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  1. #61
    The Undying Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    A) The Jordan Love situation is not one you want to emulate. We have no idea if Love is gonna be a real QB yet and his rookie contract is almost gone.
    B) He was sitting behind a HOF QB still playing at MVP level, not Derek Carr.
    Yeah Love is a great case of "you made him sit so long the pick now looks idiotic because you didn't actually need him."

    But as for folks saying you can't draft a rookie with Carr around, I present to you Patrick Mahomes and Alex Smith. There's benefit sometimes to having a servicable Wild Card-tier QB around so you don't throw your rookie to the wolves until you make sure he's ready and you have a playbook for him.
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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    We are pretty sure we know who Carr is.
    I mean, we were pretty sure Geno Smith was a laughing stock that was barely hanging on and staying in the league...until last season when he played like an MVP at times.

    Not saying we don;t know who Carr is by now, but, in that specific comparison its a little weird to make. All Geno needed was good coaching to break out. Who knows what happens with the Saints if they give Carr the keys and build things around what he can do, instead of making him play a system he's not comfortable in, like in LV last year.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    But as for folks saying you can't draft a rookie with Carr around, I present to you Patrick Mahomes and Alex Smith. There's benefit sometimes to having a servicable Wild Card-tier QB around so you don't throw your rookie to the wolves until you make sure he's ready and you have a playbook for him.
    I feel like the effect of sitting Mahomes for a year behind Alex Smith is overblown. Mahomes would still have been good if he played his rookie year. He's a generational talent. He didn't "come into his own" by sitting for a year.

    Playing a rookie QB just means you know what you have sooner rather than later. The situation with Lance and Love is ass cause you could potentially have franchise guys and have no idea.

    In that way, I think the Jets situation is better: they know Zach Wilson is a bust, and they can move on.

  4. #64
    Immortal Vetali's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    Agreed. The big thing is I don't think Carr has much upside, and Geno might have room to grow. We are pretty sure we know who Carr is.

    If the Saints had a stacked roster otherwise, maybe Carr is ok, but even with a stacked roster I think you'd prefer the mediocre guy who's got some running ability over the mediocre guy who doesn't.
    The biggest upside with Geno is he seems very coachable. Really an ideal QB for Pete. If last season was the peak of Geno, then oh well especially if the rumors are true and its a very front loaded contract. I fully expect Seattle to draft a QB at some point this draft regardless.

    Problem with the Saints is they were in cap hell prior to adding Carr. Even though they back loaded the F outta his contract, they are still in shitty waters. Thats an ugly situation just looking at overthecap.

  5. #65
    The Insane draynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    Yeah it is a weird statistic and does say some bad things about how the Saints functioned over the years. To be fair they also had Brees forever so no reason to draft one that high during that period.
    Plus sometimes things just don't work out. They were gonna take Mahomes before the Chiefs traded up.
    /s

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Vetali View Post
    Problem with the Saints is they were in cap hell prior to adding Carr. Even though they back loaded the F outta his contract, they are still in shitty waters. Thats an ugly situation just looking at overthecap.
    Saints are perfectly fine and been in 'cap hell' for going on what, 12 years now? They're fine, they are masters of the cap and only got caught with their pants down when the cap went down due to covid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    Plus sometimes things just don't work out. They were gonna take Mahomes before the Chiefs traded up.
    Yeah but Brees had a few good years left, but of course if they had Mahomes, yeesh.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vetali View Post
    Thats an ugly situation just looking at overthecap.
    I don;t recall the Saints being in a "pretty" cap situation since like the year after they drafted Lattimore, I think? It's been like this for years and they still competed during most of it, and you can make a pretty good case that their current problem (at least on offense) begins with bad QB play the last 2 years. It makes sense for them to get a more established guy they have at least some vague history with and try and see what is there.

    This might be a different situation if they were in the AFC West or whatever, but NFC South looks WIDE open next season. And if you can get a division title, and get in the playoffs, who knows what might happen? At worst you have a division crown to add to your resume.

    But yeah, this might also blow up spectacularly if Dennis Allen doesn't figure it out and Carr plays the same he did last year or worse. That's the risk they take.

