Crypt Lord class now possible thanks to Dracthyr Evokers?

[Ielenia]

Because it was a completely different topic.....

It doesn't matter if it was a different topic, though.

Its when you say this;

Then when that's challenged you say this;

Then when challenged again you say this;

Then when challenged on that, you say this;

Which contradicted your original argument (since resources are mechanics);

In other words, you moved the goalposts so much, you circled back and contradicted yourself.

Except I didn't, and you'd see that if you kept track. You specifically said "it works mechanically like the class" and that equates both as a whole. As in, the group of mechanics the druid class possesses that identify it as a druid. And one singular mechanic does not make a whole class.

What you did by the end was akin to saying that a dog and a chair are "mechanically the same" because both share one characteristic: both have four legs.

So Druids DON'T need to shapeshift to perform their functions, they just need to shapeshift to perform certain functions. Correct?

Just FYI, this class idea requires you to shapeshift to perform ALL of your role functions.

It's still the druid class with a reskin. It's akin to make a carbon copy of the warrior class but say both ideas are completely different in so many levels because its tank spec uses two shields instead of weapon and shield.

Oh? Can you list some other non-beast constructs that are somehow effected by spells that only effect beasts?

How about becoming an elemental? Thanks to their Legion artifact weapons, they could become bear-shaped stone elementals, and cat-shaped treants.

Well I said I had no problem with Druids getting Druid of the Nightmare or Druid of the Fang forms. That would make more sense than them getting a Crypt Lord form. They wouldn't get any Nightmare of Fang abilities however, and that's the benefit of the Crypt Lord class concept; Giving players the ability to utilize venoms, webs, spiders, parasites, etc. Kind of like a Zerg-style of gameplay in WoW. It's something Druids can never provide for players.

They could of Blizzard adds glyphs that customize how abilities look. Cyclone, entanglement and Ursol's vortex can become web-based, for example.

I'm quite sure he would.

Then ask him. And let us know what he says.

I mean what's next? Do Druids shapeshift into Pirates?

Well, their Feral form resembles the rogue gameplay a little bit, and one of the rogue's specs is (partly) based on pirates, so in a technical, roundabout way druids can already shapeshift into pirates.

[Nightshade711]

Why not? All of those offer shapeshifting in different ways, and this class concept is no different.

Is it really that different when you say their shapeshifting is “mechanically like druids”

Meanwhile, Dreadlords are pretty much a mix of DHs and Dracthyr.

Ironic.

Again, no one wants to return to Shadowlands.

No one wanted to return to Draenor yet we got the Mag’har.
Denathrius is widely accepted as the best part of Shadowlands and plenty of people want to see him return.

Whereas the Nerubians don’t really have anyone like that. Nobody really cares about them.

[Kathranis]

After Demon Hunters and Dracthyr, I don’t see another race or class with wings popping up ever again.

Also as I said before, Shadowlands completely wrecked their concept, and we’re never going back to their homeland.

The Dreadlords are definitely going to return at some point. Denathrius was really well received and they made sure he survived. He and the Winter Queen will probably be the two major characters from Shadowlands that get carried forward in a meaningful way.

That said, seriously doubt they'd be playable since they're firmly in the villain slot, unless they did something really interesting and had the player fill the role of a double agent that's infiltrating the Horde and Alliance. Which could actually be pretty cool.

If they were to bring in a necromantic class, I think Lich Necromancer would be pretty solid. But, realistically, how long will it be before we have another death themed expansion? Probably a while.

Also hard to say whether this race-class combo thing is going to be the standard going forward. I half expect them to eventually just open drakthyr up to other classes and make other races available as visage options for Evoker.

Since they always tie new races and classes into the theme of an expansion, if we're looking for new classes or races, probably best to look at what content is being set up for future storylines. Light, Life, and Void are the cosmic forces likely to get focused on in the near future.

Ethereal would be pretty cool, to me. Would like them to have most classes available, but a new class that uniquely incorporates their physiology could be interesting.

