What Playable Race do you want next?

[Triceron]

You know who else was an april fool's joke? The Pandaren.

Yes. So do you think Blizzard is lazy for not adding Ogres to the gane yet?

Did it pay off? Certainly did:

There's no direct connection there. They could make new NPCs regardless, keep in mind they already created the Kul Tirans as NPCs a WHOLE YEAR before they decided to make them playable later. We literally saw them in the BFA reveal trailers, just not as a playable race.

That means whether they make KT playable or not, Moknathal and Maldraxxians would have been able to use the KT NPC skeleton. Just like they have been using snd reusing the Thin Man KT skeleton for other Npcs since BFA. No one can play as a Thin Man, while we have plenty of new NPCs reusing their same skeleton.

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Yea, let's look at Disney's remakes or Netflix's adaptations and the controvesies they cause.

Kinda funny you say this

It's all case by case scenario though. Some adaptations are good, some terrible. They're not just all bad.

Look at One Piece. Everyone thought it would be terrible before it came out, right now it'a universally praised by all the fans and newcomers, being too watched Netflix show in over 90 countries, beating Stranger Things viewership records, and praised as the best Live Action Adaptation of an Anime series.

It all depends on how these shows are handled.

One Piece has plenty of diversity. But it isn't 'Woke' at all, because they don't politicize or preach it, it plays off as a natural part of the world.

[Shadowferal]

One Piece has plenty of diversity. But it isn't 'Woke' at all, because they don't politicize or preach it, it plays off as a natural part of the world.

Same with the earlier "Buffy the Vampire Slayer." Well-written show that wasn't hamfisted with progressive issues. It was natural. And in the movie "V for Vendetta" who didn't shed a tear at that note written by the woman who was targeted for simply being gay? Sorrowfully written, but in the end it was a love-letter to the world.

[username993720]

I love it. Still not denying that you're just whining because you can't be a hate-filled racist, misogynistic, fascist bigot in any way whatsoever. Just "I saw a gay person in my video game and a black person in my movie, mommy, make it go away!!!!!!!"

You have low standards then. All they've become are childish, censured versions of the real thing. You probably didn't like Garrosh calling Sylvanas a bitch in Cataclysm either.

No, not that! Anything but that! How did you discover my kryptonite? Some random dipshit Youtube video I'm not even going to bother to click because it's a fucking random dipshit Youtube video! Nooooooooooo! I'm melting, melting!!!!

And i'm the immature one...
Let me guess, you have bright colored hair?

Yes. So do you think Blizzard is lazy for not adding Ogres to the gane yet?

It took them 8 years to add the Pandaren.

There's no direct connection there. They could make new NPCs regardless, keep in mind they already created the Kul Tirans as NPCs a WHOLE YEAR before they decided to make them playable later. We literally saw them in the BFA reveal trailers, just not as a playable race.

That means whether they make KT playable or not, Moknathal and Maldraxxians would have been able to use the KT NPC skeleton. Just like they have been using snd reusing the Thin Man KT skeleton for other Npcs since BFA. No one can play as a Thin Man, while we have plenty of new NPCs reusing their same skeleton.

Thin Kul Tiran is not a new skeleton. It uses the Female Forsaken animation rig.

Kinda funny you say this

It's all case by case scenario though. Some adaptations are good, some terrible. They're not just all bad.

Look at One Piece. Everyone thought it would be terrible before it came out, right now it'a universally praised by all the fans and newcomers, being too watched Netflix show in over 90 countries, beating Stranger Things viewership records, and praised as the best Live Action Adaptation of an Anime series.

It all depends on how these shows are handled.

One Piece has plenty of diversity. But it isn't 'Woke' at all, because they don't politicize or preach it, it plays off as a natural part of the world.

Can't say much about it as it's rather new and i haven't watched the original anime.

[Triceron]

It took them 8 years to add the Pandaren.

Could have been earlier. We've literally seen the TBC Pandaren model



They would have been in TBC if not for China approval being prolonged.

Thin Kul Tiran is not a new skeleton. It uses the Female Forsaken animation rig.

