welp they finally did it: WoW Token on Wrath Classic

[Garymorilix]

So more gold going to just those willing to buy it would not effect the economy at all, say for example I bought a sizeable chuck of gold and kept it out of others hands it would no way have any effect on the servers economy at all? (and then later starting dumping it).

If you had 99% of the gold on a server and did literally nothing but sat on it then it wouldn't effect anyone.
IDK why you think someone would just start buying ALL the wow tokens for literally no reason just to hoard gold.
It's literally impossible for 1 person to control a free economy. Over time things always equalize.

In fact, the token allows people to 'cash out' meaning they can convert their gold to Blizz balance for other games / gametime.
So the existence of the token literally reduces hoarding as gold becomes more versatile.

[Relapses]

Fair enough, here is the thread, it's even new just started one day ago.

https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/...tart_of_every/

Dude also sounds very legit, and people who know their stuff around botting also confirmed it in the thread.

>guy admits to flagrantly ruining the game experience for others along with tax evasion and other cryptobro bullshit

"WOW, SUCH A HERO!"

>Blizzard lays out how many bots they've banned in the last 2 weeks and provides in-depth explanation from the developers' perspective

"I can't believe a word these motherfuckers say! DAE Blizzard BAD?!"

I can't with this fucking community man. You guys just want to hear whatever the fuck it is you want to hear.

[Leodric]

>guy admits to flagrantly ruining the game experience for others along with tax evasion and other cryptobro bullshit

"WOW, SUCH A HERO!"

>Blizzard lays out how many bots they've banned in the last 2 weeks and provides in-depth explanation from the developers' perspective

"I can't believe a word these motherfuckers say! DAE Blizzard BAD?!"

I can't with this fucking community man.

Imagine having more than one opinion in a communty, what a shock. You will see as many people flaming him as well as praising him, doesn't change the fact these ban waves haven't changed a thing.

....You guys just want to hear whatever the fuck it is you want to hear.

ironic

[Relapses]

Imagine having more than one opinion in a communty, what a shock. You will see as many people flaming him as well as praising him, doesn't change the fact these ban waves haven't changed a thing.


ironic

The only irony here is that you trust one random fuckwad on reddit more than the developers themselves.

[Inoculate]

So more gold going to just those willing to buy it would not effect the economy at all, say for example I bought a sizeable chuck of gold and kept it out of others hands it would no way have any effect on the servers economy at all? (and then later starting dumping it).

20 more people buying up raid mats does nothing to prices? It's very simple economics. More people able to buy items causes less of that item to be available thus driving up the price.

Now take that into WoW. Sure some buy gold from illicit websites but most don't because of the risk. Now that it's safe, more gold buyers means more inflation.

Look at historical prices of items between original expansion or vanilla items and classic realms.

Tell me inflation isnt happening already.

Learn some economics or even just google inflation. You'll eventually start to see how this impacts the bigger picture but right now you're just talking out from a point of very limited knowledge and equating opinion to fact.

[craigw]

ROFL "no changes". sure didnt last long. i mean upon re-release it was changed. its not even the same original game. its just like retail now. has been for a while tho, adding challenges to dungeons and game token just solidfy the near retail experience......

[Dadwen]

If you had 99% of the gold on a server and did literally nothing but sat on it then it wouldn't effect anyone.
IDK why you think someone would just start buying ALL the wow tokens for literally no reason just to hoard gold.
It's literally impossible for 1 person to control a free economy. Over time things always equalize.

In fact, the token allows people to 'cash out' meaning they can convert their gold to Blizz balance for other games / gametime.
So the existence of the token literally reduces hoarding as gold becomes more versatile.

if you took 99% of the gold out in a short time it would effect, even worse if you dumped it quickly *not that one person can but you have several doing large amounts, an why do people do a lot of things, play the AH you don't think people play tokens? they do it because there is a way to make some profit off it, plus with the tokens you have large amounts changing hands with no natural exchanges taking place that would normally have on a normal market.

- - - Updated - - -

20 more people buying up raid mats does nothing to prices? It's very simple economics. More people able to buy items causes less of that item to be available thus driving up the price.

