welp they finally did it: WoW Token on Wrath Classic

[Biomega]

Look at the forums and how people react to it, obviously most people are against gold buying

We have no idea about the numbers. We only know they're VOCAL. We also know a helluva lot of people do buy gold. Clearly there's a demand. Even if they're not a majority, that doesn't mean they don't matter.

it destroys the integrity and fun of the game.

In your opinion. That's far from a self-evident truth. To many people, it ADDS to the fun of the game, that's why they keep doing it and have been for 20 years. You can't just handwave that away.

And yes, gold buyers don't matter one bit for me

Well I guess unlike you, I am able to engage honestly with positions I don't share or personally agree with. And I think that people's positions deserve recognition, whether I share them or not. But you're free to just go "I don't care about them, therefore they don't matter", that's your business entirely.

Common sense and looking at the past is more than enough to accuse Blizzard of doing so. They obviously want to profit from the integration of the WoW Token, nothing more.

Common sense should also dictate that these are not binary positions of either they do something good and lose money, or they do something bad and make money. That's not how this works. At all.

[crusadernero]

No, you just want the RDF and you're mad that Blizzard has told you no. And you didn't want the token and Blizzard has added it so you're conflating your own personal desires with the desires of the WoW Classic playerbase at large.



I'm genuinely curious. What would "full-assed" attempts to stop botting look like?



I never said that wasn't the case. I just don't see any contradiction between not adding the RDF because they want to keep Classic the way that it is and adding a WoW token to assuage the growing impact of bots on inflation.

Not really, I can live fine without RDF but the arguments Blizzard used to not implement it is now irrelevant and have no meaning or bearing. In fact, not having RDF directly made WotLK leveling worse off for many players, yet Blizzard refused to add it. Cause of keEp InteGriTy oF tHe gaMe was sooooooo important. It never was.

[rrayy]

Common sense and looking at the past is more than enough to accuse Blizzard of doing so. They obviously want to profit from the integration of the WoW Token, nothing more.

So you don't have any actual proof. Got it. All you ahve is "due, trust me". Again, prove it.,

This is hilariously wrong. They are boosting accounts back up to max lvl and continue. They are losing money on it (paying less than what we in the western world do), but it pays off at the end.

This is hilarious wrong AND naive. The fact that you think they use their own money to buy boosts is hilarious. They NEVER use their own money, so they can't lose it.

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Not really, I can live fine without RDF but the arguments Blizzard used to not implement it is now irrelevant and have no meaning or bearing. In fact, not having RDF directly made WotLK leveling worse off for many players, yet Blizzard refused to add it. Cause of keEp InteGriTy oF tHe gaMe was sooooooo important. It never was.

RDF didn't get introduced until ICC, so yuou can't say not implementing it immediately made leveling worse. YOu were leveling the same way you were when Wrath launched.

[Relapses]

Not really, I can live fine without RDF but the arguments Blizzard used to not implement it is now irrelevant and have no meaning or bearing. In fact, not having RDF directly made WotLK leveling worse off for many players, yet Blizzard refused to add it. Cause of keEp InteGriTy oF tHe gaMe was sooooooo important. It never was.

That's your opinion. The devs disagree with you. Tough shit my guy.

[Dadwen]

Not really, I can live fine without RDF but the arguments Blizzard used to not implement it is now irrelevant and have no meaning or bearing. In fact, not having RDF directly made WotLK leveling worse off for many players, yet Blizzard refused to add it. Cause of keEp InteGriTy oF tHe gaMe was sooooooo important. It never was.

The entire pillars crap was BS from the start (hell every time it hurt PVP they'd ignore it), hell the 3rd one even talks about the economy and immersion, nothing like whipping out the ole CC to keep the immersion huh.

(Blizzard and integrity in the same sentence sure there has to be a punch line in there somewhere).

[Leodric]

We have no idea about the numbers. We only know they're VOCAL. We also know a helluva lot of people do buy gold. Clearly there's a demand. Even if they're not a majority, that doesn't mean they don't matter.

They buy gold because they can, nobody would stop playing because they can't buy gold anymore. In WoWs best time which had over 10 million subscriber boosting and RTM existed, but not nearly as much as now. So your logic falls flat here.

In your opinion. That's far from a self-evident truth. To many people, it ADDS to the fun of the game, that's why they keep doing it and have been for 20 years. You can't just handwave that away.

Many people compared to what? For the most it ruins the fun and is a huge detriment. WoW was never a game for people who enjoy RTM.

Well I guess unlike you, I am able to engage honestly with positions I don't share or personally agree with. And I think that people's positions deserve recognition, whether I share them or not. But you're free to just go "I don't care about them, therefore they don't matter", that's your business entirely.

Well I guess unlike you, I am not delusional thinking what the biggest amount of people want in the game using logic and looking at the past.

Common sense should also dictate that these are not binary positions of either they do something good and lose money, or they do something bad and make money. That's not how this works. At all.

Common sense should also dictate that this is how it works exactly.

