Diablo 4 is great.

[Nymrohd]

Why do people make statements like this?
Yes, people like inventory management.

Good god, I'm an accountant and I don't enjoy inventory management. What is wrong with people.

[Caprias]

That's the weight of your decisions. You don't have to pick up every item. Doing so has a cost in effectivity vs. wealth.

Except no, there isn't a decision here unless you don't care about optimization at all.

Rares will be the most important items in d4, you will pick every single one up and if your inventory is full you go back to your stash and then again to the dungeon or will have to evaluate them inside the dungeon, great for the gameplay flow of a diablo game I'm sure lol.

[Fencers]

Except no, there isn't a decision here unless you don't care about optimization at all.

there is a decision, "do I pick that up or keep going?"

It is not possible to be otherwise. The space in limited. Even if you don't actively manage the inventory, you are making a decision.

[Caprias]

there is a decision, "do I pick that up or keep going?"

It is not possible to be otherwise. The space in limited. Even if you don't actively manage the inventory, you are making a decision.

you meant, "do I pick that up or do I pick that up later" right? cool, great decision making possibilities.

Or do I disrupt the carnage by evaluating everything when it drops, also very cool...

[Fencers]

you meant, "do I pick that up or do I pick that up later" right? cool, great decision making possibilities.

Or do I disrupt the carnage by evaluating everything when it drops, also very cool...

Yes, that is what wealth/efficiency means in the post you quoted.

[Baalboski]

It is Diablo 3.5. Even the camera angle makes me not want to play it, you see like only 3 yards ahead of you so you get nausea.
Company of Heroes 1 did camera right, when holding in Alt and moving the mouse you can see for miles.

IMHO Torchlight 2 is better than Diablo 3 & The first Diablo 3 expac (the one with the paladin) is better than Torchlight 2. D4 is just meh.

Sorry, No. You are actually a blatant Troll now.

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What on Earth are you talking about?

I'm sure D4 will be fun but saying they aren't sticking to the formula is a joke; it's the most simplistic, formulaic ARPG to date. It has zero of the depth of the games you claim to be following the beaten path, and the things that are "new" are things that only nominally affect gameplay at all. Even Diablo Immortal is far more innovative than what we've seen of D4 so far, shitshow that it is.

You aren't wrong here. Diablo Immortal did some breakthrough game improvements imho for the genre. Guild vs guild in any aspect is a very good thing. It wasn't perfect in DI but it was a step in the right direction to be sure. And we NEED pvp in d4! Like Battleground PvP. Battleground PvP actually works in diablo turns out.

[yasiru]

I don’t doubt it, but the question could also be, why have limited space at all?

It’s mostly just a D&D tradition, to have players make a choice about picking up items that has basically just been adopted into videogames.

The whole reason I brought this section of the conversation up is because, while I know even old school paper rpgs dealt with inventory management or sometimes what they referred to as character weight limit, it wouldn't have surprised me if the inventory size on your character in D1 and D2 was due to technical limitations back in those days as much as a conscious decision. That was all. I didn't mean for this whole thing to get blown out of proportion.

[chiddie]

it's a game mechanism. One doesn't have to enjoy the action itself, but what it brings as a mechanism can be enjoyable.




Nonsense. Many games use inventory as gameplay feature of engagement: Resident Evil, No Man's Sky, Sons of the Forest, Outward, Dark Souls, et cetera.

These were all well-regarded and most have been features as explarmary execution of inventory management in game design among game designers.

You can’t compare RE inventory management to an ARPG inventory management. RE inventory management had gameplay implications, you hadn’t an armor, rings and trinkets, you only had weapons, ammunitions, herbs and puzzle items. Save games and save points were limited and managing what you could take with you added another layer of discomfort, that was perfectly fine given the nature of the gameplay.

But ARPGS are a different beast. I’m playing PoE these days and man the inventory is just so bad that it totally kills the immersion. Even leaving on the ground anything below yellow items leads you to port in town every 5 to 10 minutes to identify/sell stuff.

Also, on a side note. I got to level 25 and if I pretend I don’t know anything about PoE endgame, the experience compared to D4 1-25 has been quite miserable. The only thing I liked more is the mob density.

