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  1. #1

    Why the constant nerf to BM?

    Hey.

    I play M+ and i don't have the Raz bow, Could we please stop nerfing the class based on the 0.1% of players ?

    BM is not that great outside of the raid or without the special bow.

    Awsome signature and avatar made by Kuragalolz

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Nalam the Venom View Post
    Hey.

    I play M+ and i don't have the Raz bow, Could we please stop nerfing the class based on the 0.1% of players ?

    BM is not that great outside of the raid or without the special bow.
    Weren't hunters buffed as a result of the bow being nerfed/fixed?

    https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/top...uning-changes/

  3. #3
    Because BM hunters overperform at all percentiles?

    Just look at the logs.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by LordVargK View Post
    Because BM hunters overperform at all percentiles?

    Just look at the logs.
    Just because I’m lazy, im only looking at mythic raiding.
    Eranog=not one BM Hunter, or Hunter in general, in top 100.
    Terros=mix of specs, but big portion showing BM, which is to be expected as it’s a ST focused spec that’s highly mobile.
    Primal Council=not 1 BM Hunter. Only Hunter spec is MM, which is to be expected based on its AoE focus. Mostly dominated by Boomkins.
    Sennarth=18 BM hunters. 1st one not until 18th place.
    Dathea=6 BM hunters in top 100. 1st at place 45.
    Kurog=not 1 Hunter in top 100.
    Broodkeeper=not 1 in top 100.
    Razzle Dazzle=2 in top 100.

    Now, these are obviously the top logs, but considering these are the logs of ppl playing to the best of their ability, typically with externals to help their numbers, but I’d hardly say BM dominates.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Nalam the Venom View Post
    Hey.

    I play M+ and i don't have the Raz bow, Could we please stop nerfing the class based on the 0.1% of players ?

    BM is not that great outside of the raid or without the special bow.
    Haven't had the bow either, dps is really rather excellent still.
    3%? *shrugs*


    Also it's a easy to learn easy to master specc, don't expect magic or all the world would pick it.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by loras View Post
    Haven't had the bow either, dps is really rather excellent still.
    3%? *shrugs*


    Also it's a easy to learn easy to master specc, don't expect magic or all the world would pick it.
    Ease of rotation should never be a factor in how much dps they can do, and it pretty clearly hasnt been for a while considering the state havoc was in for a while

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Ease of rotation should never be a factor in how much dps they can do, and it pretty clearly hasnt been for a while considering the state havoc was in for a while
    Being able to do everything on the move as a ranged class however should absolutely be in balancing considerations.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Caprias View Post
    Being able to do everything on the move as a ranged class however should absolutely be in balancing considerations.
    I mean when like 60-75% is tied behind trusting pet ai? I think there's already ample punishment there.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Nosnogard View Post
    Weren't hunters buffed as a result of the bow being nerfed/fixed?

    https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/top...uning-changes/
    they have already nerfed away that buff.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by LordVargK View Post
    Because BM hunters overperform at all percentiles?

    Just look at the logs.
    This is exactly what my thread is about tho.

    All you care about is your 0.1% raid team performance.

    Stop balancing classes around that.

    Awsome signature and avatar made by Kuragalolz

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    Just because I’m lazy, im only looking at mythic raiding.
    Eranog=not one BM Hunter, or Hunter in general, in top 100.
    Terros=mix of specs, but big portion showing BM, which is to be expected as it’s a ST focused spec that’s highly mobile.
    Primal Council=not 1 BM Hunter. Only Hunter spec is MM, which is to be expected based on its AoE focus. Mostly dominated by Boomkins.
    Sennarth=18 BM hunters. 1st one not until 18th place.
    Dathea=6 BM hunters in top 100. 1st at place 45.
    Kurog=not 1 Hunter in top 100.
    Broodkeeper=not 1 in top 100.
    Razzle Dazzle=2 in top 100.

    Now, these are obviously the top logs, but considering these are the logs of ppl playing to the best of their ability, typically with externals to help their numbers, but I’d hardly say BM dominates.
    In case anyone needed anymore evidence that WoW players have no clue how to look at logs, here's some more for you

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    Just because I’m lazy, im only looking at mythic raiding.
    Eranog=not one BM Hunter, or Hunter in general, in top 100.
    Terros=mix of specs, but big portion showing BM, which is to be expected as it’s a ST focused spec that’s highly mobile.
    Primal Council=not 1 BM Hunter. Only Hunter spec is MM, which is to be expected based on its AoE focus. Mostly dominated by Boomkins.
    Sennarth=18 BM hunters. 1st one not until 18th place.
    Dathea=6 BM hunters in top 100. 1st at place 45.
    Kurog=not 1 Hunter in top 100.
    Broodkeeper=not 1 in top 100.
    Razzle Dazzle=2 in top 100.

