Pathfinder is unacceptable

[ablib]

Literally none of that is what they said.
They said it takes you out of the world, because when you finish a quest, you don't then "travel" to the next one, you hold spacebar, look directly at where you need to go, then press numlock and afk till ya get there.
It takes you out of the world, removes your engagement with it.

Also pathfinder will literally come when you hit max level, and explore all the areas, and do the main story.

https://youtu.be/f8zWAPDUTkc?t=361

I was referencing this interview. Morgan explained how old flying gives an advantage, and the way he explained when we'll get static flying "very early on in the War Within", is the same answer they've given since Legion. It means, at a minimum, the first major patch, with a Pathfinder requirement.

But all of this is common sense really, if you're familiar with the game and it's history, and understand how both flight forms work. You must like to argue?

[FelPlague]

https://youtu.be/f8zWAPDUTkc?t=361

I was referencing this interview. Morgan explained how old flying gives an advantage, and the way he explained when we'll get static flying "very early on in the War Within", is the same answer they've given since Legion. It means, at a minimum, the first major patch, with a Pathfinder requirement.

But all of this is common sense really, if you're familiar with the game and it's history, and understand how both flight forms work. You must like to argue?

You literally link to the spot where he does NOT say "it gives an advantage" he says "it removes you from the world" because dragon riding is engaging, you interact with the world around you, where with normal flying you just as he says, fly up, look to your quest marker, then press numlock.

and AGAIN they literally said pathfinder will be available from day 1, just earned after reaching max level.
Why do you go to my post and say "nuh uh, here" and then literally give me back exactly what I said?

[Schizoide]

If you watch it closely, their issues with static flight are more in the precision it grants, where you can fly close to your destination then drop down to assassinate only the mobs you need, or click the doodad on the ground without being forced to fight adds, or whatever. That is all totally 100% true, and a lot of the reason why I love it so much, it lets me avoid the time-wasting bullshit and focus on efficiency.

Many if not most MMO players feel the same way, but developers hate our relentless focus on efficiency because their goal is to extend time playing the game, to make content last longer. The game is monetized via subscription and that must inform incentive structures and resulting gameplay at every level.

If WoW was a buy2play or free2play game with non-P2W gentle microtransactions like Guild Wars 2, Path of Exile, or Elder Scrolls Online, those incentives would be very different. Problem is I listed some unicorns there, the vast majority of B2P and F2P games are aggressively monetized in a viciously predatory way, and that list includes several other titles from Blizzard. So maybe don't push for that too hard. Better not to crack open that door, you know they'd fuck it up.

[WowIsDead64]

If you watch it closely, their issues with static flight are more in the precision it grants, where you can fly close to your destination then drop down to assassinate only the mobs you need, or click the doodad on the ground without being forced to fight adds, or whatever. That is all totally 100% true, and a lot of the reason why I love it so much, it lets me avoid the time-wasting bullshit and focus on efficiency.

Many if not most MMO players feel the same way, but developers hate our relentless focus on efficiency because their goal is to extend time playing the game, to make content last longer. The game is monetized via subscription and that must inform incentive structures and resulting gameplay at every level.

If WoW was a buy2play or free2play game with non-P2W gentle microtransactions like Guild Wars 2, Path of Exile, or Elder Scrolls Online, those incentives would be very different. Problem is I listed some unicorns there, the vast majority of B2P and F2P games are aggressively monetized in a viciously predatory way, and that list includes several other titles from Blizzard. So maybe don't push for that too hard. Better not to crack open that door, you know they'd fuck it up.

This argument is voided by Dragonriding almost entirely. Because it: 1) Is faster and therefore "Traveling from point A to point B is content" argument is voided 2) Still allows landing at mob's head and avoiding all adds. What it doesn't allow - is jumping from one mob/item to another, because vigor restoration requires either high speed or standing still for long time. But such tactic isn't actually very effective. Do you think, that there is big difference between riding 10 meters at 100% and riding them at 310%? It's just split second.

But players just have to use it, when game design is broken. For example when Blizzard put elites everywhere and killing them is totally ineffective, as they don't even give you better rewards to compensate wasted time. They exist only for grouped players' ego purposes. For their "See? We can kill harder mobs! Be be be!". Or some sort of broken terrain, that is artificial maze. Or when devs put too few needed mobs among not needed ones. Or when competition is too high, so mob is usually already dead by the time, you can get to it, so you have to constantly scan location. Or when content is way too overtuned, so mobs respawn quicker, than player kills them, so he becomes overwhelmed, if he tries to kill them all "properly".

If devs wouldn't exploit broken terrible game designs - we wouldn't need flying. Unfortunately this game doesn't have some sort of quality standards. I.e. there are no rules, that would tell devs, that they should never do X or Y. And they do it here and there. Especially in recent xpacks, where they seem to completely lack QA. I.e. real humans, who would play their own game and see, that it's design isn't smooth and therefore should be fixed. I would even tell you, that they say, that they don't want to limit their game design choices. I.e. in most cases they do it intentionally, lol. So, yeah, we still need normal flying. Normal flying is something on a par with bad luck protection. Something, that guarantees, that no bad game designs would spoil game for us.

