Dragons related to elves?

[Mace]

My theory that also explains why they mostly take elven forms.

Here goes, Dragons come from elementals, and I am suspecting, so do trolls, perhaps even the same branch, but, it was Elves that were titan ordered trolls [Well of Eternity/Elune etc], and so there is a connection or they identify most with each other. ELves are seriously into dragons too.

[escalprillo]

Everything in this game is related to elves.. I personally am tired of elves.
Love the game, but would prefer if new races from now on were not elves.
I believe blizzard let pass a good opportunity to mix the factions a bit more by allowing dracthyr to choose whatever race they wanted as their visage form.

[Raisei]

My theory that also explains why they mostly take elven forms.

Here goes, Dragons come from elementals, and I am suspecting, so do trolls, perhaps even the same branch, but, it was Elves that were titan ordered trolls [Well of Eternity/Elune etc], and so there is a connection or they identify most with each other. ELves are seriously into dragons too.

At least for now we have no hint that the first mortal race (trolls) has a connection to the elements. They naturally emerged through the Well of Eternity which is connected to the Arcane domain, being the liquid blood of Azeroth herself.
All elf races developed from there. First the Night Elves, then the High Elves and Nightborne, then Blood and Void Elves.

Dragons chose the visage that fit best with the races they wanted to contact (Don't ask me why most of them could be High Elves long before that race existed though). But a very old Dragon like Senegos for example has a Troll visage, likely because they were still predominantly ruling Azeroth when he decided on it. Not that he is older then Alex and the rest but... ugh... this is very confusing.

In the most simple manner... Alex and the rest transform into elves because elves are visually pleasing creatures, the High Elves may very well be the most beautiful race on Azeroth by very simplified standards and ommiting personal taste, so a dragon that wants to look good in both visage and dragon form is more likely to pick that form.

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Everything in this game is related to elves.. I personally am tired of elves.

Not yet. Once I can play a San'layn blood mage, we are good.

Love the game, but would prefer if new races from now on were not elves.
I believe blizzard let pass a good opportunity to mix the factions a bit more by allowing dracthyr to choose whatever race they wanted as their visage form.

Agreed and pretty sure that will be happening.

[Varodoc]

Of course. The Dragons evolved from Proto-Dragons after the Titans blessed them and reshaped them.

Meanwhile, The Elves evolved from the Trolls after the Titan Blood blessed them and reshaped them.

Proto-Dragons = Trolls = Primitive species

Dragons = Elves = Evolved species

And in both cases, the catalyst of the evolution process is Titan energy.

There is definitely a connection between Elves and Dragons, which is why many dragons, including several aspects (Alexstrasza, Ysera, Nozdormu, Malygos), assumed the form of elves; the Dracthyr also assume the form of elves.

Also, Dragons and Elves have been enemies in the past (think of Highborne vs. Blue Dragonflight in Northrend), but also close allies. Think of the Green Dragons and the Kaldorei, or how the Aspects blessed Nordrassil and Teldrassil.

Lastly, it seems that Elves tend to be more resistant to the whispers of the Void than Dragons; as the Void elves, such as Alleria Windrunner, resisted the whispers of the Void and kept their sanity, while the vast majority of the Black Dragons succumbed to insanity; and those who didn't (Wrathion, Sabellian, Ebyssian) had to be cleansed of the Void taint in the first place.

So, while the Elves (Void elves) can coexist with the Void taint inside their body without losing their sanity, Dragons tend to be very susceptible to the corruption, and either succumb to it, or have to be cleansed of it.

Thus, Elves might be EVEN MORE EVOLVED species than Dragons.