I also don't think they need to go the route of giving every class two or three specs, though knowing they'll have to design unique tier sets kind of requires they get as much mileage out of every new class as possible. Can't have three new classes with one spec each if each needs unique armor art every tier.

[Nightshade711]

I also don't think they need to go the route of giving every class two or three specs, though knowing they'll have to design unique tier sets kind of requires they get as much mileage out of every new class as possible. Can't have three new classes with one spec each if each needs unique armor art every tier.

I think a “one spec” class could be an interesting concept if they operate (sort of) like old school DKs.
Role would be based on talents and/or certain things similar to the old DK presences.

But I don’t see that happening with “Crypt lords” or Dreadlords. Maybe something like Tinker could do it, but it wouldn’t last long before they’d just split it into the separate specs sorta like Feral/Guardian.

[Nymrohd]

I think a “one spec” class could be an interesting concept if they operate (sort of) like old school DKs.
Role would be based on talents and/or certain things similar to the old DK presences.

But I don’t see that happening with “Crypt lords” or Dreadlords. Maybe something like Tinker could do it, but it wouldn’t last long before they’d just split it into the separate specs sorta like Feral/Guardian.

Meh, one spec class concepts can probably be rolled into an existing class as fourth specs.

[Teriz]

It doesn't matter if it was a different topic, though.

If the argument doesn’t apply to the old topic, it definitively matters.

Except I didn't, and you'd see that if you kept track. You specifically said "it works mechanically like the class" and that equates both as a whole. As in, the group of mechanics the druid class possesses that identify it as a druid. And one singular mechanic does not make a whole class.

I was clearly only talking about shapeshifting. Shapeshifting is not the whole of the Druid concept.

What you did by the end was akin to saying that a dog and a chair are "mechanically the same" because both share one characteristic: both have four legs.

Wouldn’t that be you, since your original argument was that if it had any similar mechanics to another class it’s that class?

It's still the druid class with a reskin. It's akin to make a carbon copy of the warrior class but say both ideas are completely different in so many levels because its tank spec uses two shields instead of weapon and shield.

It’s not a reskin or a carbon copy since it would have unique models, animations, and completely different set of abilities and talents.

How about becoming an elemental? Thanks to their Legion artifact weapons, they could become bear-shaped stone elementals, and cat-shaped treants.

Fits in well with the nature themes of the class. Night Elves in WC3 had Mountain Giants, which that Bear form reminded me of. Definitely fitting.

They could have Blizzard adds glyphs that customize how abilities look. Cyclone, entanglement and Ursol's vortex can become web-based, for example.

If Blizzard couldn’t change the Z Druid tool tip from Bear form to Turtlesaur Form, the idea that they’d do what your describing above is laughably unrealistic.

Then ask him. And let us know what he says.

No need, I already know what his answer will be.

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Is it really that different when you say their shapeshifting is “mechanically like druids”

Yes, since it would have completely different models, abilities, and mechanics than the Druid class.

Ironic.

How?

No one wanted to return to Draenor yet we got the Mag’har.
Denathrius is widely accepted as the best part of Shadowlands and plenty of people want to see him return.

We returned to Draenor in a short, optional scenario for an allied race. In order to justify a dreadlord race, we’d have to go back to the shadowlands for a sizable portion of the expansion.

Whereas the Nerubians don’t really have anyone like that. Nobody really cares about them.

The factions could care if the Nerubians need help and we have a good reason for helping them. All you need is a convincing reason.

At the end of the day, Azjol Nerub is a far more popular expansion concept than Shadowlands 2.0. Feel free to run the poll yourself and see how it goes.

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The Dreadlords are definitely going to return at some point. Denathrius was really well received and they made sure he survived. He and the Winter Queen will probably be the two major characters from Shadowlands that get carried forward in a meaningful way.

