1. #2181
    Quote Originally Posted by Vetali View Post
    Somehow I don't see Russ taking prove it deal unless its a team like I said, has a stacked defense with a great run game. Not how he rolls. Taking a team friendly deal might reduce his wealth.
    It isn't a matter of what he wants. I don't think any team would be dumb enough to sign him to a massive deal at this point.

  2. #2182
    I wonder where Joe Flacco will end up next year. As the Browns will have Deshaun Watson coming back.

    Joe Flacco won a Superbowl for the Ravens in 2012 season over the 49ers.

    He is 38 , put has been playing off the charts lately for the Browns and will most likely do so again today against the Jets.

    I reckon the Browns with Joe Flacco could make a deep run into the playoffs.

    AFC North is a Tough Division
    Last edited by Hugo88; 2023-12-28 at 07:47 PM.

  3. #2183
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    So basically he can take a minimum deal and he makes the same as if they offer him 20 mill?

    And doesn’t his contract extend two years so there would be offsets on the second year too?
    Yep. The Broncos pay him 39M whatever else happens. Russ' new team will pay him what they will and that gets deducted from what the Broncos pay him. The only beneficiary is the Broncos, so Russ' next team would be fools to pay more than the minimum.

    And with Russ being cut he is eligible to whatever he was guaranteed, but pretty sure that is only 1 year currently (and why they need to cut him within 5 days of the offseason starting, or the guarantees beyond next season kick in too).

    I'm not sure if offsets work beyond 1 year. Russ would get paid if his contract said he would be, but not sure the Broncos get offset in subsequent years. I don't think any team has been foolish enough to let it get to that. lol

  4. #2184
    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    Yep. The Broncos pay him 39M whatever else happens. Russ' new team will pay him what they will and that gets deducted from what the Broncos pay him. The only beneficiary is the Broncos, so Russ' next team would be fools to pay more than the minimum.

    And with Russ being cut he is eligible to whatever he was guaranteed, but pretty sure that is only 1 year currently (and why they need to cut him within 5 days of the offseason starting, or the guarantees beyond next season kick in too).

    I'm not sure if offsets work beyond 1 year. Russ would get paid if his contract said he would be, but not sure the Broncos get offset in subsequent years. I don't think any team has been foolish enough to let it get to that. lol
    From what I've read: the offset is only the year he is cut--so just 2024. The Broncos are still on the hook for copious amounts of dead cap in 2025 though--but best to rip the band-aid off here and eat it now (in my opinion).

  5. #2185
    Quote Originally Posted by Espo View Post
    From what I've read: the offset is only the year he is cut--so just 2024. The Broncos are still on the hook for copious amounts of dead cap in 2025 though--but best to rip the band-aid off here and eat it now (in my opinion).
    This is correct from everything I have seen.

    It would have got a lot worse if they didn't do it after this season because his 2025 salary would have became fully guaranteed. I think the dead cap to move on after 2025 would have been $86m or something. The options were to move on now, move on after 2025 and still be in the same dead cap situation or keep him even longer at $55m a year cap hits. Only better move than this would have been never trading for him in the first place.

  6. #2186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grube View Post
    This is correct from everything I have seen.

    It would have got a lot worse if they didn't do it after this season because his 2025 salary would have became fully guaranteed. I think the dead cap to move on after 2025 would have been $86m or something. The options were to move on now, move on after 2025 and still be in the same dead cap situation or keep him even longer at $55m a year cap hits. Only better move than this would have been never trading for him in the first place.
    You needed to get something near Prime Russ to make the trade worth it. What you ended up getting was way worse than anyone could have reasonably expected though.

    It lead to a cascade of moves around the league and is probably one of the biggest What Ifs of the last 10 years. Depending on how things work out with Deshaun Watson in Cleveland it might not have even been the biggest blunder or What If that offseason though. Amazing.

  7. #2187
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    Quote Originally Posted by cordrann View Post
    It isn't a matter of what he wants. I don't think any team would be dumb enough to sign him to a massive deal at this point.
    He has a baseball agent. Baseball players typically set their dollar amount and wait for a team to pay that. Russ has always wanted top dollar, and I think with the lack of QB talent he can still get paid in this league. That said if getting paid more helps the Broncos then maybe he takes a lower deal.

  8. #2188
    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    Depending on how things work out with Deshaun Watson in Cleveland it might not have even been the biggest blunder or What If that offseason though. Amazing.
    I mean the Wilson trade was bad, extending his contract even worse but no way is it as bad as Watson's full guarantee contract while also trading the farm to get him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    I think, off field issues aside, the Watson move was more defensible from a football perspective.
    I mean that is a take I suppose. Look at what the Browns gave up for Watson and how much they are paying him. This is for a player that also missed how many games of football due to the Texans sitting him, the suspension for a year and what 10 games into last year?

  9. #2189
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    I think, off field issues aside, the Watson move was more defensible from a football perspective. Watson is dead in his prime years. Wilson is an older, small athletic qb who clashed with management at his prior team, presumably due to a lack of acceptance of his growing limitations as a qb.

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    If a team wanted him that badly they could try to structure a contract with really low actual cash in year 1 and then actually pay him in year 2. But I also wonder if he could be convinced to take a “prove it” one year deal.
    Or a deal like ironically Geno Smith where its heavily incentivized and gives the team a void year if he lays an egg again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    I mean the Wilson trade was bad, extending his contract even worse but no way is it as bad as Watson's full guarantee contract while also trading the farm to get him.

