Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst
1
2
  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by melzas View Post
    Progression is completely gone from pvp, people wanted it - I didnt, now it made me stop playing pvp altogether.

    Nice MMORPG where time spent investing in character means nothing. My interest in arena and pushing rating is pretty much gone and that was my main thing to do in the game in SL so gj blizz.

    Also solo shuffle was a nice idea but they didn't address two fundamental issues with it - queue times for DPS and rating gains for healer draws so I lost interest in that halfway through the expansion too.

    As a side effect it also killed casual 2v2s so there is that...
    You really can't fix "queue" times. Should they implement AI healer bots? They wont do rating gain for healers, because the healers won't match the DPS skillcaps. In return - both DPS and healers will perform worse.

    2nd - there are more people doing Arenas than before. I don't have a source, so this is personal observation(from community sites). But there is an increased interest in PvP(just like in this thread) - people are doing SS - also people who never done PvP before.

    Overall - the state of PvP is better than ever before.

    I know that PvPers are zugzugz, but come on now.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Crruor View Post
    Depends on the rating 2-20min as dps unless you are glad+.
    You should be able to play 3xSS pr. hr, where each session is lasting approx 10-15min per matchup.

    That is about 45min of gameplay during that 1 hour. That is not bad.
    Last edited by HansOlo; 2024-05-28 at 08:32 AM.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    You really can't fix "queue" times. Should they implement AI healer bots? They wont do rating gain for healers, because the healers won't match the DPS skillcaps. In return - both DPS and healers will perform worse.

    2nd - there are more people doing Arenas than before. I don't have a source, so this is personal observation(from community sites). But there is an increased interest in PvP(just like in this thread) - people are doing SS - also people who never done PvP before.

    Overall - the state of PvP is better than ever before.

    I know that PvPers are zugzugz, but come on now.
    False. It's very easy to reduce queue times for dps, just make SS more lucrative for healers, be it rating, cosmetics, power, whatever.

    Your observations are also wrong, just look at the ladders and compare them to SL, it's not rocket science that constructed arena interest plummeted down in DF.

  3. #23
    Banned Cynical Asshole's Avatar
    1+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2022
    Location
    Bucharest. Romania.
    Posts
    1,413
    Don't play ranged specs for solo casual PVP. Rogues, warriors and rets will shit all over you because they have more ways stick to you than you have of keeping them away, or they just kill you from range.

    The only ranged spec that kinda works is a very special MM hunter spec that takes all traps and ccs available to the class, but it's still very hard because by the time you make a rogue or warrior run out of shit and become vulnerable to kiting, you are pretty much dead due to garbage defenses compared to theirs.
    Last edited by Cynical Asshole; 2024-05-28 at 02:13 PM.

  4. #24
    There's like a million ways to describe why the game is bad right now.
    The game is soft. Damage is gated, healing is overpowered. Small things matter less. All about the whole package.
    I've never had this much difficulty 1v2ing players in Skirmish. I've never been so tilted at my teammates in battlegrounds either, cuz now they matter to me.

    I remember once upon a time I would attack 5 random players in World and give a really good fight, sometimes I would win, or I would kite them or I would lose. But there was hope. Nowadays if I would attack 5 players I would have 0% chance to win 0% chance to run away, unless I'm on a cliff somewhere and I can Goblin Glider away. The only way to win nowadays in scenarios like that is not attempting them at all!

    The small things that used to matter, having advantages with positioning or reactivity or outplaying critically matters so much less now. The game isn't bad there's good flow of energy, energy matters ALOT the game is good WHEN you have good teammates. Because the game used to be better with bad teammates, I used to enjoy playing with bad players because it was fun to try to help them or solo the other team or stuff like that, but now I need my teammate to make me win no matter what.
    It's dumb how streamlined and balanced this game is, but this balance supports bad players so much, makes them not get aoe farmed by some monsters or r1 glads in world. Good for them.