Neither is the Kul Tiran rig, which was a modified Pandaren that was eventually changed up completely to a custom Kul Tiran when they decided to make them a Player Character.

You need to recognize that sharing animations or skeletons is not the problem. It never is, never was.

The way modern WoW adapts skeletons is very streamlined; practically all Humanoids share the same Skeleton in terms of how the bones are organized. And as long as bone names are consistent, you can transfer animations. So you remember my example of Hanzo from Heroes of the Storm? If I renamed the bones to match Reforged or WoW, I can transfer all animations so that Hanzo can use a Grunt's animations, or use Deathwing's animations, or use D3 Monk's animations. Of course it will look fucked up in some cases, but as long as bones are named correctly the animations can be transferred. That's why most of my work as a modder is literally cleaning up transferred animations, not actually doing custom animations or making models. A majority of my time spent is making sure custom models or transferred models don't have clipping. It is a very tedious part of the process, and luckily most of the time I only have to work in one set of gear to represent a new NPC, not have the unit customizable for THOUSANDS of gear options.

You can even see I replaced Hanzo's legs with Archimonde. The knee positions are not the same, but I can modify the skeleton enough so that the run cycles can still work and not look completely gimped. It's not a 100% foolproof transfer, and luckily I only need to make sure Run and Stand works, since those are the main animations that Reforged uses. I don't have to worry about fixing the legs for all the other HOTS animations, like his Jump, his Mount animations, his active Dodge ability, etc. So yes, skeletons can be modified to fit new race types. It does not mean everything else carries over though; you would need to ensure all gear still fits the character, and all gear combinations work with the new animations. Like even changing Hanzo's bow, I need to make sure the new bow is size-appropriate and make sure it does not clip with his new Archimonde style Legs.

Can't say much about it as it's rather new and i haven't watched the original anime.

I'm a diehard fan of the manga, and even with my overwhelming expectations, this was more 'Lord of the Rings' than 'Rings of Power'. Despite all the changes done to the story, to the characters and overall world, it manages to capture the spirit of One Piece in their own way. It's well worth a watch, even if you don't know anything about the series.

[Rocksteady 87]

You have low standards then. All they've become are childish, censured versions of the real thing. You probably didn't like Garrosh calling Sylvanas a bitch in Cataclysm either.

It would be hysterical if not sad at how this guy, who could easily just lie about it, can't even say "I'm not a hate-filled racist, misogynistic, fascist bigot" after five or six posts of having the opportunity. The best he can do is keep trying to pivot to random BS like the above. Kudos for being true to oneself I guess?

Kinda funny you say this [...] One Piece has plenty of diversity. But it isn't 'Woke' at all, because they don't politicize or preach it, it plays off as a natural part of the world.

Oh please, the vast, vast majority of the drek these people scream about don't "politicize or preach" anything either. Except, you know, by virtue of them screeching like malnourished harpies. The Little Mermaid waves hello.

Sure there's a tiny handful of examples where they do, like Doctor Who or Star Trek: Discovery. But in at least one of those cases, they've been doing that since day fucking one back in the 1960s. And much of the time, even people who are fine with the stuff are just as annoyed as everyone else when they start the preaching because, believe it or not, most people fucking hate being preached at regardless of the subject matter.

Most of the time, the caterwauling is about "woke" shit just existing. For example, a relatively recent series included a pirate that was, gasp, non-binary! Nevermind that the equally vast majority of people who saw the episode had no idea until after the fact when the "anti-woke" dipshits started losing their shit over it. And even then they had to be told who it was in the first place. You know, like a good many of the people reading this paragraph who'll be scratching their head rying to figure out what I'm even talking about.

Just like they probably will when they find out about a similar actor in One Piece if it ever even fucking dawns on them.

[Triceron]

Oh please, the vast, vast majority of the drek these people scream about don't "politicize or preach" anything either.

I mean if you're gonna use a broad generalization like 'Vast vast majority' then yeah, you're right. But if someone talks about current day Disney and Netflix, then we can also look at what's out there and see there ARE shows that do have obvious political agenda inserted in.

