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  1. #1

    Suggestion for the Politics section

    Give the moderators in the section the authority to deal with trolls and bad faith posters.

    I mean you had Thwart as a moderator for what felt like forever while he did everything he could to refuse to do his job and instead was an activist who would ban and infract anyone who talked bad about Trump but let people who fawned over him break rule after rule.

    He is gone now but according the to moderators their they don’t have the authority to deal with trolls and bad faith posters who have been there for years and make what they are doing very apparent and the most they can do is give them an infraction but typically only after 5+ pages or derailing threads with people too self absorbed to let their trolling be ignored and roll off the threads so they HAVE to respond to it at which point they are more likely to get the infraction for responding to them then they are.

    I understand those who keep feeding them are almost as responsible for the trolling as the trolls but the moderators act powerless to do anything about them.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  2. #2
    Void Lord Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
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    Politics in general is a contentious subject, no matter what the sensitive issue, you will wide range of views that aren't always going to agree. Someone stating what they think or believe and being asked about it even if in the minority at times, isn't specifically evidence of them posting in bad faith is.


    Posting with things like personal insults, and comments on someone else's comments, or to simply spam a same or similar messages would be posting in bad faith. But even that is subjective. Nobody has to respond to another person post, they might want to but choosing to engage another person shouldn't be a problem provided it doesn't lead to breaking the rules. Which seem very clear.

    Asking for certain people to make subjective decisions on other peoples comments and content, while complaining about someone you feel did the exact same thing, seems to kind of be all of the same thing.

    We already in addition to Politics have a wide range of topics we not only can't discuss, but people who for one or another reason aren't even here anymore. Participation and people officially online seem to be at an ALL time low.

    And there are certainly some who post a lot more than others. I don't think the problem is with a lot of people posting just in bad faith. I think the biggest problem are applying the rules unevenly, if there is any confusion that the rules exist at all for some.

    If posting in bad faith should be something subjective just decided with no evidence other than unpopular opinion, then insults and and blatant personal attacks should be as well.

    Find me anywhere online where politics or even gaming is discussed and people don't disagree even vigorously. Why is the I don't like what someone has to say, even thought they follow the rules be sought to be more punished?
    Milli Vanilli, Bigger than Elvis

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    It's really, really easy to get infracted in the politics forum... like way easier than anywhere else on the site. Not sure what you're talking about.

    I actually agree with Amadeus that participation is at an incredibly low level, and for the politics forum in particular I think it's because it's too easy to get a ban there when tempers get high so most people who don't have an incredibly liberal viewpoint peaced out a long time ago.
    Eh, it is quite easy to not get infracted, I have numerous posts debating with Endus and Edge and others as I share difference of views on certain topics. I have gotten a total of 3 infractions during my time here, 1 was a video that had violence that I did not label and at the time was not listed in the rules as being not allowed, my 2nd was my sig being 8 pixels too much, and my third was telling a Chinese shill to fuck off. At no point have I ever been hit with an infraction for having a differing opinion. It is not hard to just post constructively.

  4. #4
    I think the Mod Squad know sociopolitical issues will garner contention and generally allow it to run its course for a bit before feeling the need to step in without using the ban-hammer. And unless someone is being a complete ass that seems fair to me.

  5. #5
    I am Murloc! KOUNTERPARTS's Avatar
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    Good lord, lol.
    Suggestion for anybody considering making a thread in S&F about the Politics section:

    don't.

    It's the same song and dance with the same answer every single time. Prepare for the exact same umbrella responses. Move on with your lives.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    I think the Mod Squad know sociopolitical issues will garner contention and generally allow it to run its course for a bit before feeling the need to step in without using the ban-hammer. And unless someone is being a complete ass that seems fair to me.
    Not really what I meant. I mean sure, give a lot of leeway and chances.

    But you know we have plenty in there who do nothing but troll and antagonize and flat out lie to the point they be given a story and then claim it says the opposite of what it really does.

    I mean those who go till they get banned, come back, go some more till they get banned, skating straight up to the line of what they know they can get away with for 10+ pages before they go, then come back and keep repeating it.

    You know the ones that we all know are straight out lying in there or posting in bad faith.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  7. #7
    It's funny when talking about politics involves more accountability and consequences for lying and trolling than actual politics

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    Not really what I meant. I mean sure, give a lot of leeway and chances.

    But you know we have plenty in there who do nothing but troll and antagonize and flat out lie to the point they be given a story and then claim it says the opposite of what it really does.

    I mean those who go till they get banned, come back, go some more till they get banned, skating straight up to the line of what they know they can get away with for 10+ pages before they go, then come back and keep repeating it.

    You know the ones that we all know are straight out lying in there or posting in bad faith.
    Simply don't reply to them, if they are trolls they are just feeding off people being angry at them, spending way too much time writing out long responses. They most likely love that they know the other person wasted 30+ minutes of their life. I mean we are on a wow fan forum, the few of the people left here that still post are most likely pretty stuck in their beliefs and will most likely not budge that much. So everything will just go around and around for 1,000 pages.
    Last edited by Deus Mortis; 2023-03-20 at 08:45 AM.

  9. #9
    Elemental Lord unfilteredJW's Avatar
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    Oh look, Fugus complaining about moderation.

    Thanks for at least doing it here and not clogging up and derailing threads with your backseat moderating.
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    Their enemies are busy labeling people "shitheads," dodging all the tough arguments (to the extent they acknowledge contrary arguments existing), and going over all the prejudices that make them believe they're arguing with bad people.
    "Dodge tough questions" types the poster with people on ignore who he couldn't handle the tough questions of.

  10. #10
    Should just burn it down.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by unfilteredJW View Post
    Oh look, Fugus complaining about moderation.