That said, seriously doubt they'd be playable since they're firmly in the villain slot, unless they did something really interesting and had the player fill the role of a double agent that's infiltrating the Horde and Alliance. Which could actually be pretty cool.

I just don’t really see their purpose as a playable race. They don’t bring forward any interesting class concepts, and they overlap heavily with several existing races. This is especially the case after Nerubians. Also they really have zero reason to join the factions, and it’s highly doubtful either faction would ever trust them.

So sure, I see them as villains in future content, but definitely not as a playable race.

If they were to bring in a necromantic class, I think Lich Necromancer would be pretty solid. But, realistically, how long will it be before we have another death themed expansion? Probably a while.

I do believe that Azjol Nerub/Spider Kingdom is a possible future expansion. Northrend is still a favored location despite Shadowlands crap, and with the Nerubians we can really see an entirely new side to it.

Also a Crypt Lord class fits quite well with that expansion theme.

Also hard to say whether this race-class combo thing is going to be the standard going forward. I half expect them to eventually just open drakthyr up to other classes and make other races available as visage options for Evoker.

Since they always tie new races and classes into the theme of an expansion, if we're looking for new classes or races, probably best to look at what content is being set up for future storylines. Light, Life, and Void are the cosmic forces likely to get focused on in the near future.

Like I said, Azjol Nerub should also be in the conversation. Not for anytime soon, but definitely a few expansions down the road.

[Nightshade711]

Yes, since it would have completely different models, abilities, and mechanics than the Druid class.

Dreadlords would have completely different models, abilities, and mechanics than Demon Hunters and Dracthyr.

How?

You talk about how Dreadlords overlap with Dracthyr and Demon Hunters because of their wings but don’t see how Nerubians overlap with Druids/Dracthyr/Worgen by shapeshifting, especially since you say they work mechanically like druids.

We returned to Draenor in a short, optional scenario for an allied race. In order to justify a dreadlord race, we’d have to go back to the shadowlands for a sizable portion of the expansion.

Given that the Dreadlords all left the shadowlands/were exiled from the shadowlands… there’s no reason to return anymore than we currently do.

The factions could care if the Nerubians need help and we have a good reason for helping them. All you need is a convincing reason.

I was clearly talking about the players. Nobody cares about the Nerubians anymore.
They don’t even have a living figurehead that’s anywhere near as popular as Denathrius.

I just don’t really see their purpose as a playable race. They don’t bring forward any interesting class concepts, and they overlap heavily with several existing races. This is especially the case after Nerubians. Also they really have zero reason to join the factions, and it’s highly doubtful either faction would ever trust them.

I don’t see the purpose of a Nerubian playable race either. It doesn’t bring forward any interesting class concepts that don’t already overlap with existing races/classes.

[Teriz]

Dreadlords would have completely different models, abilities, and mechanics than Demon Hunters and Dracthyr.

I’m pretty sure that Dreadlords share the same model as DH metamorphosis.

You talk about how Dreadlords overlap with Dracthyr and Demon Hunters because of their wings but don’t see how Nerubians overlap with Druids/Dracthyr/Worgen by shapeshifting, especially since you say they work mechanically like druids.

Again, shapeshifting is a broad, varied concept. Even my concept is different than existing shapeshifting classes. The problem with a race with dragon wings is that DHs and Dracthyr have that concept thoroughly covered to the point where Dracthyr actually have the ability to glide like Demon Hunters. What could Dreadlords do differently? Not use their wings at all?

Given that the Dreadlords all left the shadowlands/were exiled from the shadowlands… there’s no reason to return anymore than we currently do.

Then where are we going? To the dreadlord home world? Why would we do that? Also I can already hear the groans of the userbase about traveling to another dark world full of Shadowland-styles characters.

I was clearly talking about the players. Nobody cares about the Nerubians anymore.
They don’t even have a living figurehead that’s anywhere near as popular as Denathrius.

Then why is Azjol Nerub/Spider Kingdom such a popular expansion concept?

