Court of Stars Timewalking Disabled, Jan 27 Hotfixes, 10.0.7 Ret Paladin Design

[Geckoo]

And here i am having more fun than ever with my ret paladin and the talent system. I guess ignorance is bliss.

[Addiena]

And here i am having more fun than ever with my ret paladin and the talent system. I guess ignorance is bliss.

Not saying its a bad spec, but the tree does have so many stupid issues mostly revolving around a couple of talents that don't synergise very well and using them creates a rotation that while powerful is just ass to play and doesn't flow. Means you'll spend time waiting to use an ability simply because its CD is out of sync with the other abilities you are using, execution is bad for this and consecration is a pain as well for single target.

Its also the slowest moving class in the game which for a melee spec is fucking horrible.

[Gloriandus]

A few guesses:

- baking in the Divine Steed conduit as a talent node
- bringing back Long Arm of the Law for PvE
- Removing Holy Avenger, Justicar's Vengeance
- improved synergy with Exorcism

Main improvement will probably be a rework of auras to give Ret more group utility

Main "but...why?" will probably be going heavy on Execution Sentence a la Consecration; they're not going to let the 1-min stuff go

[The Flavour Cat]

No one likes being stuck in Court.

An easy way to leave the instance is to just tell the Nightborne you're prejudiced against all races.

[GUZ]

I just did cos yesterday and I forgot how horrible it is. Please just leave it out for good and remove it from m+ its way too long and boring.

[Loveliest]

I just did cos yesterday and I forgot how horrible it is. Please just leave it out for good and remove it from m+ its way too long and boring.

It's my fave instance and not too long tbh. You did it on what difficulty, to get a feel of what you call too long when we have 40mins instances...

[Subrias]

This is the first time I see Blizzard actually admitting that they dropped the ball with a spec design. The usual PR reply is that either they don't see any problems (and then fix the...unseen problems) or just asking what exactly is the problem (despite being a whole forum page of complaints and descriptions of the problem).

And yet... survival is still melee. Lol...

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It's my fave instance and not too long tbh. You did it on what difficulty, to get a feel of what you call too long when we have 40mins instances...

Cos in m+ is too random. I have thought so since legion. It's the only dungeon where stacking professions AND bringing a paladin with truth guard makes the dungeon a dumb amount faster. Don't have an alchemist? First boss takes longer. The demons who make the mini bosses come out spawn at random locations. The people to talk to for clues spawn at random locations. The profession bonuses that spawn are also random. I'm sorry, but a timed dungeon should not have randomness like that.

[ExtremelyCrusty]

Buff Fury Warriors

[Jorel88]

"Stacking modifiers" As a 2h frost dk I can barely relate.
I only have to get: Rune Mastery proc for 6% strength
6th stack of bonegrinder for 20% frost damage
fallen crusader proc for 15% strength
5 stacks of razorice for 15% more frost damage
3 stacks of unleashed frenzy for 6% strength
5 stacks of frostwyrms aid for 40% mastery
use pillar of frost for 25% strength
(get a trinket procc or use trinket for 1k strength or something)
and the worst of them all, get a killing machine proc so my obliterate does frost damage and has 100% crit chance

It only makes a difference of 12k dmg obliterate without anything and 200k dmg with everything.

But sure, ret has definitely too many modifiers.
Really hoping they are redesigning more and more classes in the near furture.

Though I agree, rets been around longer than dk and has dealt with this longer than dk so wait your turn

[Terahertz]

"Stacking modifiers" As a 2h frost dk I can barely relate.
I only have to get: Rune Mastery proc for 6% strength
6th stack of bonegrinder for 20% frost damage
fallen crusader proc for 15% strength
5 stacks of razorice for 15% more frost damage
3 stacks of unleashed frenzy for 6% strength
5 stacks of frostwyrms aid for 40% mastery
use pillar of frost for 25% strength
(get a trinket procc or use trinket for 1k strength or something)
and the worst of them all, get a killing machine proc so my obliterate does frost damage and has 100% crit chance

It only makes a difference of 12k dmg obliterate without anything and 200k dmg with everything.

But sure, ret has definitely too many modifiers.
Really hoping they are redesigning more and more classes in the near furture.

Yeah, that part is a bit off considering the amount of specs that are currently designed around stacking a metric ton of multipliers, Arcane mage included. Granted I haven't played DK so I can't compare to it at all, I do think Ret paladin has issues with their stacking multipliers flat out not feeling very fun or interesting. Mainly because they're ALL on the GCD and some of them have relatively short duration, which is jarring and annoying.

Tbh it's also dependant on the designer. Afaik each class has their own dev designing it so one dev might see stacking multipliers as a problem while others don't.

