Are Evokers getting a new spec?

[Teriz]

Again, irrelevant. The point is that this being a "hint" is nothing but wishful thinking from people.

That turned out to be correct.

Irrelevant. Again, lightning can set things ablaze. Lightning heats things up, which is why things get scorched or emit smoke after being hit by lightning.

Not in WoW.

Link it.

Post #616.

[kenn9530]

Blizzard disagrees;

Blizzard doesnt disagree though, they made a class that uses all 5 dragonflights powers right now, the evoker uses the powers from all, they have not lost the ability to use the powers they were born with.

Black is not under represented it has 4 abilities, a class that uses all 5 dragonflights in one can only have so many abilities before it becomes stupid skill bloat, so your reality is very different to actual reality, if blizz want to add more spells thats fine but its unlikely to happen due to the class itself being limited to what skills its already using without making the class have way too many skills.

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BTW, we now have a possible datamined Evoker spell that is Shadow-based which diminishes the chance that this is just cosmetics.

You do know they have been adding weapons and such with thier own spells right, like the evoker staff and lots of weapons in the new raid have thier own procs, so no its not a new spell for evokers, it could be on an evoker only weapon so its just a temp spell just like the evoker staff.

[Triceron]

People figured that the Dragon Pack was a hint when it happened.

And if I recall correctly, you also implied it was gonna be Tinkers/Undermine related because that dragon pack had a steam dragon in it, which somehow tied in with the mechanical bronze drake or something

Fans speculate anything and everything, doesn't really mean Blizzard intends it to happen. They just released a bunch of pets and mounts and people jumped to conclusions about whatever expansion they see fit, just like the Tinker stuff that never ended up happening.

[Ielenia]

That turned out to be correct.

No. No, it wasn't correct. "Being right for the wrong reasons" is still the same as being wrong. Because your reasoning to reach that conclusion wasn't sound.

Example: say you believe the accused killed the victim, and the reason they did it is because they're wearing pink pants. The police investigation then concludes that, indeed, the accused killed the victim. That doesn't validate the reasoning given by you, that they did so because they're wearing pink pants.

Post #616.

That spell does nothing you claim it does. For example, the Static-Charged Scale has a very similar effect, yet it doesn't do anything like "giving the evokers a lightning-based spec" or anything.

[Polybius]

So? By that logic, it shouldn't be a "hint" because it doesn't contain actual dragons.


Again: those "hints" are nothing but perception based. Hindsight. Correlation. Bias.


That wasn't my argument. I said that lightning can set things aflame by logic.

It's called speculation. Nothing wrong with it, people look for patterns or zeitgeists, and the well trained eyes just happen to be better at making predictions. You can discredit intuition all you like but it's not going to stop people from sharing ideas and making convincing arguments. Informed guesses have a better accuracy rate than unsophisticated ones.

It's been proven the developers work on assets and release them ahead of the next story. Same goes for promo material outside the game, like the Dragon-themed books that were going to have a re-release prior to Dragonflight's announcement.

[Gurbz]

It's called speculation. Nothing wrong with it, people look for patterns or zeitgeists, and the well trained eyes just happen to be better at making predictions. You can discredit intuition all you like but it's not going to stop people from sharing ideas and making convincing arguments. Informed guesses have a better accuracy rate than unsophisticated ones.

It's been proven the developers work on assets and release them ahead of the next story. Same goes for promo material outside the game, like the Dragon-themed books that were going to have a re-release prior to Dragonflight's announcement.

Speculation is fine, as long as it is presented as such and acknowledged that it could all be nothing. Exploring what could be happening in the future is fun.

That's not happening here. The end result is being presented as a foregone conclusion, and any inference that it might all mean nothing is dismissed or in many cases nearly insulted. Any evidence that goes against the theory is either ignored or hand-waved away, often using extremely circular logic. Presenting what is at best a vaguely plausible theory as absolute fact of what is going to happen is what most of the complainers have a problem with, not the speculation itself.

[Makorus]

The fact that the most prolific dataminer essentially said the third spec isn't happening and has reasons to believe it isn't is proof enough for me.

I was on board until that, but I have a feeling it's just a case of Green Fire but for Evokers.

Evokers are gonna kill Sarkareth, and get Void/Earth visuals for some of their spells.

Likewise, Shadowflame Aesthetic Reskin was hinted at for Warlocks, so there's reason to believe it's that.