I don’t see the purpose of a Nerubian playable race either. It doesn’t bring forward any interesting class concepts that don’t already overlap with existing races/classes.

What existing class allows you to play like Elereth Renferal or Grand Empress Shak’Zeer?

[Nightshade711]

I’m pretty sure that Dreadlords share the same model as DH metamorphosis.

Dreadlords have several models. The most common one isn’t using the same model as DH metamorphosis.

Again, shapeshifting is a broad, varied concept. Even my concept is different than existing shapeshifting classes.

Lol.
It’s still “shapeshifting into x to use the traits from x” just like Druid.

The problem with a race with dragon wings is that DHs and Dracthyr have that concept thoroughly covered to the point where Dracthyr actually have the ability to glide like Demon Hunters. What could Dreadlords do differently? Not use their wings at all?

They can use their wings differently, they don’t HAVE to glide.
If you can’t imagine more ways to use wings than gliding then idk what to tell you.

Then where are we going? To the dreadlord home world? Why would we do that? Also I can already hear the groans of the userbase about traveling to another dark world full of Shadowland-styles characters.

It depends on the expansion, if it’s a void/light themed expansion we could go to Nathrezea which as of Antorus had a big shadow/void theme.

They could also easily make up some camp/forward operating base/base of operations for Nathrezim somewhere on Azeroth.

What existing class allows you to play like Elereth Renferal

Given Renferal is a Druid and turns into beasts to utilize their beastial traits/abilities…
I’d say Druid allows us to play like Renferal.

[Teriz]

Dreadlords have several models. The most common one isn’t using the same model as DH metamorphosis.

That looks EXTREMELY close to meta form. Almost too close.

Lol.
It’s still “shapeshifting into x to use the traits from x” just like Druid.

That’s rather broad. Evokers, Worgen, Shaman, and other races and classes would be guilty of the same thing.

They can use their wings differently, they don’t HAVE to glide.
If you can’t imagine more ways to use wings than gliding then idk what to tell you.

Feel free to name a few.

It depends on the expansion, if it’s a void/light themed expansion we could go to Nathrezea which as of Antorus had a big shadow/void theme.

They could also easily make up some camp/forward operating base/base of operations for Nathrezim somewhere on Azeroth.

Okay, but why would we help the Nathrezim? All they’ve ever done is try to undermine us. They’re also rather aloof and don’t view us as equals to them. Why would they ask for our help?

Given Renferal is a Druid and turns into beasts to utilize their beastial traits/abilities…
I’d say Druid allows us to play like Renferal.

What Druid abilities allow us to play like Renferal? Also you completely ignored the Mantid empress. People rather like the idea of playing as a mantid. This class fulfills that desire.

[Sorrowseer]

Thats a lot of effort for something thats not gonna happen

[Nightshade711]

That looks EXTREMELY close to meta form. Almost too close.

About as close as Dracthyr are to the DH Metamorphosis.

That’s rather broad. Evokers, Worgen, Shaman, and other races and classes would be guilty of the same thing.

None of what you listed transform into beasts and use their beastial traits in combat.
My Worgen Mage doesn’t use his claws at all in combat. Shaman don’t fight in ghost wolf form either.
Evokers are naturally dragonkin, they’re not mortals who turn into draconic humanoids to use dragon magic.

Feel free to name a few.

If you can’t figure out a few more things wings can do than just gliding then I can’t help you.

Okay, but why would we help the Nathrezim? All they’ve ever done is try to undermine us. They’re also rather aloof and don’t view us as equals to them. Why would they ask for our help?

Why did we “help” the Forsaken in Vanilla? (Who mind you had a Dreadlord as one of their leaders)

They’d likely work like Vanilla Forsaken did. Here’s part of their intro, for context.

Convinced that the primitive races of the Horde can help them achieve victory over their enemies, the Forsaken have entered an alliance of convenience. Harboring no true loyalty for their new allies, they go to any lengths to ensure their dark plans come to fruition. As one of the Forsaken, you must massacre any who pose a threat to the new order, Human, Undead, or otherwise.