Another thing - is their obsession about so called "paying attention". I.e. they know, that players can avoid flying clutter anyway. Even if I aggro some S**tptora in ZM - it takes just few seconds to drop this combat, so it's more annoying, than "challenging". I can't drop this combat and have to kill them, only if they're sitting right near chests or other quest items. But they still do it. Because they want me to "pay attention". I.e. to turn flying into some sort of 3D maze. Thinking, that it makes game more "engaging" - is the biggest misconception. It only makes game more annoying and makes me hate this location.

Overall MMO genre - is root of all problems. Devs just want to leave some room for making content way too overtuned or at least too uncomfortable to be soloable in order to "encourage" grouping. "Go do Mythic or buy boost!" should always be ultimate solution of all problems.

But as always. All of this c**p would make sense, if all of this would be some sort of anti-bot/anti-multiboxer feature. Why should I suffer due to other players? Ban them. Just f**king BAN THEM. So called "precaution" design - is terrible thing. Police should do it's job and catch criminals - not jail all people to prison as precaution. Right? Because it kills whole purpose of having police. Only small % of people suffers from criminals, but 100% would suffer from being imprisoned. What devs try to tell us via removal of flying - is that we have to somehow learn to love being imprisoned.

Yeah, we already hear things like this about bots/multiboxers abusing normal flying.

[Luthorite]

If you watch it closely, their issues with static flight are more in the precision it grants, where you can fly close to your destination then drop down to assassinate only the mobs you need, or click the doodad on the ground without being forced to fight adds, or whatever. That is all totally 100% true, and a lot of the reason why I love it so much, it lets me avoid the time-wasting bullshit and focus on efficiency.

Many if not most MMO players feel the same way, but developers hate our relentless focus on efficiency because their goal is to extend time playing the game, to make content last longer. The game is monetized via subscription and that must inform incentive structures and resulting gameplay at every level.

If WoW was a buy2play or free2play game with non-P2W gentle microtransactions like Guild Wars 2, Path of Exile, or Elder Scrolls Online, those incentives would be very different. Problem is I listed some unicorns there, the vast majority of B2P and F2P games are aggressively monetized in a viciously predatory way, and that list includes several other titles from Blizzard. So maybe don't push for that too hard. Better not to crack open that door, you know they'd fuck it up.

I mean the other sub based MMO has regular flying and that seems to be doing fine.

[Schizoide]

No, dynamic flight absolutely lacks that precision. It's too fast, you can't hover to scout your desired target, and there's a wider turning radius too. Unless you already know your destination you're almost always a bit off and thus have to clear adds. It is indeed faster travel and cuts travel time, but that doesn't matter because zones designed for dynamic flight are much larger to compensate. Try traveling across Dragon Isles with static flight, it's ridiculous.

(Don't get me wrong, I love the much larger spread-out zones. Prior expansions were crowded to a silly degree. But they were built that way for a reason.)

As for this sort of content stretching being inherent to all MMOs, I strongly disagree. It's a consequence of the subscription model. If the game isn't monetized via recurring subscriptions, the devs wouldn't care if you played every patch for 2 weeks then quit until the next one, just like Diablo 4 seasons.

Re FF14, I haven't played enough to speak about it at this level. Not that I didn't try; I started playing it three separate times and it just never grabbed me. I do have a ton of time in GW2, ESO, and a bunch of others so I can speak about them without (I hope) sounding like a fool.

[WowIsDead64]

No, dynamic flight absolutely lacks that precision. It's too fast, you can't hover to scout your desired target, and there's a wider turning radius too. Unless you already know your destination you're almost always a bit off and thus have to clear adds. It is indeed faster travel and cuts travel time, but that doesn't matter because zones designed for dynamic flight are much larger to compensate. Try traveling across Dragon Isles with static flight, it's ridiculous.

(Don't get me wrong, I love the much larger spread-out zones. Prior expansions were crowded to a silly degree. But they were built that way for a reason.)

As for this sort of content stretching being inherent to all MMOs, I strongly disagree. It's a consequence of the subscription model. If the game isn't monetized via recurring subscriptions, the devs wouldn't care if you played every patch for 2 weeks then quit until the next one, just like Diablo 4 seasons.

Re FF14, I haven't played enough to speak about it at this level. Not that I didn't try; I started playing it three separate times and it just never grabbed me. I do have a ton of time in GW2, ESO, and a bunch of others so I can speak about them without (I hope) sounding like a fool.

Dunno. I'm not pilot. But I have some gliding experience. Common way to make more precise landing - to slow down via gaining altitude and then circle to aim at your target better. So called spiral descend. Remember? Pilots do it all the time and their lives depend on doing it precisely.