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So you don't have any actual proof. Got it. All you ahve is "due, trust me". Again, prove it.,

You are the type of person who will dismiss any type of prove just to stay in their delusional thinking. There is btw a thread on reddit classicwow where a botter explains perfectly well how everything works, there you can find the answers and the prove that I am right about this

This is hilarious wrong AND naive. The fact that you think they use their own money to buy boosts is hilarious. They NEVER use their own money, so they can't lose it.

Yes they use their own money, that's a fact.

[Biomega]

They buy gold because they can

And because they WANT to. Which is why we're in this entire situation.

nobody would stop playing because they can't buy gold anymore.

That's a nonsense argument because that'll never happen. THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT. You can't just stop gold buying completely, not in any practical and implementable way. That's WHY we're talking.

In WoWs best time which had over 10 million subscriber boosting and RTM existed, but not nearly as much as now. So your logic falls flat here.

What falls flat here is the logical jump you're making saying that when WoW had 10m subs it was somehow BECAUSE there was less RMT (which you can't even prove, by the way). This argument is specious from beginning to end, it's a completely vapid sound bite with zero actual meaning.

For the most it ruins the fun and is a huge detriment.

Prove it. This is just another wild assertion where you're talking about things as though they were evident facts. They're not.

Well I guess unlike you, I am not delusional thinking what the biggest amount of people want in the game using logic and looking at the past.

I have no idea what this is supposed to say, it doesn't even make grammatical sense. Could you clarify?

Common sense should also dictate that this is how it works exactly.

Riiiight, so "no you're wrong!", that's the best you can come up with? Yikes.

[Leodric]

And because they WANT to. Which is why we're in this entire situation.

Only because they want to does not mean they would miss it if they could not do it. Your point is they would miss using RMT only because they do it now? I don't see the logic in that.

That's a nonsense argument because that'll never happen. THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT. You can't just stop gold buying completely, not in any practical and implementable way. That's WHY we're talking.

You can, it would be just very unprofitable for Blizzard.

What falls flat here is the logical jump you're making saying that when WoW had 10m subs it was somehow BECAUSE there was less RMT (which you can't even prove, by the way). This argument is specious from beginning to end, it's a completely vapid sound bite with zero actual meaning.

No my point is that RMT isn't as important to people as you make it out to be. People who use RMT now would still play the game even if Blizzard stopped RMT completly

Prove it. This is just another wild assertion where you're talking about things as though they were evident facts. They're not.

Look at the forums and what kind of shitstorm it started. Open your eyes and you can see it for yourself

Riiiight, so "no you're wrong!", that's the best you can come up with? Yikes.

That's what you did? Lmao

[Relapses]

They buy gold because they can, nobody would stop playing because they can't buy gold anymore. In WoWs best time which had over 10 million subscriber boosting and RTM existed, but not nearly as much as now. So your logic falls flat here.

Here are just two articles about gold farming selling in the late '00s:

https://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/17/m...farmers-t.html

https://www.eurogamer.net/gold-tradi...ellers-article

You're wearing rose-tinted glasses. Gold farming/selling was incredibly, stupidly and undeniably popular even during "WoW's best time."

[Leodric]

Here are just two articles about gold farming selling in the late '00s:

https://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/17/m...farmers-t.html

https://www.eurogamer.net/gold-tradi...ellers-article

You're wearing rose-tinted glasses. Gold farming/selling was incredibly, stupidly and undeniably popular even during "WoW's best time."

your first article is behind a pay wall, I can't read it.
Your second article is a joke, just a few quotes:

".... players that buy virtual goods and services is estimated at 30 per cent."

"....In my opinion, the industry would be better served if publishers would recognise that lots of gamers – I've heard it's 30 per cent of the player base – like the benefits of RMT, and work with credible companies and allow it to happen," Extreme Gamer said".

[crewskater]

Here are just two articles about gold farming selling in the late '00s:

https://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/17/m...farmers-t.html

https://www.eurogamer.net/gold-tradi...ellers-article

You're wearing rose-tinted glasses. Gold farming/selling was incredibly, stupidly and undeniably popular even during "WoW's best time."

You misread what he said. Gold buy was a thing back then but it's more popular now.

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Not really, I can live fine without RDF but the arguments Blizzard used to not implement it is now irrelevant and have no meaning or bearing. In fact, not having RDF directly made WotLK leveling worse off for many players, yet Blizzard refused to add it. Cause of keEp InteGriTy oF tHe gaMe was sooooooo important. It never was.

RDF was never intended for leveling.

[Biomega]

Only because they want to does not mean they would miss it if they could not do it. Your point is they would miss using RMT only because they do it now? I don't see the logic in that.

That's not my point. My point is they WANT to buy gold. Everything else is something you've come up with, not me. I make no claims about what would happen in some hypothetical where all RMT was to disappear, because that's not a situation that is realistically ever going to happen. It's useless as an argument.

You can, it would be just very unprofitable for Blizzard.

"Unprofitable" is a disingenuous way of saying this. Completely eradicating RMT would cost inordinate amounts of money, so much it is not economically viable in any way. It's literally burning down the house to get the spider on the wall - sure it'll do it, but the cost is in no proportion to the actual magnitude of the problem. Hence why it's not ever going to happen, and makes no sense to talk about.

