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    11.0 - The Hour of Twilight Is At Hand—the Void Comes for Azeroth!

    THE HOUR OF TWILIGHT IS AT HAND

    (NEW!) TL;DR

    I've decided to add a super short TL;DR just to get my idea across a bit faster. But please do read the entire post if you're interested in my evidence and lots of details.

    • In TBC, WoD, and Legion, Sargeras and the Burning Legion tried to kill Azeroth's world-soul.
    • In WotLK, BFA, and Shadowlands, the Jailer and the forces of Death tried to use Azeroth's world-soul to recreate reality.
    • In Cata, DF, and 11.0, the Old Gods will corrupt Azeroth in an attempt to bring about the Hour of Twilight and possibly turn her into a Dark Titan.
    • Therefore, the next expansion (11.0) will be heavily themed around the Void and possibly the elements. There is a good chance for a world revamp of some kind to along with all of this, and Thrall will probably be one of the most important characters featured in the expansion.

    Overview

    This is a theory I'd like to lay out for you. The theory says that while we've encountered and defeated all of the (known) Old Gods, we are now hurtling towards their ultimate endgame.

    The grand finale of the prophecy—the Hour of Twilight.

    The Hour of Twilight

    I invite you to read up on this world-ending event before going any further. But to summarise it, the Hour of Twilight is a prophesied event in which the universe will be consumed by the Void. It'll begin on Azeroth, as the Old Gods rise from their prisons and conquer our world, twisting it into their dark vision.

    While we've already kind of experienced one version of the Hour of Twilight (and prevented it) back in Cataclysm, I'm here to argue that the real one is still looming on the horizon. Although it remains to be seen just exactly what the Hour of Twilight means. It's not unusual for Blizzard to develop their lore around a particular topic over time, especially when it comes into focus for an expansion or two (they did this with both the Burning Legion and the Lich King's undead).

    The Dark Titan

    It is also possible that The Hour of Twilight isn't on the cards anymore, or that its meaning has simply changed. What we could be looking at is an attempt by the Old Gods to turn Azeroth into a Dark Titan. As you may be aware, Sargeras killed a world-soul with his sword long ago, because it had been almost entirely corrupted by Old Gods.

    When he told the other titans of the Pantheon about it, they chastised him and argued that the world-soul could have been saved. That's when Sargeras left to form the Burning Legion.

    If the Old Gods have been able to fully corrupt Azeroth at the end of Dragonflight, our mission might be to cleanse her of all corruption in order to save her (and ourselves).

    The Six

    As you may be aware, there are six known cosmic forces vying for dominance of the universe.

    The three we conventionally consider to be 'good' are Light, Life, and Order. These are represented by factions like the Titans, Elune and the Green dragonflight, the Naaru, and so on. We typically work together with them in order to prevent the other three forces from taking over, usually in a defensive position.

    The other three are the 'bad' ones according to conventional wisdom (although the nature of good and evil is being explored more and more in the current lore). These are: Shadow (or the Void), Death, and Disorder. We usually see these represented by the villains of the game, such as Sargeras and his Burning Legion, the Old Gods, the Jailer and the Lich King, etc.

    In-between, there are other forces, such as the elements.

    The Dragons

    The Dragons can be thought of as an evolution of the Protodragons of Azeroth, which were originally Elemental in nature. Tyr, the Titan keeper who we've met in Dragonflight, imbued Alexstrasza, Neltharion, Ysera, Malygos, and Nozdormu with the power of the Titans.

    He then entrusted them with a very important mission: protect Azeroth, now and always. The Titans' primary enemy on Azeroth had been the Old Gods. The Old Gods' ultimate goal was to carry out the Hour of Twilight, described above. Therefore, it would inevitably come to be that the Dragon Aspects had to ensure the prophecy could never come to pass. They had to prevent the Hour of Twilight.

    The Aspects each gained control of some of the most important forces at play on Azeroth: Nature, Life, Time, Magic, and the earth itself. By protecting and watching over these five fundamental forces, Azeroth could be kept stable, strong, safe, and viable for life. Interestingly, these are all assosciated with the cosmic forces of Order and Life, and then Elemental magic. The force of Light, however, doesn't seem to have a natural representative amongst the Dragonflights. But I digress.

    As we can see in the final cutscene from the Hour of Twilight back in Cataclysm, upon realising that they had carried out their sacred charge, the Dragon Aspect all gave up (or lost) their powers. Their job was done, for now.

    I stress this point, because I think it's vital to understand the purpose of the Dragons if you want to predict the future.

    Trilogy of Trilogies

    As I've argued in the past, there seems to be a narrative pattern of sorts going on with newer expansions.

    First, Blizzard released The Burning Crusade, Wrath of the Lich King, Cataclysm, and Mists of Pandaria. Each with its own distinct theme and story. Each very much a self-contained narrative with a clear beginning, middle, and end.

    They each explored and expanded upon a story from Warcraft 1, 2, and 3. It's quite notable how The Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King went straight for the story content of Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne, which was immensely popular at the time. Then once those were done, you can kind of tell that Blizzard started to try new things and create a lot of new lore from rather sparse source content, with Cataclysm and Mists of Pandaria. (This might be part of the reason why subscription numbers dwindled at the time, since players coming from the Warcraft 3 era didn't feel as strongly about this lore.)