    I get this sluggish feeling when playing DF, like I'm loading up my spells, like I'm going through a rotation all the time. Revving up my engine. But my engine is capped, and my engine can't overpower 2 engines. It just takes so much more time to get going now, I used to complain about infinite mobility, and I was hopeful that GCDs would mean more in DF since that was my assumption since in SL game became alot more about CDs, but I was so wrong because in SL the GCDs were much stronger, and the CDS were much weaker. I just can't see how TWW will be different from DF looks just as sluggish, revving up abilities,

    Even if Classic is too old, underdeveloped when it comes to PVP what made WoW good was that crit damage, that 1 second timing needed to overcome, if you didn't start casting your heal before that 1 second was up you'd die, if you didn't fear that rogue's ambush you'd die, stuff like that, when you hit someone with a mortal strike crit they'd take so much damage, what used to matter was more immediate impacts, now what matters is going through these patterns and these same patterns are HYPERBALANCED to not be viable 1v2 or more, they're balanced to be balanced with balanced power in your balanced teammates and it's even more triggering how healer balance is like 3 times more important, it's all so predetermined now, all so communistic.

    I'm utterly depressed when my random teammate doesn't join the skirmish, and I'm facing 1v2, it's not a fun feeling in that challenge, there's this MINIMAL hope that I play much better than them, but it's so narrow now, it's not even fun to try anymore.

    These critical timings, these high reactivity moves doesn't matter to overcome uneven numbers. That's why PVPers are having so much fun in Cata! Because in Cata when you do something good you notice it. You can easily dominate multiple players in Cata, cuz the game isn't balanced to adjust to bad players.

    Doesn't mean you won't need a strong team to beat a strong team, every person matters the same, it's just that now every person matters WAY more on lower levels, there's just a bad taste in my mouth even thinking about how poorly designed PVP is now. It disrespects the entire history of WoW, it's like The Acolyte disrespects Star Wars. It's just something entirely different now, but atleast it shows itself different, but WoW fools people to think it's the same, I don't think it's good for 2 bad players to easily beat anyone in the game, if 2 bad players easily beat anyone then who is strong? It's like individual strength doesn't matter now.

    I won't ever get this feeling in Retail, that this Warlock that I'm Mind Blasting is unprepared that I'm casting this spell, and this spell hurts the Warlock, nah, Now in Retail it doesn't matter if the Warlock is unprepared, because the buildup to REAL activity takes SOOOO long, so there's never this feeling of surprising or taking advantage in that way. My Mind Blast will do like 1% hp damage on the Warlock now. It's just all replaced by this revving up the engine playstyle and it's SO SLOW, you might think DF is fast, but it's because everything matters way less, and at the same time the defensive cds and selfheals are super powerful, like there's just nothing to be done vs them except equally within equal numbers trading, it's really really bad when you understand.


    TL;DR
    It's really difficult to play good now, but it's also really easy when playing bad now. If that makes sense. I don't like that it's so easy when playing bad now. That's my whole problem.

    The solution? Tone down all healers and hybrid healing, and defensive cd healing. Step a bit back from the new style of revving the engine so to speak, and go back to critical timings, and make that feel good again. There's too much rotational bloat. Maybe there's not too much rotational bloat, I can see it working but there needs to be severe tuning, WoW used to be good, used to have really good combat mechanics it's there the knowledge exists. I want a modern WoW I don't want the old WoW, but the good stuff has been DELETED and I don't know if it's on purpose or pure ignorance.
    Last edited by nvaelz; 2024-06-13 at 07:02 AM.
    Writes insightful, well-mannered posts in the Community Council.

  5. #25
    Banned Cynical Asshole's Avatar
    1+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2022
    Location
    Bucharest. Romania.
    Posts
    1,413
    Arms warriors, demon hunters and rogues shitting on everybody.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by nvaelz View Post
    There's like a million ways to describe why the game is bad right now.
    The game is soft. Damage is gated, healing is overpowered. Small things matter less. All about the whole package.
    I've never had this much difficulty 1v2ing players in Skirmish. I've never been so tilted at my teammates in battlegrounds either, cuz now they matter to me.

    I remember once upon a time I would attack 5 random players in World and give a really good fight, sometimes I would win, or I would kite them or I would lose. But there was hope. Nowadays if I would attack 5 players I would have 0% chance to win 0% chance to run away, unless I'm on a cliff somewhere and I can Goblin Glider away. The only way to win nowadays in scenarios like that is not attempting them at all!

