Crypt Lord class now possible thanks to Dracthyr Evokers?

[Celista]

I thought this concept was silly when I read the thread title. However, I do like some of the racials you have come up with after reading your post. Especially true form, traverse and burrow.

I think they should be class abilities rather than racials though...why not have them all rather than having to choose one?

[Teriz]

Way back when we discussed druid customization, when I pointed out how Blizzard does make "exclusive stuff" to a single race.

So a completely different discussion that has nothing to do with this one.

Do you even know what "moving goalpost" even means? And yes, of course it's not all mechanics. Otherwise all melee classes are "mechanically the same" because they all swing a weapon, and all spellcaster classes are "mechanically the same" because they cast spells.

I know, which is why your statement on mechanics was so ridiculous.

Actually, the druid is pretty much unique in that regard. It's the only class that requires to be transformed to perform their functions.

Not for healing.

It's just an ability name. Just like one of the defensive abilities of the Guardian druid is called "Ironfur" despite the zandalari druid's guardian form having no fur whatsoever.

Except Druids are also effected by spells that only affect beast, like the aforementioned Hibernate and track beast. So no, it’s not just an ability name.

And the Druids of the Flame as well? Y'know, the same ones that can transform into fire cats? The same fire cats druids can transform now?

We don’t have any Druid of the flame abilities, just the appearance from the staff.

Except we're not talking about what Ion has said. We're talking about you stating opinions as facts.

What I’m saying is that the idea of Druid forms of Nerubians, Jinyu, and Naga is so ridiculous that even Ion would shoot it down immediately.

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I thought this concept was silly when I read the thread title. However, I do like some of the racials you have come up with after reading your post. Especially true form, traverse and burrow.

Thanks for giving the concept a chance. Hopefully you’ll like it even more when I’m done editing it.

I think they should be class abilities rather than racials though...why not have them all rather than having to choose one?

Interesting suggestion. I’ll look into it.

[Ielenia]

So a completely different discussion that has nothing to do with this one.

Except it doesn't matter? We're talking about how you pick and choose when scope matters and when it doesn't. It was a discussion within this very thread where you denied that scope matters.

I know, which is why your statement on mechanics was so ridiculous.

Yeah, you have no idea what "moving goalposts" means.

Not for healing.

The point still stands.

Except Druids are also effected by spells that only affect beast, like the aforementioned Hibernate and track beast. So no, it’s not just an ability name.

And that is just a game mechanic. After all, said abilities (hibernate and track beast and others) also work on constructs of dead wicker and dead vines, i.e. the Kul'tiran druids.

We don’t have any Druid of the flame abilities, just the appearance from the staff.

But we can take the form of the Firelands' druids' fire cat form, which goes a long way for representation. And abilities don't really need to really be 1:1, especially since Blizzard realized that they don't need to make an entire thing out of a concept to make it viable. For example: giving Wildhammer customization options to the normal dwarves seems to have sufficed for most people wanting to play as a Wildhammer dwarf.

What I’m saying is that the idea of Druid forms of Nerubians, Jinyu, and Naga is so ridiculous that even Ion would shoot it down immediately.

And that is your opinion, not fact. You literally don't have any idea if Ion would actually shoot it down or say "... who knows?"

[Teriz]

Except it doesn't matter? We're talking about how you pick and choose when scope matters and when it doesn't. It was a discussion within this very thread where you denied that scope matters.

Because it was a completely different topic.....

Yeah, you have no idea what "moving goalposts" means.

Its when you say this;

If it "works mechanically like a druid" then "mechanically" it's a druid.

Then when that's challenged you say this;

One: those are specs, not classes.

Then when challenged again you say this;

Oh, so now scale doesn't matter?

Then when challenged on that, you say this;

And mages, priests, warlocks, MW monks, resto druids, resto shamans, and holy paladins have mana. Sharing resources doesn't mean they're the same thing.

