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  1. #641
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Flying makes outdoor easier, LFR makes raids easier. Flying = LFR. As simple, as that.
    Flying is a QoL feature, LFR is a raiding difficulty. Not the same. As simple as that.

  2. #642
    Quote Originally Posted by Calfredd View Post
    Flying is a QoL feature, LFR is a raiding difficulty. Not the same. As simple as that.
    LFR can be power progression only for players, who want to progress. For players, who want to "regress" instead - it's not power progression. It's feature, that makes content comfortable enough to make it worth playing. What is it, if not QOL? Flying is the same. It makes content comfortable enough to make it worth playing.

    Overall, don't focus on LFR. It's just example of feature, that would upset many players, if it would be gated behind "completing game as intended by developers".

    I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.

  3. #643
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    LFR can be power progression only for players, who want to progress. For players, who want to "regress" instead - it's not power progression. It's feature, that makes content comfortable enough to make it worth playing. What is it, if not QOL? Flying is the same. It makes content comfortable enough to make it worth playing.

    Overall, don't focus on LFR. It's just example of feature, that would upset many players, if it would be gated behind "completing game as intended by developers".
    You don't seem to understand the topic of the thread, similar to your (mis)understanding of what FOMO is. Flying=QoL and LFR=raid difficulty. You can choose to fly or not fly and it would only affect travel time; just like you can skip easy mode (LFR) and go to normal or even hard mode (heroic) if you know what you are doing.

  4. #644
    Quote Originally Posted by Calfredd View Post
    You don't seem to understand the topic of the thread, similar to your (mis)understanding of what FOMO is. Flying=QoL and LFR=raid difficulty. You can choose to fly or not fly and it would only affect travel time; just like you can skip easy mode (LFR) and go to normal or even hard mode (heroic) if you know what you are doing.
    What I try to say, is that due to some reasons in case of LFR devs understand, that some players may not enjoy more challenging game, so it's counter-productive to force them to do content "as intended", but at the same time they don't understand it in case of flying.

    And FOMO is literally fear of missing out. That's exactly what player feels, when he still haven't completed all dailies/weeklies/WQs.
    Last edited by WowIsDead64; 2023-11-12 at 06:47 AM.

    I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.

  5. #645
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Flying makes outdoor easier, LFR makes raids easier. Flying = LFR. As simple, as that.
    Again, that is literally not how it works. Flying is a quality of life feature, not a power progression feature. I'd say I feel like I'm talking to a wall, but a wall would have understood the concept by now.

    Flying in nothing changes the power progression. LFR does. Because it becomes a progression path for those who have trouble raiding normal, or those who don't have time to dedicate to organized raiding.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    What I try to say, is that due to some reasons in case of LFR devs understand, that some players may not enjoy more challenging game, so it's counter-productive to force them to do content "as intended", but at the same time they don't understand it in case of flying.
    Leveling is not challenging. At all.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  6. #646
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Again, that is literally not how it works. Flying is a quality of life feature, not a power progression feature. I'd say I feel like I'm talking to a wall, but a wall would have understood the concept by now.

    Flying in nothing changes the power progression. LFR does. Because it becomes a progression path for those who have trouble raiding normal, or those who don't have time to dedicate to organized raiding.

    - - - Updated - - -


    Leveling is not challenging. At all.
    It seems, that you don't understand concept of relative difficulty. For some players LFR is trivial, so they have been crying for years, that LFR isn't real raiding and therefore should be removed from game. But for others LFR is only way of playing game. I guess, majority of players don't use it as one of steps on their way to normal raids. They play it as their major kind of content. So, it can be called accessibility feature. Same with flying. It's accessibility feature. Difference is - nobody asks players to complete Mythic first in order to unlock LFR. It makes no sense.

    I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.

  7. #647
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post


    (All but like 5 of these were done post-hotfix.


    I literally just after the hotfix spent all the purple seeds I had plus some greens and my purples I got just from doing all the main stuff.
    Did the main quests, the side quests, the treasures, the rares I found once each, a few a couple times.
    jesus, H christ, do you have any life outside of playing wow? there is grind and there is whatever the fuck THIS is.

  8. #648
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    It seems, that you don't understand concept of relative difficulty.
    If there's anyone "not understanding" anything, it's you.

    For some players LFR is trivial, so they have been crying for years, that LFR isn't real raiding and therefore should be removed from game.
    Literally that does not happen. The existence of LFR literally does not bother them and players who don't use LFR couldn't care less about its existence.

    I guess, majority of players don't use it as one of steps on their way to normal raids.
    People generally don't use LFR as a "gearing stepping stone" if they have the schedule open for normal raiding.