Now take that into WoW. Sure some buy gold from illicit websites but most don't because of the risk. Now that it's safe, more gold buyers means more inflation.

Look at historical prices of items between original expansion or vanilla items and classic realms.

Tell me inflation isnt happening already.

Learn some economics or even just google inflation. You'll eventually start to see how this impacts the bigger picture but right now you're just talking out from a point of very limited knowledge and equating opinion to fact.

that was my question (I was asking that as a question to the person I responded to), this is all gold changing hands with no natural growth of the server economy, I keep getting told there is no extra gold in the system it's just being sent around via the tokens but you have a outside device passing that gold around that does nothing to help server (sooner or later it's also going to seem easier to just grab the CC and buy the gold than do something that earns it (prices shoot up less people making things and just asking more to still make the gold for their tokens, and the ones buying the gold being the only one that can now afford that stuff.. *either way the whole token idea is a giant middle finger to their own "pillar" idea they vomited out.

*guessing there are dozen of other ways that it could hurt it also, buy a bunch of gold just to try and corner the AH (something I could not do with out having a outside source of stocking up on gold), easy gold spends faster than hard earned gold (IMO) so people buy out things quicker driving up the prices as things sell out faster than they normally would have.

[Skylarking]

The only irony here is that you trust one random fuckwad on reddit more than the developers themselves.

Are you talking about the OP of the thread? Because she/he and blizzard both say the same thing, you can't stop the botting.

[RoKPaNda]

>guy admits to flagrantly ruining the game experience for others along with tax evasion and other cryptobro bullshit

"WOW, SUCH A HERO!"

>Blizzard lays out how many bots they've banned in the last 2 weeks and provides in-depth explanation from the developers' perspective

"I can't believe a word these motherfuckers say! DAE Blizzard BAD?!"

I can't with this fucking community man. You guys just want to hear whatever the fuck it is you want to hear.

You're just now recognizing that the community will 100% shit on anything Blizzard says or does? It's basically a meme. The COD community is the same way. League is the same way. etc.

If anything that guy's post confirms what Blizzard says, I don't really know why the community thinks that one has to be lying and one has to be telling the truth.

1) The fight against bots is never ending.
2) They ban bots as people report them, you just don't always see it from the user side of things.

You recognize the bot that doesn't get banned right away, because it's still there and still botting, you don't really think about all the bots you reported that aren't there anymore.

What that guy said on Reddit feels pretty accurate to me as an officer in a top guild on Classic, and also as just a raider in retail.

In retail you don't really SEE it as much, but it's there, I mean people buy heroic clears from my guild pretty much constantly, and the same thing exists in M+, and also I'm sure in PvP but that's outside of my experience. The reason why gold spam existed in Vanilla WoW, and why phishing scams and keyloggers and all that were a thing in TBC/Wrath/whatever is because the demand for it is there. You see it a lot less now since the token exists but there's still RMT going on. I'm sure that at least some of the gold that we get for selling AOTC and such is from that. Some of it's gotten through the AH, some of it is from the token, some of it is from illicit RMT. Especially at the start of tiers when a Heroic clear is going for like 2m gold. Or when they're paying us 1m every week for 3 Mythic bosses later in the tier for their vaults.

If it wasn't for the token it would still be there it would just be 100% illicit RMT and if you banned boosting then it would STILL exist because it existed in vanilla before dedicated boosting communities. People don't really care, they just want what they want. Blizzard knows this, and they do their best to ban increasingly sophisticated bots, and it's refreshing that they acknowledged publicly that there is no winning. The best they can hope for is hiding the illicit shit from the general population. That's essentially what the WoW token did, it took the dead gnome bots spelling out advertisements away, it took away most of the gold for $ spam, etc.