She-Hulk's political statements seemed pretty obvious and heavy-handed, for example. Willow, IMO, had the same thing, even though it really didn't need to address it at all. Like, it didn't bother me at all that it had it, but it didn't feel like it was a part of the story or setting at all. It wasn't really natural to the story they were trying to tell, it was just all inserted as subplots for the sake of it. And there's nothing wrong with making a point that it's there, and that the show wanted to make a big deal out of it.

You have a character who has zero interest in romance who is escaping a forced into a political arranged marriage by her parents who suddenly is given a romantic subplot with another female friend, out of the blue. Like, it didn't even make sense because this character had zero interest in romance at all, and it didn't really sell the budding romance at all. Perhaps it was the pacing of the story, but it all just seemed to happen out of the blue, and timed perfectly near the end of the series where it gives more dramatic stakes to the characters relationships (even though they already had a solid childhood bond).

And I'm happy a series like One Piece won't be doing that, and the creator of the Manga even made it a stipulation that there would be no romance between Crewmates, as intended in the original story.

Most of the time, the caterwauling is about "woke" shit just existing.

I have no problems if it's well integrated into the story. Most of the time when this happens in a modern series, it's not. Most of the time, it's there to check boxes and fulfill some network Executive's politically motivated status quo. And it's not just in terms of 'woke', but adding romantic subplots/connections in series where it doesn't fit in general. Of course, I wouldn't label it all as Woke; that would be specific to the corporate meddling that is specifically politically motivated. I'd say the Star Wars sequels had plenty of this meddling as well.

[username993720]

Could have been earlier. We've literally seen the TBC Pandaren model



They would have been in TBC if not for China approval being prolonged.

True.
Well, they were considered for Cataclysm. And now, with ths Kul Tiran skeleton, especially when applied to Rexxar, gives us a better chance at playable Ogres than ever before.

Neither is the Kul Tiran rig, which was a modified Pandaren that was eventually changed up completely to a custom Kul Tiran when they decided to make them a Player Character.

Got a source for that?

You need to recognize that sharing animations or skeletons is not the problem. It never is, never was.

The way modern WoW adapts skeletons is very streamlined; practically all Humanoids share the same Skeleton in terms of how the bones are organized. And as long as bone names are consistent, you can transfer animations. So you remember my example of Hanzo from Heroes of the Storm? If I renamed the bones to match Reforged or WoW, I can transfer all animations so that Hanzo can use a Grunt's animations, or use Deathwing's animations, or use D3 Monk's animations. Of course it will look fucked up in some cases, but as long as bones are named correctly the animations can be transferred. That's why most of my work as a modder is literally cleaning up transferred animations, not actually doing custom animations or making models. A majority of my time spent is making sure custom models or transferred models don't have clipping. It is a very tedious part of the process, and luckily most of the time I only have to work in one set of gear to represent a new NPC, not have the unit customizable for THOUSANDS of gear options.

You can even see I replaced Hanzo's legs with Archimonde. The knee positions are not the same, but I can modify the skeleton enough so that the run cycles can still work and not look completely gimped. It's not a 100% foolproof transfer, and luckily I only need to make sure Run and Stand works, since those are the main animations that Reforged uses. I don't have to worry about fixing the legs for all the other HOTS animations, like his Jump, his Mount animations, his active Dodge ability, etc. So yes, skeletons can be modified to fit new race types. It does not mean everything else carries over though; you would need to ensure all gear still fits the character, and all gear combinations work with the new animations. Like even changing Hanzo's bow, I need to make sure the new bow is size-appropriate and make sure it does not clip with his new Archimonde style Legs.

As with every new race that isn't an allied race. And now that we've got Kul Tirans, they wouldn't have to modify every existing gear peace.

I'm a diehard fan of the manga, and even with my overwhelming expectations, this was more 'Lord of the Rings' than 'Rings of Power'. Despite all the changes done to the story, to the characters and overall world, it manages to capture the spirit of One Piece in their own way. It's well worth a watch, even if you don't know anything about the series.

Tried to watch the first episode. Was too tired...

It would be hysterical if not sad at how this guy, who could easily just lie about it, can't even say "I'm not a hate-filled racist, misogynistic, fascist bigot" after five or six posts of having the opportunity. The best he can do is keep trying to pivot to random BS like the above. Kudos for being true to oneself I guess?