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under evoker ClassSet, spell 408127

If you check the WoWhead page for that spell you will find that it's literally just the buff from the Rare Neltharion trinket https://www.wowhead.com/ptr/spell=40...otic-arrogance

That version of the Trinket is for Warriors, Mages, Evokers, DHs and Paladins.



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It's called speculation. Nothing wrong with it, people look for patterns or zeitgeists, and the well trained eyes just happen to be better at making predictions. You can discredit intuition all you like but it's not going to stop people from sharing ideas and making convincing arguments. Informed guesses have a better accuracy rate than unsophisticated ones.

It's been proven the developers work on assets and release them ahead of the next story. Same goes for promo material outside the game, like the Dragon-themed books that were going to have a re-release prior to Dragonflight's announcement.

Or the big pet bundle sale they had a few months ago, because 10.1 is gonna feature an overhaul to the Pet Battle System....

oh wait. It's hindsight bias, nothing more.

[Stickiler]

The fact that the most prolific dataminer essentially said the third spec isn't happening and has reasons to believe it isn't is proof enough for me.

I was on board until that, but I have a feeling it's just a case of Green Fire but for Evokers.

Evokers are gonna kill Sarkareth, and get Void/Earth visuals for some of their spells.

Likewise, Shadowflame Aesthetic Reskin was hinted at for Warlocks, so there's reason to believe it's that.

That's the biggest mark against this Third Spec-ulation IMO, I'm guessing that the datamining is tainted in some way(Maybe the data is in a specific place that only trashed data goes? I don't know much about the datamining). She said that nobody listens when she talks about datamining, so she's not bothering to go in to detail this time, but
my guess is that she's tired of people taking datamining as 100% guaranteed going-to-be-in-the-game stuff, and so she just datamines and lets people decide what they want.

[Makorus]

That's the biggest mark against this Third Spec-ulation IMO, I'm guessing that the datamining is tainted in some way(Maybe the data is in a specific place that only trashed data goes? I don't know much about the datamining). She said that nobody listens when she talks about datamining, so she's not bothering to go in to detail this time, but
my guess is that she's tired of people taking datamining as 100% guaranteed going-to-be-in-the-game stuff, and so she just datamines and lets people decide what they want.

I mean, she has been very adamant about being less vocal and open with datamining because the amount of harassement she gets from weirdos. But I trust her, and I doubt she would say that it's not happening unless she had a real reason to think that.

[Teriz]

Blizzard doesnt disagree though...

Again, they created lore to explain the lack of black dragon abilities in the class. That completely contradicts your argument here.

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No. No, it wasn't correct. "Being right for the wrong reasons" is still the same as being wrong. Because your reasoning to reach that conclusion wasn't sound.

So your argument is that Blizzard never releases hints of future content for players to find?

That spell does nothing you claim it does. For example, the Static-Charged Scale has a very similar effect, yet it doesn't do anything like "giving the evokers a lightning-based spec" or anything.

Well it appears that Evokers are getting Void customization as a glyph. So the idea of an Earth/Void spec is pretty much dead. That still leaves the results of the Adamanthia quest chain that started this discussion.

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Speculation is fine, as long as it is presented as such and acknowledged that it could all be nothing. Exploring what could be happening in the future is fun.

That's not happening here. The end result is being presented as a foregone conclusion, and any inference that it might all mean nothing is dismissed or in many cases nearly insulted. Any evidence that goes against the theory is either ignored or hand-waved away, often using extremely circular logic. Presenting what is at best a vaguely plausible theory as absolute fact of what is going to happen is what most of the complainers have a problem with, not the speculation itself.

The argument that it is nothing is certainly dismissed, because those posters aren't offering sound arguments against the idea. However people in this thread multiple times have stated that it could be a green fire style quest. No one is acting like this is a forgone conclusion, most here are simply pointing out that there is a lot of evidence showing the possibility of a new Evoker spec.

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The fact that the most prolific dataminer essentially said the third spec isn't happening and has reasons to believe it isn't is proof enough for me.

I was on board until that, but I have a feeling it's just a case of Green Fire but for Evokers.

Evokers are gonna kill Sarkareth, and get Void/Earth visuals for some of their spells.

Likewise, Shadowflame Aesthetic Reskin was hinted at for Warlocks, so there's reason to believe it's that.

The problem is that she doesn't work for Blizzard, so what she's basing that on is only the files she has privy to relating to 10.1. I've stated several times that if there's a new spec, it probably won't be available until after 10.1, and it maybe won't happen until 11.0.

