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  1. #661
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Moving right along, I added Ion's quote, and a few other developer quotes to the OP. I feel that Blizzard stating on multiple occasions that they're open to a third spec, and that there's even room for an Evoker 3rd spec is quite relevant to this thread.

    EDIT: Going over some of those developer comments, especially Morgan Day's a few weeks ago, I do wonder if Blizzard is truly opposed to a tank spec for Evokers. If that's the case, we're back to healer and DPS. This quote especially is quite interesting;

    This is a spellcaster class at its core. The class is initially only going to have two specializations, but if they do have a third, ranged dps and healer is where they’re focused.
    Given the structure of the new talent trees, would it be possible for Blizzard to create a dual-role spec that could do either healing and damage based on talent selection? That certainly would match a spec based on the black dragonflight and a prismatic spec.

  2. #662
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    Not opinions simple facts, it is not an opinion that all evokers currently make use of all 5 dragonflight powers its a simple fact, its a fact that blizzard have made the class the way they are and they have yet to announce a 3rd spec or even new abilities.

    If another spec was coming it would be announced already so its not coming now or next raid tier and very unlikely to come at all within the whole expansion, thats just reality.

    All im stating is simple facts, you dont have a clue about how the actual class plays so you dont know any facts yourself.
    Nah, that is twisting facts to fit an opinion.

    You're assuming Blizzard would not or could not create a spec in secret, and assume that if they had any plans for one they could only be transparent about it and not work on one in secret at all. None of the facts you present are mutually exclusive to transparency and openness.

    They can present the Evoker the way it is, and not announce a 3rd spec, while actively working on one behind closed doors. Nothing you said actually argues against this, it is merely your opinion that they aren't doing so or that they won't. You can't actually prove that they aren't working on anything behind the scenes, which is why you can only assume.

    The simple facts you presented says no one knows whether Blizzard is planning and actively working on a 3rd spec at this moment, that is all. Just because we don't know doesn't mean it isn't possible or isn't happening.



    It's like saying it's a fact gravity keeps people on the earth, and a fact that no matter how high we jump we can't escape earth's gravity. These are facts. Now, if you said Man could never reach space because no matter how far we jump we can't escape earth's gravity, that is not fact, that is an assumption that presupposes that jumping is the only way to escape Earth's gravity. It isn't, and there are other ways Man can reach space without jumping which you haven't taken into account.

    That you don't think they would insert a new spec mid-expansion or in a raid tier or whatever, is opinion. I'm not saying they would do so either, just making a point that there is nothing factual about this part of your argument; it is purely opinion. What you consider unlikely is not fact, it is opinion.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2023-03-27 at 04:02 AM.

  3. #663
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    Not opinions simple facts, it is not an opinion that all evokers currently make use of all 5 dragonflight powers its a simple fact, its a fact that blizzard have made the class the way they are and they have yet to announce a 3rd spec or even new abilities.

    If another spec was coming it would be announced already so its not coming now or next raid tier and very unlikely to come at all within the whole expansion, thats just reality.

    All im stating is simple facts, you dont have a clue about how the actual class plays so you dont know any facts yourself.
    I highly doubt we’re getting a third spec, but it’s completely disingenuous to suggest that the Black flight is represented in the same way as the other flights. Even when they were announced, they specifically mentioned which flights received focus. Black was not among them. As was factually evident when we saw for ourselves.

  4. #664
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by draugril View Post
    I highly doubt we’re getting a third spec, but it’s completely disingenuous to suggest that the Black flight is represented in the same way as the other flights. Even when they were announced, they specifically mentioned which flights received focus. Black was not among them. As was factually evident when we saw for ourselves.
    With that said, I seriously doubt they designed this class without the intent to create a spec that revolves around black magic.

  5. #665
    Quote Originally Posted by draugril View Post
    I highly doubt we’re getting a third spec, but it’s completely disingenuous to suggest that the Black flight is represented in the same way as the other flights. Even when they were announced, they specifically mentioned which flights received focus. Black was not among them. As was factually evident when we saw for ourselves.
    Its represented more than enough, it doesnt have to be in a rotation to be represented and the spec was never meant to be constantly weaving in all 5 powers, the evoker uses all 5 powers not using them all as much as each other.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  6. #666
    Quote Originally Posted by SuperKarateDeathCar View Post
    I feel like if a new spec was coming it would be up for testing already. Unless for some weird reason they think it needs 0 outside testing, which I very much doubt.
    It is definitely not coming in 10.1, for that exact reason. It is possible that it could be added in 10.1.5 or 10.1.7. Or even later, though the more patches go by the less sense it would make from a narrative perspective. Again, assuming it gets added at all. I still very much believe that this is not what is happening, and the various things that are being used as "evidence" are either unrelated or left over artifacts from ideas that they were testing internally but ultimately abandoned. I'd need to see some pretty significant changes in future PTR builds to change my mind on that.
    I found I enjoyed the game significantly more when I stopped paying attention to all the people on the forums telling me how much I am supposed to hate it
    All this complaining is simply further proof that Blizzard could send each and every player a real-life wish-granting flying unicorn carrying a solid gold plate of chocolate chip cookies wrapped in hundred dollar bills, and someone would whine that Blizzard sucks for not letting them choose oatmeal raisin.