    When we defeated Kil'jaeden, we moved on to something very different with Arthas, and then again with Deathwing, and finally the Sha. We opened up a book of the Warcraft Saga, read it through, and then neatly put it back on the shelf, before moving on to the next book.

    But when Warlords of Draenor and Legion came out, these two expansions seemed to focus primarily on the Burning Legion, with recurring characters, locations, story elements, themes, and villains from The Burning Crusade. Even though The Burning Crusade was probably written without a clear idea of Warlords of Draenor and Legion in mind at the time, I still think it's fine to think of them as part of the same trilogy. Because Warlords of Draenor definitely picks up where The Burning Crusade left off, and then leads straight into Legion with Gul'dan serving as the link to bridge the two. They're all about the heroes of Azeroth travelling across the Twisting Nether to ultimately defeat Archimonde, Kil'jaeden, Sargeras, and the Burning Legion. It is the Disorder Trilogy, in which we stop Sargeras from attempting to kill Azeroth in his efforts to prevent her corruption by the Void.

    Before anyone mentions it, yes—I know Kairoz and Garrosh were responsible for Warlords of Draenor. So technically, Mists of Pandaria could be seen as part of the overarching Burning Legion story that culminated in Legion. However, I think this can be attributed to the fact that this was right at the start of this new developer mindset of theirs. The idea of going back to create two sequels for each of their original expansions probably wasn't something they fully considered until after Mists of Pandaria had been made. But it's probably something that matured over the next few years amid dwindling subscription numbers.

    Then the same thing happened in Battle for Azeroth and Shadowlands, both of which seemed not only to pick up where Wrath of the Lich King left off rather than where Legion ended, but also further progressed that story of death, mourning, and vengeance. We saw people like Jaina, Uther, and Sylvanas deal with the aftermath of Arthas' legacy, and how it impacted their lives. Perhaps Sylvanas most of all, who burned down Teldrassil and started a war between the Horde and Alliance so she could funnel souls into the Maw. But we also saw who was ultimately behind it all, the Jailer, and we went where lost souls go. In this trilogy, Death was the cosmic force in focus. Let's call it the Death Trilogy, our grand quest to prevent the Jailer from using Azeroth's world-soul to recreate all reality.

    Oh. Remember when Steve Danuser described patch 9.2 (Eternity's End) at the "final chapter of one book of the Warcraft saga, going back to Warcraft 3"? That's right. Because it ended the trilogy we just talked about.

    Now we're in Dragonflight, and the pattern seems to be continuing. We're dealing with Deathwing's legacy, we're restoring power to the Dragon Aspects (interesting timing), and we're seeing the elements in turmoil once again. Like in Cataclysm, we're also getting some not very subtle nods to the Void, which is the main enemy of the Dragon Aspects after all. We're seeing it in the form of Neltharion's corruption, Sarkareth's secret Masters, Iridrikron's possible source of power, and of course Shadowflame.

    Now the question must be asked, will the next expansion also follow in this pattern, and act as the final chapter to the current trilogy? If it is, 11.0 should be an expansion focused on the cosmic force of Shadow (Void). I will presume this is the Shadow Trilogy, the story of how Azeroth's heroes stop the Old Gods from corrupting Azeroth's worl-soul and causing the Hour of Twilight, and possibly turning her into a Dark Titan.

    (As for Mists of Pandaria, it remains to be seen whether 12.0 and 13.0 will be its direct sequels, or if Blizzard will treat this one differently. While Pandaria did have its share of Old God and Burning Legion influence, the soul of the expansion wasn't really about any cosmic force. It was meant to be a pause from all the doom and gloom. So I could see "Pandaria 2" as simply another one-off breather of an expansion. Who knows, perhaps it'll take us alongside the Pirate Armada on a daring expedition to Avaloren, in search of the Nightsquall?)

    The Whispers

    Over the years, we've seen a number of whispers, and written texts which seem to offer cryptic knowledge about past, present, and future. Some of the sources for these include Il'gynoth, Xal'atath, N'Zoth, Yogg-Saron, C'thun, Y'shaarj, the Puzzle-Box of Yogg-Saron, Ogmot's Dream Journal, Uu'nat, and Varimathras. Now that a few years have passed since most of them appeared in-game, we are able to place them in chronological order based on events that have taken place. A few new ones have actually appeared in Dragonflight as well, mostly found on books and such.

    What we find is that collectively, all of these clues actually tell the narrative of World of Warcraft over the past decade. A kind of prophecy, if you will. I'm not going to include all of them, because there's a lot of repeating the same point, and a number of them are just stating plain facts or too abstract for anybody to really make sense of.

    "So, your Alliance still endures. Longer than I expected, though she has already planted the seeds of its downfall. She is patient, that one. When your thrones run red with betrayal... when your holy places burn and the shattered mask hangs above your hearth... only then you will know. And it will be too late. It matters not. You are blind to the true darkness closing in around you."
    "So, she found me at last. Sent her underlings to finish the job. Tell me, when she seized your throne of hides and bones, was your allegiance forced? No... I'd wager you surrendered it willingly... or were convinced you did. It matters not. You are blind to the darkness in your midst."
    Here, Varimathras speaks of Sylvanas whom Vol'jin made Warchief because of the Jailer's corrupting influence. Just as he foretold, she did wage a war and at one point even considered invading Stormwind.