No my point is that RMT isn't as important to people as you make it out to be. People who use RMT now would still play the game even if Blizzard stopped RMT completly

Again, that's a useless hypothetical because that's never going to happen. It makes no sense to talk about.

Look at the forums and what kind of shitstorm it started. Open your eyes and you can see it for yourself

All that says is how vocal some people are, not how representative - because for that you'd need equal participation, and you're not getting that. People who don't have a problem with it are magnitudes less likely to ever say anything.

This is an absolutely elementary statistical bias effect. Please don't tell me you've never heard of this.

That's what you did? Lmao

No. What I did was "no you're wrong, and here's why". You only went "no you're wrong". See the difference? I can use colors if that helps.

[Leodric]

your first article is behind a pay wall, I can't read it.
Your second article is a joke, just a few quotes:

".... players that buy virtual goods and services is estimated at 30 per cent."

"....In my opinion, the industry would be better served if publishers would recognise that lots of gamers – I've heard it's 30 per cent of the player base – like the benefits of RMT, and work with credible companies and allow it to happen," Extreme Gamer said".

Furthermore we are talking about World of Warcraft here, as far as I have read the articles are talking about MMOs in general. There are many MMOs, especially in the Asian market where RMT is wanted and accepted, it's a whole diffrent culture there regarding game compared to the western market.

[Inoculate]

At this point, just let classic realms just buy the gear from the shop. Saves players time and money and cuts out the gdkp runs taking a cut from blizzard.

[Leodric]

That's not my point. My point is they WANT to buy gold. Everything else is something you've come up with, not me. I make no claims about what would happen in some hypothetical where all RMT was to disappear, because that's not a situation that is realistically ever going to happen. It's useless as an argument.

Obviously nobody is forcing anyone to buy gold, if there is a way to cheat people will do it, doesn't matter what game it is.

"Unprofitable" is a disingenuous way of saying this. Completely eradicating RMT would cost inordinate amounts of money, so much it is not economically viable in any way. It's literally burning down the house to get the spider on the wall - sure it'll do it, but the cost is in no proportion to the actual magnitude of the problem. Hence why it's not ever going to happen, and makes no sense to talk about.

With modern methods it's not as hard as you make it out be. Blizzard is just too lazy to implement these solutions.

Again, that's a useless hypothetical because that's never going to happen. It makes no sense to talk about.

It can if they would actually care for their customers, but that Blizzard is long dead.

All that says is how vocal some people are, not how representative - because for that you'd need equal participation, and you're not getting that. People who don't have a problem with it are magnitudes less likely to ever say anything.

This is an absolutely elementary statistical bias effect. Please don't tell me you've never heard of this.

That would be true if we talk about only one forum or website, but you can see it everywhere, even in game. Your logic is if someone is not stating their frustration over something than they are fine with it, most people just quit if they are fed up with something.

No. What I did was "no you're wrong, and here's why". You only went "no you're wrong". See the difference? I can use colors if that helps.

your "here's why" is pulled out of the thin air without any evidence to back it up, so yeah "no you're wrong" applies here as well.

[xuros]

Finally gives me something to spend gold on.

[Noxina]

Lets be fair, adding tokens to the game was one of the best decisions against gold selling they ever did. Classic has been insane with gold sellers/buyers (my whole guild spent a TON of money back in Vanilla Classic just to do top parses..)

[Leodric]

Lets be fair, adding tokens to the game was one of the best decisions against gold selling they ever did. Classic has been insane with gold sellers/buyers (my whole guild spent a TON of money back in Vanilla Classic just to do top parses..)

I never bought gold but don't you think people will still keep buying from third party websites because it's cheaper? Especially if you buy tons of it

[xuros]

I never bought gold but don't you think people will still keep buying from third party websites because it's cheaper? Especially if you buy tons of it

Some will. I'm sure that lots who bought gold offsite were on pins and needles expecting their accounts to be banned any day now. I think those types would move to the token for that peace of mind for a bit more cost.

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You misread what he said. Gold buy was a thing back then but it's more popular now.

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RDF was never intended for leveling.

I think he meant the Group Finder. Not Raid Finder.

[Biomega]

With modern methods it's not as hard as you make it out be. Blizzard is just too lazy to implement these solutions.
[...]
It can if they would actually care for their customers, but that Blizzard is long dead.

Be honest - you're not interested in ACTUALLY discussing this, you just want to shit on Blizzard.

No game that has these kinds of problems has managed to come up with a practical solution to just stop all forms of RMT. I guess they're all just "lazy". Random MMOC forum hero knows best, as always.

That would be true if we talk about only one forum or website, but you can see it everywhere, even in game. Your logic is if someone is not stating their frustration over something than they are fine with it, most people just quit if they are fed up with something.

I'm not sure what you're saying. On the one hand you're saying people are complaining, on the other hand you're also saying people aren't complaining they just quit.

Methinks you don't really know what you're talking about here...

your "here's why" is pulled out of the thin air without any evidence to back it up, so yeah "no you're wrong" applies here as well.

But it had reasoning, whereas yours was... just "no you're wrong". I'm not sure why you're digging this hole deeper and deeper, you literally have no leg to stand on.