Fury Incarnate Releases September 5

[Garymorilix]

Hello? Did we read the same notes? It's a completely new zone, 8 new dungeons and a new raid. That's slightly more than what we got in 10.1.7.

Which are irrelevant, as was discussed a million times before.
Those are standard issue with new patches.
We got those with 10.1 as well. Doesn't make researchers/timerifts/dreamfuckwhatevers any more quality, does it? Or are you now going to argue that Defending the Researchers or whatever the fck it is called was prime quality content for a major tier drop?

The quality of literally every other piece of content that's not the tier content is the issue still.
I guess the excuse of "butitwas a pointpointpoint7 patch" does not hold up that well.

Instead of the Mage Tower, or Mechagon or the Jailer's Gauntlet we get... the cooking event but it's planting seeds (that you can definitely just stand next to AFK to wait for the rewards anyway).

[Relapses]

Which are irrelevant, as was discussed a million times before.
Those are standard issue with new patches.
We got those with 10.1 as well. Doesn't make researchers/timerifts/dreamfuckwhatevers any more quality, does it? Or are you now going to argue that Defending the Researchers or whatever the fck it is called was prime quality content for a major tier drop?

The quality of literally every other piece of content that's not the tier content is the issue still.
I guess the excuse of "butitwas a pointpointpoint7 patch" does not hold up that well.

Instead of the Mage Tower, or Mechagon or the Jailer's Gauntlet we get... the cooking event but it's planting seeds (that you can definitely just stand next to AFK to wait for the rewards anyway).

Look man, I'm disappointed we didn't get any new dungeons as well but it's still a lot more than we got in 10.1.7. Surely you plan to engage with the raid and new M+ rotation, yeah? They're reworking all three Rogue specs so I'm sure that'll be cool to check out too. It seems like you're making or breaking your opinion of a patch on the repetitive world content that Blizzard has been churning out (a valid criticism); but in doing so you're also dismissing all other content in spite of it. Seems like a bit of a dishonest take to justify being salty but you're entitled to your opinion.

[Garymorilix]

Look man, I'm disappointed we didn't get any new dungeons as well but it's still a lot more than we got in 10.1.7. Surely you plan to engage with the raid and new M+ rotation, yeah? They're reworking all three Rogue specs so I'm sure that'll be cool to check out too. It seems like you're making or breaking patch content on the repetitive world content that Blizzard has been churning out (a valid criticism); but in doing so you're also dismissing all other content in spite of it. Seems like a bit of dishonest take to justify being salty but you're entitled to your opinion.

I am a 100% certain that the people who reworked the rogue specs are not the same people that are responsible for creating non-raid or non-M+ activities.

I never said that a 10.1.7 patch should bring as much or more than a whole tier patch.
I have been saying that the shit that they keep putting out in these minor patches is lazy trash garbage that should be cancelled in favor of actually designing something that will last more than 2 weeks.

In other words, let's not make the 5 types of world assaults in 10.1.X but make something like Mechagon instead with that development time/budget/insert whatever.

Dishonest?
In 8.2 we not only got 2 zones, a megadungeon, a raid, a new M+ seasonal affix but on top of all of these we got the whole essence system.
Now, nothing out of these actually matter except the last part.

Where is the actual content in 10.2 that can compare to the essence system? That's what I wanna see. Not a fucking payload bar filling aoe grind afk event, the 8th or so in this expansion.

There is literally no effort here. Even the tier bonuses are dogshit this expansion compared to whatever legendaries/borrowed power systems we had in the past 3 expansions. 'Your kill command does 10% more damage' type bullshit.

[Relapses]

I am a 100% certain that the people who reworked the rogue specs are not the same people that are responsible for creating non-raid or non-M+ activities.

I never said that a 10.1.7 patch should bring as much or more than a whole tier patch.
I have been saying that the shit that they keep putting out in these minor patches is lazy trash garbage that should be cancelled in favor of actually designing something that will last more than 2 weeks.