    The small things that used to matter, having advantages with positioning or reactivity or outplaying critically matters so much less now. The game isn't bad there's good flow of energy, energy matters ALOT the game is good WHEN you have good teammates. Because the game used to be better with bad teammates, I used to enjoy playing with bad players because it was fun to try to help them or solo the other team or stuff like that, but now I need my teammate to make me win no matter what.
    It's dumb how streamlined and balanced this game is, but this balance supports bad players so much, makes them not get aoe farmed by some monsters or r1 glads in world. Good for them.

    I get this sluggish feeling when playing DF, like I'm loading up my spells, like I'm going through a rotation all the time. Revving up my engine. But my engine is capped, and my engine can't overpower 2 engines. It just takes so much more time to get going now, I used to complain about infinite mobility, and I was hopeful that GCDs would mean more in DF since that was my assumption since in SL game became alot more about CDs, but I was so wrong because in SL the GCDs were much stronger, and the CDS were much weaker. I just can't see how TWW will be different from DF looks just as sluggish, revving up abilities,

    Even if Classic is too old, underdeveloped when it comes to PVP what made WoW good was that crit damage, that 1 second timing needed to overcome, if you didn't start casting your heal before that 1 second was up you'd die, if you didn't fear that rogue's ambush you'd die, stuff like that, when you hit someone with a mortal strike crit they'd take so much damage, what used to matter was more immediate impacts, now what matters is going through these patterns and these same patterns are HYPERBALANCED to not be viable 1v2 or more, they're balanced to be balanced with balanced power in your balanced teammates and it's even more triggering how healer balance is like 3 times more important, it's all so predetermined now, all so communistic.

    I'm utterly depressed when my random teammate doesn't join the skirmish, and I'm facing 1v2, it's not a fun feeling in that challenge, there's this MINIMAL hope that I play much better than them, but it's so narrow now, it's not even fun to try anymore.

    These critical timings, these high reactivity moves doesn't matter to overcome uneven numbers. That's why PVPers are having so much fun in Cata! Because in Cata when you do something good you notice it. You can easily dominate multiple players in Cata, cuz the game isn't balanced to adjust to bad players.

    Doesn't mean you won't need a strong team to beat a strong team, every person matters the same, it's just that now every person matters WAY more on lower levels, there's just a bad taste in my mouth even thinking about how poorly designed PVP is now. It disrespects the entire history of WoW, it's like The Acolyte disrespects Star Wars. It's just something entirely different now, but atleast it shows itself different, but WoW fools people to think it's the same, I don't think it's good for 2 bad players to easily beat anyone in the game, if 2 bad players easily beat anyone then who is strong? It's like individual strength doesn't matter now.

    I won't ever get this feeling in Retail, that this Warlock that I'm Mind Blasting is unprepared that I'm casting this spell, and this spell hurts the Warlock, nah, Now in Retail it doesn't matter if the Warlock is unprepared, because the buildup to REAL activity takes SOOOO long, so there's never this feeling of surprising or taking advantage in that way. My Mind Blast will do like 1% hp damage on the Warlock now. It's just all replaced by this revving up the engine playstyle and it's SO SLOW, you might think DF is fast, but it's because everything matters way less, and at the same time the defensive cds and selfheals are super powerful, like there's just nothing to be done vs them except equally within equal numbers trading, it's really really bad when you understand.


    TL;DR
    It's really difficult to play good now, but it's also really easy when playing bad now. If that makes sense. I don't like that it's so easy when playing bad now. That's my whole problem.

    The solution? Tone down all healers and hybrid healing, and defensive cd healing. Step a bit back from the new style of revving the engine so to speak, and go back to critical timings, and make that feel good again. There's too much rotational bloat. Maybe there's not too much rotational bloat, I can see it working but there needs to be severe tuning, WoW used to be good, used to have really good combat mechanics it's there the knowledge exists. I want a modern WoW I don't want the old WoW, but the good stuff has been DELETED and I don't know if it's on purpose or pure ignorance.
    I wonder how long it will take for you to realize that nobody reads your wall of texts you're constantly posting ?