Dreadlords would harbor no TRUE loyalty to the factions. They’d be using them to achieve their goals, because as I’ve said we’ve done a far greater job disrupting the cosmos than anyone has.

The factions obviously wouldn’t be aware of this, just like with the Forsaken initially, and currently Lothraxion, who still has yet to be outed as a traitor last we’ve seen. (Even though there is the book hinting at it)

[Teriz]

Thats a lot of effort for something thats not gonna happen

You never know.

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About as close as Dracthyr are to the DH Metamorphosis.

Uh, okay.

None of what you listed transform into beasts and use their beastial traits in combat.
My Worgen Mage doesn’t use his claws at all in combat. Shaman don’t fight in ghost wolf form either.
Evokers are naturally dragonkin, they’re not mortals who turn into draconic humanoids to use dragon magic.

Uh, you can totally fight in ghost wolf form. They have some beastial traits too.

If you can’t figure out a few more things wings can do then just gliding then I can’t help you.

So I take it you can’t come up with any either? Thanks for proving my point.

Why did we “help” the Forsaken in Vanilla? (Who mind you had a Dreadlord as one of their leaders)

Because they were the victims, not the perpetrators (those were the Dreadlords).

They’d likely work like Vanilla Forsaken did. Here’s part of their intro, for context.

No they wouldn’t. Dreadlords were in the background cackling evilly in pretty much every scourge or demonic encounter we’ve been in. There’s a mountain of bad blood there, and I’m not seeing any inclination on Blizzard’s part on removing it, because Denathrius was a huge d-head too.

[Nightshade711]

Uh, you can totally fight in ghost wolf form. They have some beastial traits too.

Weird, I don’t see any viable rotation (or any actual abilities) where you fight in ghost wolf form.
Unless you’re talking about auto attack to be contrarian?

So I take it you can’t come up with any either? Thanks for proving my point.

It’s not hard. You just need to have an fraction of an imagination.

Dash forward (or in any direction you’re moving)
Small leap forward.
Immune to fall damage (would flap wings at the last second before hitting the ground)
Maybe they could even control their movement while falling without gliding/using slow fall mechanics.

The list goes on.

Because they were the victims, not the perpetrators (those were the Dreadlords).

Victims of what?
They literally told us that the Forsaken are only USING The Horde to further their own agenda as an alliance of convenience.

No they wouldn’t. Dreadlords were in the background cackling evilly in pretty much every scourge or demonic encounter we’ve been in. There’s a mountain of bad blood there, and I’m not seeing any inclination on Blizzard’s part on removing it, because Denathrius was a huge d-head too.

You’re forgetting about Lothraxion who actively helped both the Priest and Paladin order hall as an active commander in the Army of the Light.

Especially with the infiltration book in Shadowlands, it proved that it can happen and Dreadlords could viably infiltrate groups without even needing to disguise themselves. (Assuming Lothraxion is actually still sided with Denathrius and wasn’t truly converted to the light)

Players used to like the Undead for the fact that you played an “evil” race with the themes and story of said race in Vanilla-Wotlk solidifying that. (Arguably continued even after Wotlk with Cataclysm and all the use of blight throughout BfA)

Blizzard broke the mold when Vanilla launched with being the first MMO to have playable Undead, since the Undead at the time were only ever seen as enemies/pure evil. They can do it again.

[Ielenia]

I was clearly only talking about shapeshifting. Shapeshifting is not the whole of the Druid concept.

Except shapeshifting is a huge, if not the most of what makes the druid... a druid. This isn't something minor as a mana or energy bar resource.

Wouldn’t that be you, since your original argument was that if it had any similar mechanics to another class it’s that class?

Nope, that's you. You were one that equated both concepts.

It’s not a reskin or a carbon copy since it would have unique models, animations, and completely different set of abilities and talents.