    So, it can be called accessibility feature. Same with flying.
    Flying is not "accessibility" feature. It's a quality of life feature. LFR is not a quality of life feature.

    nobody asks players to complete Mythic first in order to unlock LFR. It makes no sense.
    Because LFR is a difficulty mode aimed to those who don't have the schedule to regularly do organized raiding. It has nothing to do with actual difficulty. For the love of fuck, please stop saying nonsense.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  9. #649
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Again, that is literally not how it works. Flying is a quality of life feature, not a power progression feature. I'd say I feel like I'm talking to a wall, but a wall would have understood the concept by now.

    Flying in nothing changes the power progression. LFR does. Because it becomes a progression path for those who have trouble raiding normal, or those who don't have time to dedicate to organized raiding.

    - - - Updated - - -


    Leveling is not challenging. At all.
    I hate to agree with OP's reply to you, but he is correct. difficulty is relative. and I personaly do consider LFR to be an accessibility feature, as mechanics in it are either paired down, slowed down or removed all together to make it easier to deal with.

    do you die when leveling? cause I do. I'm getting older, my reactions - slower. game feels harder then it did back when I first started playing and while I do think part of it is due to redesign, big part of it is just me. getting older.. and worse and video games. I'm NOT unique and I'm likely not unique either when it comes to doing lfr ONCE per wings just to see it and its story.. Blizzard knows it. that's why they are introducing followers. that's why there are so... many... difficulty settings for much of the content. that's why drops in lfr are marginal, enough to make you feel like you accomplished something, but not enough to feel forced into it if you want to progress your gear or whatever. lfr exists to allow acess to content for people who otherwise would have never been able to participate in it.

  10. #650
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    nobody asks players to complete Mythic first in order to unlock LFR.
    No, but they are asked to complete a minimal amount of the content of the game before they can access it, just like pathfinder does for flying. There is a minimum gear requirement to be able to enter LFR. The only difference is that there is an achievement to track the flying unlock. By removing the reputation/renown requirement (which I agree really needed to go), Blizzard has made the effort required to complete pathfinder and unlock flying roughly similar to the effort required to be eligible to run LFR.

    Your example would be closer to relevant (but still absurdly inaccurate) if Blizzard were to require people to beat the gold timer on all dragonriding races as part of pathfinder.
    I found I enjoyed the game significantly more when I stopped paying attention to all the people on the forums telling me how much I am supposed to hate it
    All this complaining is simply further proof that Blizzard could send each and every player a real-life wish-granting flying unicorn carrying a solid gold plate of chocolate chip cookies wrapped in hundred dollar bills, and someone would whine that Blizzard sucks for not letting them choose oatmeal raisin.

  11. #651
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    If there's anyone "not understanding" anything, it's you.


    Literally that does not happen. The existence of LFR literally does not bother them and players who don't use LFR couldn't care less about its existence.


    People generally don't use LFR as a "gearing stepping stone" if they have the schedule open for normal raiding.


    Flying is not "accessibility" feature. It's a quality of life feature. LFR is not a quality of life feature.


    Because LFR is a difficulty mode aimed to those who don't have the schedule to regularly do organized raiding. It has nothing to do with actual difficulty. For the love of fuck, please stop saying nonsense.
    you must have missed multiple threads of poeple bitching about lfr existance on these very forums, not to mention official forums

    these were just top 3 results from a uick google search I didn't even bother scrolling or messing with search terms.

    https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...flight/1359029
    https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...s_way_overdue/
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...r-gone-forever - this last one had majority defending lfr, but you know... its not like this literally doesn't happen....

    yes it IS accessibility feature as is classic flight. it can be both quality of life feature AND accessibility. and no, LFR doesn't just exist for people who don't have the schedule to organize, that's what custom group finder and pugging communities are for.

  12. #652
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    jesus, H christ, do you have any life outside of playing wow? there is grind and there is whatever the fuck THIS is.
    ????
    You call that a grind?
    What the fuck are you talking about lolol what?
    I played the patch for a couple hours on launch, and then gotten on an played like 20 mins each day.
    holy fuck lolololool
    you know there is people who actually grinded who are already renown 20 right?
    people like actually playing the game to you is BEYOND GRINDING then you really do like log on, do 1 quest then go "alright I'm done playing for the day, that was a LOT"
    like literally the morning after the patch (as i went to bed before the servers came up cause i gave up after the 2nd delay) i spent 2 hours on wow, i know cause I used 1 darkmoon faire buff, and 1 hat.
    Then I was done, after that I literally just came back to the zone each day to do the world quests, and thats it.

    if you really think that is "there is grinding ,then there is THIS all you do is wow, you have no life"
    then you have a fucked up vision of reality, cause there is times I can actually go full wow, cause it is part of my job, but literally anyone who actually plays the game here can tell you I am literally the average person, there is TONS of people who got 10 day 1.