    I don't mean to sound rude, but it's the truth. If you want people to pay attention to what you have to say, maybe stick to the TL;DR version.

    Have a great day !

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by BlackRedGreenofc View Post
    I wonder how long it will take for you to realize that nobody reads your wall of texts you're constantly posting ?

    I don't mean to sound rude, but it's the truth. If you want people to pay attention to what you have to say, maybe stick to the TL;DR version.

    Have a great day !
    So the truth is that You know that no one reads my walls of text, which sullies your criticism with passive aggression. I do appreciate the criticism. I want to write more compact messages, it's a passion of mine. Sincerely thanks.

    -----

    Anyways, I came here to complain again.
    I've been playing Fury Warrior the past days, grinding 2v2 and farming gear. It's been a ride so far. Having a good time.
    The game isn't bad. But sometimes it feels so dumb. Like there's too much CD power, and not enough finesse. The finesse is still there but it's lowered in impact.
    I remember dying if missing a fakecast, but now you can probably miss a fakecast on 30% HP and survive.

    People complain about micro-ccs but the micro-ccs hold less value nowadays. If you go into Cataclysm and kick a player on 100% HP it's a dangerous position to be in. Take old WoW where CDs had very little value compared to now, everything was about a different kind of pressure. But now all that pressure is negated. Every class has divine shield. Some multiple.

    All-in-all it's not a bad thing to make the game less scripted, which is what's good about Dragonflight. On the other hand the downside is that you can stand stupid and press your CDs and be a bad player as long as you press them. It takes a really long time to kill for example a hunter. General hunter playstyle = tank damage and press deterence, like that's the norm. Takes a long time to kill a hunter, no matter what.

    It makes me feel really really annoyed when I see a hunter whom is not using any finesse. Not kiting, not trapping, not doing these things, but is still a huge threat. The level of play is so automated by that. I can't say people are bad for just relying on CDs to play, since that's how the game is now, so they're good at it. But I think they should flop harder, like players need to learn how to play not just be guided into this CD rotation that somehow lets them play. And this is all about that lower end of players.

    If I'm queueing skirmish, and someone doesn't join my team and it's 3v3. I want to atleast have a slight chance to win 2v3. I want Blizzard to reduce impossibilities when it comes to that. I simply want it to feel good to try, but it's like so impossible, and then the game feels super rigged. That's what I hate.

    -----

    There's alot of positives to the current balance. There's many layers of complexity. For example when facing a counter, all these layers must be handled, I don't know how to put it but you need to win on more levels, which is interesting and fun and challenging.
    Which is better than in the past. Counter comps felt way worse in the past somehow. Atleast when it was equal on skill levels. In the past if someone's counter comp was a bit lower in skill level they probably flopped anyways, but now,

    The demand when facing a counter-comp is heavier, since more layers, more added responsibilities to win. Which puts the weight on the countered team to outperform on a more complex + more difficult level, while simultaneously lessening the skill required for the counter-comp. A good thing.

    To repeat this sentiment:
    In the past while facing a counter-comp they could more simply flop since there were less layers of complexity, but equally they could also dominate harder because of less layers of complexity.

    The solution I hope is in line with what we have now, I hope Blizzard is aware of their games integrity on this level. I want to see players NOT play Classic because PVP is more fun there. I want players to think it's stupid to play Classic because Retail is so much better, on every level.

    That's my real desire.

    So I think a simple idea that 2v3 should feel less impossible is a good viewpoint.
    As a finale to my wall-of-text that no one ever reads, and I don't really care if anyone does.

    I just want a game where I don't avoid attacking 3 players at once in War Mode. I want a game where Random Battleground premades become extinct because we don't need eachother to dominate a Random Battleground anymore. I want a game where I don't calculate impossibilities when facing adversities that aren't in-line with the equalnumber vs. equalnumber paradigm.
    Last edited by nvaelz; Yesterday at 01:51 PM.
    Writes insightful, well-mannered posts in the Community Council.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by nvaelz View Post
    So the truth is that You know that no one reads my walls of text, which sullies your criticism with passive aggression. I do appreciate the criticism. I want to write more compact messages, it's a passion of mine. Sincerely thanks.