Zandalari druids also have unique models. The werebear has unique animations. And no, the crypt lord/nerubians don't have "a different set of abilities and talents" because they don't exist as a class. That's like saying a barbarian and a blademaster classes have "completely different set of abilities and talents" than the warrior class.

Fits in well with the nature themes of the class. Night Elves in WC3 had Mountain Giants, which that Bear form reminded me of. Definitely fitting.

And elementals of the plane of water reminds us of the frost mage's water elemental, but that doesn't mean the class is about using magic from the elemental plane of water. Elementals are not part of the druid's theme.

If Blizzard couldn’t change the Z Druid tool tip from Bear form to Turtlesaur Form,

They did not because it is not a separate ability, Teriz. Zandalari don't have an unique Guardian form ability. It's the exact same for all druid races.

the idea that they’d do what your describing above is laughably unrealistic.

I'll also remind you that the word "steed" refers to horses, and yet dwarf paladins have an ability called "Divine Steed" that summons a ram, not a horse. Draenei paladins have an ability called "Divine Steed" that summons an elekk, not a horse. Lightforged draenei paladins have an ability called "Divine Steed" that summons a talbuk, not a horse. Tauren paladins have an ability called "Divine Steed" that summons a kodo, not a horse.

And, again, zandalari Guardian druids have an ability called "Ironfur" despite their guardian form having no fur.

No need, I already know what his answer will be.

In other words, you don't know, but like to delude yourself pretending you do? When in reality, Brack's words ring true: "You think you do, but you don't."

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So I take it you can’t come up with any either? Thanks for proving my point.

"You won't do as I tell you to do? Then I win" has to be not only the weakest, but the most childish form of argumentation I've seen around in these forums.

[Teriz]

Weird, I don’t see any viable rotation (or any actual abilities) where you fight in ghost wolf form.
Unless you’re talking about auto attack to be contrarian?

You can cast all of your totems, Purge, Astral Shift, Water Walking, Cleanse Spirit and a few other spells without breaking Ghost Wolf form. You can also do Feral Lunge in Ghost Wolf form, but you turn back on impact with your target.

It’s not hard. You just need to have a fraction of an imagination.

Dash forward (or in any direction you’re moving)
Small leap forward.

You don't need wings to do either of those abilities.

Immune to fall damage (would flap wings at the last second before hitting the ground)
Maybe they could even control their movement while falling without gliding/using slow fall mechanics.

Dracthyr and Demon Hunters already do that.

The list goes on.

Eh.....

Victims of what?
They literally told us that the Forsaken are only USING The Horde to further their own agenda as an alliance of convenience.

They're victims of the Scourge. They didn't cause it, they were killed and resurrected as undead monsters by the Lich King and his cronies (the Dreadlords).

You’re forgetting about Lothraxion who actively helped both the Priest and Paladin order hall as an active commander in the Army of the Light.

Yes, back in Legion. The same expansion where Detheroc posed as a human and attempted to undermine the alliance, and plenty of other Dreadlords were commanding Burning Legion armies. Then we ran into Sire Denathrius in Shadowlands continuing the tradition of evil dreadlords.

We don't need to make every race playable.

[Ielenia]

We don't need to make every race playable.

This coming from the guy arguing against everyone in favor of a nerubian race, to the point he has to copy the dracthyr and conflate class and race... is so ironically precious.

[Nightshade711]

You can cast all of your totems, Purge, Astral Shift, Water Walking, Cleanse Spirit and a few other spells without breaking Ghost Wolf form.

None of these are beastial traits or part of the Shaman rotation that’s tied to Ghost Wolf.
So as I said, you’re not fighting in Ghost Wolf. (Especially since all of those abilities you mentioned are essentially utility)

You don't need wings to do either of those abilities.

You don’t need wings sure but it’s still possible with them.
It’d give the wings use without copying glide.

