open world content hit invisible wall and stop progress. 395 ilvl is pathetic, we need solo challenges like Horrific Visions and 420+ gear.
    I thinking about unsubing because current game state is very boring and almost same like always; do raid or M+ or unsub : zero respect for casuals.
    Also when I see catalyst is like 1 pcs per week its like Blizzard spiting in face. casuals are left FAR behind and not respected AT ALL.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibiki View Post
    Currently casual players who do solo and open world content hit invisible wall and stop progress. 395 ilvl is pathetic, we need solo challenges like Horrific Visions and 420+ gear.
    I thinking about unsubing because current game state is very boring and almost same like always; do raid or M+ or unsub : zero respect for casuals.
    Also when I see catalyst is like 1 pcs per week its like Blizzard spiting in face. casuals are left FAR behind and not respected AT ALL.
    how would the game/gameplay change if you were ilevel 420 now?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Obbi87 View Post
    If it wasn't for Solo queue PVP, I would have unsubbed.

    The new crafting system is horrible. If you picked wrong, you are so far behind that it will be too late when you catch up.

    Back in Vanilla, TBC, and Warth, you had a feeling of "I'm going on an adventure" and saw people doing the same thing. I kind of feel its loss.

    Are we going on an adventure? OR are we just getting a checklist done?

    Back in vanilla i felt like you were in a new world. The new EXPs you just feel like you're playing a normal video game.

    Vanilla, tBC, wrath even cata, was all exps that got people addicted as F
    Then dont bother with crafting. I dont bother with it and im gearing up just fine. Adventure? Go out in the world then. Its quite literally just there waiting, not telling you what to do. Just do whatever. Just like in vanilla, bc & wotlk. I go out in the world and see plenty of people doing "the same thing".

    What kind of checklist? Proffs have always had a checklist. Get X mats to create Y gear. People moan about proffs being annoying, but what about in vanilla? Want to create best flasks? Literally have to form a 40 man raid to find the trainer/working table. Imagine if that was done today in retail. People would moan to no end here.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by VMSmith View Post
    The problem with this question is that the definition of "MMORPG" has been warped by WoW, itself.

    Before WoW and EQ, grouping was a niche activity in MMO's. It was supported, of course, but it wasn't the core of the game. Neither were instances. The whole point of "Massively Multiplayer" was that you were in a world populated by other real people whom you could interact with. Much of those interactions were more like real life, actually, with people playing as shopkeeps and entertainers rather than as fighters. In SWG you could play all year long and never kill a single thing yet still be the most well-known player on your server, whether because you sold the best weapons, had the greatest art collection, or were the most entertaining dancer in the cantina.

    Again, in earlier MMOs grouping was possible, but never required. And instances barely existed.

    EQ made mandatory grouping a thing. It was extremely hard to get anywhere in that game by yourself. And this appealed to a good portion of people! But it was also the only game with this paradigm so naturally, everyone who wanted forced grouping made their way to it.

    WoW, having been developed by a number of the people from EQ, followed this trend. But with vanilla, raiding was really still a niche activity that few people knew about at first because most people still hadn't played EQ.

    But, as WoW became a cultural touchstone and more people discovered raiding, it became the "hot thing" and with TBC was incorporated as the primary function of WoW ... again, because that's what the devs wanted to do. They were all EQ raiders.

    TLDR: Grouping, raiding, instanced dungeons ... none of this was really a huge thing until WoW and as time has gone by WoW has made those things the focus. But they had nothing to do with what an MMO was, until WoW made them a thing. Your perception is colored by what WoW has done to the MMO genre, as everyone tried to imitate WoW's success and nearly everyone failed because raids and instances is really not what most people want. MMOs should have remained a niche genre that appealed to people who wanted a massive world full of people, not a lobby to sit in while waiting for a raid instance.
    all the things you talk down and think less off(like grouping, raiding, dungeons) is probably what made wow so huge and popular. Probably also what still keeps this game going. Plenty of other MMOs out there do out world content & solo content better and many are much more story driven and immersive. But guess what? THey are waaaaaaaaaaay less popular and doesnt even come close to wow numbers. Even when people on this forum find wow a huge pile of shit and the sub numbers are low and the doomsayers are dancing screaming "wow is finally dead", the game still rakes plenty of subs.

    Times change. I played EQ a bit back in the day and im glad those days are long over. So are the majority of gamers.

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