  7. #667
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurbz View Post
    It is definitely not coming in 10.1, for that exact reason. It is possible that it could be added in 10.1.5 or 10.1.7. Or even later, though the more patches go by the less sense it would make from a narrative perspective. Again, assuming it gets added at all. I still very much believe that this is not what is happening, and the various things that are being used as "evidence" are either unrelated or left over artifacts from ideas that they were testing internally but ultimately abandoned. I'd need to see some pretty significant changes in future PTR builds to change my mind on that.
    I believe the fundamental issue is that Evoker needs a black dragon spec to feel complete. Even Blizzard has admitted that there’s room for a third spec in the future, and has been very open to the idea of a third spec ever since the class’ announcement (though they seem vehemently against adding a tank spec). They have never stated that about any other class, even Demon Hunters.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperKarateDeathCar View Post
    I feel like if a new spec was coming it would be up for testing already. Unless for some weird reason they think it needs 0 outside testing, which I very much doubt.
    I agree. I believe that 10.1 will merely be seeding the new spec for release some point down the line. If released this expansion, I believe they’ll release it between raids to help with balance testing. That said, it’s highly likely we won’t be able to play the new spec until 11.0.

  8. #668
    I wonder why so many people think that Weryns are solely filled with Evokers...
    They are created in the first place to sort Dracthyr.
    And not every Dracthyr is an Evoker.

    Like those halberd wearing Dracthyr could be Warriors or other classes of Dracthyr.

    Evidence currently suggests that a new spec is coming.
    Like empowered spells in there data, currently only as placeholder.
    And other stuff.

    We'll see if Blizzard will do what they never did before. Releasing a completely new spec mid expansion.

    I honestly don't expect it.

  9. #669
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddiero View Post
    I wonder why so many people think that Weryns are solely filled with Evokers...
    They are created in the first place to sort Dracthyr.
    And not every Dracthyr is an Evoker.

    Like those halberd wearing Dracthyr could be Warriors or other classes of Dracthyr.
    The main reason is because there are 5 weryns, and they all align with the Evoker class.

    Healing Wing- Preservation Evoker
    Ebon Scales: Devastation Evoker
    Obsidian Warders: Alliance Evokers
    Dark Talons: Horde Evokers

    That leaves the Adamant Vigil that was wiped out by the primals. It stands to reason that they would represent the lost specialization of the Evoker.

    In other news, Taleisin is leaning towards this being a new spec;


  10. #670
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    The main reason is because there are 5 weryns, and they all align with the Evoker class.

    Healing Wing- Preservation Evoker
    Ebon Scales: Devastation Evoker
    Obsidian Warders: Alliance Evokers
    Dark Talons: Horde Evokers

    That leaves the Adamant Vigil that was wiped out by the primals. It stands to reason that they would represent the lost specialization of the Evoker.

    In other news, Taleisin is leaning towards this being a new spec;

    I mean, he bases it off on the Datamining Pt2 post, which is incredibly, incredibly weak.

    Everything in that post except for one ability is clearly NPC abilities. The Empower Table argument was made completely pointless by the huge amount of files that got added to the table.

  11. #671
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    I mean, he bases it off on the Datamining Pt2 post, which is incredibly, incredibly weak.

    Everything in that post except for one ability is clearly NPC abilities. The Empower Table argument was made completely pointless by the huge amount of files that got added to the table.
    He even admitted that the datamining pt 2 was weak. His attitude is mainly borne out of the quest itself and Blizzard's recent moves during this development cycle.

  12. #672
    I think it's 99% certain that we're not getting third spec in 10.1 (the 1% being that blizzard does something dumb and releases it with minimal or no ptr testing, which I hope won't happen).

    If a third spec appears in Dragonflight I think the best opportunity is 10.1.7; 10.1 "finishes" the dracthyr story, and 10.0.7 in many ways feels a bit like an expansion prepatch. This implies, to me, that 10.1.7 is the time to release a new spec if it's going to happen mid-expansion.

    However, the datamind quest was afaik labeled 10.1, not 10.1.7, and that quest is the reason we think a third spec might happen. So for me, the possibility of a third spec is now so faint that I don't believe it's happening.