    "N'Zoth... I journey... to Ny'alotha..."
    "The king of diamonds has been made a pawn."
    "It appears the prison of N’zoth is not as strong as it once was. What you see is a tiny growth of the behemoth that may yet consume your world."
    "To find him, drown yourself in the circle of stars."
    "The fall of night reveals her true face. She will bring only ruin."
    We've moved on to Battle for Azeroth, and just as the whispers say, Magni inadvertedly guided us to N'zoth and ensured the Old Gods' release from his prison. Right at the end, Sylvanas finally revealed her true allegiance at the gates of Orgrimmar.

    "The veil wanes. His crown will open the way."
    "When their mistress beckons, nine ravens take flight. Each seeks a prize to earn her favor."
    "The golden one claims a vacant throne. The crown of light will bring only darkness."
    "The boy-king serves at the master's table. Three lies will he offer you."
    "Death... claims... us all."
    "When the arrow finds its mark, the last fetter will fall away."
    "Five keys to open our way. Five torches to light our path."
    "Before the last shadow falls, the father of sleep shall savor his feast."
    Indeed, Sylvanas' defeat of the Lich King did open the way to the Shadowlands, after which her Val'kyr kidnapped important leaders of the Horde and Alliance. In Anduin's absence, Turalyon reigns over Stormwind. In the end, the Pillars of Creation and the Sigils were the reason Death and Disorder were unleashed and ultimately defeated. (Although it should be said that the torches could also refer to destroyed and corrupted World Trees.)

    The quote about Mueh'zala (the Father of Sleep) is interesting, because it seems to imply there is yet another Shadow (or Old God) that has to fall after the events of Shadowlands. But who knows.

    Now, this is where things get interesting. Now we're approaching current and future content.

    "Beneath the shadow of the darkened spire, there is no light, no mercy, only void, and the chaos within."
    Sounds an awful lot like a description of Tyrhold, doesn't it? We even know Zarelek Cavern lies underneath. But what else could there be?

    "While they toil in the deep places, we will journey to the shores of dragon lands, to the blessed isle where the Worldbreaker first embraced the whispers."
    This further supports the idea that there is something dark beneath the Dragon Isles, since it has a close connection to the Old Gods or the Void in general. We know N'Zoth is the one who corrupted Deathwing, and N'Zoth's domain was underneath of what is now the Eastern Kingdoms.

    By the way, remember that original concept art for the Dragon Isles from back in Vanilla? It had a massive temple on it, which looked Old God-inspired.

    "Five lanterns now darkened. The flames they seek will light the Masters' way."
    The Dragon Aspects are each seeking to light their lanterns, both figuratively and literally (the Oathstones), in Dragonflight. Will the Dragon Aspects' empowerment nudge us one step closer to the Hour of Twilight?

    "The giant rook watches from the dead trees. Nothing breathes beneath his shadow."
    Looks suspiciously like a description of Murozond if you look at the recent trailer, in which he is perched menacingly among the dead trees.

    "The vassal of life disguises treachery. Beware the eyes of green."
    Sounds a bit like Ysera, or another member of the Green dragonflight. We're probably going into the Emerald Dream in the next major patch. I wonder what'll happen there.

    "Her heart is a crater, and we have filled it."
    "Its surface blazes bright, masking shadows below."
    "From the earth, he draws strength. Our earth. Our strength."
    These all seem to imply that Azeroth has indeed become corrupted by the Old Gods. The one who draws his strength from the earth could be Iridikron. Like Neltharion before him, he has a connection with the earth. What does that connection do if the planet is filled with Void energies?

    "The Harbinger speaks of a primal power that seeks the end of Order. Such rage can be bent to serve our ends."
    Iridikron has a primal power, but does he seek to end Order? Perhaps, since Order is behind the Dragon Aspects.

    "At the hour of her third death, she will usher in our coming."
    By the looks of it, Azeroth figuratively died (and bled Azerite) first when Aman'Thul ripped Y'Shaarj out of the planet, then again when Sargeras stabbed her with his blade. Ironically, both times Azeroth "died" were at the hands of a Titan. First Aman'thul trying to prevent her corruption, then Sargeras trying to preemptively destroy her before she became corrupted.

    It's possible to look at the Sundering and the Shattering as two "deaths", but these likely damaged the planet surface moreso than Azeroth herself. They caused havoc among the elements, but since Azeroth didn't bleed as a result we can't know for sure if she took any harm.

    "As one storm recedes, another rises. The torches have been lit. The secrets he buried will strike as a dagger into the hearts of his kin!"
    The torches may be the Pillars of Creation, but it would also mean the Oathstones, or even the World Trees. Four World Trees have been destroyed or corrupted by the Old Gods, and only Nordrassil remains. They attempted to destroy that in Cataclysm, through Ragnaros. The new one growing inside the Emerald Dream was attacked by the Primalists recently as well.

    "A dark heart left broken awaits the taking."
    This could refer to Azeroth, whose heart according to my theory has been filled with the Void. But it could also speak of Queen Alexstrazsa, who is perhaps the one most at risk from emotional harm by Deathwing's betrayal and everything that has followed it.