  8. #68
    The Insane draynay's Avatar
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    We don't concern ourselves with the cap. As for risks, the biggest risk would've been staying with the guys we already had, with the state of the division being aggressive is the right move.
    /s

  9. #69
    Didn't realize Derek Carr was the aggressive move. I'd almost rather gamble on a rookie QB, but I don't know NO's capability to move up to take one.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    I don;t recall the Saints being in a "pretty" cap situation since like the year after they drafted Lattimore, I think? It's been like this for years and they still competed during most of it, and you can make a pretty good case that their current problem (at least on offense) begins with bad QB play the last 2 years. It makes sense for them to get a more established guy they have at least some vague history with and try and see what is there.

    This might be a different situation if they were in the AFC West or whatever, but NFC South looks WIDE open next season. And if you can get a division title, and get in the playoffs, who knows what might happen? At worst you have a division crown to add to your resume.

    But yeah, this might also blow up spectacularly if Dennis Allen doesn't figure it out and Carr plays the same he did last year or worse. That's the risk they take.
    I don't see it as a big risk. It would have been terrible to stay with Dalton as you knew what the ceiling for that team was, low. The thing the Saints have been lacking is someone that can throw the deep ball and Carr can do it. We have some crazy good young speed receivers that should make the underneath throws a lot easier to complete as the defense has to take the Saints deep passing game seriously for once.

    I know I can't wait to see Carr launch a deep ball towards Shaheed.

    And yes the Saints division is wide open barring some crazy QB moves to the Panters/Falcons so why not take that shot. You get some home field cooking and you can go far.

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    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    We don't concern ourselves with the cap. As for risks, the biggest risk would've been staying with the guys we already had, with the state of the division being aggressive is the right move.
    Yeah outside of landing Jackson in a crazy trade I'm not sure what else the Saints could have done. I like the move for Carr and the price is very reasonable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    Didn't realize Derek Carr was the aggressive move. I'd almost rather gamble on a rookie QB, but I don't know NO's capability to move up to take one.
    I mean you're talking moving up from pick 29 to the top 5. That is a MASSIVE price and would cost more than a one next year to move up that high I think. Now if a QB fell down the draft I could see the move, but now they don't have to make that move I think.

  11. #71
    The Lightbringer ProphetFlume's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    I feel like the effect of sitting Mahomes for a year behind Alex Smith is overblown. Mahomes would still have been good if he played his rookie year. He's a generational talent. He didn't "come into his own" by sitting for a year.

    Playing a rookie QB just means you know what you have sooner rather than later. The situation with Lance and Love is ass cause you could potentially have franchise guys and have no idea.

    In that way, I think the Jets situation is better: they know Zach Wilson is a bust, and they can move on.
    Then you have guys like hurts and jones who looked completely droppable until year 3 where one was league mvp and the other looked above average. Or mayfield who looked different every season and could be the next Fitzpatrick.

    Though I still think jones is closer to an ok backup than someone worth paying money for, but he’s going to get the money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    This might be a different situation if they were in the AFC West or whatever, but NFC South looks WIDE open next season. And if you can get a division title, and get in the playoffs, who knows what might happen? At worst you have a division crown to add to your resume.
    What are peoples guesses for nfcs next year?

    Gonna say falcons win the division, saints wild card, bucs last.
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  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    Didn't realize Derek Carr was the aggressive move. I'd almost rather gamble on a rookie QB, but I don't know NO's capability to move up to take one.
    It's him or somebody like Jimmy G or Brissett.
    Getting into QB draft range would be crazy expensive, and this move doesn't mean they can't still do that.
    /s

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Vetali View Post
    Resigning Geno for 105m over 3 years after seeing that Carr deal makes me feel better. At least Geno played well last season. Carr has been cheeks for a while.
    Good fucking lord, Geno Smith from NFL failure to a 100+ million deal after 1 good year? QB money is out of control.

    Assuming his injury heals well enough imagine having Brock Purdy on 7th round money while Carr and Geno are making 100+ mil. The NFL has officially lost their damn mind with these deals. I understand it's the current market value thanks to idiotic moves by teams like the Broncos but it still seems like such a waste of money for merely above average QB play. The bengals cap will be beyond fucked when they resign Burrow.
    Last edited by Tech614; 2023-03-07 at 05:29 AM.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Good fucking lord, Geno Smith from NFL failure to a 100+ million deal after 1 good year? QB money is out of control.
    I mean, there's been signs over the past decade that Geno was actually good, but didn't get much of a chance after being hugely mismanaged/undeveloped by the Jets at the start of his career. I remember reading something in like October when it was clear Geno was playing well that he had played well as a backup some years prior for some other team.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    It's him or somebody like Jimmy G or Brissett.
    Yeah, of the QBs out there on the market (which is a better crop this year than usual even) I think Carr is the safest bet to succeed on a new team. Jimmy is better, but with significant injury risk/history. Brissett is a nice guy and great leader, but you are probably better off with Dalton even in that case, unless your coach can get a Geno type turnaround out of him.

    You know, I just looked at the list of Free Agent QBs, and of the QBs out there, you know who I wouldn't mind taking a bet on? Mike White, currently on the Jets.

    He never got a fair shake by the Jets, and played well for a stretch for them, then got hurt in the ribs and played through it and looked awful. But if you get that good stretch Mike White, on a reasonable contract that won't break the bank? That might be a lowkey season winner for a team like the Bucs who are in limbo.

    And does White really want to go back to the Jets who never gave him a fair chance, and stuck him behind Flacco and Zach fucking Wilson and then made him play hurt cause they didn't trust anyone else anymore?

    I'd bail on them in a heartbeat.


    But yeah that's going to be my Free Agency random player I track. Where does Mike White end up?

  16. #76
    The Insane draynay's Avatar
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    QB free agency is usually like this. Normally there isn't a Drew Brees to sign because most franchises aren't as inept as the Chargers.
    /s

  17. #77
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    I have zero expectations of veteran starting quarterbacks changing teams anymore. Matt Ryan crashed, somehow Baker Mayfield was his best in Cleveland. Desaun Watson, as much as we can celebrate it, shit the bed last season. Russell Wilson of course too.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendulous View Post
    I have zero expectations of veteran starting quarterbacks changing teams anymore. Matt Ryan crashed, somehow Baker Mayfield was his best in Cleveland. Desaun Watson, as much as we can celebrate it, shit the bed last season. Russell Wilson of course too.
    Brady, Stafford, Tannehill, those guys all did fine. Ryan was barely worse than the previous few seasons, which weren't good.

    Some Saints fans have been talking about the fact that Carr's birthday is 3-28, or 28-3 for the Euros.
    /s

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Good fucking lord, Geno Smith from NFL failure to a 100+ million deal after 1 good year? QB money is out of control.

    Assuming his injury heals well enough imagine having Brock Purdy on 7th round money while Carr and Geno are making 100+ mil. The NFL has officially lost their damn mind with these deals. I understand it's the current market value thanks to idiotic moves by teams like the Broncos but it still seems like such a waste of money for merely above average QB play. The bengals cap will be beyond fucked when they resign Burrow.
    When you have guys like Mahomes, Wilson, Rodgers signing those mega deals, then yeah these average or slightly above average QBs are gonna go for a good chunk. When the cap goes up, guys are gonna demand more. Guys that signed contracts 2-3 years ago are gonna demand extensions to keep pace with the growing cap. Purdy is gonna demand an extension or trade as soon as their 3rd year is over. Realistically he could be recovering his whole 2nd year and part of 3rd. Gonna be an interesting situation.

  20. #80
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    Aaron Rodgers apparently allowed to talk with the Jets.

    Not a situation I enjoy, but if Rodgers can fuck over the Jets for a year or 2 and ruin their cap right as all their important guys are on cheaper rookie deals, that might not be too bad.

    Will certainly make extending the Patriots win streak against the Jets tougher though.


    But, does anyone think a Rodgers + Jets marriage would lead to a deep post season run, or a title? I can't fathom it would.

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