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Sorry, No. You are actually a blatant Troll now.

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You aren't wrong here. Diablo Immortal did some breakthrough game improvements imho for the genre. Guild vs guild in any aspect is a very good thing. It wasn't perfect in DI but it was a step in the right direction to be sure. And we NEED pvp in d4! Like Battleground PvP. Battleground PvP actually works in diablo turns out.

They can add anything multi, as long as it’s not mandatory to get the best loot. The second it turns out like this, I’m out.

I’ve had enough of multi mandatory stuff in WoW, thanks.

[Strawberry]

What on Earth are you talking about?

The nominally mmo aspect of the game that has very little real-world affect on your day to day gameplay? You see people literally all day every day in towns in PoE.

The seasonal play aspect? There has been a new league with new content in PoE every 3 or 4 months for 8 or 9 years. I'd be amazed if Blizzard seasons in D4 were anything close to as gamechanging as a PoE league is, besides what they functionally sell in a battlepass.

I'm sure D4 will be fun but saying they aren't sticking to the formula is a joke; it's the most simplistic, formulaic ARPG to date. It has zero of the depth of the games you claim to be following the beaten path, and the things that are "new" are things that only nominally affect gameplay at all. Even Diablo Immortal is far more innovative than what we've seen of D4 so far, shitshow that it is.

I don't think you even played Diablo 4 beta lol, considering you're comparing seeing other people in towns in PoE to Diablo 4 open world where you see people all over the place and who interact with your enemies and bosses. Go troll somewhere else.

[Mamut]

I don't think you even played Diablo 4 beta lol, considering you're comparing seeing other people in towns in PoE to Diablo 4 open world where you see people all over the place and who interact with your enemies and bosses. Go troll somewhere else.

I played 3 builds to level 25 for many hours and the only time I saw some people were the world bosses and sometimes on some events. They do not interfere with anything, having them here (or not having them) would not change anything for me except obviously needing them for Ashava.

The whole D4 mmo aspect is blown out of proportion by people. For me it's nothing like MMO and 99% of time I just played solo.

[Fencers]

You can’t compare RE inventory management to an ARPG inventory management.

They are just mechanisms. Perfectly comparable.

Player decisions are derived by having limited X space for Y items. That is the gameplay device.

[chiddie]

I don't think you even played Diablo 4 beta lol, considering you're comparing seeing other people in towns in PoE to Diablo 4 open world where you see people all over the place and who interact with your enemies and bosses. Go troll somewhere else.

You’ve been very unlucky then, I only saw one-two people from time to time (and I didn’t play 2 to 6AM).

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They are just mechanisms. Perfectly comparable.

Player decisions are derived by having limited X space for Y items. That is the gameplay device.

It’s not the same gameplay device. It’s always an inventory, that’s true, but as I said the purpose is different.

In ARPG the decision is always the same: do I leave this stuff on the floor this time because I can’t bother to port in town and vendor stuff anymore for this session?

D2 and PoE are just HORRIBLE in this, it totally ruins immersion. What you call “management” is simply decide when you’ve had enough to port back and forth vendoring stuff.

I honestly don’t see how this could be engaging in the long run, again, in games like D4.

I am also 101% surprised that there’s apparently no loot filter, I hope we will get it asap.

[infinitemeridian]

I don't understand why they can't just let you see item tooltips BEFORE picking them up. Like in Last Epoch. Then I can make a decision without having to fill up my inventory. It's fine to have a game with inventory management, but it shouldn't be ABOUT inventory management.

[Cankayra]

No, it is not.

[Fencers]

It’s not the same gameplay device. It’s always an inventory, that’s true, but as I said the purpose is different.

They are exactly the same.

Just the other day, I was playing RE7 and found some herbs but my pack was full and I had to decide if I was going to leave the herbs there and press on or run back to the safe room.

This morning, I ran through a level in Last Epoch. My pack was full and I had to decide if I was going to run to my stash or leave the items there to press on.