I like that you need to degrade someone using demeaning words, but i'm the bad guy here

[Polyxo]

How about 3 small round furry things stacked on top of each other as one character?

[Rocksteady 87]

True.
I like that you need to degrade someone using demeaning words, but i'm the bad guy here

Hey, look, even after being told he could just lie about, he's still unable to do so at, what, the seventh opportunity now. Oh, and now he's trying to pivot by playing the victim card on top of it. "Why are you guys picking on me for wanting to spread my disgusting hatred and bigotry?! Whaaaaaaa! Sweet, little, blue-eyed fair-skinned baby Jesus filled with the same hatred as me, make them stop! I'm the victim here! I'm the only one allowed to do and say what I want, not anyone else! Crai crai crai!!!"

[Terremer]

Give me the sethrak!



And the elite naga !




Or this one !

[Triceron]

As with every new race that isn't an allied race. And now that we've got Kul Tirans, they wouldn't have to modify every existing gear peace.

Unless Kul Tirans suddenly sprout 2 heads, they would still need to for a 2H Ogre.

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Give me the sethrak!

I always thought it was a really cool concept. A shame they didn't make em playable, I thought they had a lot of neat potential. Moreso than Vulpera.

[Terremer]

I always thought it was a really cool concept. A shame they didn't make em playable, I thought they had a lot of neat potential. Moreso than Vulpera.

Yes it's a shame! Such a waste

[Well Done Steak]

Most likely races would be vrykyl, ogres, and ethereal than any other races. Also naga if they can make it work

[username993720]

Hey, look, even after being told he could just lie about, he's still unable to do so at, what, the seventh opportunity now. Oh, and now he's trying to pivot by playing the victim card on top of it. "Why are you guys picking on me for wanting to spread my disgusting hatred and bigotry?! Whaaaaaaa! Sweet, little, blue-eyed fair-skinned baby Jesus filled with the same hatred as me, make them stop! I'm the victim here! I'm the only one allowed to do and say what I want, not anyone else! Crai crai crai!!!"

What are you refering to me in third person?

Unless Kul Tirans suddenly sprout 2 heads, they would still need to for a 2H Ogre.

They're covered on the one headed Ogre front, so it wouldn't be 4 models worth of work like you say it is.

[Triceron]

They're covered on the one headed Ogre front, so it wouldn't be 4 models worth of work like you say it is.

That's if the Ogre itself doesn't require modifications and used the Kul Tiran model 1:1.

And it still means you're expecting at least 3 new models worth of work, which is still a BIG ask.

I honestly doubt Blizzard would do 4 body types for a single race, so unfortunately you don't have any room to request 2H Ogres, unless you expect them to be their own race (which is even less likely to be made)

[username993720]

That's if the Ogre itself doesn't require modifications and used the Kul Tiran model 1:1.

Apart from the dance? I don't see many changes.

And it still means you're expecting at least 3 new models worth of work, which is still a BIG ask.

What? It's literally just the artists' job of putting skin on these models, like they did with Rexxar. The only thing really left is figuring out 2 headed ogres, which could be a slightly modified Kul Tiran skeleton and not a whole new one.

I honestly doubt Blizzard would do 4 body types for a single race, so unfortunately you don't have any room to request 2H Ogres, unless you expect them to be their own race (which is even less likely to be made)

I didn't request them. I'm fine with one headed ones. But, if they really want, they could add them.

[Triceron]

Apart from the dance? I don't see many changes.

That's because you don't take into account that Ogres have wider shoulders than Kul Tirans and have shorter legs. If they used KT proportions without modifications, it would look like a long-legged Ogre. Maldraxxians and Moknathal work with the rigs because they're shown to be lankier than Ogres, and the fat version of Maldraxxians aren't using the KT skeleton.





You can see the proportions of that Kul Tiran Ogre are totally off compared to the NPC. Ogres have a lower center of gravity and larger frame than the Kul Tiran.

