Crypt Lord class now possible thanks to Dracthyr Evokers?

[Aleksej89]

Nerubs would be a lot more fun if it was designed both as a class & a race (like draks).
That way blizz could go all out on the new animations and models and whatnot.

If they had to adapt nerubs to 6+ regular classes its gonna be done cheap and half-assed.
Besides if i am playing a god damn nerub crypt lord the last thing i wanna be using is generic warrior skills.

[Ielenia]

There is lore to support the notion that Dark Rangers are just undead hunters.

Oh, so you've changed your mind? Because these used to be your position:

Thus, if you get an undead Hunter shooting shadow arrows, you have a Dark Ranger.

Broken down to base level, Dark Rangers are simply undead Hunters that shoot shadow arrows right?

With this one in particular:

Blizzard made it pretty obvious for over a decade that Dark Rangers are simply undead Hunters.

[Vaedan]

I am not really sure about new class, but I think "crypt lord" would make really cool Undead druid class theme. Bug druid forms for them would be really cool and would explain their druidic powers nicely.

[Nightshade711]

I don’t think Blizzard would ruin the class fantasy by doing something as nonsensical as that.

Did Goblins mechanical totems ruin shaman class fantasy? No.

[Triceron]

I am not really sure about new class, but I think "crypt lord" would make really cool Undead druid class theme. Bug druid forms for them would be really cool and would explain their druidic powers nicely.

Agreed! Hoping Blizzard catches on to the idea.

[Teriz]

Nowhere foes the lore stipulate this. You'te literally making up arbitrary restrictions.

It applies to every playable Druid, and every Druid I’m aware of.

How is it not? You're inplying one spec in one form, another spec in an entirely different form. And how do you enter these forms? Through the same methods a Druid would - shapeshifting.

Evokers would be shapeshifting more than this class would. Are we to believe that Evoker is a class centered around shapeshifting?

From the elemental plane of fire? Er, brush up on your lore.

An elemental beast is still a beast.

Playable Nerubian race? Sure, possible. Could even be one that takes humanoid form, like you suggest.

As a class? Hardly. Customizations would be more plausible, like Dark Ranger during Shadowlands.

Nah. There’s a nerubian hero that Blizzard can easily base a class around. They didn’t do Dark Rangers because it was too close to the Hunter class.

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Oh, so you've changed your mind? Because these used to be your position:


With this one in particular:

Where’s the mind change? Those quotes all say the same thing.

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Did Goblins mechanical totems ruin shaman class fantasy? No.

Shaman make their totems, so a goblin making tech totems make sense.

[Ielenia]

Where’s the mind change? Those quotes all say the same thing.

You before today: "Blizzard has made it clear that Dark Rangers are just undead Hunters."
You today: "Blizzard hasn't made it clear that Dark Rangers are just undead Hunters".

It's a literal 180º turn in your position. What changed your mind?

[Triceron]

It applies to every playable Druid, and every Druid I’m aware of.

So... Are you admitting ignorance and headcanon?

Druids of the Flame don't use nature magic, nor do they use natural Fire.

Druids have surpassed the definitions confining them to 'nature' and 'beasts'. They have extended well into the supernatural and unnatural, with the common connection between all Druids being that they change shape.

Even the Troll Loa Priests who take up Wild God forms have been retroactively applied to the Druid class, which is exactly how and why we have Raptari. They are literally part of the Druid class because they are shapeshifters, and their class lore is all centered on Loa granting blessings.

I would love for Druids to retain the Night Elf lore of 'Nature and Beasts', but WoW has progressed well beyond that, with more to be changed.

Evokers would be shapeshifting more than this class would. Are we to believe that Evoker is a class centered around shapeshifting?

Their visage forms are part of their draconic nature. They aren't using these forms to perform a role, whereas you are specifically designing a new class that does use forms for specific roles. Humanoid for spellcasting, Bug form for Tanking and combat.

That is effectively what a Druid is known for. No different than if you argued having a Necromancer that summons would be redundant because we have classes that already summon, particularly Undead. It can be lumped into those class concepts, right? You wouldn't argue in favour of a separate Necromancer class just because there are a couple missing spells here and there, right?

An elemental beast is still a beast.