    "The lord of ravens will turn the key."
    Who is the Lord of Ravens, and what key will he turn? Khadgar, apprentice of Medivh, could be the one. But why would he? Odyn, sometimes seen with his two ravens, could also be the one. He has a history with both the Dragon Aspects and the Old Gods. Might Xal'atath be the key, since it now contains the essence of N'zoth?

    Alas, the finer details of future lore are hard to predict. What's reasonable to assume is that some crucial event will take place during Dragonflight, setting the rest of it in motion.

    "When these things come to pass, the Harbinger will fulfill the final prophecy and complete the awakening. Only then shall our Queen return to reign over sea and sky and earth. We must make ready. Rise, rise! Soon all that was hidden will be revealed."
    Will Queen Azshara be the one to rule over Azeroth once the prophecy has been fulfilled? The question now remains, is the Awakening going to be that of a Dark Titan, or will a Void Lord rise from Azeroth's ashes?

    Either way, this is an interesting callback to several whispers about eyes being opened.

    Why is N'Zoth so Special, Anyway?

    All the different Old Gods have powers beyond measure, and have played large roles in shaping the history of Azeroth. Mostly through corruption, violence and mindgames.

    The reasons N'Zoth stands out are several. But to name a couple:

    • He was the Old God we faced last, having been hidden away on the bottom of the sea for millennia.
    • He was the only one to actually bring us into his realm, Ny'Alotha. While we don't fully know whether this was some type of illusion or not, it was still more grandiose than what any of his brothers achieved.
    • He has arguably been involved with more events than the other Old Gods throughout history, for example by corrupting Deathwing, creating Queen Azshara and her Naga, and defiling the Emerald Dream once he had gotten access through Yogg-Saron.
    • He has been described as the weakest of the Old Gods, but the one who tends to come out on top in the end.
    • As far as we know, he currently resides within Xal'atath, and as such seems to have outwitted us.
    • His domain on Ancient Kalimdor was to the east, roughly where the Eastern Kingdoms sit. So it is quite likely he is the Old God with the biggest presence around the Dragon Isles (with Yogg-Saron being next in line, due to the proximity of Northrend).

    "It was here in ages past that the God of the Deep lost a great battle to the God of Seven Heads. But as was so often the case even defeat ultimately worked in N'zoth's favor."
    "It is ironic that the weakest of us may be the ultimate victor. C'Thun, Yogg-Saron, Y'Shaarj, and... well. Only one would remain to consume the world, that was always meant to be."
    Time will tell, but if I had to wager a guess, I'd say N'Zoth is the chief architect behind the events currently unfolding, and the main villain or instigator of the next expansion.

    A Quick Word on a World Revamp

    A lot of people, myself included, believe the next expansion will bring about a World Revamp of some kind. There are many clues which seem to suggest as much (I've listed many of them in my other thread on the topic).

    But as it relates to Cataclysm and Dragonflight, it does seem very likely that 11.0 brings a World Revamp. It's one of the last components of Cataclysm which has yet to appear in Dragonflight, so 11.0 has big shoes to fill.

    Because we're discussing the potential for massive changes to Azeroth, whether from the Void wreaking havoc, a Titan breaking free, or the elements being unruly, there's a lot speaking for it.

    We've also seen Thrall on the BlizzCon poster, and we all know Thrall is both a major character in Cataclysm, and the World Shaman. He would be instrumental in an expansion concerning sweeping changes to the world itself, and perhaps having to heal or purge Azeroth from corruption.

    But for further detail on the topic, please see my other thread linked above.

    The Prophecy in TL;DR

    I believe the "prophecy", if we can call it that, has taken us through several important events that needed to come to pass.

    • Each Old God had to be freed and killed.
    • The Burning Legion had to be defeated.
    • The forces of Death had to be defeated.
    • N'Zoth had to preserve his essence inside the dagger.
    • We had to use the Pillars of Creation and the Sigils.
    • The Oathstones had to be rekindled.
    • (Maybe) The World Trees had to burn.

    What this has resulted in, practically speaking, is that the cosmic forces of Disorder and Death are no longer able to compete with Shadow (Void) over consuming Azeroth.

    Additionally, the forces of Light and Order have both been hamstrung (it is unknown to what degree) by the events of the recent battles. For example, Xe'ra was killed by Illidan and her forces have been drained in their long struggle against the Burning Legion. The Titans are busy keeping Sargeras imprisoned. (This point was added after a great comment from Varodoc, because I think it's worth mentioning in this context.)

    It means we, Azeroth's protectors, are blind to the looming danger.

    It means N'Zoth might be the last Old God, to consume Azeroth and then all of creation.

    It might mean any remaining obstacles have now been cleared for the Old Gods' re-emergence.

    The Future

    Now that you've stuck with me this far, it's time to arrive at some type of a prediction for the next year of WoW.

    Like I've said, specifics are very hard to predict. But we can get a general idea of where things are headed.

    In this thread, I've outlined why a "Cataclysm, Part 3" seems likely to be the next expansion. I've explained why a World Revamp could be on the table, and that the Old Gods seem to be fulfilling a prophecy which has been teased to us for the better part of a decade.