The problem with Classic is that RMT is even more rampant and it's completely out in the open. People talk about it in guild discords, people talk about it in-game, it's pretty much just accepted at this point. Back in TBC when it wasn't really feasible to run Gruul every week anymore because only the people who needed DST wanted to go, most of my phys DPS raiders went to GDKPs. When Wrath came out my entire roster of raiders whether they were playing their TBC mains or swapped for Wrath had epic flight on deck and were exalted with Hodir, maxed professions, maximum sweat, raid day one. You think I don't know how they all did that? Periodically a raider will post in our absences channel in discord that Blizzard suspended them for gold buying so they'll be out for 2 weeks. They'll get a lot of "lol" reactions and then other people will tell them where they should be getting their gold from instead.

It is just BLATANT in Classic. You can't even pretend that it's anything else, where with retail you can say "Oh yeah well you know it's not super hard to gold cap lol." - In Classic there's no shot that multiple groups are full of absolutely outstanding AH players with like 100k to spend on a trinket from Sarth.

The truth is that every single multiplayer game that any of us has ever played, or even single player games that are online, has RMT going on. You know Hearthstone? There's RMT for hearthstone lol.

[Relapses]

Are you talking about the OP of the thread? Because she/he and blizzard both say the same thing, you can't stop the botting.

I'm talking about how instead of believing an incredibly thorough, well-reasoned take from the developers themselves, we're taking the word of some guy who openly admits he 1.) intentionally destroys the gameplay experience of other players for his own profit, 2.) admits openly to tax evasion, and 3.) has a financial motivation to lie to everybody about the nature of botting and the impact of the WoW token. That seems a bit, uhh... what's the word? Oh yeah. Ironic.

- - - Updated - - -

You're just now recognizing that the community will 100% shit on anything Blizzard says or does? It's basically a meme. The COD community is the same way. League is the same way. etc.

If anything that guy's post confirms what Blizzard says, I don't really know why the community thinks that one has to be lying and one has to be telling the truth.

1) The fight against bots is never ending.
2) They ban bots as people report them, you just don't always see it from the user side of things.

You recognize the bot that doesn't get banned right away, because it's still there and still botting, you don't really think about all the bots you reported that aren't there anymore.

What that guy said on Reddit feels pretty accurate to me as an officer in a top guild on Classic, and also as just a raider in retail.

In retail you don't really SEE it as much, but it's there, I mean people buy heroic clears from my guild pretty much constantly, and the same thing exists in M+, and also I'm sure in PvP but that's outside of my experience. The reason why gold spam existed in Vanilla WoW, and why phishing scams and keyloggers and all that were a thing in TBC/Wrath/whatever is because the demand for it is there. You see it a lot less now since the token exists but there's still RMT going on. I'm sure that at least some of the gold that we get for selling AOTC and such is from that. Some of it's gotten through the AH, some of it is from the token, some of it is from illicit RMT. Especially at the start of tiers when a Heroic clear is going for like 2m gold. Or when they're paying us 1m every week for 3 Mythic bosses later in the tier for their vaults.

If it wasn't for the token it would still be there it would just be 100% illicit RMT and if you banned boosting then it would STILL exist because it existed in vanilla before dedicated boosting communities. People don't really care, they just want what they want. Blizzard knows this, and they do their best to ban increasingly sophisticated bots, and it's refreshing that they acknowledged publicly that there is no winning. The best they can hope for is hiding the illicit shit from the general population. That's essentially what the WoW token did, it took the dead gnome bots spelling out advertisements away, it took away most of the gold for $ spam, etc.

The problem with Classic is that RMT is even more rampant and it's completely out in the open. People talk about it in guild discords, people talk about it in-game, it's pretty much just accepted at this point. Back in TBC when it wasn't really feasible to run Gruul every week anymore because only the people who needed DST wanted to go, most of my phys DPS raiders went to GDKPs. When Wrath came out my entire roster of raiders whether they were playing their TBC mains or swapped for Wrath had epic flight on deck and were exalted with Hodir, maxed professions, maximum sweat, raid day one. You think I don't know how they all did that? Periodically a raider will post in our absences channel in discord that Blizzard suspended them for gold buying so they'll be out for 2 weeks. They'll get a lot of "lol" reactions and then other people will tell them where they should be getting their gold from instead.