Also Sakareth isn't part of that "New Specialization Remembered" quest that started all of this. That quest is a scenario where we find Adamanthia and presumably Adamanthia restores the black dragon essence to Evokers. In addition, there is evidence that Adamanthia is a wise and kind black dragon who views the Dracthyr as her children, and the Dracthyr in turn view her as a motherly figure.

Let me repeat, since some here have some issue with speculation; I'm not saying that a new spec is definitely going to happen. What I'm saying is that if Blizzard is setting up the Black dragonflight to be restored and Dracthyr Evokers to get their black dragon essence back, it's more than likely going to be more than just a cosmetic glyph. As you said, we're getting that sort of thing from Aberrus (which unfortunately sort of kills the notion of a black dragon/void spec), we have no idea what the end result of this restoration is going to be.

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If you check the WoWhead page for that spell you will find that it's literally just the buff from the Rare Neltharion trinket https://www.wowhead.com/ptr/spell=40...otic-arrogance

That version of the Trinket is for Warriors, Mages, Evokers, DHs and Paladins.

Disappointing, but good catch. I think that and the Void Blossom glyph puts to bed the notion of an Earth/Void spec.

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And if I recall correctly, you also implied it was gonna be Tinkers/Undermine related because that dragon pack had a steam dragon in it, which somehow tied in with the mechanical bronze drake or something

And the Dragon Pack also prompted me to create a dragon class where the race and class are one in the same, and the dragons utilize the aspects and visage forms.

[Hyrja]

Who cares, both their visage and "dragon" form are way to soy and made by and for ppl from SoCal.
Wish they never added them at all.

[Ielenia]

So your argument is that Blizzard never releases hints of future content for players to find?

Wow, can you get any more dishonest with that misrepresentation?! That was not my argument at all. Especially when your strawman flies in the face of what I've previously said.

[quote]Well it appears that Evokers are getting Void customization as a glyph.[/quoite]
"It appears" nothing. Fan speculation on random disjointed datamining items is nothing.

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It's called speculation. Nothing wrong with it, people look for patterns or zeitgeists, and the well trained eyes just happen to be better at making predictions. You can discredit intuition all you like but it's not going to stop people from sharing ideas and making convincing arguments. Informed guesses have a better accuracy rate than unsophisticated ones.

The only thing I'm discrediting are those people who claim as a fact that the Dragon Pack was an intentional hint from Blizzard about the theme of the next expansion. It was never a hint, because then you'd have to consider the Cat Pack as also a hint... but they don't. They completely ignore its existence. It's called "cherry picking" and "being right for the wrong reasons".

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If you check the WoWhead page for that spell you will find that it's literally just the buff from the Rare Neltharion trinket https://www.wowhead.com/ptr/spell=40...otic-arrogance

Huh. I was right in my guess, then. It does work like the Static-Charged Scale trinket.

[Teriz]

Wow, can you get any more dishonest with that misrepresentation?! That was not my argument at all. Especially when your strawman flies in the face of what I've previously said.

So then what’s your point? That you know for certain that the Dragon Pack was not a hint for dragon isles despite the fact that it very well could have been since Blizzard drops hints of future content regularly?

"It appears" nothing. Fan speculation on random disjointed datamining items is nothing.

It’s Void Blossom assigned to Evokers with a “test fx” marker.

https://www.wowhead.com/ptr/spell=40...-test-fx-max-a

It also means that Evokers will be getting cosmetic options from Aberrus. However that leaves open what they’ll be getting from the specialization quest.

[Ielenia]

So then what’s your point? That you know for certain that the Dragon Pack was not a hint for dragon isles despite the fact that it very well could have been since Blizzard drops hints of future content regularly?

If you have to ask "what's my point" after I had it repeated more than once, shows me you're not really interested in understanding what people are writing. I know for certain that the Dragon Pack was not a hint because calling it a 'hint' is a clear case of cherry-picking since, prior to Dragonflight, we also had a Cat Pack, but that one is strangely ignored, as if it never existed in the first place.

Also, like you said: there were no actual dragons in the "dragon pack" at all.

It’s Void Blossom assigned to Evokers with a “test fx” marker.

https://www.wowhead.com/ptr/spell=40...-test-fx-max-a

It also means that Evokers will be getting cosmetic options from Aberrus. However that leaves open what they’ll be getting from the specialization quest.

It could also just mean that this is the version of the spell that Sarkareth might be casting when we fight him during the new raid.

[kenn9530]

Again, they created lore to explain the lack of black dragon abilities in the class. That completely contradicts your argument here.