    Thanks for at least doing it here and not clogging up and derailing threads with your backseat moderating.
    No, I typically don’t complain about the moderation.

    I mainly keep pointing out how you keep getting you butt handed to you by people lying to get a reaction from you and you fall for it every time.

    Some of you even call them out for it proving you know they are doing it but you keep feeding if them.

    I have seen you get your butt handed to you too many times to count while pretending you are actually debating or even winning when you aren’t.


    Edit:

    You just get annoyed that people keep pointing out when you screw up so you keep screwing up.

    I mean once I even started trolling myself personally as a test, told you (or at least a few regulars in it, it’s been a while) I was doing it and told you how to win at it. I literally gave you guys a flashlight and a map and you still couldn’t figure out the game for 2 or 3 full pages of me pointing out you lost again with every response.
    Last edited by Fugus; 2023-03-21 at 01:28 AM.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    It's really, really easy to get infracted in the politics forum... like way easier than anywhere else on the site. Not sure what you're talking about.

    I actually agree with Amadeus that participation is at an incredibly low level, and for the politics forum in particular I think it's because it's too easy to get a ban there when tempers get high so most people who don't have an incredibly liberal viewpoint peaced out a long time ago.
    That is absolutely hilarious.

  13. #13
    The Patient vincink's Avatar
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    It'd be interesting to try giving every user a limited number of replies in a day and a limited number of replies per hour. Only in the politics section. Start off with 5 replies a day, 1 reply per hour. A limited rate of replies and number of replies forces users to cool off between posts.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by vincink View Post
    It'd be interesting to try giving every user a limited number of replies in a day and a limited number of replies per hour. Only in the politics section. Start off with 5 replies a day, 1 reply per hour. A limited rate of replies and number of replies forces users to cool off between posts.
    That would grind the entire section to a halt and kill it.

    Much easier methods.

    1) Give users the abilities view a persons previous names and avatars to make sure that people can't just change it and avoid most of their past actions unless someone is trying to fish through their replies hoping to get a clue on who they really are.

    2) If you have been proven something is a lie in the past multiple times with evidence and you keep repeating that same lie like it's real. Then that should be an infraction for trolling. Like, if I posted a factual lie and I have had it proven to be a lie twice, that third time I posted it should count as trolling as, at that point, I am posting it just to get a reaction and not to debate, inform or do anything constructive.

    Knowingly posting false information like it is factually true should have some level of action hopefully an infraction or maybe labeling a user as someone who repeatedly posts false information.

    If I have a habit of posting a single inflammatory statement and then leave and that is literally my only posting habit in a section for months on end where I never actually post anything constructive, I just flame and run to count my replies later, that should count.

    3) Redo how the ignore function works as it is near borderline useless. It currently puts a block on showing their posts but still keeps them up along with any replies to them but then will completely block out threads started by them. So....

    3a) If you ignore someone, it does not ignore entire threads created by them because those can actually turn into something productive after people have corrected the lies and taken it somewhere worth something.

    3b) If you ignore someone, it doesn't just put a mask over the post, it flat out doesn't even show it at all on your screen or post that is quoting them to reply to them. Have too many times where I could come back to look at a thread and so 15+ pages of activity over maybe an 5-8 hour time span only to look at it to find out 10+ pages of it is literally 1 person trolling for hours with 1-3 people feeding them constantly because they think refuting the lies is doing something when all it was really doing was giving them air to keep going. Quite literally having 1 troll kicking the crap out of 3 people for hours and pages on end because they can't just let the lie be ignored and drop off the thread in maybe 1-3 posts before they get tired of fishing for responses and not getting them and moving on and instead helping the troll to continue on.

    Would be much better to just not see the posts from the person ignored or the replies to them at all, not mask them, flat out not show them at all. The biggest abuses you could see of the system would be people who try and ignore people who disagree with them which will backfire for them when the section shows no activity on their screen at all but those who use it only for the trolls would have it infinitely more usable instead.
    Last edited by Fugus; 2023-03-21 at 03:39 AM.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  15. #15
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Trolls are easy to spot if you frequent nearly any forum on any site for long enough. The best thing is the simplest: Don't feed them. Don't give them any attention.

    Report them and walk away from answering them. The world isn't going to change because trolls on MMO-C go unanswered.

    Personal opinion: The off-topics forum has so diluted the main purpose of this site that there's a valid argument for burning it down, politics and everything else.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2023-03-23 at 06:28 AM.
    "...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Personal opinion: The off-topics forum has so diluted the main purpose of this site that there's a valid argument for burning it down, politics and everything else.
    While probably true, other sides just do everything better by now. Wowhead offers news, datamining, guides much faster and class discussion has largely moved to the individual discords.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    While probably true, other sides just do everything better by now. Wowhead offers news, datamining, guides much faster and class discussion has largely moved to the individual discords.
    But where else would I get my world of warcraft opinions from like 5 people who apparently haven't played in years!

  18. #18
    On the topic of participation: I rarely post anymore because of all the trolls and bad-faith posters. So it can go both ways.
    "In order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance." Paradox of tolerance

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Personal opinion: The off-topics forum has so diluted the main purpose of this site that there's a valid argument for burning it down, politics and everything else.
    I somewhat agree but there's something to be said about an active message board in God's year 2023. It was an anomaly when the site was at its peak popularity in the early '10s... the fact that it's still around today, even if it is in a somewhat diminished state, is something we shouldn't just lob into the endless of abyss of the internet because the inevitable passage of time has corrupted its original intentions.

  20. #20
    Herald of the Titans PickleballAce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    Give the moderators in the section the authority to deal with trolls and bad faith posters.


    Live look at the Mods calling out the bad faith posters.

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