Which contradicted your original argument (since resources are mechanics);

If it "works mechanically like a druid" then "mechanically" it's a druid.

In other words, you moved the goalposts so much, you circled back and contradicted yourself.

The point still stands.

So Druids DON'T need to shapeshift to perform their functions, they just need to shapeshift to perform certain functions. Correct?

Just FYI, this class idea requires you to shapeshift to perform ALL of your role functions.

And that is just a game mechanic. After all, said abilities (hibernate and track beast and others) also work on constructs of dead wicker and dead vines, i.e. the Kul'tiran druids.

Oh? Can you list some other non-beast constructs that are somehow effected by spells that only effect beasts?

But we can take the form of the Firelands' druids' fire cat form, which goes a long way for representation. And abilities don't really need to really be 1:1, especially since Blizzard realized that they don't need to make an entire thing out of a concept to make it viable. For example: giving Wildhammer customization options to the normal dwarves seems to have sufficed for most people wanting to play as a Wildhammer dwarf.

Well I said I had no problem with Druids getting Druid of the Nightmare or Druid of the Fang forms. That would make more sense than them getting a Crypt Lord form. They wouldn't get any Nightmare of Fang abilities however, and that's the benefit of the Crypt Lord class concept; Giving players the ability to utilize venoms, webs, spiders, parasites, etc. Kind of like a Zerg-style of gameplay in WoW. It's something Druids can never provide for players.

And that is your opinion, not fact. You literally don't have any idea if Ion would actually shoot it down or say "... who knows?"

I'm quite sure he would. I mean what's next? Do Druids shapeshift into Pirates?

[Nightshade711]

Not for healing.

Tree of life (classic)
And Incarnation Tree of Life (live)

What I’m saying is that the idea of Druid forms of Nerubians, Jinyu, and Naga is so ridiculous that even Ion would shoot it down immediately.

We don’t have a sect of druids in lore that can turn into Naga and Jinyu, or even anything using their skeletons.

Unlike Nerubians, where we have a sect of druids using their models for one of their forms.


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Now that I think about it, it makes sense for Druids of the Nightmare to have Nerubian forms, given that both the Nightmare and the Nerubians have a connection to the old gods.

[Teriz]

Tree of life (classic)
And Incarnation Tree of Life (live)

We're talking about retail, not classic. And ToL is a talent that you don't have to even use to be an effective healer.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

That wasn’t an Arrakoa.

While it’s not Druids have been able to shift into Saberon in the past who are also an intelligent race so the point would stand that it’s possible.

[Nymrohd]

I can't wait for the Firelord class. That's why Smolderon went missing, because the players will ALL get to be Ragnaros! And ofc Denathrius will come back as the leader of the Dreadlord race/class cause why not.
Or maybe it's just stupid. . .

[Teriz]

While it’s not Druids have been able to shift into Saberon in the past who are also an intelligent race so the point would stand that it’s possible.

If I remember correctly, the lore didn't state that they actually turned into Saberons, just half-man and half cat creatures.

That probably explains why it was one and done after WoD.

[Syegfryed]

Also, "cryp lord class" where you have a humanoid form, that its just an elf, that turns into a humanoid skinny insect, and only have two specs, can't wait for it!

[Teriz]

I can't wait for the Firelord class. That's why Smolderon went missing, because the players will ALL get to be Ragnaros! And ofc Denathrius will come back as the leader of the Dreadlord race/class cause why not.
Or maybe it's just stupid. . .

What's stupid is comparing Nerubians to elementals and dreadlords.

[Kithelle]

What's stupid is comparing Nerubians to elementals and dreadlords.

