Diablo 4's endgame be like...

[Edge-]

It had 65 million players by its 10th anniversary, you are not going to play D3 for long without buying RoS, that expansion changed the game, giving the base version for free to a certain group just lead to more sales of the game, and shows how popular the diablo brand is, 65 million bought into D3 regardless of what it cost them in the end.

There is zero evidence to support any of that.

The last numbers announced were 20M sales for D3, and another 10M sales for RoS, combined for a total of 30M sales. There is no additional data beyond that, and "players" does not translate to "sales" as "players" includes those who played the free trial but did not purchase the game.

Publishers are very specific with these numbers. If the game had sold 65M copies, they'd very much say so as that would make it one of the most sold games ever.

[kenn9530]

There is zero evidence to support any of that.

The last numbers announced were 20M sales for D3, and another 10M sales for RoS, combined for a total of 30M sales. There is no additional data beyond that, and "players" does not translate to "sales" as "players" includes those who played the free trial but did not purchase the game.

Publishers are very specific with these numbers. If the game had sold 65M copies, they'd very much say so as that would make it one of the most sold games ever.

The game continued to sell well after 2015 they just didnt post anymore numbers on it, blizzard rarely post anything about actual sales numbers so there is no evidence saying 65 million didnt buy D3 and its expansion, we have a statement from the 10th anniversary from blizz themselves giving a thanks for 65 million supporting the game, supporting generally also means financially.

[beanman12345]

as that would make it one of the most sold games ever.

Uh, it is. I mean it's not minecraft or tetris but still is.

[Greyvax]

i have faith in the game, solely because of how massively they improved D3 when RoS came out.

[Edge-]

The game continued to sell well after 2015 they just didnt post anymore numbers on it, blizzard rarely post anything about actual sales numbers so there is no evidence saying 65 million didnt buy D3 and its expansion, we have a statement from the 10th anniversary from blizz themselves giving a thanks for 65 million supporting the game, supporting generally also means financially.

Citation needed for literally any of these claims*

[Beefhammer]

Citation needed for literally any of these claims*

Literally the 10th anniversary statement. I don't have a link but it is easily searchable. Yes the 65M doesn't necessarily mean 65M sales, but there haven't been many free giveaways.

Also do you think D2 only sold 4M copies? Last report of total sold was in 2001/2002. D3 sold over 1M on Switch in 2018 as well. D3 sold well it's entire lifetime.

[Edge-]

Literally the 10th anniversary statement. I don't have a link but it is easily searchable. Yes the 65M doesn't necessarily mean 65M sales, but there haven't been many free giveaways.

Also do you think D2 only sold 4M copies? Last report of total sold was in 2001/2002. D3 sold over 1M on Switch in 2018 as well. D3 sold well it's entire lifetime.

65 million players = | sales, ever. Those include free trial numbers. If they're using any metric other than sales, it's because they're not talking about sales.

And if you read like 3 posts up no, it sold at least 20M copies of the base game and 10M of the expansion as those were the final official sales numbers revealed.

[rhorle]

Literally the 10th anniversary statement. I don't have a link but it is easily searchable. Yes the 65M doesn't necessarily mean 65M sales, but there haven't been many free giveaways.

The game was free to play in China (you had to buy the expansion) so the player count and copies sold could be vastly different.

[Ringthane]

Fine. Diablo 3 only sold 8 copies. And they all went to people in this thread.

Better now? Can we move on to the next pointless debate?

I mean, seriously:

1) The main reason people play Diablo games is for loot. If not, you wouldn't have people doing these runs, and those runs, and them runs.
2) They're hugely successful. If they weren't, we wouldn't have four games of Diablo alone, plus PoE and other things.

[Orange Joe]

No. That is what the genre has become.

Diablo 3 is when the endless max grinding became a thing. Diablo 2 (when that game first came out) that was basically niche.

Tell that to all the people that ran pindle/baal/meph/insert run here 100/1000/10000/1000000000 times.

[Gaidax]

Let's be real, people will grind that 1-2 specific routes/encounters/things x4512123 just like in every other Diablo game in existence, because it always was efficiency > everything else including fun.

The beta and slam showed it. Beta everyone did Kor event and that level 35 mob to death, because it gave better loot. And in slam everyone did Kor relog chest run because it gave most legos, even if it killed their soul to do it and was meaningless AF on top of it.

I do hope Blizzard will manage to somehow diversify it, but I won't hold my breath. I am quite positive about this game, but I am certainly not sold on "dungeons" being good at the very least first year. IMO, they missed the mark hard there.

[Biomega]

Tell that to all the people that ran pindle/baal/meph/insert run here 100/1000/10000/1000000000 times.

I always smile when people "complain" that Diablo games are "just about grinding for better gear". Yeah... and McDonald's is all about cheap-ass burgers and might-have-once-been-chicken nuggets. Shocking, I know.

[Nzx]

because it always was efficiency > everything else including fun.

This is just a fundamental misunderstanding of why the long-term ARPG community play ARPG games. The efficiency is the fun. That's the goal. You start doing something, the loot that drops makes you more efficient at doing it, you keep doing it, you get more efficient, and eventually you either max out the character or you move on to a different grind. That's the entire point of ARPG end game. Sure, there's usually a storyline element that you play through at the beginning, and for some people that's the whole game - but the people who stick around and actually form the community of the game aren't generally interested in that at all.