[Aucald]

I think most dragons chose their Visages more along aesthetic or philosophical lines, not really down to any kind of direct relationship between the elves and dragons, so to speak. I think most dragons chose elven Visages because the elves traditionally evince the qualities that dragons also resonate with - innate magical ability, intelligence, and generalized capability. It probably also helps that they're viewed as preternaturally beautiful and/or handsome, which makes them an easy choice. I kind of think of the elven Visage as sort of the default stemming from the heyday of the dragons before the War of the Ancients, when the ancient Kaldorei empire ruled Azeroth. Of course, other Visages exist and are sometimes chosen, depending on the individual in question and their circumstances. Senegos, for example, likely existed long before the elves arose and so has a troll's Visage, and given his extreme age and likely being set in his ways, has kept that Visage for his long life. Black dragons seem to prefer human Visages, which kind of speaks to their philosophy as a chaotic and disruptive force, which is a riff that the humans in general kind of share in terms of their societies. Other exceptions and interesting choices abound, and some dragons like Korialstrasz make use of multiple Visages (the half-elf Visage of Krasus and the human Visage of Borel).

[Mace]

At least for now we have no hint that the first mortal race (trolls) has a connection to the elements. They naturally emerged through the Well of Eternity which is connected to the Arcane domain, being the liquid blood of Azeroth herself.
All elf races developed from there. First the Night Elves, then the High Elves and Nightborne, then Blood and Void Elves.

Do we still know anything about the trolls? Have they been specifically mentioned as coming out from the well like a lot of others.. including the wild gods? They're still a mystery. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a connection with the elements though.

But high elves actually didn't become that way from the well, they were "cut off" from it, and devolved.

and nightborne over =juiced on artifact altered mana pool in Suramar palace that mutates them, just like the void mutates the blood elves studying them. neither night elven alteration is induced by the Well of Eternity though as far as I recall.

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I think most dragons chose their Visages more along aesthetic or philosophical lines, not really down to any kind of direct relationship between the elves and dragons, so to speak. I think most dragons chose elven Visages because the elves traditionally evince the qualities that dragons also resonate with - innate magical ability, intelligence, and generalized capability. It probably also helps that they're viewed as preternaturally beautiful and/or handsome, which makes them an easy choice. I kind of think of the elven Visage as sort of the default stemming from the heyday of the dragons before the War of the Ancients, when the ancient Kaldorei empire ruled Azeroth. Of course, other Visages exist and are sometimes chosen, depending on the individual in question and their circumstances. Senegos, for example, likely existed long before the elves arose and so has a troll's Visage, and given his extreme age and likely being set in his ways, has kept that Visage for his long life. Black dragons seem to prefer human Visages, which kind of speaks to their philosophy as a chaotic and disruptive force, which is a riff that the humans in general kind of share in terms of their societies. Other exceptions and interesting choices abound, and some dragons like Korialstrasz make use of multiple Visages (the half-elf Visage of Krasus and the human Visage of Borel).

ALso are in mind that "human"visage coudl be interpreted as vrykul or titan based semblance.

I found it interesting that Senegos would choose a troll, but I don't think it was due to being around longer than the elves, I think Senegos would originally have had a night elven visage form, remember the Blue Dragons studied with the Kaldorei in the Nar'thalas academy, such was the prestige of the world's most famous magical academy at the time and the most advanced ever.

However note how disgusted he is at the kaldorei when dealing with Withered nightfallen. With scorn at the hubris of Azshara and her highborne and the elven people in general, i think he changes his visage form during the Legion era of the pre-sundering times, as kinda FU to the elves., you're not better you're worse. It would drive home further if it was rooted in a personal experience. Perhaps he was close to some Highborne who became arrogant over time or ma

But his daughter Stellagosa does resuem an elven visage.

[Aucald]

ALso are in mind that "human"visage coudl be interpreted as vrykul or titan based semblance.

That's possible, although I don't think the Black Dragonflight would really be super-interested in honoring their Titanic roots given Deathwing's view on the Titans' "gift" to him actually being a burden and a curse.

I found it interesting that Senegos would choose a troll, but I don't think it was due to being around longer than the elves, I think Senegos would originally have had a night elven visage form, remember the Blue Dragons studied with the Kaldorei in the Nar'thalas academy, such was the prestige of the world's most famous magical academy at the time and the most advanced ever.