Ehh I think he's just lashing out....you didn't make the male manly enough, because every male needs to look like he eats a whole bottle of steroids every week...and you didn't make the females female enough, her breasts need to be at least the size of honeydew melons

Because even bug people have to look humanoid and sexy to them

[Nymrohd]

Ehh I think he's just lashing out....you didn't make the male manly enough, because every male needs to look like he eats a whole bottle of steroids every week...and you didn't make the females female enough, her breasts need to be at least the size of honeydew melons

Because even bug people have to look humanoid and sexy to them

The concept is to take WC3 Hero Units and make them into playable classes. Has been the modus operandi for Teriz for years; pulling from WC3 and backing his argument with HotS or Hearthstone presence; it's behind most of the Tinker concept and was behind the Drake/evoker concept (I had a very similar concept as well, again pulled from Wrathion in HS Mercenaries having a hybrid form). Grab some of the art they made for those games and show that to make it seem more professional.
Well Crypt Lord is one of the Scourge Hero Units next to Dreadlords. Dreadlords have had a very recent arc in WoW with Denathrius, they have both male and female models, a home world (shattered but still there) and while they could easily be seen as other classes (Warlocks, Rogues, Mages, Warriors) they also have a very specific skill set of their own tied to their pseudo-vampiric qualities. The analogy is pretty damn perfect to the Crypt Lord concept, heck it is far more relevant to the way the game's recent stories and people are likely to be more excited to play vampiric gargoyles than ugly driders.

[Ginnung]

Well that's more to @Cynical Asshole's point; You have to appeal to the masses, so if Blizzard does decide to go this route, they would need a lane to go down that would allow them to create the spider-race, but also make it appealing to as wide a swath of players as possible. While we have never seen Nerubians utilize a humanoid form, that doesn't mean they can't do it, since they are obviously adept at ancient magic. If some decide they want to live among the mortal races and not cause too much of a stir, I could imagine that like dragons, they would assume a more "acceptable" appearance.

Also for players who aren't looking for a "spider waifu" this is probably more up their alley;



Pretty much an exoskeleton version.

That still just looks like a guy wearing generic fantasy armor.

[Teriz]

That still just looks like a guy wearing generic fantasy armor.

Generic fantasy armor has six 8 arms and 8 eyes?

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The analogy is pretty damn perfect to the Crypt Lord concept, heck it is far more relevant to the way the game's recent stories and people are likely to be more excited to play vampiric gargoyles than ugly driders.

I disagree. The "pretty vampire" trope is tired and worn out. Also if you want to play as a pretty vampire, just roll a Blood/Void Elf and play a Blood DK or a Shadow Priest. Also we already have a winged gargoyle-like race in the Dracthyr. Are we going to give Dreadlords the ability to Soar and Glide? Finally, Shadowlands pretty much ruined anything connected to it, including the Dreadlords.

As for the "ugly" Nerubians, Blizzard can make them pretty if they so desire. The "Sexy Spider-girl" trope is quite popular, and you already have concepts like this;



That can easily be translated into WoW and would actually be a new and novel way to play the game, since that thematic does not currently exist in the class lineup.

However, we also shouldn't discount the fact that there are players who want to play as grotesque monster people, which a nerubian race/class would also allow.

[Nightshade711]

The concept is to take WC3 Hero Units and make them into playable classes. Has been the modus operandi for Teriz for years; pulling from WC3 and backing his argument with HotS or Hearthstone presence; it's behind most of the Tinker concept and was behind the Drake/evoker concept (I had a very similar concept as well, again pulled from Wrathion in HS Mercenaries having a hybrid form). Grab some of the art they made for those games and show that to make it seem more professional.

Well Crypt Lord is one of the Scourge Hero Units next to Dreadlords. Dreadlords have had a very recent arc in WoW with Denathrius, they have both male and female models, a home world (shattered but still there) and while they could easily be seen as other classes (Warlocks, Rogues, Mages, Warriors) they also have a very specific skill set of their own tied to their pseudo-vampiric qualities. The analogy is pretty damn perfect to the Crypt Lord concept, heck it is far more relevant to the way the game's recent stories and people are likely to be more excited to play vampiric gargoyles than ugly driders.