What they are doing has nothing to do with your opinion on lack of black dragon powers, its irrelevant to the class itself which has a range powers from all 5 dragonflights, if they do get more abilties its going to happen for a new expansion not the current one.

Simple facts are evoker has more than enough of each of the dragonflights powers, its up to blizz if they want to add more but it would change how the class actually plays so its not going to happen anytime soon.

[Teriz]

If you have to ask "what's my point" after I had it repeated more than once, shows me you're not really interested in understanding what people are writing. I know for certain that the Dragon Pack was not a hint because calling it a 'hint' is a clear case of cherry-picking since, prior to Dragonflight, we also had a Cat Pack, but that one is strangely ignored, as if it never existed in the first place.

Yet that is ENTIRELY your opinion. You don’t know for certain if Blizzard actually did drop the pack as a clue for Dragonflight.

It could also just mean that this is the version of the spell that Sarkareth might be casting when we fight him during the new raid.

It’s not. That is the Evoker spell. The Sakareth version is different.

Also found this interesting;

Customizations

There are no significant character customizations coming in Patch 10.1.

Demon Hunters getting a glyph to throw their own weapon with Throw Glaive.

Adding glyphs that modify spell visuals is tough, as if visuals change too much it could become unrecognizable for other people, especially in PvP.

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What they are doing has nothing to do with your opinion on lack of black dragon powers, its irrelevant to the class itself which has a range powers from all 5 dragonflights, if they do get more abilties its going to happen for a new expansion not the current one.

How exactly is lore stating that Dracthyr are drained of their black dragon essence irrelevant to the Dracthyr Evoker class? You do know that this lore is so relevant to the class that they created an Evoker only quest chain for it, right?

Simple facts are evoker has more than enough of each of the dragonflights powers, its up to blizz if they want to add more but it would change how the class actually plays so its not going to happen anytime soon.

If Evokers have more than enough black dragon abilities, why is their lore stating that they’re currently drained of Black dragon essence and are arguably “crippled”? Again, this is Blizzard saying this, and it contradicts your opinion.

[Ielenia]

Yet that is ENTIRELY your opinion.

No, it is a fact that people completely ignored the Cat Pack. It is also a fact that you acknowledged that there were no actual dragons in the Dragon Pack.

You don’t know for certain if Blizzard actually did drop the pack as a clue for Dragonflight.

I literally explained the facts. We have a rather sizeable list of 'packs' that led to nowhere, that were "hints" of nothing, but this one, this specific one is actually a hint... because coincidentally it happened to match the theme of the next expansion. In name only, because, again, you acknowledged that there were no actual dragons in that pack.

It’s not. That is the Evoker spell. The Sakareth version is different.

Then care to link Sarkareth's version?

Also found this interesting;

What's interesting in that quote of yours are the parts that say "no significant character customization coming" and a complete lack of mentions of evokers when talking about glyphs.

[Teriz]

No, it is a fact that people completely ignored the Cat Pack. It is also a fact that you acknowledged that there were no actual dragons in the Dragon Pack.

People ignored the cat pack because nothing cat-based leads directly to a possible expansion, whereas multiple major WoW characters are dragons. Also it seemed more like Blizzard was trying to use the cat pack to make the dragon pack look less obvious.

I literally explained the facts. We have a rather sizeable list of 'packs' that led to nowhere, that were "hints" of nothing, but this one, this specific one is actually a hint... because coincidentally it happened to match the theme of the next expansion. In name only, because, again, you acknowledged that there were no actual dragons in that pack.

The argument was never about “all packs”, it was about this one that came after a line of dragon-based hints leading back to BFA and throughout Shadowlands.

Then care to link Sarkareth's version?

It’s on the Aberrus PTR in the 10.1 patch notes.

What's interesting in that quote of yours are the parts that say "no significant character customization coming" and a complete lack of mentions of evokers when talking about glyphs.

Which makes sense because we don’t know Sakareth’s drops yet. However, Ion did say that Evokers will be interested in what Sakareth has to offer the class at the end of the raid.

[Makorus]

The Dragon Pack hinting at a dragon based expansion because there are Dragons in the game is the definition of hindsight bias.

[Teriz]

The Dragon Pack hinting at a dragon based expansion because there are Dragons in the game is the definition of hindsight bias.

Again, that pack came after multiple other dragon hints dating back to BFA 8.3. Also it isn’t hindsight bias when people called it a hint for the dragon isles at the time of its release.