Crypt Lord class now possible thanks to Dracthyr Evokers?

[Triceron]

So fans of the hero unit are just SoL?

Well, they can wait for the Azjol Nerub expansion for a Crypt Lord class that may or may never come.

Forsaken Druids can be rolled out with customizations in the meantime. DH had to wait for Legion while Rogues with Warglaives and Metamorphosis Demolocks filled the gaps in the meantime.

[Teriz]

I don’t think anyone really looks at the crypt lord and says “yes I need this as a class” compared to almost every other concept.

This is an assumption. Plenty of people want an Azjol Nerub expansion, and they wouldn’t want that if they weren’t a fan of Nerubians and Crypt Lords.

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Well, they can wait for the Azjol Nerub expansion for a Crypt Lord class that may or may never come.

Yeah, I would say that’s more likely than Forsaken transforming into Nerubians with tree-hugging abilities.

[Nightshade711]

This is an assumption. Plenty of people want an Azjol Nerub expansion, and they wouldn’t want that if they weren’t a fan of Nerubians and Crypt Lords.

Plenty of people also want a Void expansion but we’re not getting a playable Old God race/class that involves mind controlling people

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We’d might as well add a “Elementla Firelord” race/class based off of the WC3 hero class that summons volcanoes and lava spawn.

[Teriz]

Plenty of people also want a Void expansion but we’re not getting a playable Old God race/class that involves mind controlling people

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We’d might as well add a “Elementla Firelord” race/class based off of the WC3 hero class that summons volcanoes and lava spawn.

Please provide a thread where players want to play as an old god or a fire lord. I have yet to see it.

[Nightshade711]

Please provide a thread where players want to play as an old god or a fire lord. I have yet to see it.

There are plenty of threads where someone wants to play a elemental or something tied to the old gods, like a K’thir

[Triceron]

Yeah, I would say that’s more likely than Forsaken transforming into Nerubians with tree-hugging abilities.

Forsaken with tree hugging abilities is an inevitability. One that makes no more sense whether they have Bear forms or Crypt Lord forms.

Cosmetics are the best way to implement it IMO, otherwise a standalone class is as much of a pipedream as playable Nightwarrior or playable Blood Mage class. Can we even get multiple Specs out of a Crypt Lord? It sounds like a Tank and that's it. We can't even split it up into a Nerubian form, as a class it would only be a Crypt Lord and that's it. If you suggest a humanoid taking multiple forms, then we're already talking about a Druid.

Evoker works because Dragon theme is vast and broad, and split up between various Aspect themes. Nerubians have one kit, one theme, and it's already shared undeath theme with DKs, with any shapeshifting already firmly planted with the Druid. Forsaken Druid cosmetics would be the best option. Even with ability glyphs, you could have Force of Nature summon those giant carrion beetles and really sell the concept. Bring back Insect Swarm DoT for Moonfire replacement, give Incapacitating Roar a new graphic of spikes erupting from the ground, and it's all good.

[Teriz]

There are plenty of threads where someone wants to play a elemental or something tied to the old gods, like a K’thir

Yeah, not what you said earlier, but whatever.

Shaman can play as an Elemental via Ascension. Shadow Priests are tied to the Old Gods, so what are you talking about?

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Forsaken with tree hugging abilities is an inevitability. One that makes no more sense whether they have Bear forms or Crypt Lord forms.

If Blizzard wants to make forsaken into Druids, that’s their prerogative. However, they’re not going to utilize Nerubians and crypt lords to do it. It’s just going to be undead bears and cats.

Nerubians have one kit, one theme, and it's already shared undeath theme with DKs, with any shapeshifting already firmly planted with the Druid. Forsaken Druid cosmetics would be the best option. Even with ability glyphs, you could have Force of Nature summon those giant carrion beetles and really sell the concept. Bring back Insect Swarm DoT for Moonfire replacement, give Pulverize a new graphic of spikes erupting from the ground, and it's all good.

Eh, that’s not true. Nerubians have three kits; Crypt Lord WC3, Anub ‘Arak HotS, and Crypt Fiend WC3. That’s plenty to develop a class from.

[Clone]

We don't need to give rise to arachnys.

[Triceron]

Eh, that’s not true. Nerubians have three kits; Crypt Lord WC3, Anub ‘Arak HotS, and Crypt Fiend WC3. That’s plenty to develop a class from.

Sounds like a Druid to me *shrug*

WC3 and Anubarak HOTs are the same tank-centric concept. That only accounts for one spec.