Dreadlords I think would fit the bill for a next race/class quite well. FAR better than a crypt lord race/class. (Besides I’ve actually seen people at least ask for a Dreadlord race)
Especially with Shadowlands reintroducing them.

Also, Dreadlords were actually planned to be a race in Vanilla originally, but at the time blizzard didn’t have the time/resources with the tech they had to properly implement the whole “transformation/disguise” aspect of it.
But now they do have the technology, they could honestly just bake the transformation/disguise into a racial that works like the Atomic Recalibrator toy. (That way it’s not another Worgen/Dracthyr thing and they wouldn’t be limited to one race)


Don’t forget that Dreadlords could probably be any other class given their whole thing of “infiltrating the other cosmic forces”.
Lothraxion is a good example of a Dreadlord using the light.

[Nymrohd]

Dreadlords I think would fit the bill for a next race/class quite well. FAR better than a crypt lord race/class. (Besides I’ve actually seen people at least ask for a Dreadlord race)
Especially with Shadowlands reintroducing them.

Also, Dreadlords were actually planned to be a race in Vanilla originally, but at the time blizzard didn’t have the time/resources with the tech they had to properly implement the whole “transformation/disguise” aspect of it.
But now they do have the technology, they could honestly just bake the transformation/disguise into a racial that works like the Atomic Recalibrator toy. (That way it’s not another Worgen/Dracthyr thing and they wouldn’t be limited to one race)


Don’t forget that Dreadlords could probably be any other class given their whole thing of “infiltrating the other cosmic forces”.
Lothraxion is a good example of a Dreadlord using the light.

I am not at all saying that they would fit the bill. I am just saying, every argument for Crypt Lord could be made for Dreadlord and they would find VASTLY greater acceptance by the playerbase without completely changing the race from spider people into sexy anime waifus with a spider theme. And yeah they could have their own racial Dreadlord class plus be a member of any other class as well (add lightforged versions for paladin I guess?)
Still doubt either is happening any time soon.

[Teriz]

Dreadlords I think would fit the bill for a next race/class quite well. FAR better than a crypt lord race/class. (Besides I’ve actually seen people at least ask for a Dreadlord race)
Especially with Shadowlands reintroducing them.

After Demon Hunters and Dracthyr, I don’t see another race or class with wings popping up ever again.

Also as I said before, Shadowlands completely wrecked their concept, and we’re never going back to their homeland.

[Nightshade711]

After Demon Hunters and Dracthyr, I don’t see another race or class with wings popping up ever again.

Also as I said before, Shadowlands completely wrecked their concept, and we’re never going back to their homeland.

After Druids, Shamans, Evokers, Worgen, etc. I don’t see another race or class with shapeshifting (or a visage form) popping up ever again.

The fact that we wrecked their homeland could be a reason why Dreadlords pop back up. They could have the story themes of the vanilla Forsaken with the whole “only ‘allying’ with the factions as a means to an end”
Which makes sense, we’ve done a better job disrupting the cosmos than anyone.

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Didn’t they also confirm in Exploring Northrend that Azol’nerub was still in ruins and that there were only a few alive Nerubians left

[Teriz]

After Druids, Shamans, Evokers, Worgen, etc. I don’t see another race or class with shapeshifting (or a visage form) popping up ever again.

Why not? All of those offer shapeshifting in different ways, and this class concept is no different.

Meanwhile, Dreadlords are pretty much a mix of DHs and Dracthyr.

The fact that we wrecked their homeland could be a reason why Dreadlords pop back up. They could have the story themes of the vanilla Forsaken with the whole “only ‘allying’ with the factions as a means to an end”
Which makes sense, we’ve done a better job disrupting the cosmos than anyone.

Again, no one wants to return to Shadowlands.

Didn’t they also confirm in Exploring Northrend that Azol’nerub was still in ruins and that there were only a few alive Nerubians left

All the more reason for Nerubians to be more open to interacting with the surface races. Between the rampaging scourge and Yogg Soron’s minions, their back is against the wall.