[Biomega]

You must not have been playing the same Diablo 2... I remember spamming on every single class in D2. Even in PvP it was still a spamfest. Maybe I was doing it wrong. /shrug

It depends on the gear. While leveling and in bad gear, D2 combat has more nuance - once you're in a decent setup, it's VERY simplistic - teleport in, spam OP skill that clears everything, teleport to the next location, repeat. D2 is shallow as a puddle, what saves it is that it's a pretty fun puddle.

[Kikazz]

Not for me. I play the narrative, make a new character, repeat… Alone.

The mmo part is already a red flag to me.

so the game for you is done and boring in a few replays?

legit the worst way to play this game, is the way you mentioned.

[Biomega]

I'm going to disagree with you in regard to being poorly geared or being in a leveling situation. At the very core, you figured out the skill you could effectively use, sort its synergies, level those things and spam the same ability over and over. While the abilities changed as you progressed, the essence was always the same.

To clarify, I also don't disagree that you primarily use one ability, maybe two (excluding precasts like buffs or minions) - that's a natural consequence of the synergy system that rewards you for heavily investing into one thing and buffing it with your other skill points.

What I'm saying is that while leveling and in bad gear you do more than just spam that ability - you move a lot, you position a lot, you bait, and so on. When you do use abilities it's mostly the same one, absolutely, but you don't JUST spam abilities - until endgame. Then you basically do just do that, plus teleports. There's very little positional play or whatever in most geared farming setups. You just telestomp (or equivalent) most things, because you're so decked out you kill everything quickly enough and can facetank the rest.

There's a few exceptions, but by and large there's very little to do in endgame gear other than teleport-spam-teleport-spam-teleport..., while during early game and with bad gear you do need to move a lot and be smart about your positioning - even though the skills you use are still pretty much the same, that much is absolutely correct.

[Tyris Flare]

Oh my god, someone that has common sense on mmo-champion, insane.

You cant believe how many times you have to explain this to people.

Your irrelevant wrong experience of playing the game at any point, does not contribute to the discussion/delusion that the game has changed.

I still clearly remember the Friday after school when i was 16 years old that i got 2 Tal chests, 2 Immortal Chests, 3 Stormshields, Ber rune, perfect Titans and a bunch of other shit dropping in a span of 2 hours, when the last 2 weeks all i got was Ist at best, or lower tier Titans, and a Shako, barely grinding every day for 1-2 hours with 56K connection, teleport teleport teleport, meteor meteor, oh fire immune pindle, kapoof! got 1 shotted.

Then using all that or Breath of the Dying and Enigma on a PK Warrior and helper for ancients for friends, bla bla, or people begging me to sell them Ali Babas and other items like SoJ, offering me 20 euros in the net cafe daily for items (Why do you think Blizzard introduced Auction House in D3 you weirdos?).

And you gonna have someone that will tell you "Oh yeah, played D2 back in the day, went to level 20!".

Yeah man, you really know how Diablo 2 was played back in 2000-2003, we really have the same gaming experience!

Your opinion on Diablo 3 and 4 is really relevant you are correct!

I wish we could copy past this on almost every thread in this forum. Explains almost every wow thread, even the lore ones. People's perspective changes in 20 years but they blame the product

[potis]

I wish we could copy past this on almost every thread in this forum. Explains almost every wow thread, even the lore ones. People's perspective changes in 20 years but they blame the product

But thats the point, did they ever have a perspective? How can someone talk about something they havent even experienced.

Its like throwing a canoe in your bathtub in 2002, claiming your did kayaking and rafting and then complaining kayaking and rafting has changed in the recent years, and when confronted to explain you realize this person is not sensible and literally believes he experienced kayaking/rafting by having a canoe in his bathtub.

Most of people on here with Blizzard games are the same really.

[Aliven]

Let's be real, people will grind that 1-2 specific routes/encounters/things x4512123 just like in every other Diablo game in existence, because it always was efficiency > everything else including fun.

The beta and slam showed it. Beta everyone did Kor event and that level 35 mob to death, because it gave better loot. And in slam everyone did Kor relog chest run because it gave most legos, even if it killed their soul to do it and was meaningless AF on top of it.

I do hope Blizzard will manage to somehow diversify it, but I won't hold my breath. I am quite positive about this game, but I am certainly not sold on "dungeons" being good at the very least first year. IMO, they missed the mark hard there.

Your buble =/= every buble.

Also, in D3 it was impossible to run specific route or encounter. Those are for D2, which did not have any endgame to speak off.

[Beefhammer]

65 million players = | sales, ever. Those include free trial numbers. If they're using any metric other than sales, it's because they're not talking about sales.

And if you read like 3 posts up no, it sold at least 20M copies of the base game and 10M of the expansion as those were the final official sales numbers revealed.

I said this. However if you believe the official numbers, which were not reported after 2014/15, I have some bridges for sale.

- - - Updated - - -

The game was free to play in China (you had to buy the expansion) so the player count and copies sold could be vastly different.

The game launched in China in 2014 to 1M in sales. China was pretty low on the total player and revenue count for D3. It helped make it it as big as it ended up being, but it was a minor contributor.

- - - Updated - - -

I'll give it to ya. I know I have seen people play the way you describe. I never played that way. Nor did the people I played with. It's anecdotal at best for sure. I appreciate your clarification.

I mean outside of situational exceptions, Most builds in D2 and D3, and most likely D4, end up having 1-2 abilities you spam over and over. It's not really anecdotal when you can pick any random video of someone playing and see that they are constantly using 1-2 abilities.