    The coming weeks and months will be pivotal in terms of where this goes next. But I think it's likely the story of Nozdormu and Murozond will have a very large impact on everything. Then after that, 10.1.7 and 10.2 will continue this trend once we visit the Emerald Dream and explore further the nature of Elune, the Green dragonflight, and the World Trees.

    We know so far that the Blue dragonflight has resolved its arc by coming back from the brink, letting go of its troubled past, and coming together as a family once more. The Black dragonflight meanwhile (including the Dracthyr), has also somewhat made peace with its past, and found itself a new leader. The Bronze will probably settle their affairs with the Infinite dragonflight, and solve the mystery of Murozond once and for all, while the Green find their new place under the watchful eye of Elune, perhaps as caretakers of the new World Tree. The Red, however, is anybody's guess. I think their resolution will be last, probably in 10.3.

    It's important to remind ourselves that because the cosmic forces of Disorder and Death have been defeated (or at least rendered toothless), and both Order and Light were severely set back by the events of Legion, although victorious, Life might be the last remaining force to truly oppose Shadow (Void). Will Life fall, or will it endure? Perhaps the answer is more nuanced, and we'll see Shadow achieve its goals and bring about the Hour of Twilight even if it is unable to end Life.

    Lastly for Dragonflight, I believe in some type of culmination in which Queen Alexstrasza plays the biggest role. Will she suddenly fall to darkness in despair over her fallen kin, or will she shine as a radiant beacon and lead the charge against the Void? After all, although her sister Ysera has always been the protector of Nature and therefore more assosciated with the Emerald Dream, Alexstrasza is the Life-binder. This is important to remember.

    Will the Twilight, Chromatic, or even the Infinite Dragonflights turn the tide in our favour? Might the Primal Incarnates play a role, and will any of them side with the Dragons in the end?

    Something momentous will happen to set the next expansion and the potential World Revamp in motion. I'm alluding to Azeroth's third death, and N'Zoth coming out from the shadows.

    My Prediction

    The Primalist Incarnates will assault the Emerald Dream with the Primalists in tow, attempting to overthrow the guardians of Life and destroy the new World Tree. They will likely succeed in setting the Hour of Twilight in motion, but not in destroying the Emerald Dream or its inhabitants. It'll be a partial victory for us.

    At BlizzCon, Chris Metzen will be onstage and talk about 30 years of Warcraft, and 20 years of WoW. He'll take part in announcing the 10th expansion, which is headlined by Thrall as the World Shaman.

    The Hour of Twilight will either be a 10.3 affair, paving the way for a World Revamp in 11.0, or we'll have to wait until 11.0 for it.

    But there will be large changes to the world as we know it. You might call it a World Revamp, or it'll look different than that. Perhaps we're forced to settle in a new version of Azeroth entirely. Maybe our future lies back in time, or inside a different timeline. Perhaps the Word Revamp only happens at the end of the expansion, once we've saved Azeroth?

    I hope you're as excited as I am for the HOUR OF TWILIGHT.

    Bonus: the Name of the Expansion

    Let's have some fun by predicting the name of World of Warcraft's next expansion.

    I'm going to submit these guesses:

    • World of Warcraft: Awakenings
    • World of Warcraft: Primal
    • World of Warcraft: Twilight
    • World of Warcraft: Shadow of Azeroth
    • World of Warcraft: Dark Titan
    • World of Warcraft: Azeroth
    • World of Warcraft: Elemental
    • World of Warcraft: Hour of Twilight

    I hope you enjoyed reading. I might add more clues and refine the text over time.

    Last edited by Worldshaper; 2023-07-07 at 06:21 PM.

  2. #2
    Well that was a healthy read. I hope you’re on to something, you’ve painted a vivid portrait and I wouldn’t mind a more grim / dark xpac after this one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Iliyra View Post
    And yet here we are.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Tripz View Post
    Well that was a healthy read. I hope you’re on to something, you’ve painted a vivid portrait and I wouldn’t mind a more grim / dark xpac after this one.
    Thanks!

    It's a bit of a read, but I felt laying a solid foundation for the argument I'm making was necesarry. It's a wild theory, but one I feel like has a pretty high chance of being right.

  4. #4
    I would like this because I think it would put us on track for warcrafts ultimate finale. Rather than drag this out with filler, end the grand cosmic story of WoW at a high point and from there on do whatever filler adventures you want.

    As I see it, once Azeroth is born there's no going back. She's born at the end of the next (your) expac with us having cleansed her, and the final expac (12.0) is her leading us, the army that has been drawn to her since WC1 whether we knew it or not, to destroy the void lords. Along the way we go to the other titans and maybe recruit sargeras (which is to say, convince to join us by fighting him alongside Azeroth in a raid) for the ultimate showdown for the fate of the universe.

    I'm imaging the final raid having these collosal planet sized titans fighting the void lords in the background while we do the raid.
    Last edited by Wazooty; 2023-07-04 at 04:04 AM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Wazooty View Post
    I would like this because I think it would put us on track for warcrafts ultimate finale. Rather than drag this out with filler, end the grand cosmic story of WoW at a high point and from there on do whatever filler adventures you want.

    As I see it, once Azeroth is born there's no going back. She's born at the end of the next (your) expac with us having cleansed her, and the final expac (12.0) is her leading us, the army that has been drawn to her since WC1 whether we knew it or not, to destroy the void lords. Along the way we go to the other titans and maybe recruit sargeras in the this ultimate showdown for the fate of the universe.