In other words, let's not make the 5 types of world assaults in 10.1.X but make something like Mechagon instead with that development time/budget/insert whatever.

Dishonest?
In 8.2 we not only got 2 zones, a megadungeon, a raid, a new M+ seasonal affix but on top of all of these we got the whole essence system.
Now, nothing out of these actually matter except the last part.

Where is the actual content in 10.2 that can compare to the essence system? That's what I wanna see. Not a fucking payload bar filling aoe grind afk event, the 8th or so in this expansion.

There is literally no effort here. Even the tier bonuses are dogshit this expansion compared to whatever legendaries/borrowed power systems we had in the past 3 expansions. 'Your kill command does 10% more damage' type bullshit.

I don't know if I believe your assertion that they would need to make more engaging content if they weren't churning out the same type of world content. I imagine Blizzard has engagement statistics for this kind of content and the reason we keep seeing it is because casual players are, y'know, actually doing it. You may dislike this type of content but you're immediately going for the nuclear "Blizzard doesn't care" option when the "Blizzard is just doing what they think the players want" option is equally likely. The feedback that you dislike this content and would prefer more content like WQ hubs and Mechagon is valid but calling the devs lazy for not delivering what you prefer doesn't exactly get your point across in the best light.

[Garymorilix]

I don't know if I believe your assertion that they would need to make more engaging content if they weren't churning out the same type of world content. I imagine Blizzard has engagement statistics for this kind of content and the reason we keep seeing it is because casual players are, y'know, actually doing it. You may dislike this type of content but you're immediately going for the nuclear "Blizzard doesn't care" option when the "Blizzard is just doing what they think the players want" option is equally likely. The feedback that you dislike this content and would prefer more content like WQ hubs and Mechagon is valid but calling the devs lazy for not delivering what you prefer doesn't exactly get your point across in the best light.

Do they care tho?
Have you done a dreamsurge recently? You tell me how engaging it is. Somehow it's even worse than the timerifts were...

It's not about what I prefer.
I'll take literally anything that has the slightest hint of "well, we actually sat down and designed something".
Warfronts gave off a more well-designed-content vibe than literally any side activity in DF so far 2 major patches in.

You want engagement statistics? Go to the Forbidden Reach right now. Check the engagement for yourself.
Or you know what, go to a cooking event and try to take the bar to rare.
These are current expansion 'content'.

You know what had great engagement from day 1 til the end? Island Expeditions. I would welcome a new version of those with open arms.

If you honestly think that vomiting out lazy AFK-promoting content every 2 months that engages players for 2-3 weeks before its death is a better business model than making one coherent catered experience that lasts throughout the expansion then I don't know what to tell you.

Edit: Even Blizz knows it isn't. DF is underperforming compared to both BfA and SL.
They dug themselves the hole they're laying in when they sold this expansion with "well are you a pathetic loser at everything? say less fam, in this expansion there will be nothing to actually do so you can't suck at it."

[Relapses]

Do they care tho?
Have you done a dreamsurge recently? You tell me how engaging it is. Somehow it's even worse than the timerifts were...

lol yeah. They're pretty bland, I won't lie. But it's something to do. I've been grinding gear on my alts while alt-tabbed all day today, it's pretty nice.

It's not about what I prefer.
I'll take literally anything that has the slightest hint of "well, we actually sat down and designed something".
Warfronts gave off a more well-designed-content vibe than literally any side activity in DF so far 2 major patches in.

You want engagement statistics? Go to the Forbidden Reach right now. Check the engagement for yourself.
Or you know what, go to a cooking event and try to take the bar to rare.
These are current expansion 'content'.

I pointed this out last month when you brought up the same point but it makes for content which no longer provides the best rewards to not be populated. People stopped doing world content in SL shortly after ZM opened, too. This is just a natural migration of the playerbase to grind efficient rewards.

You know what had great engagement from day 1 til the end? Island Expeditions. I would welcome a new version of those with open arms.

I don't remember Island Expeditions fondly but if you liked it more power to you.

