Willow cancelled after one season by disney +.

[Endus]

My personal problem with "woke" is when diversity is inserted for diversity's sake and not blended organically into the story. Just to tick the boxes.

There's nothing in Willow that wasn't included "organically" in the story, in this respect. If you can handle magic and monsters existing but the idea of two girls being romantically interested in each other is too much for you, the problem isn't with the media you're consuming.

[s_bushido]

I don't think it's also fair to think everyone who hated on the 2016 is a man child

Of course. Ghostbusters 2016 was not a good movie. The guys over at RedLetterMedia managed to explain why in great detail without blaming it on the gender of the cast. But I hadn't even cared to look up the box office results of either movie before that poster decided to compare their relative "success." (and apparently he didn't either)

[Altrec]

I dunno, I watched the reboot and didnt enjoy it but not because of the women. Just was boring and the bad guy had nothing memorable about them. AL was okay but also very one dimensional. I'd put them about equal because the 2016 one had a few parts of decent humor while AL was more serious.

Can't compare a scifi drama to a scifi comedy. Just isn't fair even if from the same source material. I don't think it's also fair to think everyone who hated on the 2016 is a man child but the poster you were responding to...well i can't defend them.

He was responding to me in that post. I'm confused what did I say that needs or doesn't need to be defended? I mean we are basically in agreement other than I didn't like the 2016 movie. I literally fall into the category you reference.

[Triceron]

Couldn't give a shit if Lexus had a commercial with black, yellow, brown, (insert color of skin of your preference). That's not woke. That's targetted marketing in advertisement.

My personal problem with "woke" is when diversity is inserted for diversity's sake and not blended organically into the story. Just to tick the boxes.

It doesn't ruin the movie/series or anything. Doesn't make me hate it. But i recognise it when i see it and it annoys me as a company/writer choice. They lose points in my book when that happens.

Just curious, would you happen to have examples of shows or movies with lesbian kisses that you felt fit in and wasn't woke? Just to get an idea of how you feel this would be different from a non-woke scene that was well integrated.

[Fabinas]

Just curious, would you happen to have examples of shows or movies with lesbian kisses that you felt fit in and wasn't woke? Just to get an idea of how you feel this would be different from a non-woke scene that was well integrated.

Lesbian Kiss in the end of RoS.

The kiss had nothing to do with the story, nor it was between important characters. The scene was hot just to show there are lesbians in SW universe. No shit, Sherlock. Probably there's also interspecies sex as well.

And to add insult to injury, was cut in China version for known reasons. This proves it was there to tick the box.

Obviously didn't need that scene to think RoS was shit. It was another "oh, they did that as well, bleh".

I would accept a lesbian kiss between Kylo and Rey, had Kylo been a lady in that movie. There was a reason for the characters kissing. Lil' corny, but justified. Culmination of a connection building though 3 movies.

[Zodiark]

I love all the cries of "woke!" from the usual arseholes.



lol


lol 2.0

Imagine having your opinions fed to you by shitty YouTubers.

Just need someone to post a Critical Drinker link now.

Edit: Oops, someone just did Wankers are nothing if not predictable.

Bro these guys are on point. I sometimes disagree with Critical Drinker and Nerd but not often. Look at the shitshow of Black Widow, Rings of Power, Willow, The Wheel of time. You just want to be contrary for the sake of being contrary. If you like being spoon fed woke trash and have virtue signaling garbage fed to you on a plate each time you try and watch a new show then your part of the problem.

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Don't worry, disney is eager to stop the systemic injustices except when they censor black people on posters for china, but you don't see those people complaining about it, hence fake activists of twitter and why the word was being perverted in mdoern days.

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Now that you mention, this shit rly looks like it was written by AI

this is the only thing that explain that random modern texas woman coming out of fucking nowhere.

Yeah totally right. There is no original creative thought process anymore. No RISKS. Because you better believe if a company lays out 250 mil they WANT the highest chance of a return on their investment and nowadays that's too much money to chance on idk a real human being writing good lore-respecting stories.

[s_bushido]

Bro these guys are on point. I sometimes disagree with Critical Drinker and Nerd but not often. Look at the shitshow of Black Widow, Rings of Power, Willow, The Wheel of time. You just want to be contrary for the sake of being contrary. If you like being spoon fed woke trash and have virtue signaling garbage fed to you on a plate each time you try and watch a new show then your part of the problem.