    I'm imaging the final raid having these collosal planet sized titans fighting the void lords in the background while we do the raid.
    Interesting ideas. Would be fun to watch that play out!

    I'm not sure if Blizzard would want to stop making expansion packs after the next one, but if they did revamp Azeroth and turned it into an evergreen playground where they could place lots of new stories and features over the next few years, then I could maybe see them switch to a DLC model.

    In a world where giant investments like Overwatch 2 fail, it would probably be in their interest to keep a game like WoW going.

  6. #6
    Old God Soon-TM's Avatar
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    It was a really interesting bit, especially with me being a sucker for Ilgy boi's quotes. I'd love to see a purely Old God/Void xpac, those were the only bits I enjoyed in the otherwise awful story of BfA.
    Quote Originally Posted by trimble View Post
    WoD was the expansion that was targeted at non raiders.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    It was a really interesting bit, especially with me being a sucker for Ilgy boi's quotes. I'd love to see a purely Old God/Void xpac, those were the only bits I enjoyed in the otherwise awful story of BfA.
    Thanks!

    I've always enjoyed musing about those whispers as well.

    While I don't think the next expansion will be 100% Old God/Void, I'm sure you'll get your fill. There will probabl be some Elemental content in there as well, and I don't see them doing a World Revamp which is all doom and gloom. Zones need to feel inviting.

  8. #8
    It all comes down to two quotes from Xal'atath, in reference to the Old God N'Zoth. They are the key to understanding the smartest and most cunning Old God:

    It was here in ages past that the God of the Deep lost a great battle to the God of Seven Heads. But as was so often the case even defeat ultimately worked in N'zoth's favor.
    It is ironic that the weakest of us may be the ultimate victor. C'Thun, Yogg-Saron, Y'Shaarj, and... well. Only one would remain to consume the world, that was always meant to be.

    Indeed, when you look at the facts, N'Zoth is the deadliest Old God. No other Old God has come close to its accomplishments. Through manipulations and subversions spanning millennia, N'Zoth was the only Old God who shattered the Titanic prisons. Through its newfound form, N'Zoth was the only Old God who came close to corrupting the World Soul and completing its original purpose.

    Now, when you consider that N'Zoth explicitly demanded the empty blade from Xal'atath, and that it also allowed the imprisoned Azshara to keep the blade (why would jailer allow prisoner to keep weapon?!), it all makes perfect sense.

    N'Zoth lives on inside the Blade, waiting for the right opportunity to strike. The players did its bidding by defeating Death in the last expansion, now there is truly no one who can stop N'Zoth. The Legion is defeated, Death is defeated, the Light (Xe'ra) is defeated and its army is off-world, and the Titans are busy keeping Sargeras jailed. In Dragonflight, N'Zoth's puppets, the Primalists, seek to attack the Emerald Dream, to annihilate the power of Life for their true master.

    With Death's defeat in the last expansion and the Primalists threatening the Emerald Dream in this expansion, the path is truly paved for N'Zoth's ultimate victory, there is truly no force left in the grand Cosmic game that can stop N'Zoth.
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2023-07-04 at 04:56 PM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    It all comes down to two quotes from Xal'atath, in reference to the Old God N'Zoth. They are the key to understanding the smartest and most cunning Old God:






    Indeed, when you look at the facts, N'Zoth is the deadliest Old God. No other Old God has come close to its accomplishments. Through manipulations and subversions spanning millennia, N'Zoth was the only Old God who shattered the Titanic prisons. Through its newfound form, N'Zoth was the only Old God who came close to corrupting the World Soul and completing its original purpose.

    Now, when you consider that N'Zoth explicitly demanded the empty blade from Xal'atath, and that it also allowed the imprisoned Azshara to keep the blade (why would jailer allow prisoner to keep weapon?!), it all makes perfect sense.

    N'Zoth lives on inside the Blade, waiting for the right opportunity to strike. The players did its bidding by defeating Death in the last expansion, now there is truly no one who can stop N'Zoth. The Legion is defeated, Death is defeated, the Light (Xe'ra) is defeated and its army is off-world, and the Titans are busy keeping Sargeras jailed. In Dragonflight, N'Zoth's puppets, the Primalists, seek to attack the Emerald Dream, to annihilate the power of Life for their true master.

    With Death's defeat in the last expansion and the Primalists threatening the Emerald Dream in this expansion, the path is truly paved for N'Zoth's ultimate victory, there is truly no force left in the grand Cosmic game that can stop N'Zoth.
    Great quotes, and excellent additions to the discussion. I had those quotes in mind when writing, but I should include them to the OP.

    I agree with almost everything you say, except that I do not think the Light or Order is in any way defeated. They're probably not at their full might right now, but they are both victors of their recent battles. Their champions are also very much still active in the great cosmic struggle, including the player character, various Keepers, the Dragon Aspects, and the Army of Light. Turalyon even sits as Regent of Stormwind right now, effectively making him the most powerful person on Azeroth where all of this will play out.

    But again, agree with everything else and I appreciate how clearly you convey your points about the Emerald Dream being their next target.

