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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Biglog View Post
    It's more extreme religious ethno-conservatism than Nazism, but those aren't far off from each other.
    Honestly, having taken great pains to stress the differentiation between bog-standard American far-right populism, typical fascism, and National Socialism to the local direction-brains in the past, I would say actively praising Adolf Hitler does suggest this particular group probably falls well within the purview of outright Nazism or adjacent ideologies.

  2. #22
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    The professional in me wants to say "I mean, home schoolers can learn however they want, good luck getting into college with that on your application".

    But I think we all know, people who grow up thinking Nazis had the reicht idea don't go to college. They go to militia camps.

    So instead, I'll say "If your school is afraid to make public who the teachers and students are, it's not a school. It's a cult."
    Or you know, those couple of far right "universities". Prager U and Liberty U, as well as some smaller ones.
    “Terrible things are happening outside. Poor helpless people are being dragged out of their homes. Families are torn apart. Men, women, and children are separated. Children come home from school to find that their parents have disappeared.”
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  3. #23
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    Liberty U
    Even Liberty U hasn't gone as far as to say "Hitler was right". Again, I don't think anyone with open teacher/student logs would do that.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Elder Millennial View Post
    The sooner our society understands that schooling is not about the rights or preferences of the parents but about the well-being of children the better.
    The children are their property and they won't let no gub'mint force them to go through an education process that's designed to prepare them for society (even if it's flawed, inadequate, outdated, and grossly unequal in terms of the quality) so they can lead successful, productive lives with some basic skills and knowledge.

    Way too many parents selfishly would rather have their children turn out into the ignorant, hateful failures they are.

    I know, because some semi-distant cousin's kids were all homeschooled by his now ex-wife. The one that's now over 18 is slowly realizing how deeply her mother fucked up her world view and knowledge, the others are all fucked as well and will hopefully figure that out when they're old enough and get out in the world. I just hope they get caught up on vaccines, because my cousin and his ex-wife also refused to vaccinate their kids or take them in for regular checkups with pediatricians.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    Or you know, those couple of far right "universities". Prager U and Liberty U, as well as some smaller ones.
    Those are extremely different ideological realms. I wouldn't compare the fairly bog-standard arch-conservative PragerU to an outright Neo-Nazi indoctrination movement. They're definitely pretty far in there insofar as conservatism goes – National Conservatives, I'd label them as – as well as plain stupid, but they're definitely not Nazis.
    Last edited by AOL Instant Messenger; 2023-01-30 at 04:59 PM.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Even Liberty U hasn't gone as far as to say "Hitler was right".
    No, but they don't fall very short of that mark.
    On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.

    - H. L. Mencken

  7. #27
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Even Liberty U hasn't gone as far as to say "Hitler was right". Again, I don't think anyone with open teacher/student logs would do that.
    Frankly, not coming right out and saying "Hitler was right" but extensively talking about how each and every ideological principle behind Hitler's National "Socialism" was "right" is just saying Hitler was right, but being too chickenshit to blow your cover and be honest about it.


  8. #28
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Frankly, not coming right out and saying "Hitler was right" but extensively talking about how each and every ideological principle behind Hitler's National "Socialism" was "right" is just saying Hitler was right, but being too chickenshit to blow your cover and be honest about it.
    Valid. Liberty University isn't in a great place to talk about racism, given (a) recent events that got them national attention and/or sued and (b) they're literally in Lynchburg.

  9. #29
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Something I alluded to in my OP, that even though this one Nazi homeschooling ring has only 2,500 members, there is an absolute epidemic of other alt right and far right home schooling rings and just basically independent parents who are indoctrinating their children into far right ideology.

    Seems conservatives got worried that the younger generations were rejecting Republican/conservative ideology, largely because their economic model is untenable in the long run, and made this about the culture war.

    https://washingtonpress.com/2023/01/...medium=twitter

    I guess if you can't convince people your economics are good, just convince them to be nazis from age 3.
    “Terrible things are happening outside. Poor helpless people are being dragged out of their homes. Families are torn apart. Men, women, and children are separated. Children come home from school to find that their parents have disappeared.”
    Diary of Anne Frank
    January 13, 1943

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    Seems conservatives got worried that the younger generations were rejecting Republican/conservative ideology, largely because their economic model is untenable in the long run, and made this about the culture war.
    Conservatives still largely seem to have no idea why younger folks have zero interest in the Republican party or conservative movement, and keep blaming it on literally everything and everyone except their own unappealing, dumbass ideology for losers.