An Undead beast is still a beast too.

Nah. There’s a nerubian hero that Blizzard can easily base a class around. They didn’t do Dark Rangers because it was too close to the Hunter class.

And Druid having a Crypt Lord form for tanking satisfies the exact way you designed the Crypt Lord tanking spec for this Humanoid spellcaster class.

[Teriz]

So... Are you admitting ignorance and headcanon?

Druids of the Flame don't use nature magic, nor do they use natural Fire.

So you really think shapeshifting into an elemental beast is a huge step from shapeshifting into a wicker beast, or a magical beast in general?

Druids have surpassed the definitions confining them to 'nature' and 'beasts'. They have extended well into the supernatural and unnatural, with the common connection between all Druids being that they change shape.

Even the Troll Loa Priests who take up Wild God forms have been retroactively applied to the Druid class, which is exactly how and why we have Raptari. They are literally part of the Druid class because they are shapeshifters, and their class lore is all centered on Loa granting blessings.

I would love for Druids to retain the Night Elf lore of 'Nature and Beasts', but WoW has progressed well beyond that, with more to be changed.

Don’t the Raptari Druids just turn into dinosaurs, which are beasts? Where’s this huge departure from nature and beasts that you are talking about?

Their visage forms are part of their draconic nature. They aren't using these forms to perform a role, whereas you are specifically designing a new class that does use forms for specific roles. Humanoid for spellcasting, Bug form for Tanking and combat.

That is effectively what a Druid is known for. No different than if you argued having a Necromancer that summons would be redundant because we have classes that already summon, particularly Undead. It can be lumped into those class concepts, right? You wouldn't argue in favour of a separate Necromancer class just because there are a couple missing spells here and there, right?

Wouldn’t Evokers be performing a role via their Dracthyr form?

An Undead beast is still a beast too.

Uh but Crypt Lords aren’t beasts, they’re Nerubians.

And Druid having a Crypt Lord form for tanking satisfies the exact way you designed the Crypt Lord tanking spec for this Humanoid spellcaster class.

Well it doesn’t because Crypt Lords aren’t beasts or Druids. Crypt Lords having Druid abilities doesn’t make sense. You repeating inaccurate information over and over again will never make it true.

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You before today: "Blizzard has made it clear that Dark Rangers are just undead Hunters."
You today: "Blizzard hasn't made it clear that Dark Rangers are just undead Hunters".

It's a literal 180º turn in your position. What changed your mind?

Sorry man, I have no idea what you’re talking about here.

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I am not really sure about new class, but I think "crypt lord" would make really cool Undead druid class theme. Bug druid forms for them would be really cool and would explain their druidic powers nicely.

But they wouldn’t have any undead abilities. It would all be Druid abilities.

[Triceron]

So you really think shapeshifting into an elemental beast is a huge step from shapeshifting into a wicker beast, or a magical beast in general?

It's a small step, is what I'm saying.

The same small step it would take to turn into a hulking humanoid Werebear, or an Undead Nerubian Beetle.

Don’t the Raptari Druids just turn into dinosaurs, which are beasts? Where’s this huge departure from nature and beasts that you are talking about?

They derive their powers from Loa and worship of Gonk. They don't use nature magic at all in the lore. They don't turn into other beasts. Their Worshipping shapeshifters are still considered Druids.

Wouldn’t Evokers be performing a role via their Dracthyr form?

That is their natural form. They aren't taking a form for a specific role; all roles are performed in their natural Drac'thyr state. That isn't Druidism, nor the facets of a Shapeshifting class.

Uh but Crypt Lords aren’t beasts, they’re Nerubians.

Neither is a Werebear, and Blizzard doesn't really care about the nuance in distinction. Werebears are Humanoid, like Worgen. Yet a Druid is still capable of taking this non-bestial form.

Well it doesn’t because Crypt Lords aren’t beasts or Druids. You repeating inaccurate information over and over again will never make it true.

It doesn't matter if it is or not since there is no stipulation of them having to be beasts.

You even had to amend your argument by including 'nature' for Ancient Protectors, and even then it's not entirely true when we have Druid forms resembling undead wicker constructs and elemental creatures from the Elemental plane of Fire.