    I wish I knew what Nordrassil's role will be. Because if you take the quotes about Torches to mean the World Trees, then they should attempt to burn it down. Teldrassil burned, and Thrall actually had a vision of Nordrassil burning back in the Cataclysm version of the Hour of Twilight. So we'll see what happens there.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    Great quotes, and excellent additions to the discussion. I had those quotes in mind when writing, but I should include them to the OP.

    I agree with almost everything you say, except that I do not think the Light or Order is in any way defeated. They're probably not at their full might right now, but they are both victors of their recent battles. Their champions are also very much still active in the great cosmic struggle, including the player character, various Keepers, the Dragon Aspects, and the Army of Light. Turalyon even sits as Regent of Stormwind right now, effectively making him the most powerful person on Azeroth where all of this will play out.

    But again, agree with everything else and I appreciate how clearly you convey your points about the Emerald Dream being their next target.

    I wish I knew what Nordrassil's role will be. Because if you take the quotes about Torches to mean the World Trees, then they should attempt to burn it down. Teldrassil burned, and Thrall actually had a vision of Nordrassil burning back in the Cataclysm version of the Hour of Twilight. So we'll see what happens there.
    The leaders of their pantheons are incapable of doing anything. Xe'ra, who was the Prime Naaru, was oneshot by Illidan, a glorified mortal. The Titan Pantheon are incapacitated as their combined power is required to keep Sargeras jailed. Unless Blizzard brings back Sargeras to give him redemption arc (which would be hilarious since he literally tried to wipe out entire Cosmos), then the Pantheon are also unable to do anything against N'Zoth, because then Sargeras will break free.

    That's why, when people think of "Light expansion", they ALWAYS bring up Yrel and the Lightbound. They are the only relevant Light forces. The Light forces in the MU are too weak to do anything. Turalyon and his Lightforged are a small force in the Alliance, the rest of the Army must be weak and exhausted after the Burning Crusade. Indeed, the bulk of the army would have been wiped out in 7.3 if the Vindicaar/Azeroth forces weren't there to save them.

    Unless Yrel and the Lightbound come into MU, then the Light is too weak to do anything against the Void. They cannot compare. They fought in the Burning Crusade for 10,000 years, while the armies of the Void were biding their time, building up their strength. Now we seen the end result. The Light army is reduced to a few spaceships, while the Void army continues to grow, as we can see many Old God-infested planets from the skybox of Telogrus Rift and the Nightborne Augur raid fight.

    I wish I knew what Nordrassil's role will be. Because if you take the quotes about Torches to mean the World Trees, then they should attempt to burn it down. Teldrassil burned, and Thrall actually had a vision of Nordrassil burning back in the Cataclysm version of the Hour of Twilight. So we'll see what happens there.
    I think that the torches are the Dragonflight oathstones, not only because it aligns with the expansion, but also because they literally are torches that were illuminated again in this expansion's questing experience.

    It is also factual that N'Zoth hates Nordrassil, that's why he ordered his minion Ragnaros to destroy Nordrassil in Cataclysm. Nordrassil represents a beacon of life in the world, and it is also a source of immense power; the Legion, like N'Zoth, believed that destroying Nordrassil would lead to Azeroth's doom in the Third War. I don't think that the torches refer to the world trees, nevertheless it is obvious that the Old God wants Nordrassil destroyed. That was the entire storyline of Patch 4.2: Ragnaros, minion of N'Zoth, seeking to destroy Nordrassil for his dark master.


  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    The leaders of their pantheons are incapable of doing anything. Xe'ra, who was the Prime Naaru, was oneshot by Illidan, a glorified mortal. The Titan Pantheon are incapacitated as their combined power is required to keep Sargeras jailed. Unless Blizzard brings back Sargeras to give him redemption arc (which would be hilarious since he literally tried to wipe out entire Cosmos), then the Pantheon are also unable to do anything against N'Zoth, because then Sargeras will break free.

    That's why, when people think of "Light expansion", they ALWAYS bring up Yrel and the Lightbound. They are the only relevant Light forces. The Light forces in the MU are too weak to do anything. Turalyon and his Lightforged are a small force in the Alliance, the rest of the Army must be weak and exhausted after the Burning Crusade. Indeed, the bulk of the army would have been wiped out in 7.3 if the Vindicaar/Azeroth forces weren't there to save them.

    Unless Yrel and the Lightbound come into MU, then the Light is too weak to do anything against the Void. They cannot compare. They fought in the Burning Crusade for 10,000 years, while the armies of the Void were biding their time, building up their strength. Now we seen the end result. The Light army is reduced to a few spaceships, while the Void army continues to grow, as we can see many Old God-infested planets from the skybox of Telogrus Rift and the Nightborne Augur raid fight.



    I think that the torches are the Dragonflight oathstones, not only because it aligns with the expansion, but also because they literally are torches that were illuminated again in this expansion's questing experience.

    It is also factual that N'Zoth hates Nordrassil, that's why he ordered his minion Ragnaros to destroy Nordrassil in Cataclysm. Nordrassil represents a beacon of life in the world, and it is also a source of immense power; the Legion, like N'Zoth, believed that destroying Nordrassil would lead to Azeroth's doom in the Third War. I don't think that the torches refer to the world trees, nevertheless it is obvious that the Old God wants Nordrassil destroyed. That was the entire storyline of Patch 4.2: Ragnaros, minion of N'Zoth, seeking to destroy Nordrassil for his dark master.