    if you do the main campaign and side quests you get to renown 8.
    you think I "no life grinded it for days and days" to get to renown 10?
    if you really think that you seriously have a bizzare look on the world, cause no, I literally just did all the questing content, and a little bit of extra grinding after, meanwhile some people I know who just grinded for a day are 14, and some got 20 a few days ago.

    https://x.com/nnoggie/status/1723826393685901393?s=20
    Like literally here is echo getting their entire raid group renown 20 within 24 hours.
    And you say me almost a whole week in at renown 10 "went beyond grinding, to no lifing"
    You seriously have a massive fucking jaded reality, where you think literally just playing a game for 2 hours is "elitist hardcoring"
    Holy moly, you say you are getting up in years so your reflexes are shot, but mate this is just basic understanding.
    Last edited by FelPlague; 2023-11-13 at 05:49 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    My ideas are objectively good

  13. #653
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    I hate to agree with OP's reply to you, but he is correct. difficulty is relative.
    This is not about difficulty. This is about quality of life features. And flying is a quality of life feature, not a "difficult slider" feature.

    do you die when leveling? cause I do. I'm getting older, my reactions - slower. game feels harder then it did back when I first started playing and while I do think part of it is due to redesign, big part of it is just me.
    You die due to slower reactions, so I'm assuming you mean during combat? If so, then flying or no flying, that won't change a thing, really.

    lfr exists to allow acess to content for people who otherwise would have never been able to participate in it.
    Which is still a power progression thing, because you get stronger gear by doing LFR. Not a quality of life feature.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  14. #654
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Literally that does not happen. The existence of LFR literally does not bother them and players who don't use LFR couldn't care less about its existence.
    lol. "Real" raiders have been bitching about the existence of LFR and begging for it's removal since the day it launched. This very forum has been filled with people demanding it's non-existence over the years.

    The only way you could believe what you just said was to have not interacted with WoW players, in any fashion, until just this last month. And since I don't think that's the case the only other option is to believe that you are just a flat-out liar.

  15. #655
    Crying about pathfinder is so silly imo, you get it by default if you play the game. Especially this time there is nothing out of the ordinary that you need to do for it. Iam happy we got real flying back and no longer have to use the crappy flappy dragon mini game. I also see no reason why we can have dragon 'flying' at the start of an expansion but not actual flying.

  16. #656
    Quote Originally Posted by Caradras View Post
    I also see no reason why we can have dragon 'flying' at the start of an expansion but not actual flying.
    They explained it in a recent dev interview. They pretty much stated what I've thought about Dragonriding all along. Regular flying provides too much of an advantage in the game. In the next expansion, we'll get Dynamic Flying at the start again, while regular riding will come later with a new Pathfinder requirement.

    Yet, if you read the forums, you'd think regular flying was worthless, and if you were having trouble with Dragonriding, then it must mean you didn't get all the glyphs.

    No...for a lot of things, Dragonriding is actually shit compared to old flying. Anyone who thinks old flying is useless, is doing nothing but showing their incompetence at the game.

  17. #657
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ablib View Post
    They explained it in a recent dev interview. They pretty much stated what I've thought about Dragonriding all along. Regular flying provides too much of an advantage in the game. In the next expansion, we'll get Dynamic Flying at the start again, while regular riding will come later with a new Pathfinder requirement.
    Literally none of that is what they said.
    They said it takes you out of the world, because when you finish a quest, you don't then "travel" to the next one, you hold spacebar, look directly at where you need to go, then press numlock and afk till ya get there.
    It takes you out of the world, removes your engagement with it.

    Also pathfinder will literally come when you hit max level, and explore all the areas, and do the main story.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    My ideas are objectively good

  18. #658
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    I'm still really curious why OP plays WoW. It feels like they don't really enjoy the concept of an MMO, yet force themselves to play and then complain about it.

  19. #659
    dragonflying does just the same thing, press nr 2 and up you go. You cant go afk with static flying because you would just keep flying until you fall of the map, however it gives time to read quests, check where to go, sort bags, chat with ppl etc. Blizz shoehorns in their flappy dragon because otherwise ppl keep using static flying and any flying beats ground mounts

  20. #660
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    Literally none of that is what they said.
    They said it takes you out of the world, because when you finish a quest, you don't then "travel" to the next one, you hold spacebar, look directly at where you need to go, then press numlock and afk till ya get there.
    It takes you out of the world, removes your engagement with it.

    Also pathfinder will literally come when you hit max level, and explore all the areas, and do the main story.
    https://youtu.be/f8zWAPDUTkc?t=361

    I was referencing this interview. Morgan explained how old flying gives an advantage, and the way he explained when we'll get static flying "very early on in the War Within", is the same answer they've given since Legion. It means, at a minimum, the first major patch, with a Pathfinder requirement.

    But all of this is common sense really, if you're familiar with the game and it's history, and understand how both flight forms work. You must like to argue?
    Last edited by ablib; 2023-11-13 at 11:24 PM.

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