However note how disgusted he is at the kaldorei when dealing with Withered nightfallen. With scorn at the hubris of Azshara and her highborne and the elven people in general, i think he changes his visage form during the Legion era of the pre-sundering times, as kinda FU to the elves., you're not better you're worse. It would drive home further if it was rooted in a personal experience. Perhaps he was close to some Highborne who became arrogant over time or ma

But his daughter Stellagosa does resuem an elven visage.

We don't really know if Senegos ever had a different Visage or not, but I assume most dragons pick a Visage and tend to stick with it over the course of their lives. When I first saw Senegos in his Visage form I thought it being a troll was fitting, because Senegos is one of the most ancient dragons left, apparently the oldest non-Aspect dragon still alive, and with his advanced age likely chose a Visage in a time before the elves were the predominant race on Azeroth. He might've also identified more with the trolls than the elves, too; perhaps finding them closer to his own philosophy or personality.

[Daedius]

But elves evolved from Trolls... er go Dragons are a bunch of trolls.

[Mace]

At least for now we have no hint that the first mortal race (trolls) has a connection to the elements. They naturally emerged through the Well of Eternity which is connected to the Arcane domain, being the liquid blood of Azeroth herself.
All elf races developed from there. First the Night Elves, then the High Elves and Nightborne, then Blood and Void Elves.

Dragons chose the visage that fit best with the races they wanted to contact (Don't ask me why most of them could be High Elves long before that race existed though). But a very old Dragon like Senegos for example has a Troll visage, likely because they were still predominantly ruling Azeroth when he decided on it. Not that he is older then Alex and the rest but... ugh... this is very confusing.

In the most simple manner... Alex and the rest transform into elves because elves are visually pleasing creatures, the High Elves may very well be the most beautiful race on Azeroth by very simplified standards and ommiting personal taste, so a dragon that wants to look good in both visage and dragon form is more likely to pick that form.

Although the game models choose different faces and silhouettes, night elves and high elves are identical traditionally, in the sense that it's only things like height and skin colour rather than type of face that differs. We only have this difference in game model for player purposes. However in classic before blood elves become playable and in WC3, they have the same model skeleton.

I think the flights that choose high elven forms did so because they use to visit the Quel'thalas a lot. Sunwell Trilogy mentions this, they had much more interaction in the Eastern kingdoms, where there lairs seemed to be, and now it appears, closer to the dragon isles, than they did those in Kalimdor. Bronze are in Tanaris due to the importance of the location to their work. And because of the work with druids, and only night elves are druids, the greens were probably closer to Nordrassil most of the time, but we know they are also in the Eastern kingdoms.

Blues also turning to high elf/human forms makes sense as for nearly 10,000 years those are the only groups openly using arcane magic, as the kaldorei are all in isolation, whether the Hyjal lot, the Eldre'thalas lot or the Suramar/Azsuna lot, they are totally removed from the affairs of the world , single mindedly focused on their life (whether long vigil, insane magical study/obsession or thinking they're the only ones who survived the sundering trapped in the bubble of their own making).

[DatToffer]

I'm confused, are you talking about affinity/association or biology/evolutionary links ?

[Mace]

That's possible, although I don't think the Black Dragonflight would really be super-interested in honoring their Titanic roots given Deathwing's view on the Titans' "gift" to him actually being a burden and a curse.

Which might explain even further going human, as it's a "curse of flesh" alteration of titan creations, he might have enjoyed the irony.

We don't really know if Senegos ever had a different Visage or not, but I assume most dragons pick a Visage and tend to stick with it over the course of their lives. When I first saw Senegos in his Visage form I thought it being a troll was fitting, because Senegos is one of the most ancient dragons left, apparently the oldest non-Aspect dragon still alive, and with his advanced age likely chose a Visage in a time before the elves were the predominant race on Azeroth. He might've also identified more with the trolls than the elves, too; perhaps finding them closer to his own philosophy or personality.