    Interesting take, and a good one too.

    One might be able to argue that from our point of view, Shadow (Void) has been just as decimated as the Light has over the past years. All the Old Gods are (again, from our POV) defeated, we've slain every major minion of the Void we've come across, and we've even entered Ny'alotha and razed it to the ground.

    That said, obviously (and as I argue in the OP), defeat works in N'Zoth's favour and it is unclear how much of it all was just an illusion. The appearance of victory. Like you say, there are many void-infested planets out there. It's hard to tell what type of reinforcements the Old Gods might get from those, in the event of war.

    But nevertheless, I do think we're on to something with the idea that most if not all cosmic forces except for Life have been severely weakened or constrained one way or the other, over the last decade. It does make sense that this was N'Zoth's grand plan all along, considering the people he's corrupted and the events he influenced.

    The Emerald Dream does seem like the last bastion, right now.

    As for the World Trees, I can't help but think of the other ones that we know of. Shaladrassil was corrupted by the Emerald Nightmare, so by extension it was N'Zoth and Yogg-Saron who caused it. The unnamed tree inside the Emerald Dream version of Un'Goro Crater suffered the same fate. It was inhabited by Il'gynoth. Vordrassil/Andrassil was corrupted as its roots reached Yogg-Saron's prison. Teldrassil was burned down, presumably because of the Jailer but who knows. There was a big debate surrounding Sylvanas and her talk of killing Hope. Yogg-Saron, of course, carries the title Hope's End. That's 4. So who knows, maybe another World Tree is all it takes for the prophecy to unfold.

  12. #12
    Very interesting.

    I really want to believe in that. Believe that WoW writers could come up with something so good, but after Shadowlands I seriously doubt it...

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    Very interesting.

    I really want to believe in that. Believe that WoW writers could come up with something so good, but after Shadowlands I seriously doubt it...
    I think part of the reason why several expansions, Shadowlands most notably, have fallen short in the narrative department might be precisely because of this long game they're playing. In meeting rooms on the Blizzard campus, it might feel like the story they're telling is a genius one. An epic told over many seasons, like Game of Thrones. But to players experiencing it all, it has taken way too long to get here, and we've sorely been lacking many epic story moments that we used to get at the end of raids and expansions. There's rarely any closure anymore. But I hope that all changes with 11.0.

  14. #14
    Actually, one thing that's perhaps interesting is that shadowland shows Death, in its intended state, isn't evil. Or at least, not any worse than the 'good' powers.

    Now we actually haven't seen the Chaos panetheon, but its possible they aren't bad either. While Chaos opposes the Order pantheon, they not actually be 'evil', and the burning legion is Sargeras' perversion of it.

    Presumably this means the void lords are also twisted from what they should be, but its really not clear what exactly the light stands for.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Myradin View Post
    Actually, one thing that's perhaps interesting is that shadowland shows Death, in its intended state, isn't evil. Or at least, not any worse than the 'good' powers.

    Now we actually haven't seen the Chaos panetheon, but its possible they aren't bad either. While Chaos opposes the Order pantheon, they not actually be 'evil', and the burning legion is Sargeras' perversion of it.

    Presumably this means the void lords are also twisted from what they should be, but its really not clear what exactly the light stands for.
    You are correct!

    That said, I do think this is a recent change by Blizzard. Traditionally, Disorder, Death, and Shadow were just seen as the bad guys.

    It'll be interesting to see what the ultimate endgame turns out to be. Did the Jailer and N'Zoth both refer to each other when they warned us about "what's coming", or were they both referring to some extra thing, such as that rumoured seventh cosmic force?

    What I'm saying is, are all these cosmic forces trying to become dominant because they have an ulterior motive to protect our universe from something even worse? (But with their own ways of going about things, ideas of right and wrong, etc.)

  16. #16
    I've updated the OP somewhat with a new section on Dark Titans and a TL;DR.

  17. #17
    So you want to double down on a mistake. Insert excessive eyerolling.

    But hey, it is bad enough writing to fit with these devs.

  18. #18
    There is a 0% chance they will name an upcoming expansion after a patch... and not just that, but a patch that is considered one of the worst.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Arikara View Post
    So you want to double down on a mistake. Insert excessive eyerolling.

    But hey, it is bad enough writing to fit with these devs.
    Not sure I follow. What mistake are you referring to?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by RobertMugabe View Post
    There is a 0% chance they will name an upcoming expansion after a patch... and not just, but a patch that is considered one of the worst.
    I'm not necessarily saying the name of the expansion will be Hour of Twilight. I've written some potential names at the end of the post.

    It's the story that I'm referring to when I say the Hour of Twilight is coming. The one seen in Cataclysm wasn't the real deal.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    I'm not necessarily saying the name of the expansion will be Hour of Twilight. I've written some potential names at the end of the post.

    It's the story that I'm referring to when I say the Hour of Twilight is coming. The one seen in Cataclysm wasn't the real deal.
    Yeah yeah I get it. I also do think it is likely that we will soon enough have a Void-themed expansion, I just pointed that its unlikely any expansion will ever be called "Hour of Twilight".

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