This becomes even more apparant once Blizzard opens the floodgates for Void Elves, Dark Iron, Lightforged, Forsaken snd Mechagnomes. We will have elemental, mecha and undead variants of different creatures, with potentially no lore to explain any of them

[Ielenia]

Sorry man, I have no idea what you’re talking about here.

Are you really going to be that dishonest? I've literally shown how your position in the past was that "Blizzard says dark rangers are just undead hunters" and now, suddenly (probably because it suits your narrative) you're claiming that "there's no lore that says dark rangers are just undead hunters"?

Are you really going to claim ignorance of your own position, even after it was shown to you?

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Neither is a Werebear, and Blizzard doesn't really care about the nuance in distinction. Werebears are Humanoid, like Worgen.

Worse: moonkins are also humanoids, not beasts. At least according to the game's classification.

[Teriz]

It's a small step, is what I'm saying.

The same small step it would take to turn into a hulking humanoid Werebear, or an Undead Nerubian Beetle.

Uh Were-beasts have been a part of druidism for a long time. Worgen came from Druids. We also had a Werecat form in WoD. What's so special about a were bear?

They derive their powers from Loa and worship of Gonk. They don't use nature magic at all in the lore. They don't turn into other beasts. Their Worshipping shapeshifters are still considered Druids.

Uh, aren't Loas like Gonk considered Wild Gods, and thus Nature-based? I mean he's a freaking raptor.

That is their natural form. They aren't taking a form for a specific role; all roles are performed in their natural Drac'thyr state. That isn't Druidism, nor the facets of a Shapeshifting class.

So if the Nerubian class' monster form was their natural form, and all three specs utilized that same form, you wouldn't have an issue?

Neither is a Werebear, and Blizzard doesn't really care about the nuance in distinction. Werebears are Humanoid, like Worgen. Yet a Druid is still capable of taking this non-bestial form.

Uh again, Worgen (Werewolves) came about because of Druids. We also had a Werecat form during WoD, so Werebears isn't really anything new or novel in for the Druid class. It's baffling how you believe that were-beasts are something new or novel, and somehow lead to being able to turn into Nerubians.

It doesn't matter if it is or not since there is no stipulation of them having to be beasts.

You even had to amend your argument by including 'nature' for Ancient Protectors, and even then it's not entirely true when we have Druid forms resembling undead wicker constructs and elemental creatures from the Elemental plane of Fire.

Uh I didn't amend anything. Nature is also part of the Druid concept, I didn't think I needed to mention that to a Druid main.

This becomes even more apparant once Blizzard opens the floodgates for Void Elves, Dark Iron, Lightforged, Forsaken snd Mechagnomes. We will have elemental, mecha and undead variants of different creatures, with potentially no lore to explain any of them

That's pure speculation on your part. When/if that happens, you'll have a stronger foundation to rest your argument on.

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Are you really going to be that dishonest? I've literally shown how your position in the past was that "Blizzard says dark rangers are just undead hunters" and now, suddenly (probably because it suits your narrative) you're claiming that "there's no lore that says dark rangers are just undead hunters"?

Are you really going to claim ignorance of your own position, even after it was shown to you?

You took my quote out of context and just went on a tangent. So yeah, I'm not being dishonest here; I honestly have no idea what you're talking about.

To put this to rest; Yes, Undead Hunters = Dark Rangers. They always have.

[Triceron]

Uh Were-beasts have been a part of druidism for a long time. Worgen came from Druids. We also had a Werecat form in WoD. What's so special about a were bear?

It's a humanoid, same as Werecat form. Not a Beast.

Uh, aren't Loas like Gonk considered Wild Gods, and thus Nature-based? I mean he's a freaking raptor.

Druidism isn't derived from just any wild god. It was originally the teachings of Cenarius. Then it was broadly adapted to covering any totemic animal creature. Then further expanded to cover Elemental users, as long as their forms resemble beasts. Also to cover the basic use of Sun magic, of which certain Paladins derive their use of the Light. Oh, and of course the duality of Death magic as a part of the 'cycle of life'.

Druidism has become more than just beasts and nature. Even Shadowlands has incorporated quite a bit of Death-related themes to Druidism.