Dracthyr and Demon Hunters already do that.

Weird, if I don’t press glide I still take fall damage on DH and Dracthyr.
I also don’t think you can control movement while falling without pressing glide.
And as I said, glide is a slow fall mechanic.

They're victims of the Scourge. They didn't cause it, they were killed and resurrected as undead monsters by the Lich King and his cronies (the Dreadlords).

Uh…
How is this exactly relevant to the Forsaken’s whole thing being the fact that they were only using the horde to further their goals and had no true allegiance/loyalty to them?

Yes, back in Legion. The same expansion where Detheroc posed as a human and attempted to undermine the alliance, and plenty of other Dreadlords were commanding Burning Legion armies. Then we ran into Sire Denathrius in Shadowlands continuing the tradition of evil dreadlords.

The Undead have a long storied history even throughout WoW of being evil.
Experimenting on civilians since Vanilla, Wrathgate, 90% of the Silverpine storyline, Blighting Gilneas, Lordaeron… etc etc etc.

We don't need to make every race playable.

Exactly! Now you’re getting it.

The point is that almost any reason you can come up with to have playable Nerubians, you’d be able to apply to Dreadlords. Especially since Dreadlords are playable in both WC3 and Hots.
(And then more, since Denathrius and the Dreadlords are actually popular.)

[Teriz]

Except shapeshifting is a huge, if not the most of what makes the druid... a druid. This isn't something minor as a mana or energy bar resource.

Druids are far from the only class that shape shifts. It's not the shape shifting, it's the theme of the class, which is heavily nature/forest/environmental based. The shapeshifting simply adds to it because you can become a beast or a forest entity, and that pulls you deeper into the thematic.

Nope, that's you. You were one that equated both concepts.

To help readers better understand the concept.

Zandalari druids also have unique models.

No, those are all reskinned Druid models except the Moonkin model which a reskinned Arrakoa.

The werebear has unique animations.

It's not a default Druid form though. It's a special customization.

And no, the crypt lord/nerubians don't have "a different set of abilities and talents" because they don't exist as a class. That's like saying a barbarian and a blademaster classes have "completely different set of abilities and talents" than the warrior class.

Here's a Crypt Lord with unique abilities;

https://www.wowhead.com/npc=15956/an...ities;mode:n10

And elementals of the plane of water reminds us of the frost mage's water elemental, but that doesn't mean the class is about using magic from the elemental plane of water. Elementals are not part of the druid's theme.

Well the Druidic theme encompasses nature, and mountain giants are a part of that, so it's no surprise that Druids would get forms related to that concept.

They did not because it is not a separate ability, Teriz. Zandalari don't have a unique Guardian form ability. It's the exact same for all druid races.

So then why would they give Forsaken a unique Druid form with unique glyphs?

I'll also remind you that the word "steed" refers to horses, and yet dwarf paladins have an ability called "Divine Steed" that summons a ram, not a horse. Draenei paladins have an ability called "Divine Steed" that summons an elekk, not a horse. Lightforged draenei paladins have an ability called "Divine Steed" that summons a talbuk, not a horse. Tauren paladins have an ability called "Divine Steed" that summons a kodo, not a horse.

That's only because in the real world, the area where that word originated from people only rode horses. I'm sure if people were riding rams and elephants and Talbuks in medieval Britain, it would have a more diverse meaning.

And, again, zandalari Guardian druids have an ability called "Ironfur" despite their guardian form having no fur.

Which only furthers my point above.

"You won't do as I tell you to do? Then I win" has to be not only the weakest, but the most childish form of argumentation I've seen around in these forums.

He said he could "easily" come up with such abilities. He couldn't do it, so it is what it is.

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None of these are beastial traits or part of the Shaman rotation that’s tied to Ghost Wolf.
So as I said, you’re not fighting in Ghost Wolf. (Especially since all of those abilities you mentioned are essentially utility)

You didn't ask for a rotation, you said "fighting in Ghost Wolf", which would include auto attacking and using the abilities I listed above.