If you honestly think that vomiting out lazy AFK-promoting content every 2 months that engages players for 2-3 weeks before its death is a better business model than making one coherent catered experience that lasts throughout the expansion then I don't know what to tell you.

Again, I'm not defending this content. It's pretty mid. I don't like it either. But if there's one thing I've learned about Blizzard it's that they very rarely break the stuff they know is working. When you see a feature iterated and changed multiple times in an expansion, that means that they're getting feedback that parts of the system aren't working and they're changing to address that feedback. When you see a feature that stays largely the same throughout an expansion, that, to me, signals that somewhere internally Blizzard is getting feedback that this content is achieving its goal.

Edit: Even Blizz knows it isn't. DF is underperforming compared to both BfA and SL.

Outside of lower initial sales I haven't seen anything from Blizzard which shows that DF is underperforming. SL was released at the height of lock-downs in the pandemic so that's important to consider as well.

They dug themselves the hole they're laying in when they sold this expansion with "well are you a pathetic loser at everything? say less fam, in this expansion there will be nothing to actually do so you can't suck at it."

There are legitimate criticisms to be levied at DF but I never got the impression from any of the press releases that Blizzard intended for this to be the casual shitlord's greatest expansion.

[Garymorilix]

lol yeah. They're pretty bland, I won't lie. But it's something to do. I've been grinding gear on my alts while alt-tabbed all day today, it's pretty nice.



I pointed this out last month when you brought up the same point but it makes for content which no longer provides the best rewards to not be populated. People stopped doing world content in SL shortly after ZM opened, too. This is just a natural migration of the playerbase to grind efficient rewards.



I don't remember Island Expeditions fondly but if you liked it more power to you.



Again, I'm not defending this content. It's pretty mid. I don't like it either. But if there's one thing I've learned about Blizzard it's that they very rarely break the stuff they know is working. When you see a feature iterated and changed multiple times in an expansion, that means that they're getting feedback that parts of the system aren't working and they're changing to address that feedback. When you see a feature that stays largely the same throughout an expansion, that, to me, signals that somewhere internally Blizzard is getting feedback that this content is achieving its goal.



Outside of lower initial sales I haven't seen anything from Blizzard which shows that DF is underperforming. SL was released at the height of lock-downs in the pandemic so that's important to consider as well.



There are legitimate criticisms to be levied at DF but I never got the impression from any of the press releases that Blizzard intended for this to be the casual shitlord's greatest expansion.

- Being alt-tabbed to do content is not considered content in my eyes. Especially not content that they actually market. I prefer to actually play the game. Imagine being able to be alt tabbed on IE's or Torghast or Horrific Visions. That's not gameplay. That's afking in place for rewards.

- Except people didn't stop doing world content when ZM dropped. There were so many things to do from Covenant unlock stuff to even farming the Maw/Korthia. Were there less people doing it? Absolutely. Was it deserted like Zaralek or the Forbidden Reach? Not at all.

- Island Expeditions are run to this day for transmog gold. Whether you liked it or not is irrelevant when we're talking about engagement. I did like them, they were something to do occasionally that actually had rewards you could use, be it vanity or azerite power.

- This is not necessarily true. Look at how botched this expansion is compared to the last 3. We had legendaries, artifacts, azerite, essences, corruption, more legendaries, covenant talent tree and abilities. And these are only the things that are character based.
Many things like old talents and tier sets were specifically brought back not because the game was not better without them but because people cried for them.
Look how fucked up they are, 6-8 specs have had full reworks since then. They literally ditched what worked for years to have something that only generates more work for no reason at all.

- Initial sales is everything we have to consider. There is simply no world in which an estensive upward trend would happen after release. This is true for every single game out there.
There is no reason to assume that DF beat SL when SL was the best selling PC game at its time. They would have bragged about by now if this was true.

- I don't remember the exact wording during the promotion of DF but Ian definitely marketed the expac as having 'no borrowed power or things like that'. If you ditch the buzz words this actually means that there will be nothing to do except the usual end-game activities.