    Now, these are obviously the top logs, but considering these are the logs of ppl playing to the best of their ability, typically with externals to help their numbers, but I’d hardly say BM dominates.
    This is one of the worst takes ever

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ONCHEhap View Post
    In case anyone needed anymore evidence that WoW players have no clue how to look at logs, here's some more for you
    haha you beat me to it

    "My memory... since when? If everything is a dream, don't wake me." -Cloud Strife, Final Fantasy VII

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Nalam the Venom View Post
    This is exactly what my thread is about tho.

    All you care about is your 0.1% raid team performance.

    Stop balancing classes around that.
    Exactly the opposite.
    BM isn't OP in mythic raids and in high percentiles. But it is strong, arguably too strong, when played in lower difficulties and by players with less skill.
    This balance change was made purely for medium-skill players.

  13. #13
    these current tuning looks aimed at 10.1
    unholy is really good right now espec on boss dmg
    but in 10.1 it looks not as good with no puzzle box equiv+ 10.1 set bonus is a noticeable downgrade from current tier, so unholy buffs are probably really only targeted at next tier, probably doing them to test the waters instead before the race
    perhaps on BM they think it will scale too high in 10.1 and not necessarily indicative how they think they are doing in vault as its almost the end

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Nalam the Venom View Post
    they have already nerfed away that buff.

    - - - Updated - - -



    This is exactly what my thread is about tho.

    All you care about is your 0.1% raid team performance.

    Stop balancing classes around that.
    You can very easily argue that while you shouldn't design the game for the 1% you have to balance for them.
    If something is a bit imbalanced at a lower level it will still be playable due to the easier content, if something is imbalanced at the top however it will be unplayable no matter the effort a player puts in.

    It's also unlikely that the differences at a mid level would be that high with a top down approach, the other way around however...
    Last edited by Caprias; 2023-04-08 at 11:56 PM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by ONCHEhap View Post
    In case anyone needed anymore evidence that WoW players have no clue how to look at logs, here's some more for you
    Explain. The person claimed BM over performs at every percentile. I looked at the top 100 logs for mythic raiding and it clearly shows they do not dominate.
    Last edited by Eapoe; 2023-04-09 at 11:27 PM.

  16. #16
    It's pretty obvious why they nerfed it, 90% of hunters are BM right now and why is that? There used to be some MM hunters but now everyone rerolled to BM due to how strong and versatile they are in ST and multi target as well. Just run an heroic voti Pug and you'll see BM hunters topping charts pretty consistently. The bow doesn't even matter anymore, the buffs they received were over tuned and now they're bringing it down a notch.

    Top 100 parse for BM hunters on Terros are ALL over 100k (some slightly below) while MM has only 2 parses doing 100k and the rest are average 85k. This is your answer.

  17. #17
    cuz it's dead brain spec with barely any efforts. No skill... just.. send ur pet and do the damage and keep up stacks. Lol? what the fuck so hard about it anymore? LMAO

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Ease of rotation should never be a factor in how much dps they can do, and it pretty clearly hasnt been for a while considering the state havoc was in for a while
    Hmm, i disagree on that one.
    Playing poorly and playing well should be a factor for all, especially due to the dire repercussions in pvp.
    "Easy to do" tends to translate to "hard to counter" in pvp after all.

    And in pve too it simply frees up "bandwith" of attention so that mechanics can be better dealt with, thus allowing them to supplement their throughput in ways not necessarily reflected in flat numbers.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by trapmaster View Post
    cuz it's dead brain spec with barely any efforts. No skill... just.. send ur pet and do the damage and keep up stacks. Lol? what the fuck so hard about it anymore? LMAO
    Well its just as braindead as other specs in the game so it's not that.

    Warlock? throw dots and watch the boss melt or just spam chaos bolt
    Mage? Just spam fireball and sometimes pyro
    the list goes on.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by TbouncerT View Post
    This is one of the worst takes ever

    - - - Updated - - -



    haha you beat me to it
    Like I posted to the other person, feel free to explain. I responded to someone who said they dominate in every aspect at every percentile. I looked up mythic raiding, specifically looking at top 100 parses, and it clearly shows they aren’t dominating at every percentile.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by trapmaster View Post
    cuz it's dead brain spec with barely any efforts. No skill... just.. send ur pet and do the damage and keep up stacks. Lol? what the fuck so hard about it anymore? LMAO
    By this hot take, Aff Lock is even more brain dead than BM. Send your dots and do the damage, keep up casts in between. At least with Hunter, it’s active dot management in this comparison as you trigger when it does its big dot damage.
    But yeah, as someone else posted to you, it’s not like there’s much in the way of complex specs out there at the moment. I know ppl like to meme about BM being brain dead simple, and it is very simple, but so are so many other specs in both rdps and mdps.

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