I thought it interesting, but it felt like an FU to the elves after they went all abusive with magic his flight holds precious. It's just that dragons seldom interacted with trolls, and trolls were not arcane users (no arcane culture or study), it would be unusual and odd for a blue to take a form of that race, unless something else motivated it.

The blues are the only flight to have interacted openly with the elves as far as we know, before the sundering, and it makes sense they did so with the night elves at the heart of the Well of Eternity and an arcane/nature magical empire. I mean you could be right, but Senegos is found in Azsuna, it's nowhere near troll lands, his children take elven form, and he is pissed off at the Elves for their hubris... /shrug.

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I'm confused, are you talking about affinity/association or biology/evolutionary links ?

Both, the suspicion is some biological links in a common elemental base root, but the connection seems to have evidence is affinity/association. I am thinking it might be both. Might be a bit out htere.

[Breccia]

My theory that also explains why they mostly take elven forms.

See, my theory on that was "Blizz didn't want to re-invent the wheel just to give Alexstraza boobs".

[Wayne25uk]

Meanwhile, The Elves evolved from the Trolls after the Titan Blood blessed them and reshaped them.

This is wrong btw, its stated multiple times in lore and even in the lore books found in game that the magic from the well of eternity altered the trolls, nothing to do with Titan blood, not sure why people are asking these questions, if you have played the game since its inception then you already have all the answers both in game and outside.

[Aucald]

Which might explain even further going human, as it's a "curse of flesh" alteration of titan creations, he might have enjoyed the irony.

Also a possibility.

I thought it interesting, but it felt like an FU to the elves after they went all abusive with magic his flight holds precious. It's just that dragons seldom interacted with trolls, and trolls were not arcane users (no arcane culture or study), it would be unusual and odd for a blue to take a form of that race, unless something else motivated it.

We don't really know how much interaction the dragons had with the early Zandalari empire, but I think it's a mistake to say that the trolls weren't arcane users. The Zandalari were among the first humanoid races to actually begin cultivating the Arcane, and they definitely knew and know how to use it. The trolls' complex use of the Arcane predates the elves, as related by Zanza the Restless and other parties. I would imagine the early Blue Dragonflight and other individuals among the dragons would take note and be interested in the growing power of Zandalar.

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This is wrong btw, its stated multiple times in lore and even in the lore books found in game that the magic from the well of eternity altered the trolls, nothing to do with Titan blood, not sure why people are asking these questions, if you have played the game since its inception then you already have all the answers both in game and outside.

The energies of the Well of Eternity are the essence or "blood" of Azeroth, and Azeroth herself is a Titan. So I'd say that's a fair statement.

[Varodoc]

This is wrong btw, its stated multiple times in lore and even in the lore books found in game that the magic from the well of eternity altered the trolls, nothing to do with Titan blood, not sure why people are asking these questions, if you have played the game since its inception then you already have all the answers both in game and outside.

The Well of Eternity is literally formed from the World-Soul's lifeblood, as it was created on the gaping wound created after Aman'thul ripped off Y'Shaarj from the land...

So Yes, it was the Titan World-Soul energies that caused the Trolls to evolve into Elves.

[Garymorilix]

Again, you're reading way too much into this just because it vaguely connects to elves somehow in your mind.

Most dragons have elven visage forms because for some reason Blizzard forgot to give a shit about the lore when it comes to visage forms and just went with the generic high-fantasy trope route.
Look at the Drakthyr intro videos, Deathwing has a human visage form before humans even existed.

Some visage forms are justified, like Ebonhorn or Wrathion.
Ebonhorn was hiding in the highmountain society and Wrathion literally told us he chose what he has cuz it looks cool (and he was born in Cata so he's not ancient).

As for any of the ancient dragons? It's just Blizzard's unnecessary hard-on for elves in general.
There is no reason why they shouldn't be trolls some other ancient non-elven race.