As for Bestial abilities, I would say increased move speed and feral lunge are such abilities.

You don’t need wings sure but it’s still possible with them.
It’d give the wings use without copying glide.

That's the problem, we have so many races with wings that there's no room left for another one.

Weird, if I don’t press glide I still take fall damage on DH and Dracthyr.
I also don’t think you can control movement while falling without pressing glide.
And as I said, glide is a slow fall mechanic.

If I press Glide right before I hit the ground, I'll glide and not take fall damage.

As for controlling the direction of you fall.... That's gliding because they would be using their wings. If they're not using their wings, then what's the point?

Uh…
How is this exactly relevant to the Forsaken’s whole thing being the fact that they were only using the horde to further their goals and had no true allegiance/loyalty to them?

Given their history (they used to be human) that makes sense. That doesn't make them insidiously evil (like Dreadlords).

The Undead have a long storied history even throughout WoW of being evil.
Wrathgate, 90% of the Silverpine storyline, Blighting Gilneas, Lordaeron… etc etc etc.

You mean when they were mindless monsters being controlled by the Lich King and Arthas? That's not the Forsaken.

Exactly! Now you’re getting it.
The point is that almost any reason you can come up with to have playable Nerubians, you’d be able to apply to Dreadlords. (And then more, since Denathrius and the Dreadlords are actually popular.)

The reason to have playable Nerubians is because we have a popular expansion concept that has good chance of happening, and a WC3/HotS hero who can offer a new class that brings new dynamics and themes to the class lineup.

There's zero reason to have playable Dreadlords.

- - - Updated - - -

This coming from the guy arguing against everyone in favor of a nerubian race, to the point he has to copy the dracthyr and conflate class and race... is so ironically precious.

I'll repeat;

The reason to have playable Nerubians is because we have a popular expansion concept that has good chance of happening, and a WC3/HotS hero who can offer a new class that brings new dynamics and themes to the class lineup.

[Nightshade711]

You didn't ask for a rotation, you said "fighting in Ghost Wolf", which would include auto attacking and using the abilities I listed above.

Actually I said..

Weird, I don’t see any viable rotation (or any actual abilities) where you fight in ghost wolf form.
Unless you’re talking about auto attack to be contrarian?

That's the problem, we have so many races with wings that there's no room left for another one.

We have only one race with wings.

If I press Glide right before I hit the ground, I'll glide and not take fall damage.

As for controlling the direction of you fall.... That's gliding because they would be using their wings. If they're not using their wings, then what's the point?

It’s not the same as glide if there’s not the slow fall mechanic.

Given their history (they used to be human) that makes sense. That doesn't make them insidiously evil (like Dreadlords).

Sure their origins doesn’t make them evil.
But most of their actions since Vanilla does. Which I’ve already listed in a previous post.

Besides, it’s no new concept for Dreadlords to be “allied” with us or our factions. (Such as Lothraxion, and Varimathras before the Wrathgate)
The same can’t be said for the Nerubians

You mean when they were mindless monsters being controlled by the Lich King and Arthas? That's not the Forsaken.

Literally everything I posted as an example were the acts of The Forsaken, not the Scourge.

The reason to have playable Nerubians is because we have a popular expansion concept that has good chance of happening. There's zero reason to have playable Dreadlords.

The reason to have playable Dreadlords is because they’re a popular race/class, with the widely accepted best part of Shadowlands being the story of their creator.
They’re also both a class in WC3 and a hero in Hots.

Not to mention that Blizzard originally intended for Dreadlords to be playable in Vanilla, but they had to be cut because at the time they didn’t have the technology and it would’ve been too expensive at the time to make that technology. They have the technology now.

Blizzard also recently has been going back and adding in races/classes they wanted for Vanilla. (Playable Goblins, Demon Hunters, Dragonkin race, etc)
The next playable race or class will likely continue that trend.