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  1. #1

    BFA is the worst choice for newbie players

    I decided to level via BFA recently and remembered why I had hated it immediately. As you know, currently newbies are directed to BFA content and being unable to pick other xpack via Chromie time. Bad mistake. While BFA has the most up to date graphics, it's also terribly overtuned xpack. Too high density of mobs. Mob routes are designed to overlap, so "accidental" pulls are inevitable, so player has to constantly deal with 3-4 mobs at the same time. Critters, having elephant's amount of XP, being aggroed via AOE, that is inevitable for some classes/specs. Mobs, having 30K HP, while player has only 1.5K DPS, so it takes up to 20 secs to kill every mob. And the worst thing - despite of being older than SL, BFA is scaled up to 60lvl, so player just can't drop out of Chromie time and outlevel this content without going to DF's zones.

    I think it's terrible mistake. Providing so overtuned content as first game experience to newbie players. Chance, that they quit before getting to max level, is very high. Of course may be Blizzard want to re-educate their players, so they would get used to overtuned game and treat is as new norm. But I think, that it's counter-productive. Blizzard do such stupid things and then they wonder, why nobody plays their game and why they have to implement such things, as Trading Post, to keep existing playerbase subbed, instead of having persistent stream of new players.

    I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.

  2. #2
    Funny you think that. Perhaps your perspective is skewed since you've played other expansions. I've talked to multiple new people, including those in newcomer chat, and none of them have once complained or had any of the issues you illustrated.

    Also, you complain about how long it takes to kill a mob where Blizzard has said they'd like you to go through your rotation once or twice while leveling. At max level and gear its a different story.

    I think you are letting your jaded perspective of "everything bad" cloud your judgment and how you view the expansion. Even when it was current I didn't once have the issue you are even illustrating.

  3. #3
    I mean just the dungeon man. As a newbie you start with either Freehold or Atal'dazar and there's always that one veteran fucker on an alt who wants to skip to the last boss or will jump straight to Rezan, complain people don't know the strat and leave.

  4. #4
    Epic! Pheraz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    I decided to level via BFA recently and remembered why I had hated it immediately. As you know, currently newbies are directed to BFA content and being unable to pick other xpack via Chromie time. Bad mistake. While BFA has the most up to date graphics, it's also terribly overtuned xpack. Too high density of mobs. Mob routes are designed to overlap, so "accidental" pulls are inevitable, so player has to constantly deal with 3-4 mobs at the same time. Critters, having elephant's amount of XP, being aggroed via AOE, that is inevitable for some classes/specs. Mobs, having 30K HP, while player has only 1.5K DPS, so it takes up to 20 secs to kill every mob. And the worst thing - despite of being older than SL, BFA is scaled up to 60lvl, so player just can't drop out of Chromie time and outlevel this content without going to DF's zones.

    I think it's terrible mistake. Providing so overtuned content as first game experience to newbie players. Chance, that they quit before getting to max level, is very high. Of course may be Blizzard want to re-educate their players, so they would get used to overtuned game and treat is as new norm. But I think, that it's counter-productive. Blizzard do such stupid things and then they wonder, why nobody plays their game and why they have to implement such things, as Trading Post, to keep existing playerbase subbed, instead of having persistent stream of new players.
    Asb. wrong.

    1) the story flow + atmosphere + voice acting + videos is top notch and I think it is even ahead of dragonflight in those things
    2) it fits perfectly to the atmosphere of easter kingdoms
    3) most new players will not hit the dungeon tool anyways
    4) it is not a bad thing to die in a dungeon. you learn many things

    oh... I have no idea of horde though and I couldn't care less
    Zorn | Vynd | Pheraz | Sylwina | Mondlicht | Eis | Blut | Emerelle - Plus 20 more...

  5. #5
    I am Murloc! Maljinwo's Avatar
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    OP just has the worst takes

    Pay them no mind
    This world don't give us nothing. It be our lot to suffer... and our duty to fight back.

  6. #6
    Stood in the Fire Valette's Avatar
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    imo BFA (atleast from ally side) was the best leveling experience we've had since ... forever. So I fully understand why new players are sent that way. If its overtuned as you say, I wouldnt know, thats something that could easily be fixed without sending them somewhere else.