[Loreth88]

The energies of the Well of Eternity are the essence or "blood" of Azeroth, and Azeroth herself is a Titan. So I'd say that's a fair statement.

Yes, but we still don't know the connection of the Well and Elune. Why they evolved to look like "upper part" of Cenarius (and his sons and daughters) who look like a half stag by Malorne and half humanoid by his mother Elune. This divine connection still a mystery.

[Varodoc]

Yes, but we still don't know the connection of the Well and Elune. Why they evolved to look like "upper part" of Cenarius (and his sons and daughters) who look like a half stag by Malorne and half humanoid by his mother Elune. This divine connection still a mystery.

Eonar's planet was called "Elunaria".

The Tears of Elune were one of the Titan Pillars of Creation.

It's clear that there are some connections between the Titans (Eonar in particular) and Elune, and so it's not far-fetched to assume that there is a connection between the lifeblood of the World-Soul and Elune.

Regardless, the Well of Eternity is made up of the Titan World-Soul lifeblood and it's what caused the Trolls to evolve into Elves. What caused the Proto-dragons to evolve into the Dragons we know today was also Titan energy. These are facts.

[Aucald]

Yes, but we still don't know the connection of the Well and Elune. Why they evolved to look like "upper part" of Cenarius (and his sons and daughters) who look like a half stag by Malorne and half humanoid by his mother Elune. This divine connection still a mystery.

I'd say there is none, really. The Night Elves had a belief that Elune "lived in the Well" or some such, but based on what we know of the Well now, and what we know of Elune, that seems unlikely. As for why Cenarius looks partially like a Night Elf, that's probably down to self-actualization on his part. Cenarius is equal parts celestial demi-god and terrestrial demi-god/spirit, so his physical form is largely up to him. It's likely he took part of his form from his father Malorne, and another part from either the society that revered his father (the ancient Kaldorei) or perhaps his mother, who took the guise of a Night Elf herself to commune with her favored people on Azeroth.

Either way, nothing really connects any of them directly to the Well of Eternity in the sense that the Well wouldn't be of Titanic origin, being a wellspring of the Azeroth world-soul's own Titanic essence.

[Loreth88]

Eonar's planet was called "Elunaria".

The Tears of Elune were one of the Titan Pillars of Creation.

It's clear that there are some connections between the Titans (Eonar in particular) and Elune, and so it's not far-fetched to assume that there is a connection between the lifeblood of the World-Soul and Elune.

Regardless, the Well of Eternity is made up of the Titan World-Soul lifeblood and it's what caused the Trolls to evolve into Elves. What caused the Proto-dragons to evolve into the Dragons we know today was also Titan energy. These are facts.

Yes facts, but they raise more questions than giving answers. There is a connection between the energies of the well and the power or influence of Elune.
Who is influencing who? Eonar do it to Elune or the Goddess do it to Eonar?
It doesn't matter which one is true, it's true in terms of the topic, but even if it sounds stupid, the greens can adopt the shape closer to the goddess out of respect, because she is somehow connected to Eonar.

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I'd say there is none, really. The Night Elves had a belief that Elune "lived in the Well" or some such, but based on what we know of the Well now, and what we know of Elune, that seems unlikely. As for why Cenarius looks partially like a Night Elf, that's probably down to self-actualization on his part. Cenarius is equal parts celestial demi-god and terrestrial demi-god/spirit, so his physical form is largely up to him. It's likely he took part of his form from his father Malorne, and another part from either the society that revered his father (the ancient Kaldorei) or perhaps his mother, who took the guise of a Night Elf herself to commune with her favored people on Azeroth.

Either way, nothing really connects any of them directly to the Well of Eternity in the sense that the Well wouldn't be of Titanic origin, being a wellspring of the Azeroth world-soul's own Titanic essence.

Yes we still don't know (maybe that's the better) how Elune look like, that knowledge can give answer. Even Cenarius is alaive, but no one really ask him about anything.