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  1. #621
    I don't mind pathfinder so long as it doesn't include rep grind and several parts to it. Pathfinder in Dragonflight was on point.

  2. #622
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    For example if I do Tanaan Junge dailies anyway to buy Apexis rewards - then I get corresponding reps via "just playing the game". If I do Class Hall mission table missions anyway - then I get corresponding reps via "just playing the game". But if I have to play without flying in order to unlock flying - then I do something unnatural. It's not "just playing the game". It's "suffering".
    One: you literally have flying to quest around: it's called dragonriding.

    And if you consider "just playing the game" to be "suffering", then clearly you should look for a new game to play, WoW is clearly not for you. Or... MMOs in general, most likely.

    Flying is unlocked via "just playing the game" only for those players,
    It is unlocked by "just playing the game" for you too. Because you're doing the exact thing they're doing: playing the game.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  3. #623
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    pardon me, I forgot the pvp quest since I absolutely refuse to pvp. EVER. like... if you force me to pvp ever again, like they did with pandaria and the cloak? i'll be gone again and I may not come back this time - its not a threat just statement of fact and given how optional they made pvp, I would guess I'm not the only one that feels this way. that gives you.... 2.5 renown per week instead of 2, my bad. reminder - most dailies with a few exceptions give you 50 rep. superbloom gives 1k. main story gives 2500 or single renown level per milestone as far as I could tell, I only got 2 of those so far, life got in a way. world rares I think give 100 rep? not sure, but you also need to be there for them and they are not always up.

    those 8-9 renown levels? are ONE. TIME. ONLY. once your story is done? you'd have to get to 15 the long way. so lets say you made it to 9 the first week. and lets say and be generous and assume that hypothetical you are doing nothing but grinding rep and maximizing it in every way possible and getting 3 renown per week on subsequent weeks. to get to 15? still no earlier then week 3. as in... multiple WEEKS.

    so yes, I'm glad that they removed that requirement.

    P.S. you can litteraly do what you describe with dragonriding. you fly up to the ceiling, aim your dragon and afk. not that I've ever personaly afked on a classic flight, because I like to, you know.. actualy fly CLOSE to the ground looking at and for thing, something that is HIGHLY annoying to do in a dragon mount, especially when you lose momentum and vigor because of a random sticking out piece of terrain. on a classic mount, I get stopped by it - no biggie, just go around, no harm down. dragon riding? couple of those bits and I'm grounded until vigor refreshes. you either skim on the ground, and go fast or lose vigor, or you fly high enough to not run into bits, which defeats the purpose of being, you know


    IMMERSED IN A WORLD.
    It takes 2 minutes of just fighting in a spot in the zone if you really can't stand it. Join a group and just spam aoe on people, tons of groups like that right now.
    Wanna point out, we only got about 40% of the story, we have not completed the campaign, next week we get the a ton more, and liekly more weeks after that.
    if you do it over the weeks while also doing content, it will be content full weeks, if you do it all at once you will have to grind a bit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    My ideas are objectively good

  4. #624
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thirtyrock View Post
    Why are we still discussing this? They made it easier to get, Pathfinder is no longer required, what is the problem?
    I thought it was still required, they removed the renown grind so it’s easy as fuck

  5. #625
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    One: you literally have flying to quest around: it's called dragonriding.

    And if you consider "just playing the game" to be "suffering", then clearly you should look for a new game to play, WoW is clearly not for you. Or... MMOs in general, most likely.


    It is unlocked by "just playing the game" for you too. Because you're doing the exact thing they're doing: playing the game.
    Stop twisting arguments. "Everybody else is doing it" isn't valid argument. You are Mythic raider and everybody else is doing LFR. Should you be forced to do LFR too? M?

    "Just playing the game" - is when I don't do, what I don't want to do. Period.

    P.S. Their new BS arguments are "Normal flying is too monotonous and predictable". What other excuses can they invent not to accept simple truth? There is nothing bad in normal flying, so there are no reasons to keep trying to squeeze game time from players via gating it. It's no longer viable "carrot on a stick" to force players to do, what they don't want to do. To grind reps, they don't need. To complete content, they don't want to complete. At leas without flying. Just stop it. Stop it already. By continuing to do it devs just discredit themselves and kill players' loyalty more and more.

    Sorry, Blizzard. I don't care about other players and "monotonous and predictable" game - is EXACTLY what I want.
    Last edited by WowIsDead64; 2023-11-11 at 12:51 PM.

    I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.