  13. #673
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paxen View Post
    I think it's 99% certain that we're not getting third spec in 10.1 (the 1% being that blizzard does something dumb and releases it with minimal or no ptr testing, which I hope won't happen).

    If a third spec appears in Dragonflight I think the best opportunity is 10.1.7; 10.1 "finishes" the dracthyr story, and 10.0.7 in many ways feels a bit like an expansion prepatch. This implies, to me, that 10.1.7 is the time to release a new spec if it's going to happen mid-expansion.

    However, the datamind quest was afaik labeled 10.1, not 10.1.7, and that quest is the reason we think a third spec might happen. So for me, the possibility of a third spec is now so faint that I don't believe it's happening.
    Yeah, definitely not happening in 10.1, but I have a feeling we'll be getting an announcement of this for 10.7.

  14. #674
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    He even admitted that the datamining pt 2 was weak. His attitude is mainly borne out of the quest itself and Blizzard's recent moves during this development cycle.
    Taliesin has always leaned towards speculation. He's more speculative than skeptic regarding any 'hints' towards new gameplay content. He's done videos on potential Tinker classes, or potential Dark Ranger class, or Class Skins, and everything in between.

  15. #675
    Some youtube streamers even predict it might be 4th specialization like support spec or smth. Either this or tank spec not happening - Blizzard are terribly afraid of experiments, with every patch and every addon they will add just more M+'s and raids and thats it to not to destabilize current model like its made of glass. Pleasant surprises? Not from Blizzard. For Draktyrs its likely just another recolor or more likely recolor of some spells.

  16. #676
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddiero View Post
    I wonder why so many people think that Weryns are solely filled with Evokers...
    They are created in the first place to sort Dracthyr.
    And not every Dracthyr is an Evoker.
    And this is a fact that those people just can't seem to comprehend. Not every dracthyr is an evoker. In fact few dracthyr are evokers, considering that the evokers are considered the "elite" of the bunch.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    The main reason is because there are 5 weryns, and they all align with the Evoker class.

    Healing Wing- Preservation Evoker
    Ebon Scales: Devastation Evoker
    Obsidian Warders: Alliance Evokers
    Dark Talons: Horde Evokers


    That leaves the Adamant Vigil that was wiped out by the primals. It stands to reason that they would represent the lost specialization of the Evoker.
    This just in: "Alliance" and "Horde" are now evoker specs. (/sarcasm)

    The weyrns are not comprised solely of evokers. They're comprised solely of dracthyr, in which only a few of them are actually evokers, as per the whole definition of the class:

    "Every dracthyr is an expert soldier. Whatever weyrn they belong to, they use their talents to defend dragonkind in service to the Earth-Warder. Yet even among such illustrious ranks, there are a select few who transcend the skills of their kin, who are able to master the specialties of all weyrns and shift between roles at will. These are the evokers, the best of the best, finest of the finest."

    Not to mention that very same paragraph makes it explicitly clear that the weyrns are not comprised solely of evokers.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  17. #677
    The Weyrns aren't Evokers. But the point of the Evokers is that they're the elites that have mastered all the Weyrns' specalties.

    Ergo, if there's a tanking weyrn, evokers would know how to tank.

  18. #678
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post

    Not to mention that very same paragraph makes it explicitly clear that the weyrns are not comprised solely of evokers.
    Now who's cherry picking it nowhere did teriz state that the weyrns only align to evokers, but the we see evokers that are aligned to those weyrns.

    it also clearly states that evokers are able to master the specialties of all weyrns.

    Hence if there is a tanking based weyrn, evokers can master the ability to tank.

  19. #679
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [Apok] View Post
    Now who's cherry picking it nowhere did teriz state that the weyrns only align to evokers, but the we see evokers that are aligned to those weyrns.
    I'm not cherry picking. We had this conversation in the past where Teriz stated as fact that weyrns were only made of evokers. Paraphrasing: "the Healing Wing weyrn dracthyr cast healing magic, therefore they're all evokers."

    it also clearly states that evokers are able to master the specialties of all weyrns.

    Hence if there is a tanking based weyrn, evokers can master the ability to tank.
    There isn't one. There are (or used to be) five weyrns. The one that comes the closest to the definition of what a tank could be are the Obsidian Wardens, which is the weyrn that aligned themselves with the Alliance.

    - - - Updated - - -

    EDIT: I don't need to paraphrase it anymore:
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    The Healing Wing Weryn are made up entirely of Evokers except for the Drakonoids who work with them.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  20. #680
    There are many other classes that would benefit from aditional specs. I honestly think a new spec for every class will happen at some point but it will be an Expansion feature not in a patch.
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