    Hence why they started talking about raising the voting age to 25-26 or whatever after they realized that zoomers fucking hate the Republican party.

  11. #31
    The Unstoppable Force Kathandira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    Something I alluded to in my OP, that even though this one Nazi homeschooling ring has only 2,500 members, there is an absolute epidemic of other alt right and far right home schooling rings and just basically independent parents who are indoctrinating their children into far right ideology.

    Seems conservatives got worried that the younger generations were rejecting Republican/conservative ideology, largely because their economic model is untenable in the long run, and made this about the culture war.

    https://washingtonpress.com/2023/01/...medium=twitter

    I guess if you can't convince people your economics are good, just convince them to be nazis from age 3.
    Ya know...there is a light in the dark here.

    Please, home school the conservative kids. But don't complain when all the CEOs and such are all liberals who graduated highschool and university.
    RIP Genn Greymane, Permabanned on 8.22.18

    Your name will carry on through generations, and will never be forgotten.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    Ya know...there is a light in the dark here.

    Please, home school the conservative kids. But don't complain when all the CEOs and such are all liberals who graduated highschool and university.
    You and I both know you don't have to be smart or have credentials to be a CEO. Just fire employees, bust unions, lower wages, take away worker compensation, and you'll be the best paid CEO.
    “Terrible things are happening outside. Poor helpless people are being dragged out of their homes. Families are torn apart. Men, women, and children are separated. Children come home from school to find that their parents have disappeared.”
    Diary of Anne Frank
    January 13, 1943

  13. #33
    The Unstoppable Force Kathandira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    You and I both know you don't have to be smart or have credentials to be a CEO. Just fire employees, bust unions, lower wages, take away worker compensation, and you'll be the best paid CEO.
    I get jaded working where I work. Where we only hire talent, not people who networked/paid their way to the top lol.
    RIP Genn Greymane, Permabanned on 8.22.18

    Your name will carry on through generations, and will never be forgotten.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Conservatives still largely seem to have no idea why younger folks have zero interest in the Republican party or conservative movement, and keep blaming it on literally everything and everyone except their own unappealing, dumbass ideology for losers.

    Hence why they started talking about raising the voting age to 25-26 or whatever after they realized that zoomers fucking hate the Republican party.
    That is highly disingenuous—from my own observation, they're not exactly only becoming more liberal. Instead, most of my generation are generally extreme going either direction, and many practice idiosyncratic or more uncommon ideologies. The latter part is generally a good thing, I think. It's far more common to see people among my generation than any other living generation that would know names like Edward Bellamy or Hilaire Belloc by heart. I would say that many of them are disillusioned enough to be frustrated with political polarity than any other, which indicates good critical thinking and I think is a good sign for the future. Where this faction addresses political parties, it generally tends to be more cynical about the duopoly in general.

    Unfortunately, many of them are still partisans, and those who are tend to be surface-level direction-brains – which is unfortunate, because many of them are actually still quite intelligent, just unwilling to deviate from the beliefs they were raised with, or sometimes the opposite thereof – incapable of thinking outside of the narrow viewpoint of "my color good, your color bad". It's ludicrously naive to think they'll stick to defiling one party instead of both, because this sad side of my generation cares nothing for anything other than their own political gratification. I definitely believe that my generation is turning out well, but the partisans of my generation are some of the most perturbing in history. I don't care which party they're from (though the Republicans of my generation are often iffier than the Democrats)—I just hope none of them ruin the more idiosyncratic faction of my generation's opportunity to use their otherwise-astounding tendency towards political novelty to make a change for the better.
    Last edited by AOL Instant Messenger; 2023-01-30 at 08:38 PM.

  15. #35
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    Unfortunately, many of them are still partisans, and those who are tend to be surface-level direction-brains – which is unfortunate, because many of them are actually still quite intelligent, just unwilling to deviate from the beliefs they were raised with, or sometimes the opposite thereof – incapable of thinking outside of the narrow viewpoint of "my color good, your color bad".
    Mazlowe's Hierarchy of Needs applies to political partisanship as much as it applies to anything else.

    In a setting where the Republicans are challenging the capacity for broad swathes of people to legitimately exist in American society at all, with deeper rhetoric stating those positions are merely first steps towards broader attacks and restrictions, you don't get to deal with the fancier levels of the Hierarchy. I'm not American, but take myself as an example. I'm outspokenly a market socialist, ideologically; if I wanted to achieve my "political actualization", I'd definitely not be supporting the Democrats. But I can't worry about that level, because the Republicans are directly attacking all other levels. I can't rely on individual esteem and respect being recognized, let alone basic senses of belonging to a society that, led by Republicans, would be actively hostile, nor safety needs as their rhetoric fosters violence against myself and myriad others, not even physiological needs for those in poverty (not me, at this point, but at the political level we're talking societal scales rather than individual).