What? It's literally just the artists' job of putting skin on these models, like they did with Rexxar. The only thing really left is figuring out 2 headed ogres, which could be a slightly modified Kul Tiran skeleton and not a whole new one.

Which again, means you have little understanding of proportions and anatomy. I mean, you even think 'more space between 2 heads' is somehow a solution, when it's way more complicated than that. If you space out the heads, you also space out the shoulders, and everything gets shifted more. If you understood anatomy, you'd scale the helmets to the heads, not the body to fit the helmets.

I didn't request them. I'm fine with one headed ones. But, if they really want, they could add them.

It's really easy to say they can just add things if they want to without considering the costs. You could say they could add 500 new races in the next expansion too if they wanted to. Right?

[username993720]

That's because you don't take into account that Ogres have wider shoulders than Kul Tirans and have shorter legs. If they used KT proportions without modifications, it would look like a long-legged Ogre. Maldraxxians and Moknathal work with the rigs because they're shown to be lankier than Ogres, and the fat version of Maldraxxians aren't using the KT skeleton.





You can see the proportions of that Kul Tiran Ogre are totally off compared to the NPC. Ogres have a lower center of gravity and larger frame than the Kul Tiran.

That's a wrong way to look at it, simply putting an Ogre head on a Kul Tiran. It doesn't work that way. They can scale up the proportions as well as down. Does Rexxar not look Ogreish?

Even though Kul Tirans have a belly, they managed to flatten it on Rexxar. His proportions match despite your ridculous example of an Ogre using a Kul Tiran skeleton.

As for the Maldraxxian Gladiators, there are 2 kinds:
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Mal...ayer_Araya.jpg
One that uses the Kul Tiran skeleton.

And one that uses an Ogre skeleton with a different stance. Now, ask yourself, why would they modify the Ogre skeleton's stance? Perhaps this is another candidate for the playable Ogre skeleton.

Which again, means you have little understanding of proportions and anatomy. I mean, you even think 'more space between 2 heads' is somehow a solution, when it's way more complicated than that. If you space out the heads, you also space out the shoulders, and everything gets shifted more. If you understood anatomy, you'd scale the helmets to the heads, not the body to fit the helmets.

They already stuck a head on a standard Ogre model. The only thing changed by widening the shoulders is fitting chest gear.

It's really easy to say they can just add things if they want to without considering the costs. You could say they could add 500 new races in the next expansion too if they wanted to. Right?

It's one race. And they did it how many times? 7 times already.

[Triceron]

That's a wrong way to look at it, simply putting an Ogre head on a Kul Tiran. It doesn't work that way. They can scale up the proportions as well as down. Does Rexxar not look Ogreish?

No, he doesn't at all. His proportions are of a buffed up Orc, not a large framed Ogre.

As for the Maldraxxian Gladiators, there are 2 kinds:
One that uses the Kul Tiran skeleton.
And one that uses an Ogre skeleton with a different stance. Now, ask yourself, why would they modify the Ogre skeleton's stance? Perhaps this is another candidate for the playable Ogre skeleton.

Er, no. It's because it's an NPC, and NPCs can use modified versions of other NPC rigs. They aren't built to support gear so it doesn't matter if they are built based off a Player Character or another NPC.

Just like there are new NPCs based on the Vrykul rigs. Vrykul don't support all types of gear either, and neither do any NPCs based on their skeletal rig. So it doesn't really matter, this has nothing to do adapting a skeleton to a Player Character

Keep in mind, Dracthyr are also loosely based on the Demon Hunter Demon Form skeletal rig with different wing positions and modified animations. And you can see, neither of them support gear types. The Dracthyr model is treated like an NPC, who only has specific gear modelled for it. All gear support is given to the Visage Forms to save on time and resources; something I've been saying from the beginning and you still seem to want pretend doesn't matter.

It's one race. And they did it how many times? 7 times already.

As an NPC that doesn't support Player gear, yes. Unless you think a player character should be designed like Dracthyr and have very few customization options? Sounds lazy to me.

[tromage2]

They can use the Rexxar modelframe for playable Ogres.
If you see WC3 reforged models they look pretty close mostly the oversized belts make them look fat but without the belt they look pretty fit.