Please. The people who unironically say meaningless nonsense like "woke garbage" can't even demonstrate that there IS a problem to begin with. Beyond their petulant whining that they're forced to endure looking at characters that belong to the "wrong" demographic groups.

I am a bit curious to know what the problem with Black Widow was...beyond the obvious "the cast was primarily women." It was just a mediocre and forgettable comic book movie. Because I'm sure that's something that's never been made before and will never be made ever again once we rid the world of "woke garbage."

[shane brannigan]

quick tangent, what was the last animated movie Disney made? And I don't mean Pixar they stuff I mean like Hercules and the Aladdin.

[Calfredd]

quick tangent, what was the last animated movie Disney made? And I don't mean Pixar they stuff I mean like Hercules and the Aladdin.

So last movie that wasn't "Disney and Pixar" or last movie that was 2d animation? If you meant the first, Strange World released November 2022 but if you mean the latter then Winnie the Pooh in July 2011.

[Syegfryed]

There's nothing in Willow that wasn't included "organically" in the story, in this respect.

Nothing in that shit story was organically

They tried to do magic and monsters in a modern california era with modern gen z teens, doing modern genz teens things, totally forgetting the medieval context they were in

like the royal family retardly going to fighting the 4 invaders while the guard is fucking around, or the texas woman in the woods single handling the royal knight who was empowered by dark magic, just to show YEAH GIRLBOSSS moment. LMAO very organic

This show was definitely written by AI

[shane brannigan]

So last movie that wasn't "Disney and Pixar" or last movie that was 2d animation? If you meant the first, Strange World released November 2022 but if you mean the latter then Winnie the Pooh in July 2011.

So they haven't made an actual Disney movie since 2011. Tragic.
If they go back to 2d animation without culture war subtext BS I will treat that shit like gen-z treated 'rise of gru'. I will organise a watch party for everyone I know IRL and treat that shit with the proper pomp and circumstance it deserves. I'm talking like going to a world primer kind of venue not just a vue.

[Syegfryed]

Yeah totally right. There is no original creative thought process anymore. No RISKS. Because you better believe if a company lays out 250 mil they WANT the highest chance of a return on their investment and nowadays that's too much money to chance on idk a real human being writing good lore-respecting stories.

They definetly took risks, the risk was doing a show pure by AI, with modern genz shenanigans, for modern teens to watch

of course it failed hard.

[s_bushido]

quick tangent, what was the last animated movie Disney made? And I don't mean Pixar they stuff I mean like Hercules and the Aladdin.

/shrug. The only Disney branded movies I hear about anymore are those godawful live-action remakes. I assume all their good ideas go through Pixar or some shit.

[MrLachyG]

I dunno, I watched the reboot and didnt enjoy it but not because of the women. Just was boring and the bad guy had nothing memorable about them. AL was okay but also very one dimensional. I'd put them about equal because the 2016 one had a few parts of decent humor while AL was more serious.

Can't compare a scifi drama to a scifi comedy. Just isn't fair even if from the same source material. I don't think it's also fair to think everyone who hated on the 2016 is a man child but the poster you were responding to...well i can't defend them.

couldn't agree more. you could've had 4 of the funniest male comedic actors and the movie still would've been shit. the best actors can't turn bad writing into gold, no matter who they are. as for the gender issue, look at Ghostbusters Afterlife. you could argue that Phoebe Spangler was the main character for that one, yet it was deemed a success (or way more of a success than the 2016 version)

[Calfredd]

So they haven't made an actual Disney movie since 2011. Tragic.
If they go back to 2d animation without culture war subtext BS I will treat that shit like gen-z treated 'rise of gru'. I will organise a watch party for everyone I know IRL and treat that shit with the proper pomp and circumstance it deserves. I'm talking like going to a world primer kind of venue not just a vue.

Sorry I think I worded that weirdly. The last CGI Disney movie from Walt Disney Animation Studios is Strange World in November 2022 and the last 2d movie from Walt Disney Animation Studios was 2011.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._feature_films

[shane brannigan]

Sorry I think I worded that weirdly. The last CGI Disney movie from Walt Disney Animation Studios is Strange World in November 2022 and the last 2d movie from Walt Disney Animation Studios was 2011.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._feature_films

I understood. I just kind of want Disney to making Disney style movies.

They've been over using their bought IP's for too long, and Disney Pixar movies don't fill the void left by 2d animated movies.

[RampageBW1]

How many babies were stolen from stupid Daikinis? if < 1, then I can totally see this series flopping.