So if the Nerubian class' monster form was their natural form, and all three specs utilized that same form, you wouldn't have an issue?

None whatsoever. Like I said, the concept of Crypt Lords does not have any connection to sexy spider forms and shapeshifting. It's unnecessary and contrived.

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That's pure speculation on your part. When/if that happens, you'll have a stronger foundation to rest your argument on.

Which part? The part where they're eventually giving all races Druids?

[PrivateSmiley]

With the advent of the race/class combination brought in by the Evoker class, Blizzard has opened the door to some potentially interesting future classes. One such concept is the Crypt Lord, a hero from WC3 that also appeared in HotS as Anub ‘Arak. This race/class could be a feature for a possible Azjol-Nerub expansion.

A huge part of the problem with bringing this race/class into the game is that they’re huge beetle/spider creatures. However, thanks to Dracthyr, it is conceivable that Blizzard could give them a more mortal appearance and reserve their more terrifying form for combat purposes.

For example, Blizzard could give them a form like this via magic;

It is large speculation to think that Blizzard is automatically going to do another class/race combo like Evoker.

and let's all be real here, how many years has Teriz been beating the NOT ALL WARCRAFT 3 HEROES ARE IN WOW YET drum, and yet should any of us be surprised that here we are again?

We should not. at least it's not a goddamn Tinker.

I've lost brain cells reading this thread.

[Teriz]

It's a humanoid, same as Werecat form. Not a Beast.

It comes from a beast form though. The Werewolf (Worgen) form for example started off as a Wolf form, but due to its ferocity, was merged with other magic to create a half humanoid form to bring it under control. I'm pretty sure the Werecat form (Claws of Shiverallah) also had similar beginnings.

So yeah, we're still talking about beast and nature here.

Druidism isn't derived from just any wild god. It was originally the teachings of Cenarius. Then it was broadly adapted to covering any totemic animal creature. Then further expanded to cover Elemental users, as long as their forms resemble beasts. Also to cover the basic use of Sun magic, of which certain Paladins derive their use of the Light. Oh, and of course the duality of Death magic as a part of the 'cycle of life'.

Druidism has become more than just beasts and nature. Even Shadowlands has incorporated quite a bit of Death-related themes to Druidism.

Okay, but that doesn't change the fact that the Loa the Zandalari Druids worship is a raptor, and the Dinosaurs they turn into are beasts. There really isn't a massive departure from standard Druid lore here.

None whatsoever. Like I said, the concept of Crypt Lords does not have any connection to sexy spider forms and shapeshifting. It's unnecessary and contrived.

In order to have a playable race in WoW, you have to have a form that can utilize equip-able gear and use weapons. You also have to have a race that has attractive options for players. So yeah, those forms are completely necessary.

Which part? The part where they're eventually giving all races Druids?

When was that announced?

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It is large speculation to think that Blizzard is automatically going to do another class/race combo like Evoker.

There's zero reason for them to stop at the Dracthyr Evoker. Especially if other class possibilities can benefit from it.

That said, is this speculation? Of course it is.

[Triceron]

It comes from a beast form though. The Werewolf (Worgen) form for example started off as a Wolf form, but due to its ferocity, was merged with other magic to create a half humanoid form to bring it under control. I'm pretty sure the Werecat form (Claws of Shiverallah) also had similar beginnings.

Started as, no longer is.

Just like an undead being started as a living one, would no longer be considered living.

Okay, but that doesn't change the fact that the Loa the Zandalari Druids worship is a raptor, and the Dinosaurs they turn into are beasts. There really isn't a massive departure from standard Druid lore here.

Druids source many things. Gods, beasts, elementals, undead. Crypt Lords wouldn't be a massive departure either. They were once living creatures as well, and a Druid would merely adopt their forms for battle. They mimic physiology, that is their schtick.

In order to have a playable race in WoW, you have to have a form that can utilize equip-able gear and use weapons. You also have to have a race that has attractive options for players. So yeah, those forms are completely necessary.

Which is why the concept is less likely than merely applying customizations, which can be implemented any time

Feel welcome to wait for it though.

When was that announced?