It is just BLATANT in Classic. You can't even pretend that it's anything else, where with retail you can say "Oh yeah well you know it's not super hard to gold cap lol." - In Classic there's no shot that multiple groups are full of absolutely outstanding AH players with like 100k to spend on a trinket from Sarth.

The truth is that every single multiplayer game that any of us has ever played, or even single player games that are online, has RMT going on. You know Hearthstone? There's RMT for hearthstone lol.

...my issue is mostly the part where he says that the token is good for his business and how he was "clearing up misinformation," by spreading wanton misinformation about what the WoW token represents.

[Takkix]

Meh... It's a work in progress. Not there just yet

[Skylarking]

I'm talking about how instead of believing an incredibly thorough, well-reasoned take from the developers themselves, we're taking the word of some guy who openly admits he 1.) intentionally destroys the gameplay experience of other players for his own profit, 2.) admits openly to tax evasion, and 3.) has a financial motivation to lie to everybody about the nature of botting and the impact of the WoW token. That seems a bit, uhh... what's the word? Oh yeah. Ironic.

whats he lying about

[Thundering]

sadly classic died with the release of tbc.

[Leodric]

The only irony here is that you trust one random fuckwad on reddit more than the developers themselves.

Why wouldn't I? Not the first time Blizzard lied to us. When was the last time again? Oh yes! with the introduction of Tokens in WoW Classic.

[Relapses]

Why wouldn't I? Not the first time Blizzard lied to us. When was the last time again? Oh yes! with the introduction of Tokens in WoW Classic.

The developers doing something that you don't agree with doesn't mean they're lying to everybody. It's exactly like I said. Critical thinking be damned. You just want to hear what you want to hear.

[Inoculate]

Why wouldn't I? Not the first time Blizzard lied to us. When was the last time again? Oh yes! with the introduction of Tokens in WoW Classic.

While I also don't agree with the token, they didn't lie. They officially announced the stance change from #nochanges to #somechanges for wrath classic.

Sucks but it's not deception...just shitty.

[SinR]

>guy admits to flagrantly ruining the game experience for others along with tax evasion and other cryptobro bullshit

"WOW, SUCH A HERO!"

>Blizzard lays out how many bots they've banned in the last 2 weeks and provides in-depth explanation from the developers' perspective

"I can't believe a word these motherfuckers say! DAE Blizzard BAD?!"

I can't with this fucking community man. You guys just want to hear whatever the fuck it is you want to hear.

the classic wow Reddit is pretty much:

"WoW Token Bad"

*3480923409327 UPVOTES*

[Leodric]

The developers doing something that you don't agree with doesn't mean they're lying to everybody.

Of course they lied and damaged the integrity of the game, they said the token is not planned for classic WoW in a blue post.

It's exactly like I said. Critical thinking be damned. You just want to hear what you want to hear.

yep, that's exactly how you react when people are not spouting the same stuff you want to hear, critical thinking be damned.

- - - Updated - - -

While I also don't agree with the token, they didn't lie. They officially announced the stance change from #nochanges to #somechanges for wrath classic.

Sucks but it's not deception...just shitty.

It's still a lie imo, starting with the level boost and now the token. It doesn't make it any better by saying "oh yeah guys we said no changes, but they will be some changes", it's still a lie driven by corporate greed

- - - Updated - - -

whats he lying about

there is always the possibility of him lying of course, but reading everything he wrote makes sense and is also commented by people who know their stuff around botting saying it sounds all legit. Of course @Relapses might have specific stuff he knows about the botter lying, would be very interesting if he could share that with us

[Inoculate]

Well, only thing we all can really do about it is to vote with your wallet. I canceled my d4 preorder, canceled gametime and that's all I really can do.

Hopefully others do the same but most will grumble on inconsequential forums but ultimately keep playing.

Try not to he the latter.

[Dadwen]

While I also don't agree with the token, they didn't lie. They officially announced the stance change from #nochanges to #somechanges for wrath classic.

Sucks but it's not deception...just shitty.

seems to be in direct conflict in with their third pillar when they announced the #somechanges, they didn't lie they just didn't mean what they said??? you don't think outside RMT tokens selling/buying directly Conflict with the world immersion and the economy?