  7. #7
    Elemental Lord sam86's Avatar
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    for new players? i think only 'good' exp to lvl for new players is probably cata, since it is actually designed to lvl from 1, unlike every single other exp
    but is there even a new player now in wow in first place?
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
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    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by DatToffer View Post
    I mean just the dungeon man. As a newbie you start with either Freehold or Atal'dazar and there's always that one veteran fucker on an alt who wants to skip to the last boss or will jump straight to Rezan, complain people don't know the strat and leave.
    Doesn't matter really, normal dungeons are just cancer at all levels because veterans are all about efficiency ... either skipping most of it or tanks just go ahead and pull half the instance at a time ... a new player will simply not have a chance to understand anything that's going on.
    And if they dare to say a word .. insta kick

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    Funny you think that. Perhaps your perspective is skewed since you've played other expansions. I've talked to multiple new people, including those in newcomer chat, and none of them have once complained or had any of the issues you illustrated.

    Also, you complain about how long it takes to kill a mob where Blizzard has said they'd like you to go through your rotation once or twice while leveling. At max level and gear its a different story.

    I think you are letting your jaded perspective of "everything bad" cloud your judgment and how you view the expansion. Even when it was current I didn't once have the issue you are even illustrating.
    It's simple game mechanic. There is no such thing, as being wounded and therefore dealing reduced DMG in this game. While mob is alive - it deals it's full damage. It needs to be dead in order to reduce DMG to ((N - 1)/N)% of initial one, where N - is number of mobs, you fight against. So longer it takes to kill mob -> more damage your character takes, especially if you fight against more than 1 mob -> more self-healing is needed, that is performed at expense of DPS -> situation becomes exponentially worse. And there is threshold, after that may be you don't die, but game becomes simply unfun, as it becomes way TOO SLOW AND CLOGGY. And that's exact moment, when you say to yourself "F**k this s**t - I want to outlevel this mess", but you can't - because this game has scaling, that prevents you from doing it.

    Another factor - newbie player usually doesn't have heirlooms. And that makes situation even worse.

    Xpacks, that are recommended for new players: WOD, MOP, may be Cata, if it wouldn't require leveling in old pre-60 locations.
    Last edited by WowIsDead64; 2023-01-29 at 09:31 AM.

    I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Pheraz View Post
    oh... I have no idea of horde though and I couldn't care less
    My dude, you're talking like Horde play a different game in a different country.

    Quote Originally Posted by kranur View Post
    Doesn't matter really, normal dungeons are just cancer at all levels because veterans are all about efficiency ... either skipping most of it or tanks just go ahead and pull half the instance at a time ... a new player will simply not have a chance to understand anything that's going on.
    And if they dare to say a word .. insta kick
    That's the fucking worst part yeah.

  11. #11
    They chose BfA because it's the modern expansion that comes closest to embodying the themes and aesthetics of Warcraft, and simultaneously it's the most grounded from a progression standpoint. You're not going to send a newbie against space demons or space nipple janitor Thanos, but it would make sense to send a newbie to a human kingdom threatened by pirates, witches, and cultists. Or to send a newbie to an ancient empire threatened by rebels, blood cultists, and snake-men.

    It would be weird to send a newbie to the literal afterlife, where they have to discover the cosmic 54444 IQ masterplan of nipple janitor. But it does make sense to send a newbie to Kul Tiras, where they have to discover and expose the plans and plots of treacherous nobles who want the throne for themselves.

    This is the reason why they made BfA the baseline 10-60 questing experience.

  12. #12
    Epic! Pakheth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kranur View Post
    Doesn't matter really, normal dungeons are just cancer at all levels because veterans are all about efficiency ... either skipping most of it or tanks just go ahead and pull half the instance at a time ... a new player will simply not have a chance to understand anything that's going on.
    And if they dare to say a word .. insta kick
    Tell me about it.