Er, have you missed the memo on all the new race/class combos opening up? They talked about this and their goals for opening them more after they dealt with some of the narrative stuff in DF

https://www.wowhead.com/news/wow-con...-10-0-7-331876

Class Race Combos
They want to make sure there are narrative reasons for races to become classes. But gameplay-wise they are trying to open up more race-class combos, after they take story for narrative continuity.

After Warlock, Paladin and Druid are the only non-Hero classes left.

[Teriz]

You're aware that the aqir and mantid are nature based in their natural forms and were corrupted and changed by the old gods, yes?

Well no. The Aqir arose from the organic matter seeping from the old gods. So they weren't changed by the old gods, they're born from the old gods, which makes them not nature-based. They served the Old Gods because that's the ones who gave them life. The other race that emerged from the old gods were the n'raqi which are the faceless ones. Spoiler alert; They're not nature-based either.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Aqir

Erego... fhese are undead druid forms and smut fantasies.

Well no because Nerubians aren't undead by nature. There are Nerubians still alive and fighting the undead and Yogg Saron's forces in Northrend.

As for smut fantasies, you must be a puritan if you view something like this;



as smut.

[Ielenia]

There's zero reason for them to stop at the Dracthyr Evoker. Especially if other class possibilities can benefit from it.

How about variety? Always getting "monstrous race that uses magical shapeshifting to blend with the factions" over and over and always getting single-race/single-class combos would get old very fast.

People want variety, people want options. That is one big reason for to "stop" at the dracthyr evoker.

[Teriz]

Started as, no longer is.

Just like an undead being started as a living one, would no longer be considered living.

It no longer being considered a beast doesn't alter the fact that it still came from a beast, just altered via magic.

Again, quite a leap to go from that to being able to transform into a Nerubian spider lord like Anub'Arak.

Druids source many things. Gods, beasts, elementals, undead. Crypt Lords wouldn't be a massive departure either. They were once living creatures as well, and a Druid would merely adopt their forms for battle. They mimic physiology, that is their schtick.

Do we have an example of Druids shapeshifting into undead creatures? I'm pretty sure that's a no-no within Druidism, and more than likely not possible, since undead isn't nature. Death is, undeath is not.

Which is why the concept is less likely than merely applying customizations, which can be implemented any time

Feel welcome to wait for it though.

Why would Blizzard oppose giving a playable race an attractive form? Especially if the concept is well known within gaming circles.

Er, have you missed the memo on all the new race/class combos opening up? They talked about this and their goals for opening them more after they dealt with some of the narrative stuff in DF

https://www.wowhead.com/news/wow-con...-10-0-7-331876

Class Race Combos
They want to make sure there are narrative reasons for races to become classes. But gameplay-wise they are trying to open up more race-class combos, after they take story for narrative continuity.

After Warlock, Paladin and Druid are the only non-Hero classes left.

Ah, so it wasn't announced. That's what I thought. BTW, you're also forgetting Shaman, and alongside Paladins and Druids, I wouldn't count on those classes going to all races. Those three classes have race-specific abilities that make them harder to expand to every race.

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How about variety? Always getting "monstrous race that uses magical shapeshifting to blend with the factions" over and over and always getting single-race/single-class combos would get old very fast.

People want variety, people want options. That is one big reason for to "stop" at the dracthyr evoker.

No one said this would be the next class in WoW. Something like this might not pop up for several years, if at all.

[Triceron]

It no longer being considered a beast doesn't alter the fact that it still came from a beast, just altered via magic.

Again, quite a leap to go from that to being able to transform into a Nerubian spider lord like Anub'Arak.

Again, if such cosmetics can be apllied to elementals and humanoids like werebears and flame cats, then Crypt Lords can be a natural progression of cosmetics given that there is enough of a reason to.

Do we have an example of Druids shapeshifting into undead creatures? I'm pretty sure that's a no-no within Druidism, and more than likely not possible, since undead isn't nature. Death is, undeath is not.

We don't need examples. Blizzard just has to make it happen.

Did we ever have examples of Druids using elemental beast forms before Cata? Humanoid forms before Legion? Dinosaur forms before BFA?

Why would Blizzard oppose giving a playable race an attractive form? Especially if the concept is well known within gaming circles.

Same reason Tauren and Trolls and Gnomes don't have beautiful glamour forms. I mean, should they look like Elves too?