Crypt Lord isn't a Crypt Fiend, and I can hardly see an entire spec being made out of 'shooting spiders' anyways. It's practically coverable with a glyph for any projectile spell in the game.

Your argument is like implying we need a completely separate Dinomancer class that turns into different Dinosaurs. Well, Zandalari Druid already works for that. The Druid works fine, even regardless of the nature spells or moon abilities. No one seems to think a Dinomancer is SOL. If Blizzard wants to add a Dinomancer later in, they could, but Zandalari Druid works well to fill the fantasy of playing a Dinosaur form fine otherwise.

Glyphs and cosmetics have way more flexibility without impacting design bloat and balance. We don't need a new class for every outlier theme when glyphs and transmogs can do 90% of the job.

[Teriz]

Sounds like a Druid to me *shrug*

Burrowing through the ground to rush and attack, Sending a row of spikes through the ground, Summoning a variety of beetles, Cocooning enemies in webs, etc. sounds like a Druid?

WC3 and Anubarak HOTs are the same tank-centric concept. That only accounts for one spec.

Actually that’s false. Anub Arak could rapidly move through the ground and attack enemies, summoned a variety insects for utility, and he had webbing abilities. It was quite a bit different than the more brute version in WC3, and gives rise to a summoner Spec possibly.

Crypt Lord isn't a Crypt Fiend, and I can hardly see an entire spec being made out of 'shooting spiders' anyways.

They pulled Crypt Fiend concepts into Anub Arak with his ability to web, and the shooting spiders adds to the concept of a summoning spec.

Your argument is like implying we need a completely separate Dinomancer class that turns into different Dinosaurs. Well, Zandalari Druid already works for that. The Druid works fine, even regardless of the nature spells or moon abilities. No one seems to think a Dinomancer is SOL. If Blizzard wants to add a Dinomancer later in, they could, but Zandalari Druid works well to fill the fantasy of playing a Dinosaur form fine otherwise.

Who is the Warcraft hero that Zandalari troll Druids turn into?

[cocomen2]

Entomancer - RPG class that reimagine japanese Onmyoji, class that specialize into summoning different insect to make use of them as a weapons - bug shields, bug spears, ant darts, moth daggers etc. Main purpose of said class it's be jack of all trades with cheap cost to it and ability to switch between types of weapon styles on the run, in same time weak point is low durability and lifespan of specific insect to balance out power of weapons, so you are forced to switch between weapons even if you would rather not.

[Nightshade711]

Yeah, not what you said earlier, but whatever.

I doubt blizzard would make a Nerubian-based class/race that is a 1-1 for crypt lords. It would be a mix of several things and wouldn’t be some massive crypt lord just like the Evokers weren’t actual dragons.
They’d probably just make a humanoid Nerubian that’d take inspiration from some of the humanoid insect races like the Mantid and some of the Silithid.

Just like what they’d do with a “playable Old God” or “Firelord” class.

However, they’re not going to utilize Nerubians and crypt lords to do it. It’s just going to be undead bears and cats.

Yeah you don’t know that.
Take Zandalari for example, their forms aren’t just “bear and cat”

[Triceron]

Burrowing through the ground to rush and attack, Sending a row of spikes through the ground, Summoning a variety of beetles, Cocooning enemies in webs, etc. sounds like a Druid?

I mean, sounds like a modified Stealth or Feral Charge, that's it

Row of spikes is literally just visuals. You can glyph that too.

Cocooning can literally be a glyph for Cyclone.

Do we really need a new class that does 90% of what a Druid dies but with different visuals? Wouldn't it make sense to just add them in as racial or cosmetic customizations?

Zandalari did great with the Dinonforms.

They pulled Crypt Fiend concepts into Anub Arak with his ability to web, and the shooting spiders adds to the concept of a summoning spec.

Doesn't sound like you could really build a full spec out of that. Druids have summons too, they don't need a summoner spec to justify having Treants. And like I said, Carrion Beetles would be fine as a glyph for that.

Webs, Cocoons, Beetles/Spiders... That's all just a variation if what Balance Druid already has. Entangle, Cyclone, Force of Nature, even a Locust Swarm can be glyphed off Starfall.

Who is the Warcraft hero that Zandalari troll Druids turn into?

What humanoid Hero turns into a Crypt Lord? We're ultimately talking about a Druid concept here.

[Teriz]

I doubt blizzard would make a Nerubian-based class/race that is a 1-1 for crypt lords.

If we’re looking at an Azjol Nerub expansion, it’s a distinct possibility.

[Nightshade711]

If we’re looking at an Azjol Nerub expansion, it’s a distinct possibility.