I just had to do that in Black Desert as I was running my dailies, like 4 minutes ago. Dump this stuff in town, or leave it on the ground and keep going.

[chiddie]

They are exactly the same.

Just the other day, I was playing RE7 and found some herbs but my pack was full and I had to decide if I was going to leave the herbs there and press on or run back to the safe room.

This morning, I ran through a level in Last Epoch. My pack was full and I had to decide if I was going to run to my stash or leave the items there to press on.

I just had to do that in Black Desert as I was running my dailies, like 4 minutes ago. Dump this stuff in town, or leave it on the ground and keep going.

Dude there are literally no decisions to make with inventory in ARPGS: you have two choices, ALWAYS. 1. Port to town, sell stuff, port back, pick up stuff you left (or not) and move on. 2. Leave stuff on the ground and move on.

Because inventory does not contain items you use on the fly, you don’t open the inventory in combat to swap gear or to use a potion, it’s only a loot repository.

If this is considered “fun management”, I really don’t know what else I can say.

RE is totally different. Again, if you can’t see the difference between RE inventory management and ARPG X inventory management I don’t know what else I can say.

[Fencers]

Dude there are literally no decisions to make with inventory in ARPGS: you have two choices, ALWAYS. 1. Port to town, sell stuff, port back, pick up stuff you left (or not) and move on. 2. Leave stuff on the ground and move on.

You're contradicting yourself. "No decisions" then you list two choices. That is the literal definition of a decision.

I am not sure what you are getting at or if that is what you intend to say.

Because inventory does not contain items you use on the fly, you don’t open the inventory in combat to swap gear or to use a potion, it’s only a loot repository.

In D4, D2, and POE, you do have items you use on the fly from inventory. A few other ARPGs have this as well such as Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance, Champions of Norrath, Grim Dawn, Titan Quest and Inquisitor, and Victor Vran.

If this is considered “fun management”, I really don’t know what else I can say.

Fun is subjective. That's not for me to decide for you.

RE is totally different. Again, if you can’t see the difference between RE inventory management and ARPG X inventory management I don’t know what else I can say.

It isn't different. Most limited-capacity inventory systems are designed to force a player's choice at some point. It doesn't matter what whizzy-wig you are collecting. If at any point the mechanism forces a player to do X or Y they are the same device.

The metaphor may change- you're managing an attache case or a duffle bag. Or perhaps have a rate limit such as in Spellforce or a total average such as in Far Cry. But they all are the same device.

[unfilteredJW]

Can't comment since ARPGs thrive on the endgame grind and I haven't seen the systems yet.

[chiddie]

You're contradicting yourself. "No decisions" then you list two choices. That is the literal definition of a decision.

I am not sure what you are getting at or if that is what you intend to say.

In D4, D2, and POE, you do have items you use on the fly from inventory. A few other ARPGs have this as well such as Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance, Champions of Norrath, Grim Dawn, Titan Quest and Inquisitor, and Victor Vran.

Fun is subjective. That's not for me to decide for you.


It isn't different. Most limited-capacity inventory systems are designed to force a player's choice at some point. It doesn't matter what whizzy-wig you are collecting. If at any point the mechanism forces a player to do X or Y they are the same device.

The metaphor may change- you're managing an attache case or a duffle bag. Or perhaps have a rate limit such as in Spellforce or a total average such as in Far Cry. But they all are the same device.

We have different visions about what “management” is. I honestly don’t see any interesting mechanic in “managing” inventory in ARPGs, it’s only an annoying time sinking layer. The auto pick up and disenchant altar power in D3 S28 is the first thing I unlocked when I reached that row of the altar.

Also I don’t think I ever swapped anything during combat in any ARPG, at least not while leveling.

Not a problem, different minds, different ideas.

Edit: oh, also, probably the less time you have to play, the more you can recognize useless time sinks and the more they annoy you. I am 100% sure that if I could play 4+ hours a day every day the inventory “management” wouldn’t feel this annoying.

[Skorpionss]

Outside world completely inter-connected without loading screens and without hard act separation is a novelty for the genre.

It's really not though. Sacred did it decades ago and with a much bigger world map. I'm sure there are others too.