[Triceron]

There's nothing in Willow that wasn't included "organically" in the story, in this respect. If you can handle magic and monsters existing but the idea of two girls being romantically interested in each other is too much for you, the problem isn't with the media you're consuming.

You could use that excuse for anything though.

You could defend any unnatural part of a story just by saying 'it's fantasy, it doesn't need to make sense'. Not really a good argument there.

[Endus]

You could use that excuse for anything though.

You could defend any unnatural part of a story just by saying 'it's fantasy, it doesn't need to make sense'. Not really a good argument there.

Magic doesn't make sense. What matters is if the show/book is consistent with itself. Not to any real-world arbitrary standard, like "medieval europe". That's not an expectation for fantasy, not unless the creators make that choice, and if they're not lining up in some ways, they clearly don't.

And in this case, women being able to handle themselves in a fight, or two women having romantic interest in each other, neither of those are even fantastical, let alone "not making sense". If you've got a problem with either, you're the one with a problem, not the material.

And to repeat how I started; I'm not actually arguing this show was great. I thought it had some interesting ideas but the whole was a bit roughly thrown together, IMO. Like, it got weirdly classist; the original Willow's about a regular dude (Willow), a rogue (Madmartigan), a couple brownies (can't remember their names), and Sorsha, who's very much slumming it with the rest. Here, we've got a prince and princess, her best friend and bodyguard who's about to join an elite warrior group, the servant who's actually secretly the Empress but doesn't know it yet and has crazy magic, and another Prince who's also got magic. And Willow, who's not living much better than before but is highly respected by his community at least. It's lost the grime of the original, and that was a big plus of it in my eyes; everyone who "matters" here already "mattered" or is about to be the most important person in the world. I think giving Graydon magic was just a "what the fuck do we do with this guy" move by the writers, and could've been done better, especially when the point was supposed to be there were no sorcerors left but Willow but the party has Willow and accidentally two more.

Those kinds of issues? Fine. That's to do with consistency with the original or its own internal rhetoric. Bitching about two girls kissing? Stuff your prejudice.

[Mace]

Another in a long line of properties that studios have been throwing at the wall to try to get them to stick. There is no love and effort behind many of these projects and the final outcome shows it.

Sadly this is QFT --- because it's a machine and a paycheque to many of them, and the people who hire them. IT's really the company - if it just wants to make money, it doesn't realise you need to put people who actually care of these things in charge, - but maybe they are also being fooled by activists /shrug .. who care far more for the messaging than the tale, so come in with all the right soundbites that fit the current rhetoric, and get hired instead of the people who genuinely care for the product/franchise rather than the messaging, and write accordingly - except get rejected because their writing doesn't have the write messaging.

- - - Updated - - -

Magic doesn't make sense. What matters is if the show/book is consistent with itself. Not to any real-world arbitrary standard, like "medieval europe". That's not an expectation for fantasy, not unless the creators make that choice, and if they're not lining up in some ways, they clearly don't.

And in this case, women being able to handle themselves in a fight, or two women having romantic interest in each other, neither of those are even fantastical, let alone "not making sense". If you've got a problem with either, you're the one with a problem, not the material.

And to repeat how I started; I'm not actually arguing this show was great. I thought it had some interesting ideas but the whole was a bit roughly thrown together, IMO. Like, it got weirdly classist; the original Willow's about a regular dude (Willow), a rogue (Madmartigan), a couple brownies (can't remember their names), and Sorsha, who's very much slumming it with the rest. Here, we've got a prince and princess, her best friend and bodyguard who's about to join an elite warrior group, the servant who's actually secretly the Empress but doesn't know it yet and has crazy magic, and another Prince who's also got magic. And Willow, who's not living much better than before but is highly respected by his community at least. It's lost the grime of the original, and that was a big plus of it in my eyes; everyone who "matters" here already "mattered" or is about to be the most important person in the world. I think giving Graydon magic was just a "what the fuck do we do with this guy" move by the writers, and could've been done better, especially when the point was supposed to be there were no sorcerors left but Willow but the party has Willow and accidentally two more.

Those kinds of issues? Fine. That's to do with consistency with the original or its own internal rhetoric. Bitching about two girls kissing? Stuff your prejudice.

Roughly thrown together, that sounds about right, like trying to fit bits and pieces together, or rather, get this in and that in for the soundbytes, or because this is what we want people to see cos we think it will either sell or get the right publicity, rather than actually this makes natural sense, would resonate with people in a realistic manner, entertain and even inspire them because it's a good story.