[Mjollnir0]

I've been playing Ret as a main since Mists and a change could be fun. It does feel a bit "old" compared to many other classes and specs.

But are Ret paladins actually dying so much? I'm having a hard time thinking about any other spec with as many survivability CDs and healing as Ret paladins... That's weird.

[Clozer]

Ret has WAY too many buttons. Like 6 basic rotational buttons as baseline and then they add another 6 short CDs button on top of that via talents. They could literally half them and it would still have nearly most rotational buttons. This also causes 90% of those buttons to feel impactless. Hopefully, the rework will fix the massive button bloat.

[loras]

Wooo was not expecting them to say outright that Ret survivability fucking sucks, for a plate class it dies quicker than a mage at a warrior convention. Glad to see they have taken note and are going to fix it along with the other issues !

That gave me a giggle.
Just the other day i met a frost mage in shuffle, it was all fun and games untilhe fucked up his kiting just once.

Like a kitten in a meatgrinder.

[Zodiark]

Wooo was not expecting them to say outright that Ret survivability fucking sucks, for a plate class it dies quicker than a mage at a warrior convention. Glad to see they have taken note and are going to fix it along with the other issues !

Yeah Mages especially frost have one of the highest survivability rates in the game. Between Ice block, blink, frost nova, frost shield and all the slows, not to mention the other little tricks they have to sheep, freeze trap, etc, they feel SIGNIFIGANTLY tougher than a plate wearing class with heals and invulnerability shields.

[Addiena]

Yeah Mages especially frost have one of the highest survivability rates in the game. Between Ice block, blink, frost nova, frost shield and all the slows, not to mention the other little tricks they have to sheep, freeze trap, etc, they feel SIGNIFIGANTLY tougher than a plate wearing class with heals and invulnerability shields.

Well I said Warrior because they are the likely the best hard counter for the mage, got the best tool kit for just nailing that one annoying frost mage to the wall, pretty sure a frost mage could handle one warrior but a convention ... nope one exceptionally dead mage. (Throw some rogues in there and that mage may as well go dig their own grave)

[Laqweeta]

Thank god!!!

I LOVE Ret, but it's just disgusting in the current state.

Whatever they do, bring back Pursuit of Justice (15% movement speed at all times).

[Capultro]

The paladin needs a complete rework, it doesn't feel special anymore, except for the sentence, the new animation is excellent.

[bloodmoth13]

Erm.... Remove blades of justice (physical dmg) and keep Exorcism only (holy dmg). But make Exorcism CD same as BOJ. And make it refresh CD on proc + guarantee crit (that spreads dot to nearby enemies without consecration as condition)

Make us CHOOSE between retarded horse OR long arm of the law (mini-sprint on Judgement cast).

Make Consecration award 1 holy power (that way noone will complain for having it in rotation, even on ST)

Give us BFA ret aura (wings upon ally death) + 3% buff (haste/stat/attack power/whatever....)


As of defensives- make divine protection baseline.
Make BOP baseline (lower CD / spell dmg protection if talented)

Remove Execution sentence, or just rework it as it used to be back in MOP- flat ST dot dmg.


Thats just from "tip of my mind" that I could think of. Probably there are couple more extras that could be tweaked/buffed/removed/reworked too.

These are some of the dumbest suggestions I have heard.
'replace our coolest looking ability for dumbest looking ability'
No
'Remove awesomehorse'
No
'force concecration even more into the rotation than it already is and punish us for not casting on cd'
He'll fucking no
'give us BFA wings on ally death'
No, I don't want to be balanced on ally incompetence, it's a pretty crappy mechanic in general if rather not see any more power put into something I actively want to avoid

Are you actively trying to make bad changes?

[Palapop]

These are some of the dumbest suggestions I have heard.
'replace our coolest looking ability for dumbest looking ability'
No
'Remove awesomehorse'
No
'force concecration even more into the rotation than it already is and punish us for not casting on cd'
He'll fucking no
'give us BFA wings on ally death'
No, I don't want to be balanced on ally incompetence, it's a pretty crappy mechanic in general if rather not see any more power put into something I actively want to avoid

Are you actively trying to make bad changes?

This is the dumbest statement I've heard.

I dont care what looks "cool". Steed that pops out of nowhere def doesn't look cool. Nor do I care about spell animation.

"Forced consecration even more". Can you force something a little or too much? It's not forced. It's rewarded. And it's 1 of core paladin abilities from day 1. I'm glad its back. It just has to be rewarding.

Read again what I said about ret aura.

I'm trying to make changes which would make ret fun to play again. And not to have 1 strict way of gameplay where you have to press 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 buttons and then you do "some dmg".


Quality > quantity/looks.

[Civciv]

"Engineering
The Magazine of Healing Darts embellishment will now only fire towards and be consumed by other players." but why??