Just like the distinct possibility of a playable Titan in a Titan expansion.
Or a playable Val’kyr race/class in a Shadowlands expansion.

Crypt lords are going to have the same exact issues that playable dragons will.
Models are too big and even scaling them down might not be enough.

But as Triceron said, there’s not much gameplay difference between what you’re describing for Nerubians and Druids atm.

[Teriz]

I mean, sounds like a modified Stealth or Feral Charge, that's it

This is nonsense. What is your argument here? That Blizzard is going to combine two abilities into one and forget the damage modifier? You’re talking about a completely different ability set.

Row of spikes is literally just visuals. You can glyph that too.

You know that row of spikes does damage right? So no, it’s not just visuals.

cocooon can literally be a glyph for Cyclone.

So the target is going to be in the air spinning inside the cocoon? If not, we’re talking about more than a glyph here.

Do we really need a new class that does 90% of what a Druid dies but with different visuals? Wouldn't it make sense to just add them in as racial or cosmetic customizations?

The reality is that the Crypt Lord does nothing that the Druid does. It’s a completely opposite class ability wise.

Zandalari did great with the Dinonforms.

Dinoforms werent representative of any Warcraft hero. The Crypt Lord is.

What humanoid Hero turns into a Crypt Lord?

That’s a straw man.

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Just like the distinct possibility of a playable Titan in a Titan expansion.
Or a playable Val’kyr race/class in a Shadowlands expansion.

You’re comparing a Crypt Lord to a Titan? Wth?

Crypt lords are going to have the same exact issues that playable dragons will.
Models are too big and even scaling them down might not be enough.

Unlike dragons, Crypt Lords don’t need to be huge.

But as Triceron said, there’s not much gameplay difference between what you’re describing for Nerubians and Druids atm.

If you can’t tell the gameplay difference between a bear that attacks with teeth, claws, and nature magic, and a beetle monster that attacks with burrowing attacks, insect minions, and venom, I don’t know what to tell ya.

[Triceron]

This is nonsense. What is your argument here? That Blizzard is going to combine two abilities into one and forget the damage modifier? You’re talking about a completely different ability set.

So the target is going to be in the air spinning inside the cocoon? If not, we’re talking about more than a glyph here.

The reality is that the Crypt Lord does nothing that the Druid does. It’s a completely opposite class ability wise.

A movement ability is a movement ability.

A CC that incapacitates and roots is no different than others even if given a different graphic.

HotS has skins that does this kind of ability swapping all the time. They aren't different abilities, they're graphical swaps.

Dinoforms werent representative of any Warcraft hero. The Crypt Lord is.

Again, what humanoid turns into a Cryptlord?
You're trying to equate cute anthropomorphic spider girls to Anub'arak.

[Nightshade711]

If you can’t tell the gameplay difference between a bear that attacks with teeth, claws, and nature magic, and a beetle monster that attacks with burrowing attacks, insect minions, and venom, I don’t know what to tell ya.

Idk man. Take away the visuals and I don’t see how the gameplay loop is different.
(Also shamans already have a ‘burrowing attack’ ability)

It’s like saying a Priest and Paladin are the same because they both use the light.
Or how a Demo lock and a Necromancer (the concepts based on summoning minions) are different because the difference in visuals.

Unlike dragons, Crypt Lords don’t need to be huge.

Have you ever seen a tiny crypt lord in World of Warcraft?

I haven’t, every crypt lord I’ve seen has been like this:

[Teriz]

A movement ability is a movement ability.

So Charge is the same as Deep Breath?

A CC that incapacitates and roots is no different than others even if given a different graphic.

So Capacitor Totem is the same as Imprison?

You do understand that those abilities have completely different attributes and require completely different levels of balance right? You just can't swap Charge for Deep Breath in the Warrior class, it would completely upend how they play DESPITE both being movement abilities. Just like giving Guardian Druids Burrow Charge will completely change how they play.

HotS has skins that does this kind of ability swapping all the time. They aren't different abilities, they're graphical swaps.

This isn't HotS.

Again, what humanoid turns into a Cryptlord?
You're trying to equate cute anthropomorphic spider girls to Anub'arak.

Again, that's a straw man. You compared Zalandari Druid forms to a Forsaken getting a Crypt Lord form when the latter is actually a hero unit and character with its own set of abilities and the former are not. I am proposing a class that is humanoid in appearance and can fight in Crypt Lord form. That's the difference.

[Gurahk]

Considering the horrid visage forms for Dracthyr, I don't want to imagine the "visage" forms for these creatures.