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    I mean that is a take I suppose. Look at what the Browns gave up for Watson and how much they are paying him. This is for a player that also missed how many games of football due to the Texans sitting him, the suspension for a year and what 10 games into last year?
    Browns traded for and paid a fully GT'd contract to a guy that sat out a year because he didn't want to play, and then it was found out that he also was a piece of shit human. Browns didn't care about that though because #winning. Now hes hurt with a shoulder injury and have Joe fuckin Flacco playing QB for them.

    Broncos hired a HC to get Aaron Rodgers, failed to get Rodgers, decided to trade a shit ton for Wilson, paid Wilson before he took a snap, he stunk it up, fired the HC, traded for a HC that was supposed to fix him, he couldn't fix him, so now they are eating just south of 90m over 2 years to tell Wilson to fuck off.

    Both are terrible just writing that out... lol, but I think the Browns and Watson are slightly worse because of Watson being a piece of shit.

  10. #2190
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    I also think that these moves are showing how important the overall system is for qbs. Russ was terrible last year. This year under a better coach he was average. Meanwhile Seahawks immediately turned Geno into a capable player.
    Absolutely, to an extent. Wilson's core flaw has always been that he couldn't see over the middle. His + athleticism allowed him to make those crazy, just escaping a sack by the fingertips plays. Now that hes older and slower he can't make those plays. So hes essentially a checkdown QB that can occasionally throw an explosive play. Can work in the right system with a good RB and screen game.

    I think it was last game with the hail mary attempt by Wilson. I think he only threw that ball like 45-50 yards? It was a moon ball way short of the goal line. If thats the max he can throw he might just be cooked.

  11. #2191
    Quote Originally Posted by Vetali View Post
    I think it was last game with the hail mary attempt by Wilson. I think he only threw that ball like 45-50 yards? It was a moon ball way short of the goal line. If thats the max he can throw he might just be cooked.
    The line of scrimmage was his own 27 and I think it landed at the 20. I don't remember how deep he was when he threw it, but probably wasn't much more than 55 yards. He's had a few very under thrown deep balls that got ignored because they ended up with DPI calls from the receiver coming back through the DB too. I don't know how far he used to be able to throw, but it's not very far compared to other QBs now.

  12. #2192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grube View Post
    The line of scrimmage was his own 27 and I think it landed at the 20. I don't remember how deep he was when he threw it, but probably wasn't much more than 55 yards. He's had a few very under thrown deep balls that got ignored because they ended up with DPI calls from the receiver coming back through the DB too. I don't know how far he used to be able to throw, but it's not very far compared to other QBs now.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kmwsw3Matxc

    That was 2017 I think? Whatever year Luck retired, because I remember being hyped about another Wilson vs Luck game. Russ could sling it back then and made it look effortless. Knew something was wrong when he stopped being able to hit WRs in stride. Lockett and DK always having to adjust to the ball.

  13. #2193
    Quote Originally Posted by Vetali View Post
    Absolutely, to an extent. Wilson's core flaw has always been that he couldn't see over the middle. His + athleticism allowed him to make those crazy, just escaping a sack by the fingertips plays. Now that hes older and slower he can't make those plays. So hes essentially a checkdown QB that can occasionally throw an explosive play. Can work in the right system with a good RB and screen game.

    I think it was last game with the hail mary attempt by Wilson. I think he only threw that ball like 45-50 yards? It was a moon ball way short of the goal line. If thats the max he can throw he might just be cooked.
    Also just goes to show how much better Drew Brees was in this system than Russel Wilson. Cause Brees in his last few years was a checkdown king with supreme accuracy.

  14. #2194
    Quote Originally Posted by Vetali View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kmwsw3Matxc

    That was 2017 I think? Whatever year Luck retired, because I remember being hyped about another Wilson vs Luck game. Russ could sling it back then and made it look effortless. Knew something was wrong when he stopped being able to hit WRs in stride. Lockett and DK always having to adjust to the ball.
    He's definitely lost it on those, his deep balls just look like they die mid air compared to that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    Also just goes to show how much better Drew Brees was in this system than Russel Wilson. Cause Brees in his last few years was a checkdown king with supreme accuracy.
    That's something else Brees and Wilson are complete opposites with. Wilson's checkdowns and screen passes are not accurate at all. Felt like the guy he threw to needed to spin around or reach for them more often than not even with no pressure on Wilson.

  15. #2195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    Also just goes to show how much better Drew Brees was in this system than Russel Wilson. Cause Brees in his last few years was a checkdown king with supreme accuracy.
    Brees was at an age where he was okay with being a checkdown QB. Wilson wont when hes 35 and wanting to play as long as Brady and Brees did.

  16. #2196
    I bet the Browns wish they could move on from Watson and try to sign Flacco for another year or two at this point.

  17. #2197
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    Browns going to the playoffs on their 4th string FA signed QB, with a 11-5 record going into the last week. Impressive stuff, don't think the Flacco magic will hold up in the playoffs though.

  18. #2198
    Even with all the other weird things this season the elite dragon going in from off the couch after how awful he was in Denver and NY and throwing for 1600 yard and 13 TDs in 5 games might top the list.

  19. #2199
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    So the Cleveland Browns can still end up 1st in AFC north, pushing the Baltimore Browns to second.

  20. #2200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grube View Post
    Even with all the other weird things this season the elite dragon going in from off the couch after how awful he was in Denver and NY and throwing for 1600 yard and 13 TDs in 5 games might top the list.
    Did anyone important come back from injury to play well this season? Flacco might have a chance at Comeback Player of the Year.

    EDIT: Forgot about Damar Hamlin. He might be impossible to beat.

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