    Did Timewalking yesterday on my Resto Shaman. This DH tank decided to just run ahead at full speed and pull everything. Even with almost constant Ghost Wolf and Gust of Wind I could seriously not keep up. He had died almost every time due to this if I hadn't managed to keep up with his insanity.
    Was super stressful in a type of content that doesn't have to be and I feel sorry for any new players in that group that didn't know what the tank was up to. He ofc didn't speak a single word either even when told to slow down...

  13. #13
    My girlfriend started playing yesterday the first time ever and she had all the problems you mentioned OP. I also recognized the same problems as you.

    I showed her how to get to pandaria and it got overall better for her experience

  14. #14
    Grunt Peaceul's Avatar
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    I kind of agree with op, i have made alt last time and wanted to chill out a bit with relaxing music, that used to be kind of vibe on low level dungeons but instead i am getting thrown into BFA dungeon, tank is getting 3 shotted by boss, newbs do not know mechanics (atal dazor), after wipe 2 guys leave, third guy left only to throw some curses and also left. I liked BFA dungeons but i do not think they are ideal to new players. Also Chromie and changing timelines is so hidden, almost no one knows that it even exists.

    I think changing timelines should be possible straight from UI and timelines sorted by poplualirty and wait times along with short description.
    Last edited by Peaceul; 2023-01-29 at 10:14 AM.

  15. #15
    I just recently had my wife and her friend play the new player experience / BfA.

    They both thought that the starting zone was a good, simple intro to the game. They both felt that the intro to BfA with meeting Jaina and the prison break was pretty cool, knowing zero about those characters. I can't comment on the mob difficulty for 2 people playing the game together, but they genuinely instantly stomped anything they came across... while also not really paying attention to their gear and few handful of talents / abilities. They both commented on how it was totally different than any other MMO they'd played (XIV, Genshin to an extensive degree) in how the game just tosses you in and lets you play instead of having cutscenes and tutorials non-stop for the first 20 hours.

    I feel like SL, Legion, and WoD would all have various degrees of "wtf is going on" story wise. MoP is a great adventurous setting, but the xpac has a lot of instances of weird quests that arrest control of your character.

  16. #16
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    Pardon me?

    Battle For Azeroth is one of the best choices to put new players with updated pathing, graphics, better sound, voice, and animations. The questing flows more efficiently, and you aren't taken aback once you come to newer content, unlike if you were sent to Cataclysm, and suddenly realizing, the content isn't like that no more. Dungeons are simple, the only ones who ruin ANY dungeons tend to be the ones with a one-set mind who expect people to read said mind, we cannot get rid of them as they are commonly in the group that Blizzard pampers to a lot.

    I have many new players who say that their only problem with getting to Zandalar or Kul Tiras is that there are group quests that they cannot do, but then they can ask in Newcomer chat, and commonly, someone will help, at least I always do.

    New players shouldn't have too much selection right off the bat to avoid confusion, better to put them in the main relative content and then they can choose with an alt after.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Akibaboy View Post
    I feel like SL, Legion, and WoD would all have various degrees of "wtf is going on" story wise. MoP is a great adventurous setting, but the xpac has a lot of instances of weird quests that arrest control of your character.
    Oh, I would 100% a newcomer expansion to be BFA or MoP - though, yes, MoP does have some moments where a player may get caught a bit more.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  17. #17
    Having new players have to use a good percentage of their abilities in combat/leveling be it because mobs have high health, accidental over pulls, or high mob density, what ever the reason is a good thing in my opinion. It helps people learn their chosen class in challenging situations and helps then discover ways to mitigate those instances when they occur. I remember situations where i was fighting more mobs than suitable whilst leveling and it being somewhat challenging and over coming it, and the feeling of going from "oh $#!t" to "oh yeah!" was great.

    The dungeon side, i can understand not knowing mechanics to the dungeons and people leaving after a wipe or two is frustrating, but that's more a people problem than game problem. People either have no patience or no empathy for new players/wiping. Having mechanics in leveling dungeons again helps teach new players that they have to adapt to situations in fights to overcome them. Doing a dungeon that has mechanics teaches you more about the game/your class/your role more than dungeons without mechanics where you just stand and shoot the boss til its dead. Its more engaging game-play.