  6. #626
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    You are Mythic raider and everybody else is doing LFR. Should you be forced to do LFR too? M?
    ... Bad comparison, for two reasons:
    • One: accessing mythic raiding is not predicating on completing LFR first. In fact, you can access mythic raiding before LFR is even fully open to the public;
    • Two: raids, dungeons and PvP are player power progression. Flying is not. I've already told you that.

    "Just playing the game" - is when I don't do, what I don't want to do. Period.
    And what is it that you "don't want to do"? Questing? Leveling up? Getting rewards?

    Sorry, Blizzard. I don't care about other players
    And Blizzard doesn't care about you specifically. Get off your pedestal.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  7. #627
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    That's not what they said. What they said is it complety takes you out of the game. Flying around like an actual person in the world keeps you immersed. Being able to /cheat_noclip as they said breaks the immersion because you can just fly straight up, look where you need to go, press numlock, and go afk.
    They said nothing about "immersion". They said Dynamic flying was more "engaging" and "active gameplay" ... i.e. you have to do more to accomplish anything with it. It was an admission that mechanically TBC flying is superior because it asks less of the player to accomplish their goals, while Dynamic flying can be more "fun" because it's essentially a minigame.

    But I just listened to the question again and not once did they use the word "immersion" or "takes you out of the game". You're making things up.

    Edit: Want a quick and easy way to figure out which is more mechanically superior? Go to the Superbloom and fly through insect swarms using both types of flying and see which catches them more quickly. Hint - it's not Dynamic flying
    Last edited by VMSmith; 2023-11-11 at 04:23 PM.

  8. #628
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    ... Bad comparison, for two reasons:
    • One: accessing mythic raiding is not predicating on completing LFR first.
    Exactly. But imagine, that it would. At the end this example is about "same" content, that is simply played at different "difficulty" settings. Problem with flying is exactly the same.

    I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.

  9. #629
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Exactly. But imagine, that it would. At the end this example is about "same" content, that is simply played at different "difficulty" settings. Problem with flying is exactly the same.
    It is really not the same, much less "exact same". Because flying is a quality-of-life feature and not a power progression feature. Any comparison between the a QoL feature and a power-progression feature fails completely.

    But just to indulge you: back in Cata you needed to complete normal raids to access their heroic versions (which would be today's heroic and mythic, respectively. Flex-- which then became our normal raid-- did not exist at the time) and guess how many people complained? No one.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  10. #630
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    It is really not the same, much less "exact same". Because flying is a quality-of-life feature and not a power progression feature. Any comparison between the a QoL feature and a power-progression feature fails completely.

    But just to indulge you: back in Cata you needed to complete normal raids to access their heroic versions (which would be today's heroic and mythic, respectively. Flex-- which then became our normal raid-- did not exist at the time) and guess how many people complained? No one.
    Difficulty setting is more QOL feature, than power progression one. Players, who aim at higher difficulties, tend to jump straight to them, unless they are physically inaccessible. Players, who aim at lower difficulties - tend to pick them, even if they start to lack further progression. And I don't care, what was happening in Cata. Cata was xpack with lots of nonsense, like having Vanilla level of character power, while having WotLK level of difficulty. It was xpack, made by Ghostcrawler, you know. And that's all to say.

    Simple thing. Many players would be upset, if Blizzard would say something like "Mythic is only true way to experience dungeons/raids, so you have to complete it before unlocking lower difficulties". And then you'd tell me, if LFR is power progression feature or QOL one.
    Last edited by WowIsDead64; 2023-11-11 at 05:22 PM.

    I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.

  11. #631
    Pathfinder what’s that? Everyone’s playing Classic
    Started in closed beta, probably before your class was even in the game.

  12. #632
    Quote Originally Posted by meroes View Post
    Pathfinder what’s that? Everyone’s playing Classic
    Just a little bit more than 4 years and you'll find out what it is in WOD Classic.

    I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.

  13. #633
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Difficulty setting is more QOL feature, than power progression one.
    It's literally a power progression system, because the greater difficulty gives greater rewards.

    Do you understand what is a "quality of life" feature? And what they're supposed to do? Their purpose is to make your gaming experience easier, not harder.

    Simple thing. Many players would be upset, if Blizzard would say something like "Mythic is only true way to experience dungeons/raids, so you have to complete it before unlocking lower difficulties".
    That is literally never going to happen because it goes against the power progression system.

    And flying is not a power progression system. it is a QUALITY OF LIFE feature.

    And then you'd tell me, if LFR is power progression feature or QOL one.
    Even in that ridiculously inane scenario, you're wrong. Because LFR, in that context, would be neither. It would be a waste that literally nobody would use. Because if you can complete mythic, why even bother with LFR? If you have to complete mythic to unlock LFR, why even have LFR in the first place?