    As with the psychological approach Mazlowe originally envisioned, you can't worry about actualizing your ideal political framework when you're still challenged to maintain all those more-basic needs, actively, by directly opposing Republicans. Literally, until Republicans are politically irrelevant or become reasonable and progressive (the former being more likely, IMO), people cannot risk voting for a third party. They have to stick with the Democrats because they can't take the risks of Republican victory, because any such is going to involve monstrous leaps backwards. The other way to break that cycle, of course, is for the Democrats to become "just as bad", but that's not where we're at either.

    It's not really "partisanship", when you have to vote for the only party that currently has A> a chance at actually winning, and B> is the only such party that respects your basic right to exist as a person. Any other choice is a form of suicide. And I don't mean that as hyperbole; for many, it's literally going to mean they die.


  16. #36
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Mazlowe's Hierarchy of Needs applies to political partisanship as much as it applies to anything else.

    In a setting where the Republicans are challenging the capacity for broad swathes of people to legitimately exist in American society at all, with deeper rhetoric stating those positions are merely first steps towards broader attacks and restrictions, you don't get to deal with the fancier levels of the Hierarchy. I'm not American, but take myself as an example. I'm outspokenly a market socialist, ideologically; if I wanted to achieve my "political actualization", I'd definitely not be supporting the Democrats. But I can't worry about that level, because the Republicans are directly attacking all other levels. I can't rely on individual esteem and respect being recognized, let alone basic senses of belonging to a society that, led by Republicans, would be actively hostile, nor safety needs as their rhetoric fosters violence against myself and myriad others, not even physiological needs for those in poverty (not me, at this point, but at the political level we're talking societal scales rather than individual).

    As with the psychological approach Mazlowe originally envisioned, you can't worry about actualizing your ideal political framework when you're still challenged to maintain all those more-basic needs, actively, by directly opposing Republicans. Literally, until Republicans are politically irrelevant or become reasonable and progressive (the former being more likely, IMO), people cannot risk voting for a third party. They have to stick with the Democrats because they can't take the risks of Republican victory, because any such is going to involve monstrous leaps backwards. The other way to break that cycle, of course, is for the Democrats to become "just as bad", but that's not where we're at either.

    It's not really "partisanship", when you have to vote for the only party that currently has A> a chance at actually winning, and B> is the only such party that respects your basic right to exist as a person. Any other choice is a form of suicide. And I don't mean that as hyperbole; for many, it's literally going to mean they die.
    This is more articulate than anything I could come up with to be sure. It's an indictment of all the Bernie Bros who whined that they were voting for Trump because they didn't like Hillary. That they were trend hoppers, not people with actual genuine political interests. Nobody who exists within the LGBTQ community should ever vote for Republicans, unless they're masochists that relish in having their basic human rights taken away.
    “Terrible things are happening outside. Poor helpless people are being dragged out of their homes. Families are torn apart. Men, women, and children are separated. Children come home from school to find that their parents have disappeared.”
    Diary of Anne Frank
    January 13, 1943

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    In a setting where the Republicans are challenging the capacity for broad swathes of people to legitimately exist in American society at all, with deeper rhetoric stating those positions are merely first steps towards broader attacks and restrictions, you don't get to deal with the fancier levels of the Hierarchy. I'm not American, but take myself as an example. I'm outspokenly a market socialist, ideologically; if I wanted to achieve my "political actualization", I'd definitely not be supporting the Democrats. But I can't worry about that level, because the Republicans are directly attacking all other levels. I can't rely on individual esteem and respect being recognized, let alone basic senses of belonging to a society that, led by Republicans, would be actively hostile, nor safety needs as their rhetoric fosters violence against myself and myriad others, not even physiological needs for those in poverty (not me, at this point, but at the political level we're talking societal scales rather than individual).
    Have you not bothered to think about why people are being forced into making this decision in the first place? The Republicans aren't manifesting some kind of evil vanguard of all incarnations of inequality and bigotry in the United States—their increasing radicalization is a product of party polarization. As the Democrats continue to respond by only exacerbating their differences and willfully embracing everything the Republicans reject, and vice-versa, the United States will continue to remain in this position of polarization. The reason why so many Democrats are so inclined to detest the Republican Party so viscerally is because they are specifically structured to stand against everything they support—and, in spite of what some may believe, this does not mean that they're the forces of all evil opposing a force of absolute good. If you've been radicalized and willfully abandoned your capacity for critical thought, like so many other partisans have, then it becomes impossible to perceive the flaws in your own coalition and acknowledge the virtues of the other, thereby creating the illusion that there really is some epic clash of good and evil occurring in which you are behooved to choose the lesser of two evils.