    -----

    Anyways, I came here to complain again.
    I've been playing Fury Warrior the past days, grinding 2v2 and farming gear. It's been a ride so far. Having a good time.
    The game isn't bad. But sometimes it feels so dumb. Like there's too much CD power, and not enough finesse. The finesse is still there but it's lowered in impact.
    I remember dying if missing a fakecast, but now you can probably miss a fakecast on 30% HP and survive.

    People complain about micro-ccs but the micro-ccs hold less value nowadays. If you go into Cataclysm and kick a player on 100% HP it's a dangerous position to be in. Take old WoW where CDs had very little value compared to now, everything was about a different kind of pressure. But now all that pressure is negated. Every class has divine shield. Some multiple.

    All-in-all it's not a bad thing to make the game less scripted, which is what's good about Dragonflight. On the other hand the downside is that you can stand stupid and press your CDs and be a bad player as long as you press them. It takes a really long time to kill for example a hunter. General hunter playstyle = tank damage and press deterence, like that's the norm. Takes a long time to kill a hunter, no matter what.

    It makes me feel really really annoyed when I see a hunter whom is not using any finesse. Not kiting, not trapping, not doing these things, but is still a huge threat. The level of play is so automated by that. I can't say people are bad for just relying on CDs to play, since that's how the game is now, so they're good at it. But I think they should flop harder, like players need to learn how to play not just be guided into this CD rotation that somehow lets them play. And this is all about that lower end of players.

    If I'm queueing skirmish, and someone doesn't join my team and it's 3v3. I want to atleast have a slight chance to win 2v3. I want Blizzard to reduce impossibilities when it comes to that. I simply want it to feel good to try, but it's like so impossible, and then the game feels super rigged. That's what I hate.

    -----

    There's alot of positives to the current balance. There's many layers of complexity. For example when facing a counter, all these layers must be handled, I don't know how to put it but you need to win on more levels, which is interesting and fun and challenging.
    Which is better than in the past. Counter comps felt way worse in the past somehow. Atleast when it was equal on skill levels. In the past if someone's counter comp was a bit lower in skill level they probably flopped anyways, but now,

    The demand when facing a counter-comp is heavier, since more layers, more added responsibilities to win. Which puts the weight on the countered team to outperform on a more complex + more difficult level, while simultaneously lessening the skill required for the counter-comp. A good thing.

    To repeat this sentiment:
    In the past while facing a counter-comp they could more simply flop since there were less layers of complexity, but equally they could also dominate harder because of less layers of complexity.

    The solution I hope is in line with what we have now, I hope Blizzard is aware of their games integrity on this level. I want to see players NOT play Classic because PVP is more fun there. I want players to think it's stupid to play Classic because Retail is so much better, on every level.

    That's my real desire.

    So I think a simple idea that 2v3 should feel less impossible is a good viewpoint.
    As a finale to my wall-of-text that no one ever reads, and I don't really care if anyone does.

    I just want a game where I don't avoid attacking 3 players at once in War Mode. I want a game where Random Battleground premades become extinct because we don't need eachother to dominate a Random Battleground anymore. I want a game where I don't calculate impossibilities when facing adversities that aren't in-line with the equalnumber vs. equalnumber paradigm.
    If it's a passion of yours, go write a book. This is a forum. Doesn't it make you feel weird that you're typing all this out, spending your time, energy and nobody even reads it ? If your objective is to communicate, you're doing it wrong. You're a prime example of someone who has very little self awareness. But hey sorry for even trying to help man. I'm done wasting my time.

  9. #29
    The Unstoppable Force Syegfryed's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Darkshore, Killing Living and Dead elves
    Posts
    20,083
    Quote Originally Posted by BlackRedGreenofc View Post
    If it's a passion of yours, go write a book. This is a forum. Doesn't it make you feel weird that you're typing all this out, spending your time, energy and nobody even reads it ? If your objective is to communicate, you're doing it wrong. You're a prime example of someone who has very little self awareness. But hey sorry for even trying to help man. I'm done wasting my time.
    The forum is to write stuff, just let the dude be, if you don't like you can ignore. it is with the attitude of yours this forum is dead

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •