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  1. #161
    The Undying Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Goblin View Post
    So we're either drafting a QB, or we are in full tank mode.
    Sounds like they're targeting Jimmy G so maybe a third option, prolonged adequacy at best.
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  2. #162
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    Mike White really cashing in on looking better than other Jets QBs.
    /s

  3. #163
    Moderator Northern Goblin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    Sounds like they're targeting Jimmy G so maybe a third option, prolonged adequacy at best.
    He'll go 2-1, get injured in Game 4 and then we lose out with Chase Garbers.
    Ex-Mod. Technically retired, they just won't let me quit.

  4. #164
    Texans saw Denver's offense last year and wanted some of it with signing Mike Boone and Andrew Beck. Would be nice of them to trade for a receiver or 2 while they are at it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Goblin View Post
    He'll go 2-1, get injured in Game 4 and then we lose out with Chase Garbers.
    I thought you were making someone up, turns out Chase Garbers is a real QB.

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    Mike White really cashing in on looking better than other Jets QBs.
    Doubly hilarious because comparatively quietly today it's been reported that Rodgers is right back where he was before the Darkness Retreat. He doesn't know if he's retiring, coming back to the Packers, or wanting a trade anymore.

    So the Jets could very well be left with only Zach Wilson left for them this year.

    Meanwhile, Green Bay should pull a Favre on Rodgers and just tell him "You can't make a decision so we're moving forward with Jordan Love."
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  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    Meanwhile, Green Bay should pull a Favre on Rodgers and just tell him "You can't make a decision so we're moving forward with Jordan Love."
    Sure, and they'd release Rodgers to make that happen? Obv not. So Rodgers has them by the balls for 40M on their cap. Packers need to make a move just as much as the Jets do. It's only Rodgers that doesn't have to. He is the only one to know for sure that if he wants to play, SOME team is going to let him, at whatever he makes right now.

    This is a mess, but Rodgers is the one in control of it. The only one that might have influence is the Jets, but they are scared as fuck that Rodgers will turn them down and leave them with just Zach Wilson.

  7. #167
    The Undying Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    Sure, and they'd release Rodgers to make that happen? Obv not. So Rodgers has them by the balls for 40M on their cap. Packers need to make a move just as much as the Jets do. It's only Rodgers that doesn't have to. He is the only one to know for sure that if he wants to play, SOME team is going to let him, at whatever he makes right now.

    This is a mess, but Rodgers is the one in control of it. The only one that might have influence is the Jets, but they are scared as fuck that Rodgers will turn them down and leave them with just Zach Wilson.
    Nah there's no chance they release him, eat the money, and watch him go where he wants to (It probably rhymes with Bampa Tay).

    Honestly they should just pay him to be a backup this year then jettison him next year if he can't make up his mind. It beats trading Love and letting Rodgers keep holding them hostage year after year.
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  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    jettison him next year if he can't make up his mind. It beats trading Rodgers Love and letting Favre Rodgers keep holding them hostage year after year.
    fixed that lol

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by cordrann View Post
    Considering the success rates with QBs in general I think it makes sense to gamble when you have someone that appears to be not just a generational athlete at the position, but would also simultaneously be one of the biggest people at the position. He's both faster than Justin Fields and heavier than Josh Allen.
    The success rates of QBs are so bad for this very reason. You don't need a Mahomes to win the super bowl, it sure helps but you can win super bowls with merely competent QB play ala Eli Manning or Nick Foles. The NFL is so obsessed with finding super star QBs, which is why they end up failing with these picks to begin with. Most of the NFL needs to worry about first having a QB that won't single handedly lose them games before they worry about having a freak at the position. 49ers last year had to play 3 different QBs not counting Josh Johnson in the eagles game, and guess which one looked worst? Oh yea, the athletic freak they sold the farm to pick. Meanwhile they won a ton of games with Jimmy G and later Brock Purdy. Trey Lance lost to the bears, yes the 49ers lost to the fucking bears because Lance was horrible in that game. That's what chasing some raw superstar prospect gets you.
    Last edited by Tech614; 2023-03-13 at 09:03 PM.

  10. #170
    Speaking of the 49ers and bad QBs, they are next up on the Darnold train. That one makes as little sense as Stidham.

  11. #171
    Someone has to throw the ball in OTAs while Purdy and Lance are both still healing I guess. Thought the 49ers would go after a more experienced vet(Dalton or Matt Ryan if he gets released) though. Actually if Ryan is released I still could see them going after him.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    The success rates of QBs are so bad for this very reason. You don't need a Mahomes to win the super bowl, it sure helps but you can win super bowls with merely competent QB play ala Eli Manning or Nick Foles. The NFL is so obsessed with finding super star QBs, which is why they end up failing with these picks to begin with. Most of the NFL needs to worry about first having a QB that won't single handedly lose them games before they worry about having a freak at the position. 49ers last year had to play 3 different QBs not counting Josh Johnson in the eagles game, and guess which one looked worst? Oh yea, the athletic freak they sold the farm to pick. Meanwhile they won a ton of games with Jimmy G and later Brock Purdy. Trey Lance lost to the bears, yes the 49ers lost to the fucking bears because Lance was horrible in that game. That's what chasing some raw superstar prospect gets you.
    Well they do it because there's so many moving parts to a football team, and this one position, out of 22, holds disproportionate amount of effect on the success of the team. You can skate by with outright bad players at other positions. The first Chiefs SB they won with Mahomes, their defense was outright awful, iirc. A good QB also covers up bad coaching decisions and game management, which is rife in the sport, because of all said moving parts.

    Wins-Above-Replacement shows how meaningful good QB play is. Your argument is exactly correct for a once way overvalued position: RB. Once people looked at the stats, they realized good RB play isn't necessary to winning, and RBs have fallen heavily in people's priorities. Meanwhile, the analytics continue to show what we've always known: A good QB can win you games you have no right to win.

    Plus, the football season is so short that even stealing 1-2 games a year is a huge deal.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    Well they do it because there's so many moving parts to a football team, and this one position, out of 22, holds disproportionate amount of effect on the success of the team. You can skate by with outright bad players at other positions. The first Chiefs SB they won with Mahomes, their defense was outright awful, iirc. A good QB also covers up bad coaching decisions and game management, which is rife in the sport, because of all said moving parts.

    Wins-Above-Replacement shows how meaningful good QB play is. Your argument is exactly correct for a once way overvalued position: RB. Once people looked at the stats, they realized good RB play isn't necessary to winning, and RBs have fallen heavily in people's priorities. Meanwhile, the analytics continue to show what we've always known: A good QB can win you games you have no right to win.

    Plus, the football season is so short that even stealing 1-2 games a year is a huge deal.
    You should absolutely try on a prospect like say Stroud that has elite accuracy and ball placement along with decent pocket awareness and scrambling ability if you need the QB and are given a chance. But drafting QBs that have basically proven little to nothing in college outside of being a raw prospect has gotten exactly 1 team closer to the promise land in the last decade. Worked out for the Bills, failed for everyone else.

    This is not a knock on teams "taking chances" on drafting more polished prospects like Burrow or even Baker Mayfield if we want to talk about one that didn't pan out so well. At least they are proven capable of throwing the ball, which is what you have to do to win NFL games. Let's not forget someone like Trubisky was drafted over Mahomes even though Mahomes had the better college production and did it 2 years back to back, not a 1 season wonder and combine warrior. NFL GMs do dumb shit like this all the time which is why they end up with terrible QB picks often who aren't even serviceable players.
    Last edited by Tech614; 2023-03-13 at 11:10 PM.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    What's crazy is that Love's rookie contract is in its last year except for the franchise tag, which is 20 million. So they need him to play really well right away or it's not really worth even bothering to play him (better off trying to find the next guy in the draft because they'd have more control).

    The Packers' Love pick was an obvious disaster. Thinking that you can groom a guy to take over in a few years is 1980s level thinking. Now they are stuck with potentially a huge dead money cap hit for Rodgers that covers all of the years they control Love. What a frickin disaster.
    5th year option, not franchise tag but yes it's $20 mil. They could still franchise tag him after that but that would be WAY WAY more expensive than the 5th year option lol(its 32 mil this year so by 2025 it might very well be 38+ mil). That's still a bargain(the 20 mil) for a starting NFL QB if they believe in him. The real issue is them paying Rodgers last year in the first place, not picking Love when they did. Last year they should of already decided if Love was their guy or not and moved on from Rodgers if he was, it shouldn't have come to this.
    Last edited by Tech614; 2023-03-13 at 11:46 PM.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    The better comparison is Hurts, but younger and with lesser talent around him.
    Jalen Hurts was not a 1st round gamble. He was a late round 2 pick, which is where a raw untapped talent QB that is a complete gamble should be drafted.

  16. #176
    Ya'll ignoring my Falcons. I think we might have something cookin' down in the ATL.

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Logwyn View Post
    Ya'll ignoring my Falcons. I think we might have something cookin' down in the ATL.
    Yeah I saw they resigned their punter. Oh and they also want to become the Saints on defense after taking 2 Saints players.

    Speaking of the Saints they've lost 3 defensive players I believe already and they actually convinced Winston to take a pay cut to be the backup. Kind of surprised there. I figured he'd want out after not getting a chance to come back from injury because the team stayed with Dalton.

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    The success rates of QBs are so bad for this very reason. You don't need a Mahomes to win the super bowl, it sure helps but you can win super bowls with merely competent QB play ala Eli Manning or Nick Foles. The NFL is so obsessed with finding super star QBs, which is why they end up failing with these picks to begin with. Most of the NFL needs to worry about first having a QB that won't single handedly lose them games before they worry about having a freak at the position. 49ers last year had to play 3 different QBs not counting Josh Johnson in the eagles game, and guess which one looked worst? Oh yea, the athletic freak they sold the farm to pick. Meanwhile they won a ton of games with Jimmy G and later Brock Purdy. Trey Lance lost to the bears, yes the 49ers lost to the fucking bears because Lance was horrible in that game. That's what chasing some raw superstar prospect gets you.
    Those examples are the exception to roster building, not the rule. The last 10 Super Bowl winners: Mahomes, Stafford, Brady, Mahomes, Brady, Foles, Brady, Peyton Manning, Brady, and Wilson. You're also underestimating just how much of an outlier Richardson is. He is both bigger and significantly faster than Lance, and most likely you aren't going to have to get to 3 to draft him. Getting the polished passer out of college from that same draft as Lance (Mac Jones) looks like it is most likely to result in long-term mediocrity, while the "arm-talent" guy (Zach Wilson) looks like a total bust, and the generational next big thing(Lawrence) looks like he might be ok but we aren't really sure yet. There is no such thing as a sure thing when you are drafting a quarterback.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by cordrann View Post
    Those examples are the exception to roster building, not the rule. The last 10 Super Bowl winners: Mahomes, Stafford, Brady, Mahomes, Brady, Foles, Brady, Peyton Manning, Brady, and Wilson. You're also underestimating just how much of an outlier Richardson is. He is both bigger and significantly faster than Lance, and most likely you aren't going to have to get to 3 to draft him. Getting the polished passer out of college from that same draft as Lance (Mac Jones) looks like it is most likely to result in long-term mediocrity, while the "arm-talent" guy (Zach Wilson) looks like a total bust, and the generational next big thing(Lawrence) looks like he might be ok but we aren't really sure yet. There is no such thing as a sure thing when you are drafting a quarterback.
    Brady- not athletic freak won most of them, also drafted extremely late
    Stafford- Big arm but also polished prospect coming out of Georgia
    Mahomes- Threw for 10,000 yards and 100 TDs in college. The definition of a polished prospect.
    Manning- I shouldn't have to talk about how polished this dude was coming out of college
    Wilson- Drafted in the 3rd round cause he was short even though he also was a polished college prospect that played well at 2 different universities and systems

    How are any of these dudes being compared to 54% completion Richardson that had a college career of barely 3000 yards passing. For all the hype of his athleticism his rushing stats also aren't that great, he couldn't even sniff Lamar Jackson's jock strap there. This dude is gonna be one of the all time busts. The dudes you listed all had seasons better than Richardson's career stats with the exception of Brady who both played in a run heavy offense and had to split time with Drew Henson for a large part of his career.

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    Well when a player works out after getting drafted late, subsequent players who share some similarities will get drafted more highly - that’s how the draft works.

    We have a lot of evidence that guys who aren’t gifted passers initially can still be successful in the modern nfl if they can run - Lamar Jackson, Hurts, he’ll even Daniel Jones. It makes sense that teams would be interested in a big guy who can run.
    Lamar Jackson wasn't the most polished college passer coming out but he was MILES better than Richardson. Jalen Hurts never had a season under 60% completions and had 2 seasons at/above 70%. Daniel Jones had 3 years of solid but not great passing and his running was not a big part of his game at all.

    These are non existent comparisons to Richardson. Richardson isn't even close to their career completion %s, yards or total TD production. Not even if you compare single 3rd seasons instead of career stats is he close to any of the 3.

    And again if a team wanted to take a chance on a specimen like Richardson in the 2nd or 3rd that's perfectly normal and fine. Gamble worth taking at that point. This dude is absolutely not a 1st round NFL QB and the team that drafts him there is taking a sucker bet instead of waiting on better odds.

    But please save me from some bullshit comparison to Lamar Jackson who was both a better passer and runner than Richardson by an absurd amount coming out. Richardson would have to play 3 seasons just to match 1 of Jackson's in rushing stats all while Jackson was also throwing for 1,000 more yards in a season than him.
    Last edited by Tech614; 2023-03-14 at 08:59 AM.

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