    Party polarization is a feedback loop by its very nature—as one party embraces more extreme positions, the other will also do so in response. The "culture war" is especially bad for this—frequently, what will happen is that one party will feature a fringe practicing a certain position, and as a result the other party will begin to panic about it. Rather than take an easy win and an opportunity to paint their opponents as crazed conspiracy theorists, the other party will instead mobilize so vehemently that they eventually begin sincerely promulgating the policy that was previously not especially strong, or taking it to its logical extreme rather than maintain its previous state as a happy moderate policy.

    This is the sort of game where the only way to win is not to play—and, admittedly, it is difficult to do. I was myself a fairly one-dimensional Democratic partisan for a time whose beliefs didn't vary exceptionally from any other Democrat, save for that I was significantly more willing to be open-minded and apply critical thinking to my own beliefs. Over time, as one grows and begins to learn more about political science and the nature of parties, they are naturally inclined to come to understand how silly it is to immerse themselves in these conflicts which are often absurd by their very nature. There are a few good ways to cheat at the game, though they are admittedly sometimes difficult to do—voting for a third party is the most common one. It feels like you're throwing your vote away, and your party will never actually win an election, but what will happen is that you will become a statistic for the other parties to look at and ponder over, and if there's enough of you, they'll start to want to adopt elements of your chosen party's platform into their own to attract voters over from that smaller party, especially in swing states where elections can legitimately be impacted, if slightly, by third parties. If you're a tad more realistic or set on seeing immediate outcomes, another thing you can do is look for rogue elements within your own party – or, if you're a risk-taker, the other party, such as supporting Republican Bill Weld as a Democrat – to support whose policy does not fit well into the cookie-cutter of party polarization. A reshuffle of the party coalitions or the introduction of the risk of a larger third party stealing votes away is a very quick way to defeat polarization, because both parties will likely scramble to try to address the new opportunity in different ways that may be difficult to wrench into a state of polarization—this is admittedly unwieldy, because it is also likely that some third parties' platform would simply be absorbed into the coalition if they're too single-minded and don't directly contradict the preexisting state of polarization. It would have to be something with policies present in both parties, such as the Libertarians or American Solidarity Party, because a significant number of votes being taken by those could coerce the parties into compromising their position on one issue to appeal to voters for a prominent third party who agree with them on another, and breaking the state of perfect polarization.

    The most important thing, however, is to be critical of yourself and the beliefs you hold—being a party drone is nothing more than a means by which you demean yourself and your capacity for independent thought. Similarly, you must also understand the details – if not the virtues – of the other coalition's policies if you want to be a productive citizen in a democratic society. If you want to see a reality in which change isn't just a distant dream, you have to be proactive. Otherwise, you end up in a state of political stasis like the one we're in now, in which two nonsensical and self-contradictory patchworks of ideologies vie for power with one another with little room for deviation and, more importantly, improvement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    As with the psychological approach Mazlowe originally envisioned, you can't worry about actualizing your ideal political framework when you're still challenged to maintain all those more-basic needs, actively, by directly opposing Republicans. Literally, until Republicans are politically irrelevant or become reasonable and progressive (the former being more likely, IMO), people cannot risk voting for a third party. They have to stick with the Democrats because they can't take the risks of Republican victory, because any such is going to involve monstrous leaps backwards. The other way to break that cycle, of course, is for the Democrats to become "just as bad", but that's not where we're at either.
    It feels nice to envision a world where the baddies you don't like are gone or suddenly agree with you in almost every respect, but that's not going to happen. It's definitely not likely in any reality that the Republicans will become totally politically-irrelevant—if you want that to happen and for your party to have exclusive control, you're simply fueling the polarization that ensures that neither party will ever fall. I do see the desire to see one party replaced with a new, emergent party as what happened with the Whigs being supplanted with the Republican Party, but wanting that along the lines of just "getting rid of the baddies" without also hoping for a major political reshuffle altogether is only a naive indulgence of polarized partisan politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    It's not really "partisanship", when you have to vote for the only party that currently has A> a chance at actually winning, and B> is the only such party that respects your basic right to exist as a person. Any other choice is a form of suicide. And I don't mean that as hyperbole; for many, it's literally going to mean they die.
    I see what you mean, but that risk will also only get worse insofar as political polarization is fed. This is a feedback loop you have to make an effort to break out of to see any change for the better on any level.