    This is why your comparisons are idiotic. You don't really think about what you're doing here, you just want to complain, complain and complain about nothing consequential.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  14. #634
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    It would be a waste that literally nobody would use. Because if you can complete mythic, why even bother with LFR? If you have to complete mythic to unlock LFR, why even have LFR in the first place?
    Exactly! That's why granting flying for completing content without flying - is nonsense! And that's why my example is so great. If player can complete content without flying - he doesn't need flying in a first place. If you have to complete content without flying in order to unlock flying - why even have flying in a first place? Conclusion? Flying is just a waste.
    Last edited by WowIsDead64; 2023-11-11 at 07:02 PM.

    I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.

  15. #635
    Quote Originally Posted by meroes View Post
    Pathfinder what’s that? Everyone’s playing Classic
    Ikr, I did pathfinder in Warlords of Draenor and never did it again, retail WoW is just not fun enough to justify that level of grind. This is why they have backed off the grind to this level but most people have already left the snooze fest known as retail WoW and will probably never come back.

  16. #636
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Exactly! That's why granting flying for completing content without flying - is nonsense!
    Again, those two situations are not comparable. Because flying is a quality-of-life feature while raiding is not. How many times does this needs to be repeated before you understand this simple fact?

    And that's why my example is so great.
    Your example fails in every existing metric. There is no universe in which your comparison works.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  17. #637
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    It takes 2 minutes of just fighting in a spot in the zone if you really can't stand it. Join a group and just spam aoe on people, tons of groups like that right now.
    Wanna point out, we only got about 40% of the story, we have not completed the campaign, next week we get the a ton more, and liekly more weeks after that.
    if you do it over the weeks while also doing content, it will be content full weeks, if you do it all at once you will have to grind a bit.
    ok, I will admit, I haven't factchecked your renown 8-9 claim, I just took you at your word and assumed that involves completion of the story which would check out, but now I'm going to ask. if the story is NOT complete, HOW the fuck. where exactly did you get that number from? even with that pvp quest which I still won't be doing, thank you very much - each renown level is 2500 renown, pvp quest gets you less then half a level. HOW... are you getting 8-9 renown level? (2 weeks of dedicated grinding is STILL weeks - plural, but I'd like your explanation and/or link as to WHERE is this 8-9 claim is coming from because I'm sure as hell not seeing it from my own experience)

  18. #638
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    ok, I will admit, I haven't factchecked your renown 8-9 claim, I just took you at your word and assumed that involves completion of the story which would check out, but now I'm going to ask. if the story is NOT complete, HOW the fuck. where exactly did you get that number from? even with that pvp quest which I still won't be doing, thank you very much - each renown level is 2500 renown, pvp quest gets you less then half a level. HOW... are you getting 8-9 renown level? (2 weeks of dedicated grinding is STILL weeks - plural, but I'd like your explanation and/or link as to WHERE is this 8-9 claim is coming from because I'm sure as hell not seeing it from my own experience)


    (All but like 5 of these were done post-hotfix.


    I literally just after the hotfix spent all the purple seeds I had plus some greens and my purples I got just from doing all the main stuff.
    Did the main quests, the side quests, the treasures, the rares I found once each, a few a couple times.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    My ideas are objectively good

  19. #639
    Quote Originally Posted by VMSmith View Post
    They said nothing about "immersion". They said Dynamic flying was more "engaging" and "active gameplay" ... i.e. you have to do more to accomplish anything with it. It was an admission that mechanically TBC flying is superior because it asks less of the player to accomplish their goals, while Dynamic flying can be more "fun" because it's essentially a minigame.

    But I just listened to the question again and not once did they use the word "immersion" or "takes you out of the game". You're making things up.
    Funny part is that the user you're...ahem, debating actually did try to claim that dynamic flying makes for better immersion.
    Edit: Want a quick and easy way to figure out which is more mechanically superior? Go to the Superbloom and fly through insect swarms using both types of flying and see which catches them more quickly. Hint - it's not Dynamic flying
    Ehh. As I've told the people who try to claim that dynamic flying is objectively superior (only in reverse): that's like saying that a helicopter is superior to a jet. You want the chopper if you need maneuverability, but the jet if you need speed.

  20. #640
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Again, those two situations are not comparable. Because flying is a quality-of-life feature while raiding is not. How many times does this needs to be repeated before you understand this simple fact?


    Your example fails in every existing metric. There is no universe in which your comparison works.
    Flying makes outdoor easier, LFR makes raids easier. Flying = LFR. As simple, as that.

    I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.

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