    BFA did have quite a few elite mobs encountered through questing though i do admit. Mobs that had group finder attached to them as they were designed to be taken down with multiple players, afaik group finder isn't available pre-50 or is it 60 now ?

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    I decided to level via BFA recently and remembered why I had hated it immediately.
    so you went to content you already hated and are surprised you still hate it, and think its bad for new players bcs YOU hate it...
    its like having stomach cramps and saying now you know how women feel during period... you are not new player, so dont try to pretend your biased opinion that you ALREADY HAD before starting to play (as you said yourself) is in any way what new players will see...

    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    As you know, currently newbies are directed to BFA content and being unable to pick other xpack via Chromie time. Bad mistake.
    previously they were directed to vanila (well cata) zones, so BFA is MASSIVE improvement... it had a lot of shit going on but leveling experience is definitely not one of them, pretty much all issues were on lvl cap, which is now not a concern in BFA anyway...

    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    While BFA has the most up to date graphics, it's also terribly overtuned xpack. Too high density of mobs. Mob routes are designed to overlap, so "accidental" pulls are inevitable, so player has to constantly deal with 3-4 mobs at the same time. Critters, having elephant's amount of XP, being aggroed via AOE, that is inevitable for some classes/specs. Mobs, having 30K HP, while player has only 1.5K DPS, so it takes up to 20 secs to kill every mob.
    yeah, none of this is true... i specificaly made zandalari (rogue) to check but at lvl 10 (which is roughly when new players get there after the exiles reach) i had 420hp and mobs 120, and died after 2-3 abilities at most... sure, that will be different on higher level but not as drasticaly as you pretend, so no, its not overtuned in slightest...
    sounds like you are just full of shit and most likely havent even actualy played it...

    EDIT: just checked on lvl 60 alt, lvl 59 mobs (bears) outside boralus have 21k hp and died on 3 arcane blast + 1 arcane barrage each... so seems like i was right, you havent even played it...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Akibaboy View Post
    I can't comment on the mob difficulty for 2 people playing the game together, but they genuinely instantly stomped anything they came across... while also not really paying attention to their gear and few handful of talents / abilities.
    you dont think someone with nick "wowisdead64" would lie just to shit on wow? :O
    nah, i know he did it previously in different threads but surely now he is completely honest! /s
    Last edited by Lolites; 2023-01-29 at 11:06 AM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    yeah, none of this is true... i specificaly made zandalari (rogue) to check but at lvl 10 (which is roughly when new players get there after the exiles reach) i had 420hp and mobs 120, and died after 2-3 abilities at most... sure, that will be different on higher level but not as drasticaly as you pretend, so no, its not overtuned in slightest...
    sounds like you are just full of shit and most likely havent even actualy played it...
    Nah, the specific dude either has some sort of physical disability that holds him back, or he is really as terrible as he lets out, either way his posts are always like this.

    Its good that the new players start from BFA, the game design changed there for every content and now maybe they can be faced with the proper experience of the last 2-3 expansions, and not the shitfest of the first expansions.

    Cause its very normal, leveling in pointless Wailing Caverns, and then at max level you have to learn what the "Shield at the castbar is" and what "Interrupt" is, and not to run into mobs.

    Let them wipe in BFA, maybe they wont all be competely useless at max level that way.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    yeah, none of this is true... i specificaly made zandalari (rogue) to check but at lvl 10 (which is roughly when new players get there after the exiles reach) i had 420hp and mobs 120, and died after 2-3 abilities at most... sure, that will be different on higher level but not as drasticaly as you pretend, so no, its not overtuned in slightest...
    sounds like you are just full of shit and most likely havent even actualy played it...
    Low level characters are intentionally scaled to be OP in order to compensate lack of important abilities and talents. Problems start at higher levels. I have 20K HP, mobs have 30K HP. I have 1.5K DPS, that drops by almost 50%, when I use self-healing. And I don't even play weak class. Class I play is above average. There are classes/specs, that require casting their self-healing spells. And when you cast - you don't deal DMG, while mobs still hit you. Efficiency of such self-healing approaches zero in some cases. And some classes don't have any self-healing at all.

    I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.

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