  18. #38
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    As the Democrats continue to respond by only exacerbating their differences and willfully embracing everything the Republicans reject, and vice-versa, the United States will continue to remain in this position of polarization.
    Yes, because supporting basic human rights for marginalized people is very hated by Republicans.

    The reason why so many Democrats are so inclined to detest the Republican Party so viscerally is because they are specifically structured to stand against everything they support—and, in spite of what some may believe, this does not mean that they're the forces of all evil opposing a force of absolute good.
    In case you haven't been paying attention for the last 50 years, Republican policy is reactionary. Meaning it does not stand for anything. It simply reacts to Democratic stances.

    Global climate change? Republicans: Nah bro, we're gonna make that political then blame you for making it political.
    Pro-choice? Republicans: OML BABY MORDER
    Women's rights to be independent? Republicans: Embrace Andrew Tate
    Basic human rights for LGBTQ? Republicans: HOW DARE YOU GROOM OUR CHILDREN

    Every single Republican stance has always been reactionary. People merely making ethical decisions simply enrages them, and that is all it is. I realize many of the "woke" "centrists" like to believe they're viewing politics from some kind of external lens, but the Republican stances always come AFTER the Democrat ones.

    The entire conservative playbook is to fire up the base for some kind of new crusade against "wokeness". Did you see how triggered Cucker Carlson got over some candies supporting pronouns? It's candy. For as much as they whine about how triggered liberals get, their outrage machine works overtime all day every day to get the base crying about something new.

    Is it really any surprise that some of the least educated of our country are taking to homeschooling their kids.

    If your perspective in all of this is to claim that it's Democrats constantly attacking conservative values to get them riled up... well I dunno what to tell you other than reevaluate your perspective and how you see things. Everyone on both sides has motivation to lie to you, so disseminating the truth from fiction can be hard. I will question every source I get, and will often check things out with my own eyes if I can access pictures or video or something. But there is one thing I am certain of: Democrats take a stance and Republicans move to oppose it. That's not "attacking" conservative stances unless you see the status quo as desirable. And the status quo is often very not desirable for many who lack basic human rights, or who are marginalized in society.

    It feels nice to envision a world where the baddies you don't like are gone or suddenly agree with you in almost every respect, but that's not going to happen. It's definitely not likely in any reality that the Republicans will become totally politically-irrelevant—if you want that to happen and for your party to have exclusive control, you're simply fueling the polarization that ensures that neither party will ever fall. I do see the desire to see one party replaced with a new, emergent party as what happened with the Whigs being supplanted with the Republican Party, but wanting that along the lines of just "getting rid of the baddies" without also hoping for a major political reshuffle altogether is only a naive indulgence of polarized partisan politics.
    This is very much text that's basically looking down your nose at someone who views reprehensible positions as reprehensible. If you look at Republicans saluting nazis and praising hitler as "Oh, they're just people with different viewpoints, how DARE you view them as evil!" I'm just gonna laugh at you because... yes! Nazis are in fact evil! If you want to exterminate entire races because of nazi values, you are evil. I didn't even think someone who's not entirely indoctrinated by Republican values could ever not see it this way, but here we are.
    “Terrible things are happening outside. Poor helpless people are being dragged out of their homes. Families are torn apart. Men, women, and children are separated. Children come home from school to find that their parents have disappeared.”
    Diary of Anne Frank
    January 13, 1943

  19. #39
    Banned Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
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    Not too surprised, I can see Texas and Florida doing things like this more and more, the dream of an ethnos state has been a dream of almost every racial supremacist I know of.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    This should be considered child abuse and worrisome enough that parents can lose their guardianship over it.
    its funny that out of one side of their mouths, some people on this forum continue to mock me when i post articles that warn of civil war in the US, while on the other hand people post articles like this and warn this could lead to "violent action" and indulge in a fantasy nightmare of a nazi ethnostate rising out of texas and florida.

    talk about cognitive dissonance.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    The professional in me wants to say "I mean, home schoolers can learn however they want, good luck getting into college with that on your application".
    hell, in current day, an increasing number of people view college as a scam. College enrollment is dropping.

    Also, the Amish thrive without a college degree and getting home-schooled. You'd require a very fascist state to tell the Amish to stop being successful and force them into public schools.

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